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Dublin Core
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Title
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UGA Black Alumni Oral History Project
Subject
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University and colleges--University of Georgia
African Americans--History
Description
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The UGA Black Alumni <span>Oral History Project is an initiative of the University Archives unit of the Hargrett Rare Book & Manuscript Library at the University of Georgia that began in 2019. The goal of the project is to document the stories of Black students who attended UGA in the 1960s and 70s through interviews and preserve these stories for future generations.<br /><br />The UGA Black Alumni Oral History Project interviews document the experiences of Black students who attended the University of Georgia in the years following the University's 1961 desegregation. Some of the topics alumni discuss include their reasons for enrolling at UGA, their social lives, their academic goals, their experiences with racism on and off campus, and how their time at UGA has shaped their lives.<br /><br />All interviews in this collection have been indexed in OHMS.</span>
Creator
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University of Georgia Libraries
Publisher
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University of Georgia Archives
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2019-2020
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
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UA20-002
Coverage
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Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Ken Dious, March 11, 2020 har-ua20-002_0004 85 minutes har-ua20-002 UGA Black Alumni Oral History Project Hargrett Rare Book & ; Manuscript Library Ken Dious Venus Jackson 1:|22(8)|54(7)|67(7)|82(12)|99(14)|111(16)|126(2)|145(10)|163(5)|179(1)|192(2)|205(8)|226(9)|243(9)|259(5)|268(1)|289(16)|311(4)|326(6)|345(14)|359(13)|385(9)|411(7)|430(10)|457(8)|485(1)|505(11)|523(3)|535(9)|549(2)|576(10)|591(1)|613(9)|638(2)|657(14)|678(6)|689(10)|706(4)|718(9)|735(11)|749(10)|764(7)|786(7)|806(7)|819(7)|847(4)|856(15)|871(3)|883(8)|895(7)|911(4)|923(15)|940(3)|950(6)|963(11)|988(10)|999(9)|1013(14)|1031(3)|1053(5)|1070(3)|1081(1)|1098(16)|1117(12)|1130(8)|1158(4)|1177(14)|1198(9)|1213(8)|1238(5)|1255(13)|1271(12)|1292(12)|1305(12)|1340(1)|1351(4)|1369(4)|1389(14)|1412(12)|1429(3)|1440(6)|1454(2)|1471(14)|1482(11)|1498(3) 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_x4uz8xno& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true& ; & ; wid=1_dbto7a86" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; sandbox=" ; allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 108 Witnessing integration I think when you talk to me you’re talking to maybe a little different person because I was raised in Athens. I went to high school here. I know the complete history of the integration of the University of Georgia. I’ll tell you a little story. Mr. Dious discusses what he witnessed and experienced during the initial integration of UGA. Howard High, Turner High, Hamilton Holmes, Fort Valley State, Morris Brown, Charlayne Hunter-Gault, Donald Hollowell, NAACP Defense Fund, Varsity, Klu Klux Klan, Savannah State, scholarship 586 UGA Acceptance So I was a 19 year old kid on his own so I come over and file my application and I met the registrar named Walter [Daniel?] who is now dead and he told me that I could not get in. Mr. Dious discusses why he decided to attend the University of Georgia, what it took to be accepted and his first impression of campus. Registrar, Otis Johnson, Harold Black, Playboy 900 Demanding space on campus for black culture Well, now when I was in school we started a Black Student Union. There were no black fraternity, black sororities on campus or anything so we started the Black Student Union to advocate for the rights of black students. Mr. Dious discusses how the BSU was created and a few of the demands that were made by BSU to campus leaders in order to create a healthier environment for black students. He also discusses the experience of being the first black to attempt to play UGA football as well as what it was like to be a black UGA sports fan. Black athletes, scholarships, football, Davison, Dixie, National Anthem, Bulldog Fan, G-Day, Dooley, Dean Tate, Justice Benham 1561 Down-time We had what we called a ‘Black house’. Yeah we had a house called The Black House. Out there on Lumpkin Street. And that’s where we met. Mr. Dious discussed how he and other blacks gathered and the impression that their gatherings left on the rest of the majority white campus. He also discusses his search for the genius on campus. The Black House, Sorority and Fraternity, test, polarization, Civil Rights Movement, Otis Johnson, Dean Tate, Zell Phillips, Anderson Williams, Mary Blackwell, Joe Sell 2140 Law School experience And I was the first black student that had gone undergrad to law school. I was the first Double Dog. Black Double Dog. Mr. Dious discusses how his and his fellow black classmates’ demands for equality continued even after getting accepted and attending law school. Thespian Debate Society, Justice Benham, Confederate Flag, Football protest sign, Warren McVeigh, Houston, stadium, fight, black athletes, scholarship 2599 Events on campus Played during the time I was in school, when I was in school the games were not all played in the coliseum. They had Woodrow Hall and it was too small so you had to pull straws to get in. Dious discusses the different types of events on campus and fond memories of some of the concerts. Black performers, Ray Charles, curfew, basketball, black sections 2776 Affirmative Action What officially happened to the University of Georgia is that I was a lawyer when they filed in the University of Georgia affirmative action program. Dious discusses how the loss of Affirmative Action affected the campus and what role he played as the case found its way in court. SAT scores, Whoop Cases, Brunswick, Ga, Lucy Cobb House, Lee Parks, Hope Grant 3185 Law School admission They didn’t look down at the undergrad kids (within UGA), they would go to Morehouse, Spellman, and try to get their best students to come. Mr. Dious discusses his surprise at who UGA seemed to be in favor of attending the UGA Law School. Spellman, Tuskegee, BASA, University of Oklahoma, Mary Frances Early 3595 Search for the UGA genius You know, I didn’t think it would be any problem. Well the thing that surprised me, I thought that I got a little brainwashed saying that you can’t go to school with these students. Mr. Dious discusses his search for the elusive geniuses that he was supposed to run into while attending the University of Georgia as he went about learning and connecting with others on campus. Base programming language, trigonometry, calculus, cost-accounting, Lockheed 3955 The differences between Dious’s previous schools and UGA When I was at Savannah State the difference in the schools were when I was at Savannah state they had calculators, one calculator. We had to get in line to use it. When I came to Georgia business school, they had so many in the basement the guys used to go down there and play with them in general. Mr. Dious discusses how attending UGA enriched his life. The trials that came with attending as an African American readied him for life after college. Black professor, black student, Lassiter 4320 Dious tries out for football Matter of fact the way I ended up playing again was a friend of mine that was in school named Carter. He said he wanted to go out for the football team but he didn’t want to go out by himself. Dious discusses how and why he joins the football team. He also explains the reaction he received from coaches, players and the certain groups outside of UGA. Dooley, basketball, football, baseball, swimming, YMCA 4537 Childhood But my mother would not let me go over and socialize and work with whites. I didn’t know anything about the white community. So I never got embedded to saying ‘yes, sir’, ‘no, sir’. I didn’t know anything about that. I didn’t think about that at all. Dious gives us a peek into his childhood. He discusses where his fearless mindset comes from. Parents 4778 The effect of athletics on integration I remember when I was a kid and George Wallace ran for governor for Alabama. Actually George Wallace had decided, him and the governor in front of him, that they were going to try to get together and solve some problems that blacks were having in Alabama Dious recounts events that led to the desegregation of sports in the southeast United States. Richmond Flowers Sr., Richmond Flowers, Jr., Bear Bryant, Alabama, Tennessee, Sam the Bam Cunningham, Southern California, NCAA tournament Ken Dious discusses his early life and his years at the University of Georgia, including his social life, academics, and athletics. VJ: Venus Jackson KD: Ken Dious VJ: Alright, it is March 11, 2020. I am here at the Special Collections Building at UGA. I am Venus Jackson and I' ; m here with Attorney Ken Dious. I am so excited. And Mr. Dious, I believe you got your undergrad, masters and your law degree here at UGA, correct? KD: Alright, I didn' ; t quite finish the masters. I was ten hours short in the masters for math education and I decided to go to work with my undergrad degree because it paid more. VJ: Oh. KD: It was a business degree and it would pay me more than a school teacher degree with a masters. I went to work with Lockheed, Marietta Lockheed. They made this big airplane at this time, C5A. VJ: Okay. KD: I worked in the cost accounting department. VJ: Okay. Well, okay so you got down to 10 hours and decided that that wasn' ; t what you wanted to or that the position didn' ; t interest you, is that what-- KD: Yeah it was doubtful I would have been a good teacher -- the program was kind of geared toward going back being a teacher. They were trying to get more black males into teaching at that time. VJ: Okay. KD: And the people that were in the program with me, not just black males, it was a lot of black females too. They all went back to teaching. VJ: Okay. KD: They are all retired now, I' ; m still working. VJ: And you' ; re still working. KD: Yeah, I should have stayed back, l stayed in teaching. VJ: But it' ; s keeping you young though, right? [laughter] KD: Let' ; s say busy. VJ: Okay, so while you were here at UGA, what was your overall impression of your time here? KD: My experience? VJ: Yes. KD: I think when you talk to me you' ; re talking to maybe a little different person because I was raised in Athens. I went to high school here. I know the complete history of the integration of the University of Georgia. I' ; ll tell you a little story. You want to hear a little story? VJ: Absolutely. KD: That most people don' ; t realize. When I was 12 years old, my brother and them here had a good football team. He was five years older than I was. He was a senior and I was in the 7th grade. But we always played the schools out of Atlanta: Turner High, Howard High, all black high schools out of Atlanta. And one of the teams that we' ; d play was Turner High. Turner High is where Hamilton Holmes went to High School. So I' ; m there as a little kid listening to the radio in the 7th grade. My brother and them went up to play Turner High. Good game. And the guy they had problems stopping was a running back named Hamilton Holmes. VJ: Oh. KD: Then the first time I ever saw Hamilton Holmes-- After the football season, I was still in the 7th grade. He came down here and played basketball. Two teams played basketball against each other also. And he was a little 5' ; 9" ; point guard out there. At that time, people weren' ; t quite as tall. And he was a great athlete. So when my brother and them graduated, I decided to go out for the football team early in the 8th grade, really too early. But all those guys had a great team so they decided they were going to different schools: Fort Valley State, Morehouse, Morris Brown, wherever, whatever. And I told him, I said " ; You know I wanna keep up with this guy Hamilton Homes. I wanna how did he do?" ; So when they came home after their first year of college and I' ; m in the 8th grade now. I asked him-- you know we talking and those were my brother' ; s friend and they were only 5 years older. How did Hamilton Holmes do against you? A guy from Albany said they only put him in the game for 2 minutes. He didn' ; t play. I was shocked. But years later you-- History teaches you that Hamilton Holmes did not play because they did not want him to get hurt at Morehouse because he had already been chosen to integrate the University of Georgia. VJ: Oh. Wow. KD: Yep. It didn' ; t just haphazardly happen. He and Charlayne Hunter had already been chosen. VJ: They had already been chosen. KD: Donald Hollowell. After I became a lawyer, Donald Hollowell, the lawyer that of course [did the team] with Constance Baker Motley. I' ; m not sure people know who that is. She' ; s the first black female that got a federal judgeship but at that time she was working with what you call the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. How all this integration stuff occurred, you have to understand that the Legal Defense Fund in New York, where I eventually ended up working, separated from the regular NAACP and they called it the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. They separated in 1959 because of tax reasons. So the NAACP that most people know is headquartered in Baltimore. You buy in NAACP your membership goes to Baltimore who have maybe 1 or 2 lawyers. But all the litigation that you ever heard about or read about comes out of New York from the NAACP Legal Defense Fund. That probably have-- I don' ; t know how many lawyers now, probably 50 to 60 lawyers. And that' ; s all they have up there is lawyers. They don' ; t do the marches or anything. So Donald Hollowell and Constance Baker Motley from the defense fund filed the desegregation for Hamilton Holmes and Charlayne Hunter to come to the University of Georgia. It was the first case filed in the south. That' ; s how that occurred. So the first time I met Hamilton Holmes in 1961 or something like that, I was an athlete. As I said I was going to play basketball in high school. So when he was at the University in the afternoon just to get a break or get away for exercise. Since he had played basketball here with his high school, he would come over to our basketball practices and practice with us. He would be on the scrub team or whatever and play. Matter of fact, he taught me how to use my left hand. So I knew Hamilton Holmes ever since I was in high school. VJ: Wow. KD: So he would sometimes bring us back over to his room over in-- can' ; t remember the name of the dorm. But I was also out there when I was in high school when the mob was outside of [cinemas?] over on Baxter street where Charlayne Hunter stayed. And, you know, kid running around. We said ' ; wow they go in that dorm what are we going to do?' ; Six or seven of us supposed to be little bigtime football players. We gonna have to go in and save this girl but they never-- they all just stood across the street and a big mob showed up. Us students from the University of Georgia. These were not just people from the city. These were University of Georgia students protesting her being there. It was a good sized group of students out there. You' ; ve got to remember at that time the University of Georgia was only composed of about 18, 000 students. In my experience, how did I get to the University of Georgia? VJ: But now you were saying that you were ready to protect her from the mob if needed be. KD: Yes, we had no choice. Yes. VJ: Okay, yes. KD: Of course, I remember when Hamilton Holmes first came to town, he did not stay on campus. He stayed at the Killian residence and an adult man with a shotgun then had to stay at that residence to protect Hamilton Holmes. VJ: Wow. KD: Yes, I remember that skit. I was-- I guess I was 14-15 years old then. At that time all the stuff occurred in Athens including the marches, sit-in marches and so forth that I participated in as a kid at the Varsity. VJ: Yes. KD: I' ; m an old acquaintance with the Klan, the Ku Klux Klan, yes. They wore their robes and everything. Then we had to fight until they finally decided that they were going to integrate. The Varsity and so forth. VJ: So you were in on the sit-ins at the Varsity? KD: Yes. So how I got to the University of Georgia? I played a year of basketball at Savannah State after my first year of college there. And I wasn' ; t going to play anymore ball because I had gotten hurt a couple of times. And mom had said forget it, you aren' ; t going to play college ball or anything. But I was down there playing ball and the coach said, ' ; I like your game, you make my team and I' ; ll give you a scholarship' ; . And he did. A part-time scholarship. At that time black schools and probably even today don' ; t give outright full scholarships. And I played for a year and then my father got sick and even with the scholarship that they were giving me, I could not attend Savannah State unless I was going to borrow money. So I decided to transfer to the University of Georgia. VJ: Wow. KD: Now mind you I did not have Donald Hollowell. I did not know him except I had seen him as a kid. So I was a 19-year-old kid on his own so I come over and file my application and I met the registrar named Walter Danner, who is now dead, and he told me that I could not get in. I went back the second time because I had excellent grades and I had passed my SAT scores and my grades from high school and Savannah State so I could get in. So he and I went back and forth even though they even already had black students from Athens. Mary Blackwell was here. Joe Lister was here. Of course, they were from Athens. Then you had Harold Black was already here. Guy named Eugene was already here. Ahh, who was already here? Of course, I knew these people from Athens. I didn' ; t know the other students that were already here. And of course Holmes by that time had already graduated. He was gone. So they were the marines and we were the army coming in. VJ: Okay. KD: So I finally went back after threatening and finally he gave in about a month before school started in August. We started school in September. We started late then. State schools were the last ones that went to school so they didn' ; t start schools then until September. The last week in September and maybe about three before that due, it came in the mail, my acceptance. VJ: Alright. KD: So I didn' ; t know what I was going to do. I was prepared to do something. It looked like I was going in the army or something but it came in the mail and I popped up on campus. And I think at that time when I popped up on campus, maybe there was somewhere there were 7 black students at the time. Otis Johnson was here. He eventually became the mayor of Savannah. Just saw him the other day. Like I said, Harold Black was here. There was about 7 or 8 here on campus. I think I was number 7 on campus or number 8 on campus at the time. And that' ; s how I ended up at the University of Georgia. VJ: And do you think they were trying to control the number of students? KD: I think they still had hoped that we were going to go away. VJ: Ok. KD: My classmate, Dr. Furr was here. He is now deceased. He was here. And that was all the people that I can recall that were here at that time. So that' ; s how I entered the University of Georgia trying to--you know at that time, they want to tell you that you were a black student coming out of black high school you know that was all that was there, that you could not graduate from this institution. Your high school was so poor there was no way you could graduate from this institution. And told us all that even though the University of Georgia wasn' ; t even ranked anywhere academically at the time. It' ; s gotten much better. VJ: Yes. KD: Because the University of Georgia used to be the #1 party school in the country. Matter a fact, Playboy had an article on it at one time when I was in school. And they ranked the top 10 party schools in the country and the University of Georgia was not on the list because Playboy said it was beyond fair to compare these other colleges with the University of Georgia because it was so far out front. Anyway, it was a good school. It was a good education so when I got to Georgia they told me, my buddy, my friend that I went to high school with, Dr. Furr - same class but had been admitted. I had no idea about thinking about applying. No one ever told me to apply. I just wanted to flirt with the teachers or something. I was a big time football player and this and that even though I was president of my honor society in high school. VJ: Okay, okay. KD: So they told me all this. So I got here and one thing Dr. Furr told me. He says now, " ; You need to carry you some ' ; stare' ; material to class." ; And I said, " ; What' ; s that?" ; And he says, `It' ; s something for you to read while other teachers, students stare at you before they call the class to order?' ; [laughter] VJ: Okay. KD: He was absolutely right. Now in all fairness of my years at the University of Georgia to the students, I will give them overall probably a B rating, a B+ rating. I think when you look back on history, it was the administration that we had more problems with. They were afraid. Because they didn' ; t want to appear to be too liberal and they were scared of their alumni as to what they were going if they let so many black students in so forth and so on. So they were standing their ground just like they stood their ground with the integration of high school. VJ: Ok. KD: You know, same thing. It got better by and by. Well, now when I was in school we started a Black Student Union. There were no black fraternity, black sororities on campus or anything so we started the Black Student Union to advocate for the rights of black students. We formed this organization and we made demands on the university. Matter of fact, I brought a copy. We made twenty demands we made on the university. We made demands like: we wanted black faculty, we wanted black scholarships. One of the demands that we made that came through - If I had to make it again, I wouldn' ; t make it. And we wanted some black athletes. [laughter] As of today that' ; s all we have are black athletes. But in 1966 when I was a sophomore I decided to go out for the football team. VJ: Yes, you did. KD: I went out for the football team and got my life threatened. So forth by the Klan. VJ: So by the Klan. KD: By the Klan. VJ: But no one on the campus-- KD: Said a word. VJ: Said a word. KD: Well not directly but when I went out, there was a big national news, matter a fact, international news. I saw the people in the armed services newspaper said they read about it in Europe. Because I was the first black person in the whole south, it wasn' ; t just the University of Georgia. When I went out in 1966 there was not one black athlete in the entire south playing. So there I go out there. And Vince Dooley was there. He was in his third year of coaching. It went decently well except for the first couple of days. They were going to pick at me a little bit. When I got in the shower everybody left. [laughter] VJ: Okay. KD: So when I was in the shower they wanted to throw a little soap. VJ: Hmm. KD: So you know, I' ; m a football player you think that is going to intimidate me? So I just took all the soap and everything else and threw it back over and told them tomorrow I' ; m bringing my wrench and when I get in the shower I' ; m going to take a loose a sink and I' ; m going to throw it over there. [laughter] I mean, I' ; m a football player and you' ; re going to intimidate me? But athletics brings about respect real quick. Once you knock a couple of people on their butt, it brings about respect real quick. So that subsided. And I made some lifelong friends out there. Some of the people out there then was -- Let' ; s see who you may know? Let' ; s see Billy Payne. You' ; ve ever heard of Billy Payne. VJ: I' ; ve heard of Billy Payne. KD: He became the -- Helped the Olympics come to Atlanta with Andrew Young. And then he became the president of the Masters. Billy Payne was out there. A couple of lawyers around town, one of the lawyer from around town was out there. But he made it clear. Dooley made it clear that he was not going to play me. I am not a big Vince Dooley fan. But I understand now looking at history. He was - may have been under some pressure. VJ: A little bit. KD: A little bit. Had a good team that year. As a matter of fact, a guy that followed me a little later, Hurley. I was a senior when Hurley came in the freshman team. He made it clear that he wasn' ; t going to play him either. But I can tell you the whole history about the south in regards to athletes. But then about this time I was in school. I was in Business School. So the students were either interested or disinterested. They didn' ; t bother you or either they were respectful. We used to go down and play pick-up ball at what we called Stegeman Hall then. At that time. Met a couple of white guys. Got to know them and we' ; ve known them for years. Now what happened when we started making demands on what we wanted. Got to remember this was during the civil rights movement, right in the midst of the civil rights movement. You even had white people here and they were called SDS [Students for a Democratic Society] and all that was here so forth Student Democratic Society and they were marching and sometimes we would march with them about some things and so forth. Then we had to fight sometimes. One of the biggest fights we ever had was in the Bulldog Room. They' ; ve changed it now to the Tate Center movie a little bit. And I remember one of the days we had to fight was, we had some black and white restrooms for the help. VJ: They had black and white what? KD: Restrooms for the help. So we found out they had black and white restrooms for the help. Because remember these people were serving us particularly from Athens, I knew them because I grew up in Athens. VJ: That' ; s true. KD: So we decided that we were going to say, ' ; Here it is. Nobody else coming through this line until they take those signs down' ; . So we stood there for about fifteen or twenty minutes then someone tried to come through the line and a whole fight broke out, in the whole Bulldog room. We fought maybe twenty-five or thirty minutes before the campus cops got there and broke us up. And the next thing you know we were over there meeting with the president. I can' ; t remember-- I think it may have been -- It wasn' ; t Aderhold, it was president then-- I should remember his name. I' ; m getting old. We used to call him a nickname. We used to call him Horse Doctor [Fred Davison] because he had PhD in veterinary medicine, behind his back [laughter]. We used to meet with him once a month in the president' ; s dining room over at Continuing Ed. I don' ; t know if they still have the President' ; s room over there or not. And we would discuss our demands and so forth. VJ: And is this BSU? You all were representing as BSU? KD: Yes. BSU. Black Student Union. VJ: And how many of you would usually go to discuss? KD: About six or seven of us. VJ: Six or seven. KD: It was that many of us to start with. VJ: Right. That' ; s what' ; s making me wonder over at the Bulldog Room. You all were ready to fight and there was only how many? KD: Six or seven. VJ: Six or seven taking on UGA [inaudible] Right. You all were fighters but you had to be. KD: And we had some fights in a couple of other places and one thing we did do - Dixie. Atlanta Dixie. So here is what we did. One of the demands was that they quit playing Dixie at the football games. So we -- our protest was that as long as they played Dixie, we would not stand up for the National Anthem. So we were in the stands - The guy [Colin] Kaepernick out in California? VJ: Yes. KD: I don' ; t know. He must have stole that from us. VJ: I' ; m telling you. You all were doing it a long time before that, weren' ; t you? Wow. KD: We would not stand up for the national anthem. VJ: My goodness. KD: And I think we had one person in the band or something like that and they went to Mississippi or something like that, they could not go with the band. VJ: Wait you' ; re saying that they couldn' ; t go-- KD: To Mississippi or Alabama with the band. If they were in the band they could not go, did not go. VJ: Okay. KD: But finally they stopped playing Dixie after we protested so much in the stadium about it. And you' ; ve heard the story about the sign that was in the stadium. When I was in school they double decked the stadium. The stadium was not double decked when I first got here. Matter a fact, the stadium used to have a ' ; colored section' ; as they called it. Amazing about that. VJ: Was it usually full? KD: Yeah it was still there when we were students. VJ: Okay. KD: Strange history. Here is what' ; s strange about that as you get older. People would come to the game, sit in that colored section made of wood stands and pull for a school that they could not go attend or their children could not attend. Isn' ; t that a shame? Isn' ; t that amazing? And they were big Bulldog fans. VJ: Big Bulldog fans. KD: And I' ; ll tell you something that' ; s about a little known history. So the only time in that stadium when they first got integrated except for the student section where we sat was when I went out for the football team that day at G-Day, my mother sat and my [high school] football coach sat -- first time they ever sat in a regular place/seating. They gave them tickets. Yes. VJ: Nice. KD: That was the first time but they still had the colored section down on the end. VJ: But they got tickets to sit in the regular section. KD: Right. That was the first time that had ever been done. VJ: But you still didn' ; t play, right? You just -- KD: This was just spring practice. VJ: This was during spring practice. Okay. KD: I only stayed during spring practice because he made it clear that he was not going to play me. So I wasn' ; t going to be no tackling dummy on the B team and you aren' ; t going to play me and so forth. He didn' ; t say it in so many words but through his actions. VJ: Right. KD: The coach who I liked the most was the defensive coach. And I loved him. And he was very friendly and helpful and so I went through all of that. So it finally came time to graduate and I left for a-- I got drafted into the army. VJ: Before you go into that, I did want to ask when you all refused to stand for -- KD: The national anthem? VJ: The national anthem. Was that the entire black section that wouldn' ; t stand or was it just you all as students. KD: Just us as students. Just us in the student section. We were in the student section. VJ: And of course everyone noticed, right? Even though there only 7 or 8 of you? KD: Yeah. VJ: And it still disturbed them. Wow. KD: Because at the same time we were protesting that they quit playing Dixie. VJ: Right. KD: As a matter a fact, Dean Tate was around then. VJ: Okay. KD: Okay. And you' ; ll see that one of the demands we made to the school is that they quit playing Dixie. So we had done something historical at that time. Justice [Robert] Benham who is on the Supreme Court of Georgia now. He was in law school. We had that we called a " ; Black House." ; Yeah we had a house called The Black House. Out there on Lumpkin Street. And that' ; s where we met. And Justice Benham was staying in the Black House. VJ: What? Wow. KD: Yes, we had parties out there in the Black House and everything. VJ: That was especially the Black House? That was only yours? KD: Yes, only ours. It was a house he was renting from the church out there. VJ: Okay. KD: So we just called it the Black House. We met, hung out and had parties and everything. It was interesting at first. One time we were having a party and some white kid walked in or something with a white girl. The guy got mad and takes his [music] box and went home. So we had to sit around and talk about that. And so we finally said that the white kids could come. They could come to the black house parties. Matter of fact we went around to some of the [white] sorority and fraternity houses' ; parties. Because sometimes they would have black entertainers. VJ: Ah. KD: See at their parties. And also what fraternities and sororities did was, they kept a record of all the tests that the professors had given. VJ: Yes. KD: I finally told them I had to get a copy of that test. You know, I' ; m not --[laughter]. You' ; re not going to come in here-- We are going to be on an equal basis and you' ; ve got some kind of record. I' ; m coming in looking at the files. I want to see what kind of test that the professor gave the last time or whatever. I did that a couple of times. But what really happened though and in a sense it makes sense, that as more blacks got on campus more polarization occurred. Particularly when the [black] fraternities and sororities got on campus. More polarization occurred and blacks and whites kind of separated. Yes, at that time you didn' ; t have anyone else so you played ball down at Stegeman Hall with the white kids and this and that and the other. And you would have a cup of coffee or whatever. But as more blacks came on campus polarization occurred. Sometimes I think maybe these fraternities and sororities were the worst thing that could have ever happened... even though I' ; m an Alpha. [laughter] I don' ; t know what it is like today. I don' ; t know. But there are still now blacks mingling in the white sorority or fraternities, I don' ; t know. I know that there are some whites that are members of some black organizations on campus. I know that but I don' ; t know if it' ; s the opposite way or not. I don' ; t keep up with the campus as much as I used to. I' ; ve gotten older. So we kinda plucked along there. More blacks started coming. I think when I left maybe, it might have been twenty blacks on campus at that time when I graduated. The University of Georgia had the -- As I got older I studied the history. The University of Georgia had the most active black student union in the south. VJ: Alright. KD: That probably came from the fact that a lot of the kids came from Athens and we felt a little more secure in that we also-- I came into here out of the Civil Rights Movement. I just finished marching against the Klan. So you aren' ; t going to intimidate me by any means of the imagination. I' ; m like an already trained soldier. So we had a little different attitude than maybe some of the kids from out of town that never had done that. So we weren' ; t as afraid. So Otis Johnson, [laughter] my mayor. I think he got suspended one time by jumping over the table at Dean Tate about something he said to him. VJ: He did what? KD: Got suspended. [laughter] VJ: By jumping on? KD: Jumping at Dean Tate. VJ: Oh. KD: Or threatened to be suspended. VJ: Okay. KD: That' ; s the sixties, see. All of this occurred in the sixties. The Civil Rights Movement is when all of this is occurring. So, the professors were okay. Some were very friendly and tried to help you, particularly those from the north. It wasn' ; t a big grade thing. They wouldn' ; t try to give you an F or something. They didn' ; t do that. VJ: Okay. KD: The biggest thing I learned in the end was that when I came over to the University of Georgia and they were telling us that you came from a poor black high school, you can' ; t graduate from there. So the mistake I made, I came over looking for the genius, all these white geniuses I was supposed to meet. And I spent all these years [laughter] and come to find out there were no geniuses. They weren' ; t any more smarter than I was. [laughter]. I did come out--what you had here at that time-- you have to remember you had the cream of the crop black students. You didn' ; t come unless you were academically good. VJ: It sounds like athletically good too. Just well rounded. KD: Yeah I was raised as a football player. So everybody was here. So all the kids I went to school with, you know you got Dr. Zell Phillips [Dr. Rogsbert Phillips-Reed] that left here and went to Atlanta and got her medical degree. She is one of the top surgeons in Atlanta now. Dr. Anderson Williams who is retired from Morehouse now as a professor. Harold Black was on the Federal Reserve. Margaret Davis(?) who was a CPA with the IRS. Penny Colepenny(?) became a big author. Mary Blackwell who got a PhD and became a doctor at--not a medical doctor but a PhD. She is still teaching at FAMU [Florida A& ; M University]. She is on the Board of Regents down there. It' ; s amazing how fighting surge turned out, it really was. VJ: It turned out really well. KD: Joe Sell got his law degree. Left and went to Miami. Just a long list. Those are my people. VJ: And it sounds like you stayed in contact with each other. KD: Well I do because I' ; m here. They all know that I' ; m here. VJ: Okay. KD: So they all call or whatever because they know I' ; m in Athens. So we stay in contact, yes. VJ: And all of them are originally from Athens? KD: No, all of these people are from out of town. Most of them are from out of town. They still know that I' ; m here. VJ: No, I mean they originally grew up in Athens or are they from out of town? KD: No, no. VJ: No, some were from out of town. KD: No. The majority of the students were eventually were black students from out of town, eventually. We had a little basic core out that started from Athens and then. But the first people that came in were not from Athens. VJ: Right. KD: Probably maybe one that I have not heard from and unfortunately some funerals I' ; ve been to that went to school with me. So, some of the whites I still remember that I was in undergrad with. Some of them, strangely enough some of the people I was in undergrad with that were white students, boom! I ended up with them in law school. VJ: Oh wow. KD: So they were in my law school and I had great dealings with them. And when I graduated as seniors in my law school class everybody took a year off before they came back to law school and then they were in my law school class. VJ: Sounds smart. KD: I' ; ve been knowing them ever since I was 19 years of age. So I still see some of them. When I got back to my law school reunion and there they were, still there. And being a lawyer I would see them, the ones that went to law school. I see them periodically. And some of them are still in Athens. Some of them I went to undergrad and law school with and still see them. VJ: And you went into the military before you went to law school right? KD: Right, I only stayed in the military for 8 weeks. VJ: 8 weeks, okay. KD: That' ; s how I ended up in the math program. They had a rule was that-- I was going to plan to get my master' ; s in business but you had to start in the fall. By the time I got out of the military the fall semester had started so that' ; s how I ended up in the math program for a couple of months. And they gave me a little money so I was just there working on my masters. I' ; m glad I did. I took a little Calculus and all those things and it benefited me later in life to be able to have that knowledge. And then I decided then that this is not for me so I went to work. VJ: Went to work. KD: Then I found out that I was not happy with being a cost accountant at Lockheed. I stayed there a year and decided I' ; d come back to law school. Because I still had that civil rights thing in the back of my mind. VJ: Okay, right. KD: So I said, no, I' ; ll go back to law school and there I was. And I was the first black student that had gone undergrad to law school. I was the first Double Dog. Black Double Dog. VJ: Wow. KD: And so ended up telling the dean of the Law School that I was coming to the Law School and he said here' ; s the test. And so I ended up in there the fall of 1970 going to law school. And Justice [Robert] Benham who was in law school had just graduated. And Justice [Robert] Benham was the first black person to be elected statewide in an office. He was elected to the Court of Appeals. And then he was appointed to the Supreme Court of Georgia. And he used to be the president of BASA. We used to call him Bully Bob because one day he was down there in the Black House. And we had set him up to talk to Dean Tate and Dean Sims, he was the assistant dean then. About some of the things we wanted to do, what we wanted, what we were demanding and if they did not concede to our demands we were going to march and tear up the computer room. And so he came back and said Dean Tate did not agree to demands so we are going to fake like we are going to march and tear up the computer room. And one of my buddies in the back said, you' ; re not going to do it. You' ; re just a bully. So we called him Bully and nicknamed him Bully Bob. VJ: Bully Bob, okay. KD: Now, I can tell these stories now because he next month will retire from the Supreme Court of Georgia. VJ: Okay. KD: Yes, so he is going to retire from the Supreme Court next month. Matter of fact he came in and spoke at a Hunter Holmes lecture last month. Yes, he was the speaker. But we were the team that in my generation was forgotten about. Completely. We were the army so the -- I' ; m not being critical that the university gave the impression that after Hamilton Holmes and Charlayne Hunter that everything was hunky dory, like just love from there on. Oh no. That is not the way it occurred. We had plenty of fights and things and demands at that time that we fought for. That to make it easier for the students that came after us. That was a -- and we used to go to the Thespian Debate Society? Is it still there? I guess so. VJ: I think so. KD: We used to debate over there in the hall that was over there. We used to go to the debate team with the white students about civil rights stuff. And so forth, we did all that. Well I say this, I think a lot of people say, ' ; Boy I feel sorry because you went to the University of Georgia undergrad. Taking all that flack that you had to take.' ; I would not give anything for my experiences. Thank God for the University of Georgia because I had a unique experience. VJ: Yes. KD: We used to have a saying that now, ' ; If you really want to know if you are black just come up to a predominantly white college like the University of Georgia and they' ; ll let you know real quick' ; . I remember we had one fraternity that had the confederate flag. You know we had a problem with their confederate flag and they used to fly it out in front of their frat house over on Lumpkin street. And we were trying to figure out how we were going to get our hands on that flag. [laughter] And one guy says we going to get a bow and arrow. [laughter] And I said, ' ; You can' ; t hit the side of a bird with a bow and arrow. What are you some kind of idiot?' ; So we went through all that. Now back to my sign. My sign. We had this sign when Georgia played Houston. So Georgia had gone down the year before. I can' ; t remember exactly what year it was. It had to be 1965. No, it was later than that. 1967 or something like that. They had gone down to play University of Houston and they had some black players on their team. They had this one all-American Warren McVeigh. Little scout back and they killed Georgia. 35 to 7 or something like that. And so he was supposed to come to Georgia. And this is the first time a black player was going to officially play in a game in Sanford Stadium. VJ: Yes. KD: So the stadium had been double decked now. Nationally televised game. So we stayed up all night. We made this long sign because we wanted everyone on television to see this sign. This long sign that says ' ; Houston defeats Georgia with Black Power' ; because Houston was favored in the game. This long sign. So it was about 3 o' ; clock when we finished that sign. VJ: 3 o' ; clock in the morning? KD: 3 o' ; clock in the morning. The game started at 2 so we had a good little sleep. So we designated a person to bring the sign to the stadium. So he gets to the stadium and he doesn' ; t have the sign. We said, where is the sign? He says, it was rolled up and they still didn' ; t let me bring it in. They didn' ; t know what was on it but they still wouldn' ; t let me bring it in. He was checked through the check-in. So I said go back to the Black House, get the sign and throw it over the fence. So he went back and got the sign. So it wasn' ; t secure or anything like it is now. So we get the sign and we take it out on the second row. And beautiful sign. By that time, they tried to put the sign down and a fight broke out. God takes care of fools and children cause we are on the second deck. It was a wonder no one got thrown over the second deck and got killed. So we held up the television for about twenty minutes out there fighting for this sign and the police finally showed up and someone jerked the sign down and it fell to the bottom. VJ: And that was that. KD: So the fighting stopped and the television came on. VJ: So the TV wasn' ; t on during this fight, at all. KD: Wasn' ; t on during the fight. That' ; s a shame. VJ: Mm, hmm, hmm. KD: So here is what happened, they were running up and down the field and if you know anything about football terminology, they had gained 500 yards. It was a guy named Paul Gibson fumbled the football 3 times. Big running back fumbled the football three times on the 1-yard line and Georgia ended up tying the game 10 to 10. Something I was thinking about as I was walking off the field I said, that' ; s a shame. If you can' ; t beat them, you might as well just join them. Someone told me that my sign was in Archives here somewhere. I would love to see that sign, again. So that' ; s what happened. Finally, the University finally decided to - University of Georgia was one of the last schools to give black athletes football scholarships. The first was Vanderbilt, then Tennessee had a guy play split end and Vanderbilt had a basketball player. Played during the time I was in school, when I was in school the games were not all played in the coliseum. They had Woodrow Hall and it was too small so you had to pull straws to get in. Because all of the students couldn' ; t get into the basketball game. VJ: You pulled straws to get in the basketball game? KD: Yeah VJ: Like if you had the shortest straw you could get in type thing? Ok. KD: That' ; s how you got in. Then they built the coliseum. My daddy helped build the coliseum. He was a carpenter and a bricklayer and he built the coliseum. So I was in school when he built the coliseum. VJ: Wow KD: And they used to have concerts in the coliseum and black performers used to come in and Isaac Hayes and Temptations, whatever whatever, Ray Charles. I remember when Ray Charles came in there one night. They still had curfews particularly for women. You had to be back in the dorm at a certain time. So the curfew was- time was running out. So people were getting up to leave and Ray was playing and he wanted to know what this was all about, what was the disturbance all about. And they told Ray the reason and Ray told them, sit down. Tell everybody to sit back down. Ray playing now. They can [laughter] violate the curfew tonight. So that-- VJ: So no one got in trouble KD: Nobody got in trouble. And so brought a lot of black performers to the University of Georgia, the student council, they brought a lot of black performances to the coliseum. I don' ; t know if they still do or not. I don' ; t think they do, do they? VJ: I don' ; t at the coliseum, every now and then at the stadium but I don' ; t remember at the coliseum. Well I don' ; t know if the coliseum could hold bring in those big names like that KD: They had 10000 seats 20000 seats or whatever they have would probably not be big enough, and I don' ; t think they do anymore. A lot of black performers came. James Brown and James Brown used to perform at halftime at the football games. He used to sing " ; I' ; m Black and I' ; m Proud" ; at the football games. VJ: At the football games. KD: Yeah, halftime yeah. VJ: There was only eight students but you did still have the black section during those games or- KD: The black sections finally when they started redoing the stadium went away. VJ: During that time KD: So you could take it like everybody, sit wherever you want. VJ: Where ever they want to, ok KD: Once they did the double decker seats, it went away. So that is no longer in play and the strange thing about it now is go to reflect and I' ; m a tough guy about Georgia and its population. What officially happened to the University of Georgia is that I was a lawyer when they filed in the University of Georgia affirmative action program. I' ; m back in town now. I' ; d been back in town a good while. The University of Georgia had an affirmative action program. It was based on Harvard' ; s model and I didn' ; t get in under the affirmative action program. I got in under tokenism- I can tell the truth about that. Lee Parks filed that lawsuit, we called the whoop cases. It' ; s not that old, it' ; s maybe 15 years. People have never heard of it. He went way down into Brunswick, Georgia and he went judge shopping and he filed his case down in Brunswick Georgia. You can sue the University of Georgia from anywhere. So he sued them in federal court down there to get a federal judge. So the old program was if you had been a graduate of the University of Georgia your kid would get a point or two for legacy. And white males would get a point, just being a white, just being a male because what they did was they balanced the campus 50-50, males and females. When I used to go to football games and so forth, out there for a while, when I was in school for a while they all wore suits and ties. VJ: At the football games? KD: Yeah, so you always figured that you had to understand they had the Lucy Cobb House- I' ; m from Athens and it still existed when I was a kid - that predominantly the University of Georgia was male so the females came up to the Lucy Cobb house to- it still exist right now- to date and mingle with the males to have a mate. Yup still there now. It doesn' ; t function as a church in school but it' ; s probably a sorority house now. So they balanced it 50/50. Now when Lee Parks out of Atlanta filed that case, it' ; s strange. Who was he trying to hurt, here, see? And I' ; ll tell you something about that when he filed that case they had quite a few black students at the University of Georgia then. So we did, we took all the black SAT scores and the white SAT scores and we stacked them. His plaintiffs were saying that they were not getting admitted because the black students were taking their place. Their test scores were always lower than the lowest black SAT score. So it was three cases and we kicked them out every time because they didn' ; t have any standing. Until one day he filed the third case, in the middle of that litigation Justice Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court wrote a decision called ' ; The Sage' ; and it said if it looked like it appeared to be discriminatory they would have a standing to go forward. That is how the University of Georgia -Harvard plan ended. So when they did that they brought about problems because they could not have an Affirmative Action program for a while, even though I think the universe sort of- you know, you could always craft a program not just based on test scores and grades. The University of Georgia was like the BIG 10, they used to say they had a formula. Test scores and grades you got in, test scores and grades you got in and they would take the last admittees and you could say I read the essay and I like them, I think they still should get in. So that' ; s still pretty much the case today to some extent but to get into the University of Georgia. So that happened and as a result the number of black students went down. I don' ; t know if it was the perception but I haven' ; t had a chance to study- did the number of applicants go down? Did the number of black students just went down? I don' ; t know. I think as a result the number of applicants went down because everybody had this perception that they could not get in. So at first when the applicants went down, the number of black students went down. So that is still the problem today. VJ: And you were saying there was a point towards you if you were a male. A male period? Or a- KD: Yup, a male period, white males got the preference. That was before you even started coming. Before you even started they had preference to get in to keep the student body balanced. So who did he hurt? So if you look at the University now, it' ; s not balanced anymore. They' ; ve got more white female students than they' ; ve got male. Probably almost 70% female. He hurt- I don' ; t know that he hurt white females, I don' ; t know as far as socially? Interesting question. That' ; s an interesting question. It' ; s not balanced. Not everybody has a date. Interesting question. VJ: That is true. KD: Sometimes what you intend to do does not turn out the way you intended to do it. Intended to happen. And it also hurt black males because I know that they' ; re not many black males at the University because of those cases, so far. But those are interesting phenomena as that goes on. And then we have this Hope thing. Do you know about the Hope? They took the cap off Hope VJ: Yes, they took the cap off Hope. KD: And when they took the cap off Hope, all the students from north of Atlanta, the wealthy part of Georgia, came to Georgia. 80% of the students at the University of Georgia are from north of Atlanta. And now every student over here is on HOPE [Scholarship]. So as a result, north Atlanta has some of the best high schools in the country. So the SAT score went up and so it brought about problems. How they are going to resolve that I don' ; t know. But that' ; s a problem that we have today. But- so back in my days at law school- so I came back to law school and some of the people I knew so I didn' ; t have fear because, what they used to do in bringing students in particular to graduate school. Guess what they used to do? They didn' ; t look down at the undergrad kids (within UGA), they would go to Morehouse, Spellman, and try to get their best students to come. If you look at the- if you would go and look at the early graduate student/professional schools. All those kids came from those schools. They didn' ; t come from- they act like we did not exist. For a while they act like- if you wanted to get a kid to go to say vet school here, or go to law school you think would look down at your student body first. No they didn' ; t. They- of course there wasn' ; t that many blacks at that school at that time. But all those kids came from Tuskegee and whatever and whatever. They didn' ; t invite the black kids from [UGA] undergrad into those schools. It' ; s interesting. They would try to get the top black students at Spellman or Morehouse to come to Georgia. So the kids I was in Law School with was from Morehouse, Spellman and whatever. VJ: Could you tell any differences with the education or any of the culture or anything? KD: No, the difference in the culture was that -- you know, they had been to black high schools and black colleges. So they come in a little more timid than I did because they had never been into a predominantly white institution. So they came in a little more timid than I did. You know I was already used to that, see. So when you talk to me you' ; re talking to a different person. VJ: Right, right. So glad to be talking to you too. KD: So I was a little bit different. I was a little more pushy. So in law school we started what we called BASA - Black American-- and I started that. VJ: And what' ; s it called? KD: BASA. Black American Student Association. VJ: Okay. KD: They still have it now. VJ: So you started the BSU and then you started one in law school as well. KD: Yes. But these were all national organizations, now. VJ: Okay. KD: Every law school has one. So I started one here. VJ: Alright. KD: So that is how all of that occurred. And so now my only concern about the University now is the number of black kids at the University. I remember once when I was in law school, I went to Chicago and we were having a convention up there in Boston and I met a girl from the University of Oklahoma, whatever. Met the football team, a bunch of black players. And I said I know you guys got it made in University of Oklahoma all those black students you' ; ve got. Man y' ; all must really got it made. And she said Ken the only thing at the University of Oklahoma black are black football players and that we have the same problem. The only thing is the University of Georgia football players. It is amazing to me as alumnus, on Saturday morning we all gather everybody from the city of Athens, all black across the state and pull for the University of Georgia, pull for a school that that kid cannot get in. So we have come full circle from the time we had the colored section. Same identical thing. If you don' ; t know your history you' ; ll repeat itself. So those things would have to be addressed about the number of black students here. That' ; s my biggest concern with the University of Georgia now. And the Law School also. It' ; s dropped some. My son graduated from the University of Georgia Law school. And when he was over there we had 100 black students I think now we just have 50. VJ: Oh, wow. KD: So those are things I' ; m concerned with as I get older. Now at the same time I have no idea of the number of black applications they get because I don' ; t work here so I don' ; t know. But the University of Georgia has an interesting history as to what the past was. It wasn' ; t like -- I never met Frances Early. Did not know she existed until I was 45 years old. VJ: Oh really? KD: Yes, never heard of her. VJ: Of course she was in grad school, right? KD: She transferred in for six months from my understanding. Didn' ; t even know she was here. So the only people I know was that crew I was with that was in the middle of the civil rights movement that was determined that they were going to make their mark in regards to changing things at the University. Has it changed? I don' ; t know. I mean you' ; ve got different kids now - both black and white kids on campus so those are interesting questions. History will determine. And that is about all I can say. [laughter] VJ: Well tell me a little bit about some of your early education in grade school. Did that make a difference as far as your fighting spirit because that' ; s bold? Because it' ; s like: well I can' ; t down here in Savannah so I' ; m just going to go to UGA. I' ; m just going to see if I can get in. Why not give it a shot in the midst of all of this civil unrest going on. KD: Well I didn' ; t think I would have a problem getting in because the people in front of me I had gone to high school with, I had done just as well as they had grade-wise and SAT scores so I didn' ; t see the problem. VJ: So are you talking about the white students. KD: No, the black students, Mary Blackwell and Dr. Fir. VJ: Of the ones already at UGA. KD: There was already three at UGA when I applied. So I didn' ; t think it was going to be a problem. Here I am, President of the Honor Society, captain of the football team -- VJ: Gotcha. KD: You know, I didn' ; t think it would be any problem. Well the thing that surprised me, I thought that I got a little brainwashed saying that you can' ; t go to school with these students. My junior year I' ; m out their teaching foreign students about base 2, the binary system. The computer ran off the binary system. They had this big computer lab with the cards but it ran off what you called the base 2 system. You' ; ve got all kinds of base. You have base 2, base 10, whatever base. We used base 10 system. The computer system used the base 2, you know 1+1 is 2, 1 was 11. We don' ; t use it anymore but that was the computer operating. And people came in from Norway. I think I had a girl from Norway and three or four of them that I had to teach the base 2 system to. VJ: You were teaching them as a part of your education program? Or were you just-- KD: Just friends. Same math class trying to get and understanding. VJ: So this is all a part of your Math class that you were -- KD: Yes, computer math class, yes. So I still haven' ; t found this genius. And then it dawned on me in the end, that there was no genius but it took years for it to dawn on me in that. Then I got a little pet historian and during that time black high schools were outperforming white high schools, academically. VJ: Academically. KD: They were in my time. And it took it a long time for them to admit the truth. But the studies were done and yes. I was -- I know what a data modifier is. I had the math class of trigonometry in high school. I had all that stuff and some kids I used to go to class and it was in math class and some kids came from a good high school. And they would say in calculus --those students would say to the professor-- they would do it like this. And I would say, whoa we aren' ; t going to do any Calculus because I haven' ; t had any Calculus so you can forget that. You know my school didn' ; t teach Calculus. They taught pretty much and all the students who came through here, you know. They didn' ; t have any academic problems. All my crowd, they graduated. They graduated. Like I said, they were good high school students. You didn' ; t come unless you were a good high school student. VJ: Yes, you had to be. KD: Yes, you didn' ; t come. And it was all really smart kids. And they may have gotten a little civil rights blood in them and they got rowdy sometimes [laughter]. VJ: Well at least academically everybody was sound so you didn' ; t have to worry about that as much as so you go after your civil -- KD: Yes, everybody was academically sound. I can' ; t even remember, ever recall any black kids I was in school with ever flunking a course. I don' ; t think that happened. I don' ; t even recall that or anybody ever saying that teacher didn' ; t give me a fair grade in a sense. So one day I was looking for the genius. And I was in a cost accounting class. At that time everybody went to business school you had to take cost accounting. You don' ; t have to do that now unless you are an accounting major. VJ: Ok. cost-- KD: Cost accounting. That' ; s the accounting, say, if you made an automobile, it was going through the assembly line you' ; ve got to figure out how much the automobile costs. VJ: Okay. KD: So you have to allocate the things to put on the car, the lights that it costs, the electricity, the salary of the people, that determines what the cost of the car is. And it' ; s tough. Cost accounting is tough. Lot of business students regret taking cost accounting. So I was in class one day and came in on a cost accounting test and I made a 96 and another guy made a 100. Everybody else flunked. Boom! Everybody flunked that test. They made 50' ; s, 60' ; s. The professor comes in and she says Mr. Johnson and Mr. Dious stand up. She said, you guys had my test didn' ; t you? I didn' ; t have the test. And so she started asking questions and he could not answer them. And then he finally admitted that he had the test. Now, I' ; m angry because how he gets the test and I couldn' ; t get it?! [laughter] KD: So I got to keep it, you know, competitive. [laughter] VJ: Well it sounds like that even though you didn' ; t have the tests you still would have been able to answer her questions though. KD: I figured it out, I figured it out. VJ: Wow. KD: So I' ; m looking for the genius and I' ; m just wasting my time. I didn' ; t have the test. [laughter] Cause normally when you came out of a cost accounting test you got a C. Nobody got an A. You know she did give me a B and I was the only B in the class. VJ: But did you really earn a B or did you really earn an A. KD: Ahh, I don' ; t know. Well I think they just had a philosophy that they weren' ; t going to give anybody and A. VJ: Okay. KD: So I lived with it. VJ: So that is how you ended up over there with Lockheed didn' ; t you. Those grades that you had. KD: Yes, I had good undergrad grades. So that is how I ended up in Lockheed and then I decided I didn' ; t want to be -- you know I majored in finance. My undergrad major was finance. I didn' ; t want to be an accountant. I didn' ; t want to hit a machine everyday adding up numbers. When I was at Savannah State the difference in the schools were when I was at Savannah State they had calculators, one calculator. We had to get in line to use it. When I came to Georgia business school, they had so many in the basement the guys used to go down there and play with them in general. The difference in facilities. VJ: So you had to wait in line to use a calculator in Savannah State but at Georgia, what did you say? KD: It was just plentiful. VJ: It was plentiful. KD: Yes, difference. VJ: Nice. KD: So that' ; s my experience as I can recall at the University of Georgia. I had a ball. Of course I didn' ; t want to say-- You just not going to let me come in and you going to depress me. You just going to make it miserable and it' ; s going to be a miserable times of my youth. That just wasn' ; t going to happen. But instead it turned out to be a unique experience. I wouldn' ; t take anything for it. Yes, I wouldn' ; t take anything for it. Really wouldn' ; t. You know, it helped when I came back to Athens. I was the first black attorney in Athens. VJ: Yes. KD: So, I had gotten used to going through all that. I' ; m well trained. The University of Georgia well trained me for all that. So that did not bother me. VJ: And when you were younger because you were exposed to this in high school, so how did your parents feel about your exposure? Did they know what you were doing or? KD: At Georgia. VJ: Yes, well you were ready to fight for -- KD: You know they didn' ; t ever-- as long as the grades were there I buried one of the-- I wouldn' ; t say I buried but I spoke at his funeral [inaudible] Lassiter, good friend of mine in high school but he came back here. He was one years or two years in front of me but he came back here to work on his masters and he died. He' ; s from Athens so I spoke at his funeral and I was telling some of the things we did together and his mother said, I didn' ; t know all that. I didn' ; t know all of that was going on. [laughter] I don' ; t think my mother knew-- VJ: Knew everything you were doing. KD: One thing my mother told me when I came to the University of Georgia - I really didn' ; t want to go but I had to go - she says, I' ; ll tell you what? They are teaching it. They can' ; t avoid you from learning it. You' ; re in the same class. You just learn it. You just learn it. And that is what I had to do. I never had a black professor. I never went to class with a black student except one quarter. Dr. Furr was in the business school for a moment. He decided to go to south campus. He finally got a PHD in botany. He decided he didn' ; t want to be a business major. And I said Marion, you know, they teaching over there that calculus and that science stuff, you sure you want to go back over there? [laughter] He said yeah, he threw up his hand and the next thing you know he has a PhD in botany. VJ: Ok. KD: So he didn' ; t have any problems. He was my high school classmate. VJ: Ok. KD: I told that at his funeral. He just--boom--just didn' ; t bother him. That chemistry and stuff didn' ; t faze him at all. VJ: He just went through. KD: He just went through it, yeah. VJ: The majority of time there were no other black classmates. KD: After that time there were no other black classmates. That was just one quarter. And we were taking general accounting because we were on the quarter system at that time. After that he decided and he left. So that' ; s the only time I had a black student. I used to be in classes with -- You know there was a history class or and such or whatever and I always had to defend the black point of view. That was quite common. Yes, you had to say what you had to say. VJ: You spoke up. KD: I spoke up! As to what was what. I just wasn' ; t quiet at all. VJ: And how did the majority of the classes receive your outspokenness. Did they learn from? Did you feel like you were teaching? KD: Yes. To the students, if I had to give them a grade, I would give them a B, a B+, a B. VJ: So they heard you? KD: They never tried to call me any names or anything like that. If you did we were going to fight. Like I said I was a football player. I wasn' ; t going to get in any corner and cry. We were going to go at it. None of that, at least, happened to my face. It finally got the point where we would go down to Stegeman and play some pickup basketball. I was in the shower, no big deal. That was no big deal. Sometimes as of matter of fact we would play the University of Georgia basketball team down in Stegeman hall. VJ: Did you? KD: Yes, they would come over and sometimes we would beat the University of Georgia basketball team. Now the thing that you regretted the most was that you were better than some of those players. I remember Herby White got a trial for the Hawks. He used to play for the University of Georgia but because we didn' ; t have that opportunity we didn' ; t get to try out for the Hawks and so forth. So that was heartbreaking right there in that sense. VJ: And you never did try to go out for the basketball team. KD: No. No. Matter of fact, the way I ended up playing again was a friend of mine that was in school named Carter. He said he wanted to go out for the football team but he didn' ; t want to go out by himself. So come spring practice he wasn' ; t in school. VJ: Oh. KD: So we had already told Dooley that we were going out for the football team and my father said if you tell a man something then you have to go forward. Can' ; t back out. So the first day I went out for that football team, everybody was out there. And the minute I hit the field it just [clap] stopped. And so they put this big guy in front of me. During that time in football they used the term ' ; running the gap.' ; They don' ; t do ' ; running the gap' ; anymore. They don' ; t let us play gap ball anymore. And they put this big white guy and everybody just stopped. They were going to see what was going to happen. And so I just had to knock him to the other side of the field and that is what I did. VJ: Oh. KD: Because at that time- you have to remember in the south they didn' ; t realize that black players had caught up in regards to - you know football games is a game of fun. You have to start early. Just like anything, like playing the piano. If you are going to be a good football player, you start at five years old. And they didn' ; t realize that we had to play that well because we had a particular line or something. But I had been taught all that - the right stance and everything when I was a kid and then when I was in high school. So nothing different in that regard. It was strange if you ever think about the south. They always thought that in the south that we could not play basketball. The first major basketball player that went north was a guy named Walter Frasier. He was older than I was. Played for Southern Illinois. First black guy out of the south that got a scholarship to go to another school to play basketball. He played for Howard High. That was big news. And then later he played for the New York Knicks and won three or four championships as point guard. VJ: Aha. KD: So we were not known to be basketball players. We were not known to be football players because you gotta remember that before my generation my daddy when I grew up and started out baseball was king. VJ: Okay. KD: My daddy never understood the game of football. VJ: Okay. KD: All that was evolved very, very fast. VJ: Did you play baseball? KD: Played baseball. VJ: You played all of them, didn' ; t you? KD: Played all of them. VJ: But your favorite was? KD: I don' ; t know. Actually my favorite was football but I got hurt at it. During that time things were evolving in the south. We had a little Y [YMCA]. Matter of fact I was on the swim team. VJ: Yes. KD: All of this stuff was evolving so fast. So when I was a kid we would go to Atlanta and play the little Y' ; s out of Atlanta. That' ; s where I first met Walt Frasier. We played against each through Y through high school. Yes, so that' ; s how that evolved. It evolved that fast. It was evolving so fast that with those type of things. So when I came here, I was sort of the protected generation in the sense that I was still in segregation. I still ' ; back of the bus' ; thing was there when I was 7th and 8th grade. Eighth grade I started marching. But my mother would not let me go over and socialize and work with whites. I didn' ; t know anything about the white community. So I never got embedded to saying ' ; yes, sir' ; , ' ; no, sir' ; . I didn' ; t know anything about that. I didn' ; t think about that at all. So I never got embedded into that. Idea being, she would sometimes work, babysit or something, and I think I had one shirt she brought me from a white guy, a hand me down shirt. When I got out of law school I ended up suing him. Not about the shirt but something else. VJ: Wow. KD: And he asked me how my mother was doing. VJ: Wow. KD: And Walter Danner who is the registrar here, he was a surveyor. So when I became a lawyer, we had two surveyors here. He was the cheapest so I would call him to do surveys for me. He would come by the office and I' ; d give him a survey and I would pay him. And he would remember me from that time. VJ: So even though you were kept apart from the white community during that time, but you didn' ; t develop a fear for -- I guess you weren' ; t hearing or exposed to the negative? KD: Oh, I was exposed to the negative. You know I saw the Klan and all that. VJ: Right. But you had no fear of them when you clashed? KD: I don' ; t think it was coming from fear. I think it was coming from cultural. If you are raised that way to think that whites are superior because you said ' ; no, sir,' ; , yes, sir' ; . VJ: Right. KD: Some folks were saying yes, sir, no, sir to the [white] kids. I wasn' ; t raised that way. My parents wouldn' ; t, my mother just protected me from that. So it never got-- that kind of culture never got embedded in me like that. So as a matter of fact I have any kind of association with the white community at all until I came to the University of Georgia. It was the first time. And when you walked on campus it would just affect you, just take your breath away because you walk from Broad street into a completely white world. Boom. And everything you can see all white. The only time that you would see a black person would be a janitor. As a matter of fact, I knew some of the janitors because I am from Athens. And that was the only time you would see-- as a matter of fact I would see one of the places, I can' ; t remember what dorm - not dorm but classroom, somebody had knocked something over. And a little white girl tapped me on the shoulder and asked me if I would get it up because she assumed I was a janitor. Tapped the wrong person. I just went off. VJ: And I' ; m sure you didn' ; t whisper your response. KD: No, I did not. [laughter] Tapped the wrong person. Let me tell you something. VJ: Oh wow. KD: Yep, that happened. That really did. So those are my experiences yes. VJ: And I imagine that there were quite a few whites on campus who were not exposed to - KD: Blacks. VJ: Yes. KD: They had not been exposed to blacks in regards to sitting beside them in class. They had been exposed to them-- remember when I was kid they had married housing. Some of the students, you got married earlier then and the students had black maids. VJ: Oh, okay. I didn' ; t think about that. KD: Yes, so they were not exposed. You' ; ve got to remember the south pushed hard against desegregation. Even with the football players and everything. See I remember all this stuff -- I gotta tell you a little story. It' ; s a true story. And you can look it up and fact check it. VJ: Ok. KD: I remember when I was a kid and George Wallace ran for governor of Alabama. Actually George Wallace had decided, him and the governor in front of him, that they were going to try to get together and solve some problems that blacks were having in Alabama. So he ran on the Liberty ticket. And he lost. But they had a guy named Flowers [civil rights activist] that ran as his Lt Governor and he won. So when George came back the next time with all this segregation stuff, words he used and everything and he won. So they didn' ; t like Flowers. They thought Flowers was too liberal as Lt. Governor so they framed him and put him in jail, in prison. And what happened was Flowers had a kid named Richmond Flowers, white guy, played football. Good football player. He was a high school all-American in Alabama. Flowers was fast. He used to go down to the black colleges and beat the black kids in the 100. He was a good ball player. So when he came to leave high school in Alabama he said he could not play for Alabama because they had put his daddy in jail. So he decided to play at the University of Tennessee. So this big game up one day between-- he was an All-American at Tennessee, running back. Between Alabama and Tennessee. And Alabama was down there just before the game someone had sent Richmond Flowers a hate letter. And Bear Bryant was upset and he wanted to know who in the so-in-so sent that letter to Richmond Flowers. And finally one of the big tacklers put up their hand. And he said, ' ; Boy, let me tell you something, you should have sent that letter to Richmond Flowers' ; daddy and not to him.' ; He said, ' ; Don' ; t you let Richmond Flowers beat me out there today.' ; And I' ; ll tell you something else that' ; s going to shock you. He says if I have any black/white players on my team ten years from now, it means I' ; ve had a bad recruiting year. They made a movie about that. Richmond Flowers story. Richmond Flowers went on and played 2 years with [inaudible] who lives in Florida now. They made a movie about it called the Richmond Flowers story. VJ: Wow. KD: So after that Bear had the power because he was supposed to have been the -- Bear Bryant, the number one coach in the world. And so when he started recruiting blacks then everybody else came in. Everybody else started. VJ: All the other teams started. KD: Yes. I mean he wasn' ; t the very first but that was the word because he couldn' ; t win anymore outside of the south. So he had to start recruiting black football players. Because for a while, University of Mississippi could not play against any black players. Matter of fact they had a good basketball team so in order to play in the NCAA tournament, they had to sneak off the campus without the consent of the governor or the president. VJ: Oh really. KD: They made a movie about that. Where you guys been? There' ; s a movie about that too. As a matter of fact, they had a reunion about that not too long ago about the guys that played in that game. Yep, all that happened. And you' ; ve heard the story about Sam the Bam Cunningham. You probably don' ; t know who that is. This had a lot to do with integration. He played for the University of USC. Southern California. So he came down to Alabama, played down there in Tuscaloosa and just killed Bear and that' ; s when Bear got real upset and he started recruiting more black players. The name of the story they all him Sam Bam Cunningham. That' ; s the story. That' ; s how all this stuff occurred. So everybody else started recruiting black players. So now we' ; ve got more football players over here that we have students. And that' ; s a problem. A real problem. A big 20 million dollars, 40-million-dollar athletic budget. So that' ; s a problem. Didn' ; t anybody ever taught you all this stuff? VJ: Well, you know I have a general idea. I know that sports really did pull us into the schools and everything but not the details. I didn' ; t keep up with sports really big. And even as a student here I only went to one UGA game. That' ; s enough. I like to watch them on TV. And half the time I didn' ; t know how football was played. We were actually swimmers growing up. So that was our-- KD: Where are you from? VJ: Warner Robins. We grew up swimming. My brothers barely played football. KD: Makes more sense. This ole leg hop around on [inaudible]. VJ: Oh yes. I want to say thank you for coming in for us today and having this great conversation with me. I appreciate all the information you shared today. video 0
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Athens, Georgia
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85 minutes
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University of Georgia Archives
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/hargrett/har-ua20-002_0004/ohms
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Interview with Ken Dious, March 11, 2020
Description
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Kenneth Dious was born in Athens, Georgia and attended Athens-Clarke County public schools. After graduating from high school, he attended Savannah State College and later transferred to the University of Georgia. At UGA he earned a degree in Business Administration in 1968. After a brief stint in the United States Army, and receiving an honorable discharge, Ken returned to the University of Georgia to pursue a Masters Degree in Math Education. Dious then took a position as a cost accountant with the Georgia Lockheed Martin Corporation in Marietta, Georgia. He returned to school a year later, entering the University Of Georgia School Of Law where he earned his Juris Doctor in 1973. In 1974 he opened a law office in Athens as a sole practitioner, becoming the first African American to do so in Northeast Georgia. In this interview Dious discusses his experience as one of the first African Americans to attend the University of Georgia. He shares details about his time as the first African American to wear a UGA football uniform, his experience as a young civil rights protester, and the benefits of starting the Black Student Unions at UGA as both an undergraduate as well as a student of the law school.
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har-ua20-002_0004
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Ken Dious
Venus Jackson
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audio
oral histories
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Political activists
United States--Civil rights
African American athletes
Sports
School integration
Athens Black History
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2020-03-11
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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sound
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Georgia
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
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Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project
Subject
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United States--Officials and employees
State governments--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
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The Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project consists of 175 oral history interviews relating to the personal and political life of Richard B. Russell. Interviewees include members of the Russell family, his staff and interns, other senators and public figures, and friends. The primary interviewer was Hugh Cates, a public relations manager at Southern Bell and secretary of the Russell Foundation (1977-1981). Most of the interviews were recorded between 1971 and 1979, but the majority during 1971 after Senator Russell's death. Other interviewers include: William Stueck, Karen Kelly, Barboura Raesly, Robert G. Stephens, Jr., Dwight L. Freshley, Tom Jackson, Angus Hepburn, and Russell Library staff. Interviews provide insight into Senator Russell's political career as State Representative, Governor, and U.S. Senator, his views on various topics such as civil rights and Vietnam, and his personality and family life.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=23&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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1971-2002
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Oral histories
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RBRL216RBROH
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Georgia
Oral History
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL216RBROH-012/ohms
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5.4 Unknown Date Interview with Patricia Collins Andretta Dwinwell Butler, April 27, 1971 RBRL216RBROH-012 RBRL216RBROH Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Patricia Collins Andretta Hugh Cates oral history 1:|9(5)|25(1)|39(9)|51(7)|64(1)|77(12)|87(14)|99(1)|106(11)|127(2)|139(16)|148(10)|171(5)|183(12)|199(5)|216(3)|231(13)|243(16)|256(11)|267(6)|284(5)|297(2)|308(14)|328(1)|346(2)|365(10)|389(12)|406(2)|421(4)|440(6)|455(11)|482(12)|498(6)|510(1)|528(9)|553(7)|566(12)|583(13)|592(17)|610(12)|618(6)|630(12)|644(4)|653(13)|663(12)|676(12)|685(9)|702(5)|713(12)|728(8)|739(11) 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_2qffedel& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_2dwzyoqm" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 2 Early experiences with Russell I am with Mrs. Patricia Collins Andretta, and we are about to discuss her association over the years with the late Senator Richard Brevard Russell. Department of Justice ; Georgia State Society ; Leeman Anderson ; Senator Walter George ; Smythe Gambrell 17 563 Contact with Russell about senatorial issues / Russell as a dancer Mrs. Andretta, did you hear him make speeches on the Floor of the Senate during the time you were dating him? appropriations statute ; Civil Rights ; Department of Justice ; Floor of the Senate ; racial unrest ; state rights 17 893 Russell's social life Socially, I must say--I don't know whether you've had much in the way of comments about Dick's social life. Pago Pago ; Pearl Mesta ; Rive Gauche ; Shoreham ; tracheotomy 17 1395 Russell's memory / Russell's love of sports So many persons have commented about his prodigious memory. Civil War ; Civil War battlefields ; New Deal legislation ; Richard Courts ; Ty Cobb ; War of Northern Aggression 17 1691 Russell's affect and habits / Russell's views on the international situation leading to WWII I believe you were mentioning earlier to me and we might want to get this on this tape at this particular time, that whenever he felt a sense of embarrassment, you could always tell and would you please recount that at this time? cigarettes ; shrimp cocktail ; smoking ; World War 2 ; World War II ; WW2 17 2012 Russell's relationship with his family and Andretta's husband / Russell's failing health You indicated that he felt more relaxed around his brother-in-law Gene Stacy and his sister Ina. Congressional Record ; Department of Justice ; Ina Russell ; John Hopkins ; SAE ; Sal Andretta ; Senator David Gambrell ; Sigma Alpha Epsilon ; tracheotomy 17 2343 Final memories with Russell When was the last time you saw the Senator? emphysema ; Ina Russell ; Rive Gauche ; tracheotomy 17 2607 Reflections on Russell's legacy and character Do you think that his influence will be felt in the Senate in years to come? MacArthur-Truman hearings ; total recall ; U.S. Senate 17 CATES: I am with Mrs. Patricia Collins Andretta, and we are about to discuss her association over the years with the late Senator Richard Brevard Russell. Mrs. Andretta, would you mind just recounting how you happened to meet Senator Russell? Before you answer the question, I might just summarize what you told me a short time ago which would explain why you were in Washington. You, as I understand it, went to Agnes Scott College in Atlanta. You obtained a law degree from Emory University and you were doing legal aid work in Atlanta, as well as doing some other legal work, I think, for Smythe Gambrell, and you were able to come to Washington to work for a governmental agency. You might want to relate how that came about and then, maybe, say how you happened to meet Dick Russell. ANDRETTA: Well, I was talking with Smythe about the possibility of coming to Washington after, as I told you, I had had these interviews. Smythe said " ; Now, one of the things you are going to have to have, Pat, is political clearance" ; ; and I said, " ; Smythe, what in the world is political clearance? I never heard of it." ; " ; Well, he says, " ; you have to get the endorsement of your senators. This is very important. In those days, believe me, this was important. The whole set-up was very, very political. CATES: This was 1933? ANDRETTA: This was 1935. And I said, " ; Well, I don' ; t know a thing about that." ; " ; Well," ; Smythe said, " ; don' ; t worry about that, I' ; ll take care of all that." ; He said, " ; I' ; ll write Senator George," ; (Senator Walter George was the senior senator then) " ; and I' ; ll write Dick Russell. I know them both very well and they' ; ll get a letter, and this is what you need. This is required in the department before they can approve you for the job. That' ; s what the clearance is." ; CATES: Department of Justice? ANDRETTA: Department of Justice. So I thought nothing further of it, and one day Smythe called me and said he had a very nice letter from Senator George. Senator George would be happy to approve the employment of a constituent, Miss Patricia Collins, at the Department of Justice. We thought that was fine. And some time later, Smythe called me and he was terribly upset and disturbed. He said, " ; I' ; ve just had a letter from Senator Russell, and Senator Russell is holding back. He is not at all pleased about giving an endorsement." ; He said, " ; Do you know Senator Russell?" ; And I said, " ; No, I' ; ve never laid eyes on him. I don' ; t know him at all." ; He said, " ; Does anybody in your family know him?" ; And I said, " ; No. I know him, of course, as having been governor and a senator but we don' ; t know him." ; So he said, " ; Well, I can' ; t understand this letter." ; So, anyway, sometime later he did give a sort of grudging endorsement, at least sufficient, after Smythe had contacted him. It was sufficient to clear me with the Department of Justice especially in the light of the very gracious letter from Senator George. So I always had, you know, a little grudge against Senator Russell. I just didn' ; t understand why in the world he had acted this way when he didn' ; t even know me. Well, at a Georgia State Society dance that I went to sometime later-it must have been, in the light of later circumstances, it must have been sometime in 1937--I was introduced to Senator Russell, and I couldn' ; t help but recall the fact that he had written this letter when we got a chance to chat a little. I didn' ; t have much chance to chat because you can imagine how he was lionized at this big party. He was on of the principal guests and he was very, in those days, he was an extremely good-looking, slim man--you' ; ve seen pictures of him, I' ; m sure-and very pleasant, and very gay with the girls, all of whom were making a fuss over him. But when I had a chance I did say something to him about it, and, of course, he didn' ; t know a thing about it, he couldn' ; t recall. He hadn' ; t seen the letter. I guess maybe he had seen the letter but he didn' ; t recall much about it, at least he said he didn' ; t know anything about it. But sometime after that, he called me up and said he would like to talk to me about this letter. Well, it was a subject, of course, that we always had great fun about because I never let him forget it ; I was always teasing him about it. It seems that Leeman Anderson who was then his AA (Administrative Assistant) had gotten to the point where he was a little tired of giving out endorsements for the Senator for people that the Senator didn' ; t know. He said he thought politically this was just a losing game, that he was making anything out of this sort of thing, that he could be endorsing Republicans, for all he knew. And as far as I was concerned, of course, I hadn' ; t been a Republican or a Democrat at that time ; I had never voted in my life. At any rate, Leeman went in to the Senator one day and he took this letter that he had gotten. " ; For example," ; he said, " ; here' ; s this letter from Smythe Gambrell for a Miss Patricia Collins. Now," ; he says, " ; you don' ; t know Patricia Collins, Senator ; you just ought not to be giving out these endorsements like this all the time. And I think it' ; s time you put a stop to it." ; So Leeman had written this letter and had said that, whatever was in the letter, I don' ; t remember now, but it was anything but generous. Dick had, you know, Leeman handled all these affairs in the office and he didn' ; t pay much attention to it. Really, this was a kind of stepping-off stone for our early acquaintance. This is how we really got further than just an opening conversation, and then I saw a good bit of him after that. We went to the theater and we' ; d go out to the Shoreham an awful lot to dance. He liked to call at the last minute. Of course, he very seldom made engagements ahead of time and he would call and I always remember his kind of a call because he never said, " ; Hello, how are you?" ; or what not. I was then living at the Democratic Club on New Hampshire Avenue, and it was a very dignified and formal sort of place and we ate dinner at about oh, 7:30 in the evening, and he knew if he called about then he would catch me and the maid would come in and tell me that I was wanted on the phone. He would have to wait for me while I got to the phone, and, invariably, I would pick up the phone and he would say something like, " ; Well, I suppose caught you right in the midst of your dessert, did I?" ; He never said, " ; Hello, how are you?" ; or what not ; or else he would say, " ; How much of your dinner have you eaten?" ; And I would say how much I had, and he' ; d say, " ; Well, why don' ; t you come and have dinner or finish dinner with me?" ; And that was usually the way we got together. It would be an evening when he could get away from the Senate or else I remember lots of times I used to go down to the Senate. I was fascinated with the whole Senate procedure in those days, and I' ; d go down ; and there were times when he' ; d look up in the balcony and see me, and then we' ; d meet afterwards and do something, you know, go dancing or go out and have dinner or something like that. And these were usually the ways that we got together. But I think the Leeman Anderson incident was sort of interesting because, even at that point, he was so young in the ways of the status set up. He didn' ; t feel sufficiently strong about Leeman Anderson' ; s philosophy of this whole thing to stop him. He, as a matter of fact, these endorsements didn' ; t really mean too much. You know, they were-- CATES: Perfunctory, sort of? ANDRETTA: Perfunctory sort of things, and it wasn' ; t worth making the issue that he made with the Department of Justice. The Department of Justice was quite upset about this thing and it really wasn' ; t ...in later years, he wouldn' ; t have thought of doing a thing like that. CATES: But you did get the job? ANDRETTA: I did get the job, yes, as it worked out. CATES: Mrs. Andretta, did you hear him make speeches on the Floor of the Senate during the time you weredating him? ANDRETTA: Yes, although in those days he was not making speeches as much as he did later on. He was not as vocal in the Senate, I don' ; t believe in those days. I used to have the experience, though, of having him call me sometimes. I remember one time he called while I was in the library of the Department and asked me for--he was looking into some old appropriations statute or something, and he was puzzled about some legislative history or something. I just can' ; t quite remember what now. I remember going into some of the old reports and getting him some information that he relied on for some of his appropriations material. And he' ; d call like that every now and then and have something in mind. When he used to talk about things, I think I said to you earlier, he used to talk about things that happened in the Senate. He gave me a lot of priceless insights into his thinking about future things and his estimates of people. Time and again he' ; d say, " ; Now, I haven' ; t said this to a soul and I don' ; t want you to talk to a soul and I' ; ll deny it if you do tell it," ; you know, something along that line. CATES: Do you recall any of these that you feel like maybe you could recount now? ANDRETTA: Well, he used to worry a lot about the whole racial problem, of course. He was pretty--he kept the feeling he had for which he became famous actually that the states rights ideas that he had about the blacks, and the fact that they were really given better treatment in the South and that the North would one day have itself to thank for it. Often, when he would refer to the blacks who were coming up from the South, I think, he never wavered really in his attitude about this sort of thing, and many people thought this was a weakness in his thinking here. But he felt very strongly about it. CATES: I believe this would probably have been prior to 1938, is that correct? ANDRETTA: Yes. CATES: I believe that it was in the forties, or perhaps even fifties, that he set forth the idea of the possibility of paying the way of blacks back to Africa. Do you recall that? ANDRETTA: Yes. CATES: Did he hold those views at this time? ANDRETTA: He could have held those views. I don' ; t remember them as specifically as that ; and they would be consistent with views he did express, but I don' ; t know that I ever heard it as specifically as that. CATES: You mentioned the fact that you used to go dancing quite a bit. What kind of dancer was he? ANDRETTA: He was a, I guess, commonplace sort of dancer. I remember he enjoyed dancing, but there was nothing fancy about his dancing really. He just enjoyed the music and dancing and, now and again, we' ; d see somebody we knew, of course. I think he always had the feeling that he didn' ; t want to expose me to publicity or anything like that, but he wasn' ; t too anxious to be seen. I remember one night, though, that we went out to the Shoreham on the terrace. It was a summer evening, and we ran into some labor people. There were about four of them together and they were real blue-collar workers, I must say, and we had started off for an evening and thought we were going to have a pleasant evening together. And, of course, being Dick, the way he was, he invited them to sit at the table with us and" ; CATES: Did he know these people? ANDRETTA: Oh, he knew the men, yes, he knew them. They had been political friends in Georgia, I guess, and I remember him saying to me in a sign, " ; I' ; m sorry, my sweet, but we' ; re going to have to put up with them, but you can just see what you' ; d be up against if you were a senator' ; s wife." ; CATES: Did he like to do any particular type dance, like the Charleston? I know the Charleston was a little earlier than that. ANDRETTA: No. No. CATES: This is a continuation of my interview of April 27th, 1971, with Mrs. Patricia Collins Andretta. I believe we were talking about the type of dancing that the Senator preferred. Would you finish that statement, Mrs. Andretta? ANDRETTA: Well, I was just about to say that he was a very conservative dancer. Personally, I must say, I don' ; t know whether you' ; ve had much in the way of comment about Dick' ; s social life... CATES: No. ANDRETTA: And I do think I have some insight on that. CATES: All right. ANDRETTA: He used to say to me, and I think he continued this custom throughout his career in Washington, that he rarely ever accepted an invitation. When he first came here, he used to accept invitations and, of course, he was peppered with invitations, obviously. But he rarely ever accepted an invitation. He just ignored them. Perhaps at the office they did regret them for him, but these parties and what not--hostesses used to just wear themselves out trying to get Dick. It would be a real coup for them to get Dick Russell to a party and he never would go. He always used to say, " ; I refuse to be window dressing for any of these people and, as far as I' ; m concerned, it' ; s a waste of my time." ; In addition to that, socially he was really quite shy. I can remember occasions when we were out when he would say to me as I was sitting beside him, he' ; d say, " ; Now, what shall I do? Is this all right? Am I doing the right thing?" ; It was really genuine with him. And he used to, if anything, brag about the fact that " ; I' ; m just a country boy, you know." ; But, actually, he was very shy socially and even just recently when, I think I mentioned to you earlier that really the last time I ever saw him, when Ina was here, but as I said, I think it was about a year OF a year and a half ago-- CATES: Was that not in 1965 at the tracheotomy? ANDRETTA: No, oh, it was after ' ; 65. CATES: It was? ANDRETTA: Yes. It was well after ' ; 65. It was just about a year ; it couldn' ; t be more than a year and a half ago. The reason I think I remember that specifically, I remember the outfit I had on that afternoon and I think I' ; ve only had that two years, so it' ; s within that time. Ina and I had made a date to go to dinner. She was here with him and she called me during the afternoon and she said, " ; Dick says he wants to take us to dinner." ; And I said, " ; Fine." ; And she came on out here and Dick' ; s driver had brought him and we met him at the door and when we got in the car, Dick said, " ; Now where do you girls want to go." ; And I suggested a couple of places and I said, Well, were over in this part of town, why dont we go somewhere in Georgetown?" ; And Dick said, " ; It' ; s all right with me, I just don' ; t know the places, where shall we go?" ; And I said, " ; Well, have you ever been to the Rive Gauche? Let' ; s go to the Rive Gauche." ; And he said, " ; It' ; s all right with me." ; So I said, " ; It may be difficult to get a table there but," ; I said, " ; You won' ; t have any trouble, Dick." ; And he said, " ; Well, you tell me what to do." ; And I said, " ; Well, when we get there, you just go in and you say to Jeanine" ; (who is the gal who' ; s supposed to know everybody in Washington), I said, " ; You just say to Jeanine that you are Senator Russell, and could you have a table for three." ; So when we got there, he got out and went in and came back and he said, " ; Yes, she says we can have a table for three." ; So we went in. Oh, we really had a very pleasant time except that it was so sad to see Dick, because he was so self-conscious about his coughing. He was terribly afraid he was going to start coughing. And he ate very little. It was so unlike Dick, you know. I' ; ve known him when he ate everything. He had a little ; I know he had a little glass of sherry. Of course, he couldn' ; t smoke or anything, but it was typical of him to be hesitant and so afraid he would overstep, always afraid he was going to overstep, you know, to pull some boo-boo or something like that. For a person as sophisticated politically as he was, it was unusual, you know, but I don' ; t think anybody would contradict that, that he was really shy socially and didn' ; t really care for social occasions very much. He really didnt. CATES: Do you know of any occasion where he was embarrassed by lack of knowledge of what to do ad when to do it in a social situation? ANDRETTA: No, I dont really recall any time that he" ; he was always up to anything, but he would hardly ever push himself. It was a part of what you said earlier--he was a very modest person, extremely modest. CATES: Do you know if Pearl Mesta ever invited him to a party? ANDRETTA: Yes, I' ; m sure she did. And he told me about Pearl one time. I remember he said, his expression was, " ; She' ; s a good old gal and always has good food and good liquor and good entertainment." ; But he never--he went there a few times and he, of course, could have gone times that I didn' ; t know about. But certainly in the early days, he was still--she was a hostess many years back, of course, the Truman days and so forth. He expressed himself as not being really interested in that sort of thing at all. He used to send flowers when he declined invitations. I don' ; t know whether he kept that up or not. CATES: Just as a small gesture? ANDRETTA: Yes, just as a gesture. But I think the hostesses caught on to the fact that it was impossible to get Dick to accept an invitation. CATES: You have indicated when you were dating him back in the middle ' ; 30' ; s, that you would go dancing. What would you do maybe on other dates? Would you ever go and take in a movie? This is before television. ANDRETTA: We mostly dined out because his dates, as you say, dates with me, were usually unexpected because he never knew when he was going to be through, or they were late in the evening when he was able to get away. Sometimes I used to go down to the office with him if he had things to do and I' ; d go down to the office with him. That was seldom but I did do that, I remember. Or else, we' ; d go to Ina' ; s. He and Gene and Ina and I used to go out a lot together. I remember one funny occasion when we all were, all four together, and this was quite a conversation piece with all of us. Gene and I had a great argument about the islands that are spelled P-a-g-o P-a-g-o, you know? CATES: Pago Pago? ANDRETTA: And Gene just faced me down that the pronunciation of those was Pango Pango. And I said, " ; It can' ; t be, Gene. How can it be Pango Pango when it' ; s only P-a-g-o?" ; And Dick got the greatest kick out of our argument. And Gene' ; s estimation was that when the missionaries went out there they didn' ; t have an " ; n" ; in their printing operation and that it just came to be known as P-a-g-o, although it was pronounced Pango Pango. So we had a big bet up, and Dick was very interested and he was going to come out on top. And, of course, I lost to Gene. CATES: You did? ANDRETTA: Yes. Apparently, well, he had some proof that it was pronounced Pango Pango so I lost my bet ; and Dick always used to tease me about that-that I had gotten myself in over my head. CATES: So many persons have commented about his prodigious memory. Would you comment about that? ANDRETTA: Yes. He did have a marvelous memory, he really did. A marvelous memory. I don' ; t know that I can remember any startling and exciting evidence of it, but he did have a wonderful memory, I think. I can attest to that. CATES: Not only as far as names and faces would be concerned but just a" ; ANDRETTA: It was part of his political savvy, yes, and it did him a world of good. He did know people. Even aside from names and faces, as you say, he did have a wonderful memory. But history, I remember one of our, oh, several of our trips around the battlefields--you know, he was quite a Civil War buff. I' ; m sure others have spoken of that in their-- CATES: Yes, but I' ; d like for you to comment. Did he ever tease about calling it the Civil War? ANDRETTA: No, he didn' ; t. I don' ; t remember that he did. But he' ; d take me around and show me the battlefields and his memory of the personalities of the generals and everything, you know. He had read so much that he was extremely interesting and he could get very, wax enthusiastic when he got into that sort of thing. He loved to talk about it, and loved to commiserate with the soldiers and, you know, go through the battles. CATES: Did he ever talk to you about the New Deal legislation in which he was participating in the Senate in the ' ; 30s? ANDRETTA: Well, I don' ; t recall. You know I' ; m sure he did, but I don' ; t really remember too much about the theory of the legislation or that sort of thing. I don' ; t know. CATES: Did he ever tease you about being a lady lawyer? ANDRETTA: Well, as I said, as I said sometime earlier, he wasn' ; t too anxious to advertise the fact that I was a lawyer. You know, the most he used to tease me was he' ; d tease me about being smart. He was always talking about how smart I was and, you know, I sort of took it with a grain of salt ; that this was just his way of teasing. He used to tease me an awful lot and say to other people, smartest gal I ever knew, smartest gal I ever knew." ; That was a great expression of his. CATES: Did he ever take you to a baseball game? I know people have said that in later life he was very enthusiastic over baseball. ANDRETTA: A baseball enthusiast. No, because he wasn' ; t really here as much then in the summer, you know~ I don' ; t think I ever went to a baseball game with him. CATES: I just didn' ; t know, maybe, I' ; m not really much of a baseball fan, where Ty Cobb played. I think he played at one time for Detroit but they, you know, jump around from team to team, and I believe he was a personal friend of Ty Cobb' ; s. ANDRETTA: Yes, I think he was, too. CATES: And I was just wondering if you had ever met any, maybe Ty Cobb or any other famous personalities through Senator Russell? Do you recall any of these--? ANDRETTA: No, I don' ; t really recall experiences like that. There could have been, but I just don' ; t recall. It comes to mind just at the moment that Dick [Richard] Courts was up here one time when he had a [one word inaudible] meeting with Dick Courts. Do you know Dick? CATES: Was he with Courts & ; Co.? ANDRETTA: Yes, he was the senior partner. CATES: He' ; s deceased now, isn' ; t he? ANDRETTA: Yes, but he was a great friend of Dick Russell. CATES: He was a great tennis enthusiast, was he not ; and if it' ; s the same Courts that I read about in the paper-- ANDRETTA: Yes, he was. Maylon actually was the more famous of the tennis enthusiasts and that was his younger brother. CATES: There was one Courts who died actually on the tennis courts in Atlanta. ANDRETTA: Is that so? CATES: During a set of tennis. I was just wondering if, perhaps during this period, if he did maybe introduce you, maybe not necessarily to sports personalities but just to famous personalities-- ANDRETTA: Well, it would more likely be people in the Senate. I met people working in the Senate and we' ; d run into people, you know. Actually, we didn' ; t mix too much in big groups or anything because of the very reasons I have mentioned. Our get-togethers were unexpected in terms of his responsibilities and they were mostly getting together with Ina and Gene ; he was more relaxed with them than anybody. He was always very--Ina was closer to him than any of the rest of his family, and we' ; d go out there and cook a steak, you know, and we were with them, I' ; d say, as much as anybody. CATES: I believe you were mentioning earlier to me and we might want to get this on this tape at this particular time. When he felt a sense of embarrassment, you could always tell and would you please recount that at this time? ANDRETTA: Well, he' ; d sort of cover it up by being over-- CATES: Talkative? ANDRETTA: Talkative, yes, and kidding. He would always be, he would kid someone a great deal, you know, poke fun when he felt sort of as if there was a little embarrassment about anything. He would pass it off or cover it up by kidding. Well, of course, having grown up in a big family, for one thing, kidding came very easily to him. He enjoyed making something out of nothing, actually to the point of kidding someone. CATES: Someone described his wit as being so dry that a lot of times that the person, unlss they were listening very intently and was aware of it, that they would escape his humor? Would you say that that' ; s true? ANDRETTA: Well, no, I always felt that his humor was sharp and incisive. I don' ; t think I ever had any trouble following it. CATES: At this particular time, was he a heavy cigarette smoker? ANDRETTA: Yes. CATES: How many packs did he smoke a day? ANDRETTA: Well, I can' ; t say I' ; m sure, but my estimate would be that he used to smoke about two packs a day. He was pretty much a chain smoker really. CATES: Was this due to maybe nervous energy? ANDRETTA: He was constantly flipping a cigarette, constantly flipping a cigarette. Whenever there was a hesitation at all, he would light a cigarette. Always, always smoking cigarettes. He seemed to enjoy them and he smoked and he inhaled deeply. CATES: So you think maybe this could be attributed to his social insecurity maybe in social situations? ANDRETTA: I don' ; t know. I think he was a tense individual in all respects. I think he had a lot going on in his mind all the time and he had very few outlets for confiding. I don' ; t know who he--these problems in the Senate, I don' ; t know who he talked over those with. Maybe there were people in his office but I always had the feeling he contained himself pretty much and worked things out in his mind, and I think he had a lot of tension. This was just my impression. CATES: I don' ; t mean to imply that he was a heavy drinker, but everybody has a certain brand that they do indulge. How did he like the--did he take an after or before the meal cocktail? ANDRETTA: Yes. He got a highball before the meal. And he had a favorite meal ; practically every time I ever saw him he had the same meal. CATES: What was that? ANDRETTA: Shrimp cocktail, steak-- CATES: Salad, maybe? ANDRETTA: Salad, yes. But that shrimp cocktail, he loved the shrimp cocktail and a steak. CATES: Would he take his coffee with the meal or after the meal? ANDRETTA: I just don' ; t know. I think he' ; d take it after the meal. I just don' ; t remember. CATES: And he loved a dessert, did he not? ANDRETTA: Yes, yes, he had a sweet tooth. But he loved a highball or two before his meal. He enjoyed it very much. This was a way of relaxing for him. CATES: We' ; ve been talking now about the middle ' ; 30s. And you indicated that in later life you didn' ; t see him really too much. Did you have a chance to observe his reaction to the international situation leading up to World War II? Did he ever express concern to you about that? ANDRETTA: Oh, yes. CATES: Do you recall anything maybe he said specifically about either the European situation or the Asiatic situation, as relates to our country or is related to our country? ANDRETTA: No, I couldn' ; t remember that well enough to really make any statement on it. I can remember myself going home in those years and talking about the gathering storm, as has been described, and I can remember my mother saying to me, " ; The people down here are not interested in that. If you pick that up in Washington, just don' ; t bring it down here because nobody thinks there is going to be a war here." ; And I would say, " ; Well, mother, there are men in uniform in Washington and it' ; s clear that it' ; s something we' ; re preparing for." ; And she said, " ; Well, people just don' ; t want to hear about it, don' ; t want to talk about it." ; Now, I know I was gathering some of that from my conversations with Dick and with the feelings picked up, but I just don' ; t remember things that he said specifically enough to quote them or to describe them. I' ; m sure he was terribly concerned. CATES: You indicated that he felt more relaxed around his brother-in-law Gene Stacy and his sister Ina. How would he relax, kind of unwind? ANDRETTA: Well, he' ; d just walk in the door somehow or other and take off his jacket and stand around the kitchen and watch Ina cook and have a drink and just tease and tell jokes and stories. CATES: He wouldn' ; t bring his legislative problems there? ANDRETTA: Oh, no. He very seldom did. He very seldom talked about anything very serious under those circumstances. He' ; d talk about the family and down home and who' ; d been here recently. CATES: I believe that you said that, in later life, that actually your husband, Sal Andretta, who was, I believe you said, the Assistant-- ANDRETTA: The Assistant Attorney General in charge of Administration in the Department of Justice. CATES: Really had more to do with him in later life than you did. Do you know any particular amusing or interesting incidents that happened during the course of these conversations that your husband had with the Senator about business? ANDRETTA: No, I really don' ; t. That' ; s sort of remote from me. I just don' ; t think about it now. I don' ; t think of anything during those years. Sal had, of course, as everybody did ; Sal had great admiration for Dick. He thought he was a great man and an outstanding man as to, you know, responsibility and integrity and a man that you could take his word and so forth, as everybody had, he' ; s got that reputation with everyone. It' ; s very evident all through his life and, as you say, will grow. CATES: When did you and your husband become aware of the fact that the Senator' ; s health was really deteriorating? ANDRETTA: I think it was through the papers. CATES: Through the papers? ANDRETTA: Yes, through the newspapers. He became ill just about the same time my husband became ill. CATES: When was that? ANDRETTA: It was the same thing ; they both had a tracheotomy at just about the same time. CATES: That' ; d be ' ; 65. ANDRETTA: Yes. Sal went into the hospital March 1, 1965, and I don' ; t remember just when Dick' ; s tracheotomy was, but I remember, I think I wrote Ina a little note at that time and told her that I was terribly concerned to hear about him and it was not too long after that that Sal' ; s condition worsened to the point where, he was then at the time at John Hopkins in Baltimore, and he had to have a tracheotomy. Of course, a tracheotomy had seemed remote to me when I heard about Dick. I wasn' ; t altogether sure, to tell you the truth, just how, what the effect was but I certainly realized after that, my husband had to have two tracheotomies and I think Dick did, too. CATES: You mean Senator Russell had two? ANDRETTA: It seems to me he did, I' ; m not sure ; but the first one he, of course, he was fortunate in being able to get over it pretty much and he was able to get his breathing back. CATES: When your husband passed away, did Senator Russell contact you or write you a note? ANDRETTA: Yes, he wrote to me. I had a very sweet letter from him. Another odd thing about our relationship was that in the early, early years, I used to follow the Congressional Record religiously when I was interested in all the things Dick did. It got so I could just go down the page and pick up Russell without any trouble at all. Of course, he put me on his list. I was R 76 on his list at the Congressional Record. It was only the other day that that Record stopped. I' ; d gotten it all these years, R 76. CATES: What did R 76 stand for? ANDRETTA: I would guess that was Russell, you see, on the list of the senators who, they' ; re entitled to a certain number of copies of the Congressional Record to send to constituents. This was, you know, gratis. I don' ; t know how many of those copies he had, 125, 150 or something like that, but my number was R 76. I guess when the Senator [David] Gambrell moved in just recently, why he refurbished the Record. I was getting it some time after he came in, but Dick never wavered that all those years. I always got this. Interestingly, Ina says the will has not all been worked out yet but there' ; s a remembrance for me in the will, something. I was asking her if it was the SAE (Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity) pin, because he had said years ago that he was going to mark the SAE pin for me, but I think he gave that to one of his nephews who was an SAE. CATES: I see. When was the last time you saw the Senator? ANDRETTA: That time that I told you about when we went out to dinner. CATES: You went out to dinner about a year and a half ago? ANDRETTA: Yes. I talked to Ina, of course, at the last, too. I talked to her regularly while he was in the hospital and, of course, she told me that before he died he had gone down to 118 lbs. I wrote him a little note while he was in the hospital, but I never went up there and saw him. Really he was too sick ; desperately, desperately ill. I mean, far more so than I think is generally known. CATES: Would you say that he was a lonely man? ANDRETTA: Yes, I would. I certainly would and he lived a Spartan life, actually. To see his quarters you' ; d never think, you know, certainly not his home quarters and I used to see his home quarters a lot. He was a very orderly, neat and orderly person, and there was very little around to give the idea that he, that he -- he never strewed things around at all. He was always very systematic but it was a Spartan type of life that he led. I remember going out to the -- I guess it was the restaurant in that hotel out on 15th Street with a group of people one night and I saw him sitting over in the corner eating his dinner and reading the paper, and I didn' ; t interrupt him at all. I didn' ; t even go over and speak to him ; so it was typical to see him like that, sitting in a restaurant by himself, eating his dinner and reading. CATES: Would this have been Donnelly' ; s, the seafood place? ANDRETTA: No, no, it was out 16th Street at one of those big hotel apartment complexes up, I forget right now. I remember Ina saying though -- I think she had been up with him after, really after his illness set in, sometime since ' ; 65, when she' ; s been with him -- and this night that we went out to dinner when we went over to the Rive Gauche, she kept saying, " ; Dick, you ought to get out, you ought to go out and eat." ; And he' ; d say, " ; I just don' ; t want to. I just don' ; t feel like going out by myself." ; He said, " ; I go down to the Army-Navy Club some but I don' ; t like it." ; And she said, Well, how about Pat now? How about going out with Pat?" ; " ; Well," ; he said, " ; All right, if she' ; ll select the place." ; But actually he didn' ; t remember to pick that up. He just didn' ; t feel up to it. He was embarrassed about his coughing and he had very little appetite. I think her concern was that he eats something actually. So, as it ended up, she stayed up here with him most of the time to try and get him to eat. CATES: I was not really aware that Senator Russell had had this tracheotomy or that his emphysema was as bad as it was until I saw the three-hour documentary, and I didn' ; t really see all the three hours, but I was shocked when I heard him speak and the effort with which he spoke. I don' ; t know if that was so much due to the tracheotomy or the emphysema, it was probably the emphysema. Were you overly concerned when you would see him, because you didn' ; t see him too often in his later years and could you noticeably see the deterioration? ANDRETTA: Yes. I remember when he came by that evening and he picked Ina and me up for that dinner and he stood there in the door as we walked out, held the door open for us and I was so conscious of the fact that he looked so thin. He was thin, and he was a big-broad-shouldered man, and he just, he sort of shrunk. CATES: Do you think that his influence will be felt in the Senate in years to come? ANDRETTA: It' ; s hard to tell, really, isn' ; t it? He was certainly a major influence all the time he was in there. In ways that, I guess, senators really understand the best because I think he was a counselor and advisor and he was responsible for keeping things.his judgment was so much felt that he kept things at an even keel in crisis, for instance, like the MacArthur hearing and that sort of thing. He was very influential in steering to a safe harbor. Whether his philosophies, if that' ; s what you mean, will be influential, it' ; s just hard to tell. I just don' ; t know. CATES: I know that you really have indicated that you didn' ; t see him too much during that time period, but do you have any special knowledge about the MacArthur-Truman hearings, that he conducted the hearings and, also in 1952, his being a candidate, a possible candidate for the Democrats, whether or not he' ; d ever discussed that with you in maybe later years? ANDRETTA: Oh, no, no. I only knew what I read in the paper of those things. CATES: This might be a difficult question for you to answer as far as maybe putting it in a few words, but what do you think was his most outstanding personality trait, or characteristic? ANDRETTA: Well, he just struck you as a Rock of Gibraltar, really. He was the sort of person that other people felt was the last word in integrity and sound judgment. He was the sort of person who inspired confidence and if he counseled you, you felt you' ; d had the best counsel there was. I think that was the impression you got of him, and that he was impersonal, completely impersonal in his judgments and wouldn' ; t pull his punches. Even in his gracious, courteous, gentlemanly way, he would still talk straight from the shoulder. I think that' ; s the impression that I would have of him. He did retain, as far as he personally was concerned, his own feelings so that I think it was difficult to get his feelings about his personal life and about himself personally. But I think he was willing to give and to help. He was very helpful, and I think he was a person, as I say, of great judgment, very good judgment, and far-seeing judgment. CATES: Of course, you have indicated your meeting him for the first time, and the fact that he had been governor and was senator and, of course, I' ; m sure you must have had an image of Senator Richard Brevard Russell. Did that image change after you got to know him? ANDRETTA: No, no, it really didn' ; t. CATES: It didn' ; t? ANDRETTA: No, I was always fascinated with him. He was a fascinating person to be with and I really never tired of being with him. There was a, oh, a great period of adjustment when I didn' ; t see him again, and I missed seeing him. He was always entertaining to me and, of course, he was so smart, he was a terribly smart man and stimulating, very stimulating. And my impression of him didn' ; t change, really. I had great respect for him. CATES: I was talking to someone who was analyzing his intellect and his ability to have total recall almost and he described it this way--that he did have this ability of total recall. Other people have the ability of total recall, but Senator Russell had the ability to categorize and classify everything, to put it in the right slot and when he needed it, it came out. Would you say that that would be pretty accurate? ANDRETTA: Well, I don' ; t know, I don' ; t know that I could say that now after all these years. I' ; m not sure I recall that particular quality, but I do remember his amazing memory, and a very competent person. He used to describe himself, though, in that connection. He always used to say that he, he' ; d say, " ; I' ; m not a very smart person, I' ; m a superficial person. I' ; m very superficial. I' ; m not profound." ; He had great admiration for brains, great admiration for brains, and really pushed himself to study. He spent a great deal of his life, you know, reading and studying and becoming proficient and expert in things. He had great patience with reading. Of course, he made himself a parliamentarian par excellence. CATES: Do you think he meant by that that he didn' ; t have deep thoughts? ANDRETTA: Well, I don' ; t know whether he -- I don' ; t think he was fishing when he said that. But I think he had the feeling that possibly other people seemed smarter to him than he was. CATES: And do you think that maybe the reason that he drove himself and wanted to become almost a perfectionist was to kind of over-compensate for what he considered not being as smart as the next person? ANDRETTA: Yes, yes, because he did have great admiration for brains. CATES: Mrs. Andreta, I know you' ; ve been real patient talking all this time with me and I don' ; t know really how much we' ; ve got on tape now as far as time is concerned ; but I know that weve been chatting for a number of hours here, either on tape or off the tape. I was just wondering before we close if you have anything that you would like to add in any area of your relationship with the Senator over the years and your friendship with him? ANDRETTA: Well, I think we' ; ve covered pretty much the gamut of my memories now because, as I said, there is a great gap in my knowledge of the Senator from the late ' ; 30s and early' ; 40s until really recently when I saw him again. So I don' ; t think there' ; s anything else particularly that I want to add. CATES: Well, I want to thank you again on behalf of the University of Georgia and the Richard Russell Foundation for this very excellent interview on your part. ANDRETTA: Well, you are very welcome. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL216RBROH-012.xml RBRL216RBROH-012.xml
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52 minutes
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with Patricia Collins Andretta Dwinwell Butler, April 27, 1971
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RBRL216RBROH-012
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Patricia Collins Andretta
Hugh Cates
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audio
oral histories
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sound
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Sports
World War, 1939-1945
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1971-04-27
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United States
OHMS
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Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project
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United States--Officials and employees
State governments--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
Description
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The Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project consists of 175 oral history interviews relating to the personal and political life of Richard B. Russell. Interviewees include members of the Russell family, his staff and interns, other senators and public figures, and friends. The primary interviewer was Hugh Cates, a public relations manager at Southern Bell and secretary of the Russell Foundation (1977-1981). Most of the interviews were recorded between 1971 and 1979, but the majority during 1971 after Senator Russell's death. Other interviewers include: William Stueck, Karen Kelly, Barboura Raesly, Robert G. Stephens, Jr., Dwight L. Freshley, Tom Jackson, Angus Hepburn, and Russell Library staff. Interviews provide insight into Senator Russell's political career as State Representative, Governor, and U.S. Senator, his views on various topics such as civil rights and Vietnam, and his personality and family life.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=23&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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1971-2002
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Oral histories
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RBRL216RBROH
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Georgia
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Transcript, 14 pages
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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RBRL216RBROH-076
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Interview with Vince Dooley, March 11, 1971
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1971-03-11
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Vincent Dooley
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Interview with Vince Dooley, Head Football Couch at the University of Georgia. Topics include anecdotes of Senator Russell; Lyndon Baines Johnson; Kennedy Family; Russell's knowledge of sports and football and interest in UGA Bulldogs; Vietnam Conflict, 1961-1975.
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Sports
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United States
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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oral histories
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sound
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
United States--Officials and employees
State governments--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
The Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project consists of 175 oral history interviews relating to the personal and political life of Richard B. Russell. Interviewees include members of the Russell family, his staff and interns, other senators and public figures, and friends. The primary interviewer was Hugh Cates, a public relations manager at Southern Bell and secretary of the Russell Foundation (1977-1981). Most of the interviews were recorded between 1971 and 1979, but the majority during 1971 after Senator Russell's death. Other interviewers include: William Stueck, Karen Kelly, Barboura Raesly, Robert G. Stephens, Jr., Dwight L. Freshley, Tom Jackson, Angus Hepburn, and Russell Library staff. Interviews provide insight into Senator Russell's political career as State Representative, Governor, and U.S. Senator, his views on various topics such as civil rights and Vietnam, and his personality and family life.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=23&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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1971-2002
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL216RBROH
Coverage
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Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL216RBROH-143/ohms
OHMS Object Text
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5.3 Interview with Thomas F. Eagleton, April 27, 1971 RBRL216RBROH-143 RBRL216RBROH Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Thomas F. Eagleton Hugh Cates oral history 1:|13(10)|25(3)|39(1)|50(8)|61(13)|78(12)|86(13)|105(7)|117(9)|134(4)|148(4)|165(10)|177(14)|192(2)|203(1)|212(9)|223(14) 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_n85d18g7& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_vieafw0a" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 22 Senator Russell's seniority and prestige Senator, would you mind promptly starting by recalling a little incident which happened in the private dining room of the U.S. Senate... 17th amendment ; Amendment XVII ; confirmations ; G. Harrold Carswell ; nomination ; SCOTUS ; Supreme Court 17 467 Courtesy calls with Senator Russell: talking baseball, age, and campaigns Senator Eagleton, when you came to the Senate, did you have an occasion to drop by and pay your respects to Senator Russell? canvassing ; generation gap ; Stuart Symington 17 829 Senator Russell's credibility and influence Senator, do you know of any instance where he had swayed a vote or changed a vote in the Senate? addresses ; character ; personality ; speaking 17 CATES: This is Hugh Cates, April 27, 1971. I' ; m in the office of U.S. Senator Thomas F. Eagleton who is a Democrat of Missouri. I' ; m here for the purpose of discussing with him any association or impressions he might have about the late Senator Richard Brevard Russell. Senator, would you mind probably starting by recounting a little incident which happened in the private dining room of the U.S. Senate concerning the appointment of Judge [George] Harrold Carswell to the U.S. Supreme Court? EAGLETON: Yes, I' ; d be glad to. I remember the day very well. I can' ; t recall the precise date but that can be readily ascertained. It was the day that President [Richard Milhous] Nixon sent up to the Senate the nomination of G. Harrold Carswell for the Supreme Court of the United States. I was--there' ; s a private dining room on the first floor of the Capitol building to which senators, and senators only, are admitted. There are two big tables there: one' ; s by tradition the Democratic table ; one' ; s the Republican table. Further by tradition, the head seat, as it were, at the Democratic table was Senator Russell' ; s seat. I mean there was no sign there or plaque or anything, but it was just understood that that' ; s where Senator Russell always sat, because he was not only the senior senator in terms of longevity in the Senate, he was the senior senator in terms of respect of his colleagues. To digress a minute, I' ; d say the two senator' ; s senators in my brief tenure here that are held in universal esteem--Richard Russell of Georgia ; John Sherman Cooper of Kentucky, the Republican. Those were the two men that all other senators--young and old, liberal or conservative--those were the two men to whom everybody looked up to. I mean that' ; s just how highly they were regarded. Well, anyway, this day the word came in that this gentleman named Carswell had been nominated ; and I' ; m sitting there along with, oh, like--I think [Philip Aloysius] Phil Hart of Michigan was there and several other senators. At one end of the table as I said was Senator Russell ; at the other end of the table was Senator Spessard Holland of Florida, who had served as you know I think twenty-four years in the United States Senate--he just retired after the last election, didn' ; t run for re-election--and someone--it wasn' ; t me as I recall--but someone said, " ; Who' ; s Carswell?" ; I think Holland spoke first ; he said, " ; Oh, he' ; s from my state ; he' ; s on the Court of Appeals down there. He' ; s a very able young man ; he' ; ll make a good justice." ; Then there might have been a pause or something ; then Senator Russell spoke up--and when Senator Russell spoke at that table, again, because of the esteem in which he was held, even if you were engaging in a little conversation with the fellow next to you, you stopped and listened--and he said something to this effect, this isn' ; t a precise quote, but he said, " ; Yes," ; he said, " ; I know Harrold Carswell," ; or G. Harrold Carswell. He said, " ; He used to live in my state." ; He said, " ; He' ; s a very fine young man." ; He said, " ; I knew his family well ; I knew his daddy well." ; He may have added, or maybe I learned later on, that G. Harrold Carswell' ; s father, I believe, ran against Senator Russell maybe for governor or some office in the state of Georgia back many years ago. And he went on to say what a fine family they were and that he, too, thought Harrold Carswell would make a fine justice of the U.S. Supreme Court. I inferred from that little colloquy that took place there, and I think a couple of other senators did, that the genesis of the Carswell nomination-maybe my inference is unjustified, but I inferred from it--came from these two senior senators, Holland of Florida and Russell of Georgia. It would be my guess [they] submitted Carswell' ; s name to the President of the United States, and President Nixon, of course, held Senator Russell in the highest esteem. You see there' ; s--we' ; re partisan in the Senate ; a bunch of us are Democrats and a bunch of us are Republicans, but there are some individuals that transcend those party labels--Russell was definitely, is in that category ; as I said, [so is] John Sherman Cooper. They just--they' ; re just--well, let me put it another way: When I came here--I' ; m a new senator ; in 1968, I was elected--Senator [Michael Joseph [Mike]] Mansfield lectured to the new senators--not lectured, but talked to the new senators--and he said, " ; Now listen, gentlemen," ; he said, " ; everybody in the Senate' ; s got one vote ; everybody in the Senate' ; s got the right to speak ; everybody in the Senate' ; s equal." ; I' ; ve often said to myself after that, " ; Yes, we' ; re all equal, but there' ; s some that are a little more equal" ; ; and Senator Russell was one of those who was just a little more equal because of his ability, his knowledge, his grasp of the parliamentary process, many other reasons. CATES: Senator Eagleton, how did Senator Russell take the defeat of Senator ; Judge Carswell? Did you have a later occasion, maybe, to discuss this with him, or see how he reacted to it? EAGLETON: Gee, I don' ; t know specifically ; I can give you an impression. CATES: All right. EAGLETON: Some senators, those who were very vocal on the [Senate] floor on his behalf--especially Senator [Roman Lee] Hruska, Senator [Robert Joseph] Dole of Kansas, and Senator [Edward John] Gurney of Florida--they did most of the speaking on the floor during the Carswell debate. Senator Dole particularly took the defeat, well, in a rather ungentlemanly way. I know Bob Dole ; he' ; s what we call in politics a gut fighter. He' ; s a free swinger and he was very uptight about the defeat of Carswell for the Supreme Court. My recollection of Senator Russell is that true to his gentlemanly nature--sure he wanted to win ; he was for Carswell ; he made no bones about it, but the real pros--was Russell--[Warren Grant] Magnuson. Magnuson lost, for instance, on the SST [supersonic transport] vote. They' ; d learned what some of us young fellows just--it will take us time to learn, me included, that--what' ; s the old saying--You live to fight another day. As strong as Russell believed in Carswell, or Magnuson believed in the SST--and you -fight hard, but you fight in a way that so the next issue that comes down the line you hasn' ; t left a lot of scars, residual scars. That' ; s really political statesmanship in the Senate. That' ; s what sets Russell and Magnuson and these guys apart, and Cooper. That' ; s what we younger guys who lose our tempers and say things that, in the heat of debate, that we regret--that' ; s what' ; s going to take us ten or twenty years to learn. Perhaps, it took Russell that long to learn it. I don' ; t know. When he came here, in 19--what was it--1930? CATES: l932. EAGLETON: 1932, he was a very young man. I would just suspect that in some of those early years between, say, 1932 and 1936 or 1938, maybe he made a mistake or two that he later regretted, but he learned. He sure learned. CATES: Senator Eagleton, when you came to the Senate did you have an occasion to drop by and pay your respects to Senator Russell? EAGLETON: Oh yes, yes. I was told by my senior colleague, Senator [Stuart] Symington, who' ; s been here about twenty years--before I came here, we had lunch together in St. Louis, and he said, " ; Now, I don' ; t know what your time schedule is, whether you' ; ll have a chance to call on every senator." ; He said, " ; In due course you will ; you' ; ll either see them on the floor of the Senate or in the barber shop or in a committee room ; introduce yourself and tell them who you are, but," ; he said, " ; there are a few," ; he said, " ; that I would go--by all means, make an appointment and just go by and see in person" ; ; and of course, on that list he said, " ; By all means, go to see Senator Russell, see Senator Mansfield, see Senator [Allen Joseph] Ellender." ; He said, " ; Make personal calls on those three gentlemen if no others," ; --and I did. I remember the day very well. I showed up at the appointed time ; I was a little nervous, frankly, meeting you know one of the giants of the Senate, and he said, " ; Sit down." ; He said, " ; How old are you?" ; I said--by--I think I was then thirty-nine, and he said, " ; Well," ; he said, " ; I was" ; --I think he said thirty-three, or what was his age? CATES: About thirty-two. EAGLETON: " ; About thirty-two or three," ; he said, " ; when I came to the Senate, so" ; he said, " ; you' ; re not too young to be in the Senate," ; which, you know, put me at ease. I don' ; t know how it came into the conversation, but we--it turns out [that] both of us were devout baseball fans. My father used to own part of the St. Louis Cardinals back some years ago, and I used to spend every March in Florida going to school as a kid at spring training time and I' ; m what' ; s called a baseball nut ; and I say reverently of Senator Russell [that] he was a baseball nut, and I use that word in the nicest sense. So, we spent about ten minutes talking ; he talked about the Atlanta Braves and [Henry] Hank Aaron, and I talked about the Cardinals and [Robert] Bob Gibson and [Louis Clark] Lou Brock and he really knew is baseball good--I mean he know so-and-so was as we say a sucker for a curve ball and a shortstop wasn' ; t very good going to his left. He loved baseball and he knew it, and so we--you know, when there is an age gap--you know, when you hear about the generation gap, well, there is a generation gap. After all, here was a thirty-nine-year-old freshman senator talking to a man in his late sixties who' ; d been in the Senate--well, he came to the Senate three or four years after I was born--and so, how do you establish--quote--" ; a common bond?" ; Well, baseball became our common bond. I wouldn' ; t, I don' ; t masquerade as a close, intimate friend of Senator Russell' ; s. There was this age difference, of course, but when we encountered each other, whether it was the dining room table or on the floor, either he' ; d bring up or I' ; d bring up some item in the baseball news and we' ; d kick it around ; and then, of course, nothing I' ; d rather--next to politics, there' ; s nothing I' ; d rather talk about than baseball. CATES: Senator Eagleton, in looking at your biographical data sheet, I see that you were elected Circuit Attorney of the city of St. Louis, Attorney General of Missouri and Lieutenant Governor of Missouri, and at the time of your election to these three public offices, you were the youngest man ever elected to such offices in the history of Missouri. Now, as we have intimated and talked about here, Senator Russell went to the [Georgia] House of Representatives when he was twenty-one. He stayed there approximately ten years. He was speaker of the House for the last four years and he was elected governor about age thirty. Did you ever talk, or compare political experiences, along this line? EAGLETON: Well, in this meeting that I mentioned earlier, this courtesy call that I-- CATES: Right. EAGLETON: --paid on Senator Russell, part of the conversation was how he started out as a young man in politics. I don' ; t recall him mentioning that he--being in the House at age twenty-one. I do specifically recall him saying he was governor in his early thirties or at the age of thirty, and he described how he crisscrossed the state of Georgia almost house-to-house as it were campaigning for governor. As I recall, he told me that his father had been on the Supreme Court of Georgia, that the name Russell was a well-known name, but Richard, young Richard Russell specifically, maybe, wasn' ; t too well-known. The family was, yes, but maybe he wasn' ; t ; so, he said, " ; I had to overcome that fact of being young and not too well-known," ; and he said it took intense, personal campaigning. He told me of an incident where he went down a back farm road, as I recall it, and he knocked on a farmer' ; s door and he wasn' ; t there. He was out in the fields maybe or in town, but it was so important to him to canvas that area that he went on to some other place and came back just to see this one farmer, and this one farmer was so impressed with that fact that a fellow running for governor would even return to see him that that guy, that farmer, took off from work during the heat of the campaign and covered the whole county for Russell, saying, Listen, this is a good young man ; I want to tell you this young man went to the trouble to come back and see me when I wasn' ; t even there and came back a second time. And he [Russell] said--became my greatest advertising campaign, and he said these little things, he said, in politics, Eagleton, that count. He said we always--I' ; m not quoting him with exact words, but this was the gist of the conversation--he said in this day and age where everybody talks about television, yes, it' ; s important, and radio and newspapers. That' ; s all important, but he said it' ; s those little personal things that make you or break you in politics ; and I couldn' ; t agree more because my state, although it' ; s somewhat different from Georgia--but in out-state Missouri as we call I we have two big cities, St. Louis and Kansas City, and then the rest is rural ; even with television and all of the modern gimmicks, person-to-person campaigning of the type that Senator Russell described is indispensably vital. CATES: Senator, do you know of any instance where he had swayed a vote or changed a vote in the Senate, since you' ; ve been in the Senate, by his personal magnetism or logic or intellect? EAGLETON: I' ; m sure there are some ; as you ask that question, I can' ; t cite you a specific case in point, but I can answer this question generally. As you know in the last--I' ; ve only been here two years--Senator Russell during that period did not speak often, indeed very seldom ; when he did, everybody listened because of who he was and because he didn' ; t over-utilize the floor of the Senate. You see, there is some--and I' ; ll leave them nameless--who perhaps speak too often, and hence, they wear out their acceptance because they' ; re up so often on so many issues. They lose--well, the word I guess is some of their credibility. Senator Russell used his privilege to speak on the floor sparingly and, hence, to maximum advantage. So, when he spoke on the war [Vietnam], as I recall--I think he did once during 1969, at least when I was there--when he spoke on the ABM [Anti-ballistic Missile] or on an Armed Services matter, as I say, it just carries greater weight, because here' ; s a man with experience who isn' ; t, as I say, like my--well, put myself in this category--mouthing off. I tend to mouth off--I' ; m sad to say of myself--but he didn' ; t. I' ; m sure if I think about it I probably could cite you a case in point, but I' ; m sure that the power of his persuasiveness and his great credibility did sway some votes. CATES: What would you say was his most outstanding personality trait? EAGLETON: I think he was a warm man. What I would--you' ; ll probably interview lots of senators and each one of us will have a different slant on this. What endeared him to me was the fact [that] here I was young, somewhat brash, brand new to this prestigious club and he accepted me and was as kindly to me as if I' ; d been here fifty years, you see. I mean that he made me feel that I belonged, and believe me, for a newcomer that' ; s sort of frightened by the whole thing and a little uptight about this thing we call the United States Senate, for one of the greats to make you feel at home is something that I' ; ll never forget. CATES: Senator, I see that we have really exceeded our time limit that you had set for this interview, and I want to thank you again for an excellent interview. EAGLETON: Thank you, Mr. Cates. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL216RBROH-143.xml RBRL216RBROH-143.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL216RBROH/findingaid
Location
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Washington, D.C.
Duration
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18 minutes
Repository
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with Thomas F. Eagleton, April 27, 1971
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RBRL216RBROH-143
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Thomas F. Eagleton
Hugh Cates
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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audio
oral histories
Type
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sound
Subject
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Sports
Political campaigns
Date
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1971-04-27
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United States
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
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Title
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Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection
Subject
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Georgia--History
Georgia--Politics and government
Politics and Public Policy
Description
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The Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection consists of interviews with politically prominent Georgians conducted by Bob Short from 2006 to 2016. Interviewees include former governors, members of both the U.S. and Georgia Congresses, secretaries of state, lobbyists, journalists, lawyers, activists, and relatives of prominent politicians. Included with these oral histories are a few public programs recorded at Young Harris College in 2006-2007. Most interviews were recorded in the homes and offices of interviewees or in the Bob Short Oral History Studio at the University of Georgia. The conversations cover many topics at the intersection of politics and public life in modern Georgia, with a particular strength in gubernatorial contests, the Civil Rights movement, reapportionment, the development of Atlanta, the rise of the Republican party in Georgia, political journalism, and the interaction between religion and politics.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=9&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here. </a>
Creator
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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2006-2016
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL220ROGP
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL220ROGP-154/ohms
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5.3 Interview with Garland Pinholster, August 20, 2014 RBRL220ROGP-154 RBRL220ROGP Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection ROGP 154 Interview with Garland Pinholster Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Garland Pinholster Bob Short oral history 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_2df98dis& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_qxo5sm3z" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 52 Early life and army service Ray City, Georgia. Pinholster discusses his early life, including playing basketball at his high school with his siblings. He then talks about joining the army and working as an instructor at Fort Benning. Clyattvile, Georgia ; Fort Benning, Georgia ; Great Depression ; infantry center ; Korean War ; North Georgia College ; Winterville, Georgia ; World War II 17 511 Coaching for Oglethorpe University What convinced you to be a college coach? Pinholster remembers being the athletic director and coach for Oglethorpe University and reviving the school's sports program. He focuses on the basketball team, explaining how the team grew to become a nationally-acclaimed team. booster club ; Division II ; football ; gymnasium ; Kansas City, Missouri ; NCAA ; Steve Smith 17 831 Pan American Games / Writing about basketball Well, then, I think I've got to mention the fact that you coached the United States team in the Pan American Games in 1963. Pinholster talks about how he came to coach at the Pan American Games. Pinholster then talks about authoring books about coaching basketball, particularly the< ; i> ; Encyclopedia of Basketball Drills< ; /i> ; , which even gained acclaim overseas. 1963 Pan American Games ; George Allen ; Luscious Jackson ; Pan American Trials ; Prentice Hall ; Small College All-Stars ; Willis Reed 17 1133 Introduction to politics / Time in the Georgia House When did you first get interested in politics? Pinholster elaborates on why he got interested in politics--namely, that government regulation hurt small businesses, including his own supermarket business. He then lists his goals upon entering into the Georgia House of Representatives in 1990, such as a zero-based budget and tort reform. Bob Snow ; budget reform ; Circle R ; Denmark Groover ; Fulton County, Georgia ; medical liability ; Paul Coverdell ; Republican Party ; state senate ; state wildflower tag 17 1639 Reforming the Republican Party During your terms in the legislature, you became aggressively active in the growth of the Georgia Republican Party. To explain why he became active in the Republican Party, Pinholster gives an anecdote in which Thomas Murphy refused to allow any Republicans to debate on a committee. Pinholster then describes his tactics for getting more Republicans elected, as well as the biggest obstacle he faced: gerrymandering. 2000 Census ; Anne Mueller ; black caucus ; conference committee ; conservative Democrats ; Cynthia McKinney ; far right ; redistricting ; Rotary Club 17 2070 Republicans' victories and troubles Let's go to 1964, a very important year in Georgia for the Republican Party. Pinholster talks about the major victories for the Republican Party before he joined. Pinholster then discusses the changes he wishes the Republicans would make within their party, as well as the problems affecting politics as a whole. Barry Goldwater ; Bo Callaway ; county-unit system ; David Ralston ; fiscal conservatism ; polarization. ; pork barrels ; Richard Russell ; Sam Nunn ; social issues ; Sonny Purdue ; Tea Party ; Zell Miller 17 2476 Member on the State School Board and Board of Transportation Now, let's see, after your service in the legislature, you became a member of the Board of Transportation. Pinholster briefly summarizes his year on the State School Board, expressing his discontent with how it was run. He then explains his role on the Board of Transportation and gives his thoughts on ways that driving in Georgia, and especially Atlanta, could be improved. American Heart Association ; Georgia Department of Transportation ; Kathy Cox ; physical activity ; privatization of toll roads ; repairing infrastructure ; state school superintendent ; synchronizing traffic lights ; taxation 17 2780 Influence of family members on values What is your current take on the state of the state of Georgia? Pinholster describes how his pride in the United States comes from his brothers' service in World War II, as well as his own military service. He then talks about how his mother taught him to value perseverance, citing an anecdote about chopping wood in his youth. American flag ; balancing budget ; Bill Cummings ; Nathan Dean ; Valdosta, Georgia ; wood stove 17 3117 Relationships made through politics Let's talk a minute about Senator Coverdell. Pinholster describes the relationships that he has made with people through politics over the years, including his friendships with Paul Coverdell, Zell Miller, and Roy Barnes. He also describes how recruiting candidates for the state legislature helped to forge friendships. Bob Short ; Coverdell Institute ; Denmark Groover ; house minority leader ; Steve Stancil ; Young Harris College 17 No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL220ROGP-154.xml RBRL220ROGP-154.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL220ROGP/findingaid
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Garland Pinholster, August 20, 2014
Identifier
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RBRL220ROGP-154
Creator
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Garland Pinholster
Bob Short
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video
oral histories
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Coverage
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Georgia
Subject
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Sports
State governments--Officials and employees
Political party organization
Description
An account of the resource
Garland Pinholster grew up in Clyatville, Georgia in a farming family. He earned his bachelor’s degree from the University of Georgia, served at Fort Benning during the Korean War, coached college sports at Oglethorpe University, and was elected to the Georgia House of Representatives. In this interview he talks about his coaching career, his entry into politics, and his role in the growth of the Republican Party in Georgia. Pinholster also discusses the influence of early Republicans candidates Barry Goldwater and Paul Coverdell, his views on political extremism and the Tea Party, and his work on the State School Board and the Georgia State Board of Transportation.
Date
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2014-08-20
Type
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moving image
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Athens Oral History Project
Description
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The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
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RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-008/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.2 Interview with Carol White, June 29, 2015 RBRL361AOHP-008 RBRL361AOHP Athens Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Carol White Bill Curry oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_sszcujnu& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_etrxlcgf" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 14 Childhood / Early education Carol, when did you know that you were brighter than other children around you? Carol talks about her childhood growing up in Jericho, Vermont. She describes hanging out in her father's filling station as a child and watching her mother cook in her restaurant. White talks about moving around Massachusetts, and relates her experience in Brookline, which was a primarily Jewish sector. She talks about being moved a year ahead in elementary school, as she was academically gifted. White describes her freedom in Boston, recalling the liberty given to her by her mother to explore the city. White talks about how growing up in the country in Vermont led her to develop an affinity for independent learning, which helped her learn effectively as an individual into her adult years. Boston, Massachusetts ; Brookline Massachusetts ; childhood ; Jericho Vermont 17 473 White's introduction to football First off, I never set out to have a non- traditional career. White talks about how, as an undergraduate, she initially wanted to work for government and thus studied political science at the University of Southern Mississippi. White continues to talk about how she funded her college education through music scholarships and work. White talks about how she came to get a Master's Degree in Information Science, in which her thesis was focused on finding errors in computer programs. White talks about her later experience working in an all black high school during the first year of integration, where she assisted with the statistical aspects of football. She describes how she learned how to understand football plays by watching old football films and by observing the actions of well-known football players. Albany Georgia ; Florida State University ; Information Science ; Southern Mississippi University ; Valdosta, Florida 17 802 Analyzing football plays / Reasons behind coaching John Marshall was a defensive coordinator with the falcons... White talks about how she built a detailed knowledge in football by watching coaches in live action. She describes how she advanced from analyzing plays to coaching linebackers before she was eventually promoted to coaching defense. White explains why she came to work in football, as she states it was an opportunity to help people. White also states that helping the Albany High School football team had the benefit of location as she saw it as an opportunity to get involved in the politics of East Georgia. Albany Monroe High School ; Albany, Georgia ; Darty County County Association of Educators ; Jimmy Carter ; John Marshall ; Willy Thomas 17 1284 Physics, mathematics and coaching The head football coach that came in... White describes an incident where she went to Fort Lauderdale in Florida to learn from Philip Eschbach about the statistics and scientific aspects of football. White talks about how she perceived football as a way to teach kids to not only become better students, but to also have career goals. White describes how she additionally came to coach cheer leading ; she recalls how the cheerleading team eventually grew to perform well enough to compete. White also describes the integration of male cheerleaders into Fort Lauderdale's team.. cheerleading ; College of Education ; football ; Fort Lauderdale ; Philip Innes Eschbach ; William Curry 17 1625 Attending football conferences In April of 1985, LaVell Edwards was speaking at the Georgia Tech spring coaching clinic. White talks about how she went to the coaching clinic at the Georgia Technical University, where LaVell Edwards, a coach, was speaking. White describes how after attending the clinic, she was offered a job by Bill Curry to coach due to her extensive knowledge of football. White talks about how she was immediately hired as an analyzer before she eventually came to work with the other men. White talks about her experience attending a football conference for the first time at the University of Georgia, and she describes how she came to be seen as equal among her male coworkers. White recalls a retreat with other coaches in to Sky Valley in Northern Georgia, in which she became more acquainted with the staff on Georgia Tech's football team. Bill Curry ; Georgia Tech ; John Guy ; LaVell Edwards ; North Georgia ; Sky Valley ; University of Georgia 17 2143 Encouraging better coaches I've always had the confidence that once I understood who my audience would be, that I could make a room want to learn. White talks about how her childhood, specifically how growing up around adults, helped her to interact with the other coaches more effectively. White describes how talking about her weaknesses as a coach encouraged the other members on the Georgia Tech football staff to do likewise which, in turn, helped to build a better team. White talks about her experience coaching David Bell, the star kicker at Georgia Tech, in which she claims her relationship with him assisted him to become a successful and charitable person. Bill Curry ; David Bell ; Georgia Tech ; Kentucky ; Larry New ; Mike Snow ; Stacey Parker ; Thomas Palmer 17 2669 Kick-aid Inc. For a female in an all male profession, the fact.. White talks about how coaching specialized players to interact effectively with the rest of the team helped Georgia Tech's football team to perform more efficiently and effectively. White explains how she started Kick-aid, a football camp focused on educating kids in the math and science behind football, purposed for giving kids the leadership training for both recruitment and other aspects of life. Bobby Ross ; Kick-Aid Inc. ; Pat James ; Snapping (football) 17 3360 Physics of kicking, punting, and snapping Now back to the nitty-gritty of the actual process ... White talks about the mathematics/ physics involved in football teaching and coaching. She talks about the methodology involved with kicking, punting and snapping, such as where to strike the ball in order to maximize the initial velocity and distance the ball travels. White talks about how she grew to want to help other people. She explains how her role models growing up encouraged her and did like-wise. Bill Curry ; football ; Georgia State University ; kicking ; mathematics ; physics ; punting 17 3848 Reasons behind teaching There were some folks that recognized in me what I would do. White recalls how people she knew growing up encouraged her to be a teacher. She relates a story of how she would talk " ; Bobbie" ; (who she later found out to be be Robert Frost) and how he would often tell her that she would be a teacher. White additionally describes how her 9th grade English teacher and band director encouraged her, and foresaw White's potential as an educator. White states that her models encouraged her to care for others. White explains how Edward J. " ; Doc" ; Story and William Curry, a fellow football coach/physicist knew White would become a great empowered to other people. Cambridge ; Cape Canaveral ; Edward J. " ; Doc" ; Storey ; Florida ; Patrick Air force Base ; Philip I. Eschbach ; Robert Frost ; University of Southern Mississippi ; William Curry 17 4337 Publishing potential / Coaching income People have tried to get you do a book... The interviewer (Bill Curry) talks about his want for White to write a book to encourage other people, particularly those trying to enter non traditional positions. White responds that while she wants to publish, she feels that publishers might alter her message. White talks about how she never received an exceptionally large income from the work that she did, as she felt that a large salary would cause her to compare herself to others, and ultimately place a value on the work she did. Auburn Kicking Academy ; Georgia Tech ; income ; Publishing ; William (Bill) Curry 17 4841 White's legacy / Building leadership through Kick-Aid My next question was going to be what would the Carol White Legacy be, but I think you just answered it. White talks about how her legacy is the people that she affected through her actions. She talks about how football coaching is a job that demands the ability to create a learning environment. White hints that recent football recruiting effort need to focus on recruiting students that want to learn in both football and life. White talks about how encouraging leadership among students is a integral part of teaching football ; a philosophy which she says she upholds through her company, Kick-Aid. football ; football recruiting ; leadership ; Legacy ; teaching 17 5153 Singing in Choir / Teaching altruism What would you like for people to know about Carol White? White talks about how she has few friends who are older woman her age, simply because she has trouble relating to them. White describes her love for singing in the choir, though she can rarely attend as her job requires traveling. White explains that by becoming a football coach, she was able to use her talents to help others. White emphasizes the importance of relaying the message of helping others. Choir ; Maya Angelou ; St. James Methodist 17 Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 http://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL361AOHP-008.xml RBRL361AOHP-008.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
93 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Carol White, June 29, 2015
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-008
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
oral histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Women athletes
Sports
Coaches (Athletics)
Description
An account of the resource
Carol White was born in Jericho, Vermont. White received a degree in political science from Southern Mississippi and a Master’s degree from Florida State University. She became one of the assistant coaches for a high school football team, and she took stats and taught kicking for the team. In 1985, White joined the coaching staff at Georgia Tech. White talks about how she started her specialized kicking camp called KICK-AID.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Carol White
Bill Curry
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-06-29
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
moving image
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
71 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-034/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-034/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-04-16
Interview with Julia Jones, April 16, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-034
71 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Julia Jones
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_qzmeo0m9&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_kke93g6e" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Julia Jones, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Today is April the 16th 2022. Um- I am here with Ms. Julia Jones.
Jones is introduced and thanked for participating in the interview.
44
Early Life
I'd like us to start with you telling me a little bit about yourself.
Jones introduces herself and her family. She describes the living conditions of her childhood homes and emphasizes that the projects was a place for children to play. She details going to the baseball games her grandfather coached and his connection to the community. She also mentions the philosophy her grandmother taught her for cleaning.
Baseball;Broad Acres;Harry 'Squab' Jones;Horse riding;Magnolia Street;Mary A. Williams;Pope Street;Projects;University of Georgia;Zelma Jones
384
Childhood games
Um- you said quite a bit and I'm going to talk about pretty much everything you just said and then I know there were some other things that uh people will like to hear about your granddad
Jones remembers the many games that she and her friends played when she was growing up. She talks about the equipment they had and how some of their games would get them in trouble. She also recalls where her family members lived on Magnolia Street.
Charlie Jones;Joe Hightower;Magnolia Street;Wesley Harry Jones
565
Living on Magnolia Street
Ok continue. You were talking about Mag- uh Magnolia Street.
Jones highlights the fun that she had living on Magnolia Street. Jones also recalls the Black properties that existed on the pathway to Alps Road and their owners.
Baxter Street;Callie Wingfield;Eberhart;George Wingfield;Washington Street;Wingfield;Zelma lee Hightower Jones
821
Hot Corner
Ok tell me about Hot Corner growing up.
Jones recalls the businesses that existed on Hot Corner including her great grandfather's tailor shop. She then describes Hot Corner and emphasizes that many Black people visited. Jones explains that she lived with her cousin because all of the women in her family were attending college to become teachers.
Albany State University;Brown's Barber Shop;John Winfrey;Morton Theater;Ray Ware;Winfrey Mutual Funeral Home Inc
1087
Job opportunities for women
Now-um you mentioned that most of the women stayed home to clean the house and then they would work at other people's house.
Jones explains that there were not many job opportunities for women beyond house work. She describes that along with these jobs, the residents of Magnolia Street would sell the vegetables from their gardens. Jones also mentions that after college, she came back to Athens to work because she did not want to be a teacher.
Albany State University;Broad Street;Magnolia Street
1213
Kindergarten and elementary school
Well let's go back. We're going to start you off at kindergarten. We're going to switch gears.
Jones discusses how she enjoyed her elementary school years. She recalls her Kindergarten teacher calling her fast and telling the girls to close their legs when they wore dresses. She emphasizes not being allowed to get into trouble in elementary school because of the relationships she had with the teachers. Jones also details how she hid in another teacher's room once because she preferred her over her cousin who was her actual teacher.
Broad Acres;Donarell Green;Jimmy Hill;Magnolia Street;Ms. Wembley's kindergarten;Pope Street;Segregation;West Broad Street School
1516
Middle school
Now we're going to sixth grade, middle school.
Jones describes how she would get in trouble often for running in the halls. She recalls one instance where her friend, Max Stroud told the teacher on her for running, so she received physical punishment from both her teacher and he grandmother. She also mentions her friend group from that time.
Jean Jones;Jimmy Hill;Max Stroud;Oglethorpe School;Pope Street;Ridge Street
1883
Segregation in schools
Now let's go to high school
Jones talks about what schools Black students attended. She emphasizes that it did not bother her that the white students attended separate schools because Black parents were smart and would most likely find a way to provide education for them.
Athens High and Industrial School;Athens High School;Bussing;Segregation;West Broad Street School
2141
High school sports and education
Um- Now we're going to talk about high school.
Jones recalls how her grandmother was against her going to out of town events. She explains that her coaches had to convince her grandmother to allow her to go to these events. She also talks about how the resources at her high school were not good quality, however, the teachers were great at their jobs.
Basketball;Track and Field;Walter Allen Sr.
2450
Race relations
Now race relations then. I heard a little bit
Jones explains how she could not tell the difference between white and Black people as a child. She explains how she used to play with white children when she was not in school because of her parents' jobs. She also states that she did not call white mothers 'Missy' because she could not distinguish between the races.
Segregation;University of Georgia
2568
Harry 'Squab' Jones
Ok now I think this is a good point in- Well is there anything else about your life personally that you want to mention at this time
Jones discusses that her grandfather brought Cuban baseball players to Athens and coached the Black Crackers Baseball team. She recalls that there were many Black-owned homes at the time and that the Cuban players would stay in these. Jones also reflects on the many occupations and skills that her grandfather had and his ability to work on them at the same time.
Cannon Drive;Cannontown;Cuban Black Crackers;Glenhaven Avenue;Harold Thomas;Satchel Paige Jones;Sheats Barber & Beauty Shop;Tree That Owns Itself;Veterans of Foreign Wars
3117
Ladies Softball/ UGA Football
Now we're going to go to UGA days now
Jones states that the Recreation and Parks Department was created because there were not many recreational activities for Black people. She also discusses her involvement with the Ladies’ Softball team in Athens and explains that it was created because her grandfather discovered a segregated girl’s softball team in Calhoun. Jones reflects on going to the houses of UGA football coaches and helping her grandfather. She details the role this has had on her parenting and interests in football throughout her life.
Barbara Dooley;Calhoun;Christine Weaver-Howard;Harlem Theater;Harry 'Squab' Jones;Harry Dexter Jones;Herschel Walker;Segregation;Stegman Coliseum;Sugar Bowl;Veronica Richard;Vince Dooley;Wally Butts
3713
Baseball players and Harry 'Squab' Jones' legacy
Um - Let's see. Well I think the-uh Anything else you want to add?
Jones talks about how UGA contacted her and are looking for a baseball player named Pledge. She mentions that he is buried at Brooklyn cemetery and states that some of her family members are also buried there. She also discusses the plans for her grandfather's grave and his influence on the hedges at Sanford Stadium. Jones finally reflects back on her childhood and states that Broad Acres was the safest place in the world.
Babe Davis;Baldwin Hall;Between the hedges;Black Crackers;Broad Acres;Brooklyn Cemetery;Charlie Trippi;Clarke Middle School;Fred Smith;Harry 'Squab' Jones;Howard B. Stroud Elementary School;Linda Davis;Loran Smith;Satchel Paige;Wally Butts
Array
1
Array
oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Julia Jones, April 16, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
Coaches (Athletics)
Women athletes
Sports
Public housing
Segregation
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Julia Jones
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-04-16
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-034
Description
An account of the resource
Julia Jones was born and raised in Athens, Georgia. She attended West Broad street School and Athens High and Industrial School before furthering her education at Albany State University. In this interview, Jones reflects on her childhood and upbringing in Athens. She discusses her love for sports and how that translated into a lifelong involvement with sports and the community. She also talks about the life and legacy of her grandfather Harry ‘Squab’ Jones and the impact that he has had on her.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
104 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-043/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-043/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-05-06
Interview with Billy Wade, May 6, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-043
104 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Billy Wade
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_qp4op8pu&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_7xkwc8ht" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Billy Wade, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Okay, are you ready to get started?
Breeding briefly introduces himself and Wade, mentioning topics that he hopes Wade will discuss.
Clarke Central High School;sports
159
Early childhood
My date of birth was 1954.
Wade discusses his parents, his siblings, and the school he went to with his older brother and sister. He talks about discipline within the home and compares it with the attitudes of the younger generation today. He emphasizes that it isn’t a lack of discipline that is the issue, but that the home unit is broken and relationships are weak.
1950s;1960s;childhood development;Greene County, Ga.;Martha Wade;Oconee County, Ga.;R. L. Wade;Rocksprings Homes;segregation;West Broad Street School
393
Athens sports
And when we went to, you know, downtown Athens and stuff, you couldn’t tell me that downtown Athens wasn’t downtown Atlanta.
Wade talks about the business owners and their shops along Hot Corner and Callaway Corner. He talks about the influence they had and the connections they established with the community. He says that all of his heroes he knew in the flesh and grew up watching people playing sports in the neighborhood, influencing him to become involved in sports. He mentions many of the athletes he played and grew up with.
1950s;1960s;basketball;Burney-Harris High School;Chuck Taylor All Stars;fashion;football;Horace King;Joe Mike Ford;Moss Shoe Shop;Percy Eberhart, Sr.
865
Black Athens sports history
Now, Horace King was one of the first to go to UGA, right?
Wade describes the athletes that he idolized when he was young. He emphasizes that the sports teams at the Black schools, particularly Burney-Harris, were so strong because alumni would come back and invest in the students. He explains his transition from playing sports recreationally with his friends in the neighborhood to playing sports formally and that a lot of Black sports history has been erased.
1950s;1960s;Burney-Harris High School;Harlem Globetrotters;Henry Smith;Mystery Hill;segregation;University of Georgia;University of Missouri;Young Men's Christian Association
1519
Athletes as community leaders
I understand that Jackie Robinson was not by far - was way on down the list of best players that came from the Negro league.
Wade talks about how playing on a school team was not incredibly important, because students engaged with sports of all kinds in the neighborhood. Athletes were respected and provided the younger kids someone to look up to, but they didn’t necessarily inspire the younger kids to start playing sports on a school team. He briefly mentions the cycle of athletes returning to their alma maters to give back to younger generations.
1950s;1960s;community relations;role models
2013
Elementary school
Basically I started school at West Broad Elementary School.
Wade goes into the quality of the education he received at West Broad. He says that the teachers were set on making sure their students knew how important education was and that they cared about their students. He describes his perception of West Broad as the best school in the world because of its immaculate condition.
1950s;1960s;childhood development;discipline;segregation
2188
New York
Well, we moved to New York right after I came out of the second grade.
Wade compares the environments of Georgia and New York, saying that New York schools were integrated. He recalls his brother teaching him how to tie a tie when he was in the third grade because his brother was tired of doing it for him.
1950s;1960s;Caesar Wade;education;The Bronx
2375
Return to Georgia
– so, when we came from the third grade back to Georgia and stuff right there, it was a year later.
Wade explains that the teachers were like an extension of his mother, and that was how all the students saw them. He describes how well the students behaved and the types of punishment they received. He mentions that the students kept themselves straight-laced and in line out of the respect they had for their teachers and elders.
1950s;1960s;community relations;discipline;generational respect;Hancock Corridor
2745
Middle school
Then the next big step: going to middle school.
Wade recalls moving to the Lyons school near the airport and the teachers he had. He emphasizes that even though the school’s band was small, the music teacher was very talented and passionate. He talks about how the community was so tight-knit that during the winter when it was freezing, the people who lived closest to the bus stop would let the school kids come into their living rooms to warm up while they waited on the bus.
1950s;1960s;community relations;cooking;education;environmental racism;home economics;Howard Stroud;Lyons Junior High School;marching bands;segregation
3125
Sports in the Black community
Half of the people there - either they was older, out of high school, in the military, they was at Burney-Harris, going to the middle school, or they was going to elementary school.
Wade explains that everyone went to school and that neighborhoods during school hours were quiet. He talks about students’ involvement in sports and how these connections branched through communities surrounding Athens, tying them together. He shares some memories of elementary school athletes being so talented that they played with the high school.
1960s;1970s;Athens High and Industrial;Burney-Harris High School;Callaway Corner;fashion;Fort Valley State University;gender roles;Lyons Junior High School;recreational sports;Rocksprings Homes;role model;Vietnam War
3906
Fewer opportunities today
Now you just said something - today they would call them what?
Wade laments that the same activity that was celebrated in his youth is now labeled as gang activity. He talks about how jobs today for the younger generation are limited, and that has left them with fewer career options. The people themselves were able to do all kinds of work, but that did not mean that they got a job relevant to their skills. Because of this, a lot of Black people moved North.
1960s;1970s;Burney-Harris High School;economic stratification;Great Migration;institutionalized racism;women's athletics
4565
Maintaining the community
It’s like, you know, former coaches growing up.
Wade discusses the unsung heroes he chose to honor by naming awards after them. He says that these people went beyond their duties as coaches and would reel students in if they felt they were going down the wrong path. He says that they also made sure that, once you left high school and had gone to college, you stuck it out and made your own connections so that you could give back to the community.
childhood development;community leaders;community relations;discipline;role models;sports
5048
Community games
How were those who didn’t play, how were they respected?
Wade says that all the neighborhoods had an all star game, and he describes not just the competitive nature of the games, but how these games helped connect the communities to one another. It didn’t really matter if someone played for a school team or if they were any good because outside of school, almost everyone was active in the games that happened around the neighborhoods.
1950s;1960s;community leaders;community relations;community rivalries;recreational sports;role models
5597
Regression in the current generation
- and then I think we got to the point where we got stagnated somewhere.
Wade discusses how previous generations pushed the envelope in order to make progress for the Black community, but as time went on and doors started to close, the modern generation is not as active as pushing back. He mentions that the community wanted its members to do better, and he recounts how smokers and drinkers would step away from the main crowds to nurse their vices instead of attempting to get others to join. He explains that community leaders have also disappeared.
1950s;1960s;2010s;2020s;childhood development;community relations;institutionalized racism;integration;role models;segregation
6016
Advice to the current generation / conclusion
Now this last question - I want you to make a statement.
Wade emphasizes the importance of education and exposing yourself to things you otherwise would never experience. He explains that even if some doors have been closed, if you don’t try to open it, you don’t know if it’s locked.
community building;cultural exposure
oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Billy Wade, May 6, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American athletes
Coach-athlete relationships
Coaches (Athletics)
Sports
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Billy Wade
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-05-06
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-043
Description
An account of the resource
Billy Wade was born in Athens in 1954. An active member in the community, he was influenced by figures such as athletes, coaches, and elders that helped shape his career into one of the most impactful coaches in Athens history. In this interview, Wade retells what he knows and what he learned about Athens Black sports history during his career and how the community has changed. He discusses at great length the athletes he worked with and his experiences with sports.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
54 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-074/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-10-13
Interview with Randy Watkins, October 13, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-074
54 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Randy Watkins
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_o3vb4kpx&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_fsgv5rqk" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Randy Watkins, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Today is October the 13th 2022
Watkins is introduced and informed about the project.
103
Education and Integration
Ok, the way I'd like this interview to go
Watkins talks about attending a white school prior to forced integration and racial injustices that occurred. Watkins recalls that after forced integration, he noticed both his white and Black friends constantly arguing. He mentions participating in athletics and the racial conflict that was occurring at the high school level. Watkins also explains that after attending a Black university, he realized that people are the same regardless of race.
Athens Academy;Athens Christian School;Athens High and Industrial;Burney-Harris High School;Civil rights demonstrations;Clarke Central High School;Dr. Nathaniel Fox;East Athens Elementary School;Hilsman Middle School;Integration;Oconee Street elementary;Savannah State University;Segregation academies
608
Higher Education and Employment
So, when I was at Savannah State
Watkins talks about joining a fraternity and the brotherhood that still exists today. He also shares his experiences working from the bottom-up at a plant while in college and the discrimination that he faced throughout the years. Watkins attributes his success to hard work and reflects on how he has worked hard his entire life. He details his journey officiating sports and recalls taking his grandfather to a University of Georgia game for the first time.
Cedar Shoals High School;Delmar Window Coverings;Levolor;Savannah State University;Segregation;University of Georgia
1028
Racial tension in school
So, let's go back to middle school
Watkins explains that both his Black and white peers would call him names for various different reasons. He explains that he has never been accused of acting white because of his authenticity and emphasizes how he treats others regardless of race or gender fairly. Watkins explains that the reason why hard-working people get picked on is that the ones picking on them are not willing to work as hard.
Dr. Franklin Roosevelt (Rosey) Gilliam III;Freddie Gilbert;Guy Maurice McIntyre;Scott Williams;Steve C. Jones;Uncle Tom
1670
UGA and Athens Black history
There's a lot of success stories with the African American at the University of Georgia
Watkins list and describes some of the successful Black graduates at UGA, noting that many were members of the Kappa Alpha Psi fraternity. He discusses the forgotten impact that so many Black men within Athens have had. Watkins recalls Dr. Walter Allen and the different times when he helped others.
Billy Henderson;Black-Diallo-Miller Hall;Civil rights demonstrations;Clarke Central High School;Donald A. Perry;Dr. Nathaniel Fox;Howard Stroud;I wish I was in Dixie Land;Integration;Jadon Adams;Kappa Alpha Psi;Lumpkin Street;Mary Blackwell Diallo;Segregation';Stegman Collesium;Walter Allen Sr.;Waycross, Georgia;Weyman Sellars;William Breeding
2271
Changing language and discrimination
Words matter and what I have found out you have to listen to who's talking, hear the word, and ask why are they using that word
Watkins talks about his discomfort with the fact that the N-word went from being an insult made by white people to something that many Black people use today. Watkins also explains why he is bothered when people ask him where he is preaching at whenever he is dressed in a suit. He shares that there are people who often fail to recognize his status, but asserts that Black people should simply correct these people and move forward.
2921
Advice the younger generations
… and they need advice from you to help get them to where you are now or beyond. What would that advice be?
Watkins advises children to have faith in God and themselves. He explains that they should be prepared to "fight that fight" by being prepared to take on challenges that may arise in life.
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Randy Watkins, October 13, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Civil rights demonstrations
Civil rights
United States--Civil rights
Race
School integration
Segregation
Sports
University and colleges--University of Georgia
Crime
Religion
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Randy Watkins
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-10-13
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-074
Description
An account of the resource
Randy Watkins was born and raised in Athens, Georgia. He is the current Director of Sales and Operations of More than Blinds as well as an umpire and an officiator of various different sports. In this interview, Watkins talks about the racial divide that existed in Athens during his childhood and how he navigated it. He also discusses African American history in Athens and at the University of Georgia, along with his journey to get to where he is today.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
93 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-090/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-090/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-03-09
Interview with Horace King, March 9, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-090
93 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
Horace King
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_tfe524ud&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_nwe8kibv" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Horace King, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Okay, see my name is William Breeding Jr. and today is the third month, ninth day of two thousand twenty three.
Breeding introduces the interview and gives some background about Horace King.
0
115
Early Life/ Earliest Memories
I know you don’t remember the exact day of your birth but tell- let’s start off with you telling me what they told you and then start with your earliest memories.
King discusses the earliest memories he can recall, some background on his family, and his childhood.
Harry King;Henderson extension;Luscious King;Minnie L. King;Off the grid;Red clay;Rocksprings housing project;Rocksprings recreation center;Sally Bale King;Sandersville,Ga;White dirt
0
535
Elementary School / Early Education
Now you got us to twelve and after we go through your daily activities, I want to go to the school yard.
King discusses the life-changing lessons taught to him by his parents and teachers from school. He discusses the times he got in trouble, hoping he would not get a note sent home.
Athens High and Industrial School;Basketball team;Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle school;Intramural sports;Joe Bale;Lyons Junior High School;Mr.Payne;Ms. Burten;Ms. Freeman;Richard Applebee;West Broad Elementary School
0
884
Attitude towards bullying and parenting
I don't know if you remember the early parts of school, there were kids that would kinda get harassed and money taken.
King discusses school, mentioning his feelings towards bullying even though, he never experienced it personally. He shares a story that showcases what he believes is the change in the prevalence of bullying.
Athens High and Industrial School;Bullying;Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle School;Cyberbullying;Laws
0
1298
High school football
Okay, so you were one of those people, I talk with Billy Wade and he was saying shoot he started naming the athletes.
King explains his time playing high school football and remembers his peers.
9th grade;Burney-Harris High School;Injury;Running Back;Scholarship;Sports;Training;UGA
0
1856
Integration during senior year / Playing Football through integration
Bobby Cross was a really talented guy that didn't get a fair shot especially after integration happened.
King recalls joining ROTC to get a deferment. King mentions teammates that did not get the same opportunities as him. King recalls integration and the merging of two high schools his senior year.
Military Deferment; 1971; Athens High and Industrial School; Burney Harris high school; Clarke Central high school; Joe Bale; Nathaniel Credit; Teammates; Waymen Sellers
0
2358
Changing team dynamics/ University of Georgia Recruitment
But how was it with that experience, how did you decide the University of Georgia? I know you were recruited, but in fact tell me about the Georgia experience and also kind of start off coming from that background.
King discusses the different dynamic of playing football and basketball due to different coaches. He also explains the recruitment process for the University of Georgia.
Basketball;Clarence Pope;Harry King;Intramural sports;Negotiation;Richard Appleby;Walter Allen Sr.
0
2829
King's time at the University of Georgia
Now let's take the conversation to the University of Georgia. Okay. What was it like when you first got there?
King talks about his struggle with academics. The support he received from coaches, teachers, and students.
Academics;Integration;Maxey Foster;Ronnie Hogue;Tim Bassett;Tony Williams
0
3431
Biggest Game / Best Football moments at the University of Georgia
Okay, now tell me about what's your biggest game? The biggest game, the biggest one or two moments at UGA.
King and Breeding reminisce about the best and worst moments of their athletic career.
Bulldogs;Ole Miss;Running back;Tennessee
0
4089
From College Football to NFL
Okay, now what was graduation day like for you?
King discusses graduating from UGA to become a pro football player for the Detroit Lions.
1976;B-back;Detroit, Michigan;General Motors;Running back;Stanford Stadium
0
4816
Family Life
Now, you mention going home and talking to your wife, Is she from Athens? No, she's from Atlanta. Well, tell me about meeting and your family.
King shares the story of meeting his wife, and talks about the success of his two daughters.
Atlanta;Australia;Brumby Hall;Children;Cummin Engine;Germany;Michigan State University;Oakland University;UGA;University of Michigan;White grand prix;Wife
0
5239
Advice to your younger self
Well, is there any thing we haven't covered? Well, nothing I could really think of.
King shares about the impact a teacher has had on him. King also discusses advice he would give to himself when he was in fifth grade.
"Give out not up";Georgia;Ms. Morten;West Broad elementary school
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
https://sol07.sewanee.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=/render.php?cachefile=RBRL361AOHP-090.xml
RBRL361AOHP-090.xml
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Horace King, March 9, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Segregation
School integration
African American athletes
Professional athletes
Sports
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Horace King
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-03-09
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-090
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Description
An account of the resource
Horace Edward King was born in March 1953 and grew up on Henderson Extension in Athens. King went to West Broad Elementary School, Burney-Harris High School, and Athens High and Industrial School which was integrated during his senior year. King discusses playing football through integration and explains the dynamics of being one of the first African American football players at the University of Georgia. He also talks about his life after the University of Georgia, becoming a father and a Pro NFL player.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
77 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-092/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-092/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-03-21
Interview with James Fair, March 21, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-092
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
James Fair
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" type="text/javascript" src='https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_b0bfr3uj &flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_3tugz40b" width="640" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="James Fair, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Today is March the 1st, 2023. My name is William Breeding and I am blessed today in more ways than one.
William Breeding introduces himself and his mentor, James “Pete” Edward Fair, then thanks Fair for the interview. Fair spells his name for the record and shares his birth year, 1946.
photgraphy; mentorship; 1940s; teaching
0
210
Childhood and Education in Athens
"Tell me about growing up in Athens."
Fair describes his family and experience growing up in Athens. He emphasizes the impact his community had on him, including the push for education in his generation and his involvement in athletics in his youth. He talks about his experiences in high school and how it differs from today.
1950s; 1960s; Aaron Heard; Athens High and Industrial School; Broad Acres Public Housing; Burney-Harris High School; E.T. Roberson; H.T. Edwards; Irene Fair; James Fair; Maxie Foster; Oglethorpe County, Ga; college; competition; fellowship; football; integration; neighborhood; quality; scholarship
0
730
College and concentration of Black talent
"And that's what caused me to go off to be educated..."
Fair describes his experiences in collegiate football at Southern University, and its impact on him. He talks about balancing classes and football, and the importance of education. He briefly discusses the concentration of Black talent within HBCUs
Aaron Heard; Dwayne Harden; HBCU; Historically Black College and University; SWAC; Southern University and A&M College; Southwestern Athletic Conference; University of Georgia (UGA); Vince Dooley; business management; coaching; defense; linebacker; scholarship
0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_University
Southern University and A&M College
1156
Start into coaching youth football in Athens
“So they had the youth football, and I went up on the hill, and some of the guys I played with was coaching…”
Fair starts to talk about cleaning up the youth football team in Athens, but briefly backtracks to talk about graduates from Southern University. He then shares the program’s successes. Fair describes helping prepare kids to fit into the high school football system.
Athens, Ga; Billy Henderson; Clarke Central High School; championships; coaching; scholarships; youth athletics
0
1451
Athens Athletics Hall of Fame
“And he said, I want you to be in charge of this program.”
Fair describes becoming President/CEO of the Athens Athletics Hall of Fame at the request of Coach Henderson. He shares how his Housing Authority job prepared him for the role. Fair then discusses the importance of the Hall of Fame.
2000s; Athens, Ga; Billy Henderson; local talent; recognition; scholarships
0
https://athenshalloffame.com/
Athens Athletic Hall of Fame
1799
Youth athletic talent and Coach Billy Wade, part 1
"Did you see a lot of talented athletes that basically didn't have other areas together?"
Fair discusses meeting Billy Wade during Wade’s time playing high school football, and getting him into college. He reflects on seeing good athletes lacking in academics, limiting their success. Fair mentions bringing an NFL player to Athens to meet some of the boys and his wife’s class.
Mel Blount; Morris Brown College; community; graduation; growth; maturity; mindset; scholarships
0
https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/RBRL361AOHP/RBRL361AOHP-043
Interview with Billy Wade, May 6th, 2022
2093
Working with youth
"...Sometimes you can't out there, you can't, you can't elevate their minds by just talking sometimes..."
Fair shares a story about his players asking to start up a softball team, and quickly getting beat. He talks about the differences between working with younger versus older kids.
coaching; youth athletes; youth sports
0
2224
Youth athletic talent and Coach Billy Wade, part 2
"But Billy was very positive."
Fair returns to talking about Billy Wade and his influence on the community. He discusses Wade’s methods and ability to get students recognized. Fair then reflects on several talented athletes he’s seen over the years.
Athens Athletic Hall of Fame; Charlie Dean; Clarke Central High School; Dwayne Harden; Percy Eberheart; University of Georgia (UGA); basketball; coaching; female athletes; scholarships
0
2636
College experience and cooperation
“Were you a little homesick? You were happy to get away? Or a little bit of both?”
Fair returns to talking about his experience attending college. He emphasizes the importance of his choice and the impact it had on him. He discusses the hard work he put into college and all he gained.
Aaron Heard; Bayou Classic; Grambling State; HBCU; Human Jukebox; Southern University and A&M College; University of Georgia; Vince Dooley; college football; cooperation; discrimination; football; homesick; marching band
0
2970
The importance of new experiences
"Well see, I really didn't want to go to Georgia but I was also thinking about my parents having to pay."
Breeding talks about his college experiences, and then he and Fair discuss the cultural value of Historically Black Colleges and Universities along with the importance of new experiences for youth. Fair shares the story of his son’s decision of which college to attend.
HBCU; Human Jukebox; Jameson Fair; Southern University and A&M College, Clark Atlanta University; college football; marching bands
0
3380
Opportunities and privilege
"Well looking back on it, are there things you would have done differently?"
Breeding and Fair return to talking about exposure and the need for young adults to leave their community to see new things. Fair specifically reflects on his college experience and how he was exposed to new people and opportunities he never would have had in Athens or in Atlanta.
Athens, Ga; Clark Atlanta University; HBCU; Southern University and A&M College; community; environment; networking; representation; social class
0
3627
Coaching youth football
"With you, um, saying that, there's one thing that brings back a memory..."
Fair discusses coaching and how difficult it was to teach the kids strategy and positioning.
East Athens Dolphins; coverage; football; teaching; youth football
0
4004
Friendship with Aaron Heard
“When you heard of Pete Fair, Aaron Heard was somewhere to be around.”
Fair talks about growing up alongside former NFL player Aaron Heard and their close friendship throughout their lives, including during their time at Southern University.
Aaron Heard; Broad Acres Housing; East Athens Community Center; National Football League; Southern University and A&M College; childhood; defensive line; football; offensive line; wide receiver
0
https://www.onlineathens.com/obituaries/p0190489
Aaron Heard's Obituary
4164
Marriage and Children
“Ok then, tell me a little bit about your family. How long have you been married?”
Fair names his wife (married in 1972) and his son. He then goes on to describe the impact Breeding’s father had on him and then in general the importance of community.
Jameson Fair; Linda Fair; church; community; involvement; public housing
0
4442
Advice and closing
“Is there anything I haven't mentioned….”
Fair gives his advice for the younger generations, before Breeding gives his personal thanks to Fair for allowing the interview
God; church; goal; hindsight; religion; representation
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
https://sol07.sewanee.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=/render.php?cachefile=RBRL361AOHP-092.xml
RBRL361AOHP-092.xml
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with James Fair, March 21, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American athletes
Sports
Coaches (Athletics)
Education
Public housing
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
James Fair
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-03-21
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-092
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Description
An account of the resource
James Fair was born in 1946 and grew up in Broad Acres Public Housing in Athens. After graduating with a business degree from Southern University, Fair worked in the Housing Authority, but was well known for coaching youth football and becoming President/CEO of the Athens Athletic Hall of Fame. In this interview, James Fair talks about the value of Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) and the experiences he gained. He highlights the importance of supporting the youth and helping them to experience new things.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
77 minutes
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-100/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-100/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-05-09
Interview with Willie Green, Sr., May 9, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-100
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
Willie Green, Sr.
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" type="text/javascript" src='https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_clb5tl5k&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_3tugz40b" width="640" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Willie Green, Sr., Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
65
Childhood
Now take it from there and tell me when they brought the wonderful, uh, lil' Willie home.
Willie Green speaks on his birth and his upbringing in Pauldoe, a community in Athens, Georgia. He recalls figures in the community and friends he had through childhood.
Athens, Georgia; 1960's; Pauldoe; Community; Childhood; Rocksprings; Oglethorpe Elementary School; Clarke Middle School; Sports; Games
0
272
Willie and Corene Green
Tell me about, tell me, who were, or, who are your parents?
Green remembers his parents Willie and Corene Green, explaining their careers, roles in the community, and parenting styles. He further reflects on the friendship he felt with his father, and emphasizes the role of respect in the relationship between parents and children.
Athens, Georgia; Community; Parents; Parenting; Respect; Friendship; Janitorial Work; Pageant; Atlanta, Georgia; Washington, D.C.; Fraternities; Sororities; Pauldoe; Sports; Football; Willie Green; Corene Green
0
1192
Schooling
I want you to take me through your earliest memories of school, and take me all the way to high school...
Green shares his experiences through public school in Athens at Oglethorpe Elementary, Clarke Middle School, and Clarke Central High School. He reflects on lessons he learned and discusses his process of learning how to learn.
Oglethorpe Elementary School; Playground; Childhood; Youth; Suspension; Paddle; Bishop Park; Baseball; Learning; Clarke Middle School; Athlete; Football; Basketball; High School; Clarke Central High School; Education; Discipline
0
1770
Continuing Athletics
...so I couldn't play high school sports my senior year because I was too old.
Green explains his process of continuing his journey in athletics after aging out and no longer being eligible to play sports at Clarke Central High School by his senior year. He details his time at Tennessee Military Institute, where he went to further pursue his potential in baseball in hopes of garnering a scholarship from a university.
College; Football; Scholarship; Athens, Georgia; Sports; Sweetwater, Tennessee; University Athletics; Boarding School
0
2102
Recruitment
During my recruiting time, I really was scheduled to go to Tennessee...
Green shares the process of recruitment that would result in him playing football at Ole Miss, and connects his athleticism to his active childhood.
University of Tennessee; Auburn University; SEC; University; College; Athletics; Recruiting; "Ole Miss"; University of Mississippi; Tennessee Military Institute; Billy Brewer; Baseball; Football; Sports; Running; Bishop Park; Softball; Active Lifestyle; Swimming; Cross Country; Childhood; Pauldoe; Discipline
0
2378
Relationships and Family / Parenting through Sports
...yeah I got married, my senior year of college; I got divorced my senior year of college...
Green talks about his family, including his wife and children. He further discusses his attitudes towards parenthood, particularly in the context of having children in sports.
Family; Children; Sports; Marriage; Divorce; Step-Children; Parenthood; Football; Baseball; Basketball; Little League; Parenting; Coaching; NFL; College; Step-Family; Youth Athletics; Fatherhood; Relationships; Step-Siblings; 1990's
0
3058
Career in the NFL
Your chances at getting struck by lightning are greater than playing pro-football...
Green summarizes his successful tenure in the National Football League. He describes just how difficult it is to get into professional athletics and maintain your position, and emphasizes the importance of being in the right place at the right time. He details the path of his career, moving from team to team until he ended up with the Denver Broncos winning two Super Bowls, followed by retirement from the League.
College; Chuck Smith; NFL; Professional Sports; Football; Clarke Middle School; Sports; NFL Draft; Detroit, Michigan; Tampa, Florida; Carolina Panters; Jacksonville Jaguars; National Football League; Denver, Colorado; Denver Broncos; Jacksonville, Florida; Super Bowl; Team; 1990's; Retirement
0
3438
University of Mississippi "Ole Miss"
You went from a predominately Black community... to "Ole Miss"
Green talks about his time at the University of Mississippi in Oxford, Mississippi. He reflects on the good times he had there, and explains the lack of adversity in both academics, thanks to the support of professors, as well as social life, emphasizing the absence of racism on campus and in the lecture hall.
Ole Miss; Predominately Black Community; Rebel Flag; Mississippi; College; University; Racism; Phi Beta Sigma; Oxford, Mississippi; University of Mississippi; 1980's; Wages; Professors; Adversity; Legacy Students; Dr. Nobles; Clarke County; University of Mississippi African American Studies Club; UMAASC
0
3905
Advice to Youth / Pursuing Missions
Green offers his advice to todays youth, encouraging decision making that will lead to long-term benefit. He then commemorates his father, and discusses how seeing him having completed the mission of watching his son play in Sanford Stadium empowers him to work towards his own missions in life.
Children; Advice; Youth; Politics; Righteousness; Popularity; Decision Making; Strategy; Life; God; Goodness; Family; Government; Lobbyists; Ebenezer Baptist Church; Parents; Religion; Heart Attack; Children; Mission; Father; Sanford Stadium; Football
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
https://sol07.sewanee.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=/render.php?cachefile=RBRL361AOHP-100.xml
RBRL361AOHP-100.xml
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Willie Green, Sr., May 9, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American athletes
Sports
Professional athletes
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Willie Green, Sr.
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-05-09
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-100
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Description
An account of the resource
Willie Green Sr. was born in Athens in 1966. He was raised in an Athens community called Pauldoe, and attended Oglethorpe Elementary, Clarke Middle, and Clarke Central High schools. He also attended Tennessee Military Institute in Sweetwater, Tennessee before going to the University of Mississippi “Ole Miss” on an athletic scholarship to play football. He was then drafted into the NFL, playing for multiple teams before winning back-to-back Super Bowls with the Denver Broncos. In this interview, Green discusses his life up to the present, reflecting on the lives of his parents, his athletic career, and the importance of family.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
61 minutes
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-102/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-102/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-05-11
Interview with Cassie Evans, May 11, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-102
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
Cassie Evans
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" type="text/javascript" src='https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_q05v9xk7&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_3tugz40b" width="640" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Cassie Evans, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
146
Elementary School / Interest in Literature
They haven't really told me much, I mean the biggest thing that stands out to me is how I was named...
Evans discusses her early life and experiences at elementary schools in Athens. She details her early interest in literature and writing in all of its forms, composing poems, raps, and short stories from a young age and further describes her passion for reading.
Whitehead Road Elementary School; Fowler Drive Elementary School; W.R. Coile Middle School; Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle School; Clarke Central High School; Literature; Poetry; Rap; Short Stories; Writing; Family; Siblings; Reading
0
514
Middle and High School Basketball / Leadership
I was playing basketball at the time, ball was a huge part of my life growing up...
Evans reflects on her middle and high school experiences in basketball at schools around Athens. She talks about how basketball and a specific experience at church in her youth helped her to realize her natural potential for leadership.
Basketball; Sports; Boys and Girls Clubs of Athens; 2000’s; JV Basketball; Varsity Basketball; Leadership; Clarke Central High School; Middle School; High School; Life Lessons; Church; Hill Chapel Baptist Church; George Luke, Jr.
0
902
Injury / Travel Basketball
You had a promising career until you got hurt, correct?
Evans recalls the experience of getting injured after committing to Jacksonville University. She shares how the injury affected her and how it altered the path of her life. She then goes on to advocate for young athletes to play on a travel team and discusses the role it can play in one's development as an athlete.
Basketball; High School; College; Sports; Athletics; ACL Tear; Practice; Family; Athletic Trainer; Recovery; Physical Therapy; Travel Ball; Clarke Central High School; Fitness; Conditioning; Coaches; School; Training
0
1605
"Cass' Paper" and Journalism
Evans retells the story of her journey through journalism in school, detailing the writing and selling of her own newspaper relevant issues during her time at Clarke Central High School. Some of her article topics, like an article on interracial relationships, proved too relevant for school administration though, and as such she was made to write for a competing school magazine by the principal as a form of punishment.
Cass' Paper; Newspaper; Poetry; Articles; Writing; School Newspaper; Odyssey Magazine; Interracial Dating; Biracial; Interracial Relationships; Multiracial; Mixed-race People; Photography; Journalism; Clarke Central High School
0
1944
"Art is Important" Magazine
You mentioned, um, that you have a magazine now?
Evans talks about her bi-monthly magazine "Art is Important". She explains where and how to access it and, gives an update on the next edition.
Magazine; Journalism; Press; Creativity; AADM; Athens Anti-Discrimination Movement; Tribe House Records; Basketball Tournament; Athens, Georgia
0
https://www.tribehouserecords.com/
Evans' company website where her magazine "Art is Important Magazine" can be purchased or subscribed to
2038
Music Career / Tribe House Records LLC
...so tell me about your music career.
Evans talks about the development of her music career. She shares everything from her early childhood interests in recording and making songs in basements, to getting signed with multiple record labels, moving to New York City, ghostwriting, and now founding her own independent record label Tribe House Records LLC.
Rap; Singing; Music; 2Pac; Tupac Shakur; "Brenda's Got a Baby"; Storytelling; Recording; Clarke Central High School; Winder, Georgia; YouTube; Viral; Performances; MPAC Records; Studio; Album; Decatur, Georgia; Atlanta, Georgia; Aja Music & Film Productions; Soven Recods LLC; Ga Pro Entertainment; Mixtapes; Jay NiCE; Ghostwriting; Luv Tribe
0
2710
Winning Awards / "Miss America"
Now you recently won an award, talk to me about that...
Evans talks about some of the awards she has won as a result of her song "Miss America" and speaks on the significance of the awards. She goes on to explain the context behind the song.
Vic Chesnutt; Vic Chesnutt Songwriter of the Year Award; Morton Theatre Defiance Project Awards; 2021; Morton Theatre; "Miss America"; Perspective; Politics; Awards; Social Justice; Black Rights; Women's Rights; Social Change; Cindy Wilson; The B-52's; Music; Montu Miller
0
3012
Relationship with Father
I would say uh, the significance of my father in my life...
Evans talks about her relationship with her father, highlighting her appreciation of having a present Black father.
Parents; Father; Mamie Luke; Quinton "Busser" Evans; Parenting
0
3195
Music as a Reflection of Society / Advice to Youth
I would say the music is a reflection of where we are as a society...
Evans shares her opinions on the state of music today in an attempt to bridge the gap between today's music and an older generation. She emphasizes that the music that is produced today is a reflection of the society we live in. She then goes on to offer her advice to youthful minds, preaching the importance of self-love and acceptance, and the relationship you have with yourself.
Music; Society; Generational Differences; Education System; Family; Economy; Civilization; Rap; Illiteracy; Athens, Georgia; Popular Music; Youth; Advice; Self-Love; Self-Acceptance
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
https://sol07.sewanee.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=RBRL361AOHP-102.xml
RBRL361AOHP-102.xml
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Cassie Evans, May 11, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
Women athletes
Women musicians
Georgia--Music
Music
Hip-hop
Rap (Music)
African American athletes
Sports
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Cassie Evans
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-05-11
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-102
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Description
An account of the resource
Cassie Evans was born in Athens, Georgia in 1991. Her youth was filled with creativity, writing poems, short stories, and raps that are tied to her current music career. In this interview, she talks about her experiences in athletics growing up and how an injury changed her life's trajectory. She reflects on the path she took to get to where she is today and explains the development of her music career, along the way emphasizing her creative nature, her love for family, and her views on what music says about society.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
120 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-107/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-107/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-06-07
Interview with Danny Davenport, June 7, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-107
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
Danny Davenport
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_yzisf76x&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_3tugz40b" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Danny Davenport, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Birth and Family
I'd like you to tell me a little bit about your parents, grandparents, as far as you can remember...
Davenport talks about his grandparents and parents, and the story of their meeting. He then talks about his early life before his memory, explaining places he lived.
1960's; Annie Davenport; Morgan County, Georgia; Monticello, Georgia; Nancy Anne Davenport; Israel Davenport; Richard E. Williams; Athens, Georgia; A.G. Williams; Odessa Williams; Rocksprings; Broad Acres; Jack R. Wells; Pauldoe
0
400
Community Members / Youth in Pauldoe
My first real memories, I'mma be honest with you, probably are around when I was in school...
Davenport mentions many of the community members who made the Pauldoe/Jack R. Wells community in Athens such a nurturing place for children. He also describes his experiences in daycare centers at the Magnolia Center and in Pauldoe.
Mount Pleasant Baptist Church; Willie Green; Corene Green; Tommy Barnett; Chuck Bush; Charles Campbell; Fred Smith Sr.; 1970's; Community; Ed Turner; Ms. Barrett; Ms. Parks; Ms. Noel; Ms. McLane; Ms. Shaw; Barbara Sims; Clarke Central High School; Randy Shields; Michelle Shields; Jack R. Wells Community Center
0
950
Oglethorpe Elementary School
When I went to school at Oglethorpe Elementary, boy I was ready!
Davenport shares his experiences at Oglethorpe Elementary School. He talks about what his teachers were like, discipline, and the racial composition of the school, emphasizing that he was the only Black student in the Gifted Program.
1st Grade; 2nd Grade; Ms. Strickland; Ms. Hurley; Discipline; Paddle; Gifted Program; Clarke County School District; Confidence; Black Educators; Teachers; Youth; Ms. Banks; Athens Childhood Development Program
0
1214
Discipline in Childhood
For whatever reason it was Mr. Burton, um, he fought for me.
Davenport retells a story about Gillespie Burton standing up for him in the wake of discipline he dealt with following a fight. The story emphasizes the importance of principle, and displays some of the different approaches to determining what was worthy of discipline in his early life.
Gillespie Burton; Heritage; Grandparents; Parents; School Patrol; Dr. Estelle Farmer; Character; Nonviolence; Integration; 1970’s; Self Defense; Daycare; Oglethorpe Elementary School; Six Flags; Athens Childhood Development Program; John Ward; 5th Grade; Motherhood
0
1825
Moving to Middle School
Started going to Lyons Middle School...
Davenport talks about moving from Pauldoe to Mineral Springs and starting at Lyons Middle School in the 6th grade. He shares the names of many of his classmates, describing things they've achieved, emphasizing that those who have moved out of Athens have been incredibly successful.
Pauldoe; Jack R. Wells; Champion Family; Athens, Georgia; University of Georgia; Football; Clarke Central High School; Barnett Family; Mineral Springs; 1970's; Lyons Middle School; Westside; Howard B. Stroud; Administrative Class; Beta Club
0
2436
Howard Stroud / Lyons Middle School
...and everybody in power in the Board of Education was headed to prison except Howard Stroud, so I've known him as a man of character.
Following a short anecdote about the strong character of Howard Stroud, Davenport details some of his experiences at Lyons Middle School. In particular, he reflects on his time in the band there, remembering many of his bandmates and experiences as a percussionist.
Howard Stroud; Clarke County School District; Board of Education; Middle School Band; Johnny Sims; Larry McClure; Percussion; Drums; Rudiments; Cedar Shoals High School; Historically Black Colleges and Universities; Discipline
0
2858
Band at Cedar Shoals High School
That summer, I was a little weary of even being a part of the band.
Davenport continues to speak about his experiences in band after his progression to Cedar Shoals High School, talking about friendships he formed and reflecting on how being part of a community like that was good for him as an introverted person.
Larry McClure; Anderson Family; Cedar Shoals High School; High School Band; Band Practice; Music; Community; Upward Bound; Stewart Newton; Freshman Year; Racial Composition
0
3135
Importance of Black Educators
...where I was in classes where we had a lot of academic scholars who were African American...
Davenport speaks on his struggles during his freshman year at Cedar Shoals High School as a result of being in the courses of white teachers that he had trouble finding common ground with and relating to. He then talks about the essential role of Black educators throughout his years in school, as they uplifted him and encouraged him to strive for greatness.
Racial Composition; Racial Differences; Teachers; Education; Athens, Georgia; Cedar Shoals High School; Grades; Lyons Middle School; Academics; African American Teachers; Test Anxiety; Clarke Central High School
0
3615
Upward Bound / Finishing High School
You remember I was telling you about Steve Anderson introducing me to Upward Bound in the 9th grade?
Davenport speaks about his time in the Upward Bound program throughout high school. He explains what a great opportunity it was for him as a high schooler to attend classes on campus at the University of Georgia, and talks about his father's recommendation to attend a predominately white university for networking purposes. He then explains the end of his time at Cedar Shoals High School.
Steve Anderson; HBCU; Athens, Georgia; Savannah State University; Albany State University; Atlanta, Georgia; Fort Valley State University; 1980's
0
4135
Beginnings at University of Georgia
So now I'm in Georgia, as a freshman...
Davenport talks about his experience in enrolling at the University of Georgia, detailing his start as an engineering major before his quick switch to the School of Business. He emphasizes the pride he felt in being a young Black man attending the University of Georgia along with a few of his Upward Bound classmates.
Athens, Georgia; Baltimore, Maryland; Upward Bound; Baltimore City College; Athens Technical College; Research; Factory Industry; Classmates; 1980's; Business; Dr. Anthony "Tony" J. White; Bridge Student
0
4459
Kappa Alpha Psi at University of Georgia
Now what is Kappa for those who don't know?
Davenport explains the process of joining Kappa Alpha Psi, a historically Black fraternity that his father was part of and encouraged him to join. He explains that through the fraternity he learned a lot about the university, and as a native Athenian was able to create a more positive relationship between the students of the university and the Athens community than had existed before.
Upward Bound; Social Fraternity; Greek Life; University of Georgia; Historically African American Fraternity; Community Service; Indiana University; 1970's; 1980's; Athens, Georgia; Racial Relations; Pledge
0
4773
Starting in Accounting
The first job I applied to was an Accounting Specialist II...
After graduating from the University of Georgia in the Spring of 1989, Davenport began to search for employment in the banking and finance sector. He explains the process of interviewing for jobs and talks about the importance of maintaining good credit. He then details how he landed an accounting position at Equifax in Atlanta.
Credit; Interviews; Equifax; Accounting; Banking; Finance; Atlanta, Georgia; Athens, Georgia; 1980's
0
4978
Youth Athletics in Athens
I started working with my cousin with the Clarke Youth Association...
Davenport details his experience as a member of the leadership of the Clarke Youth Association, a youth league football organization in Clarke County. He further explains much of the history of youth athletics organizations in Northeast Georgia, from groups disbanding to organizations splitting due to administrative conflicts.
Clarke Youth Association; 1980’s; Insurance; Youth League Football; Youth Athletics; Athens, Georgia; Northeast Georgia Youth Football League; Clarke Middle School; Albany State University; Weight Control; Basketball; Racism
0
5436
Developing Girls Youth Teams
I brought some kids, African American young ladies who were in the 4th and 5th grade, never had played organized basketball...
Davenport further talks about the youth athletics scene in Athens in the 1990's. He explains the development of girls basketball teams in Black communities in Athens throughout his time in the youth athletics sphere, emphasizing their role in the nurturing and raising of children. He also reflects on how the racism present in Athens at the time could be seen through the parents of children in youth athletics.
Basketball; Athens, Georgia; Youth Athletics; Parkview Community; Bishop Park; Athens Academy; Youth Education; African American Athletes; Public Housing; Parents; Basketball Camp; Racism; Lay Park Community Center; Boys and Girls Club; Pauldoe; Broad Acres; Rockspring; Athletic Draft; Little League; Nellie B Community; Jack R. Wells Community; Athens African American Communities; Neighborhoods; Corene Green
0
6033
Career at Athens Housing Authority
...and at that time I got hired at the Housing Authority in 1994...
Davenport talks about his 29 years with the Athens Housing Authority, explaining his position as a collector, and reflecting on some of his positive experiences and good moments there. He emphasizes the importance of communication, trust, and compassion for others. He also reflects on the greatness of James Fair, who brought him onto the Athens Housing Authority team.
1990's; Family; Athens, Georgia; Athens Housing Authority; Public Housing; Collections; Credit; Equifax; Atlanta, Georgia; Debt; Communication; Business; Trust; Compassion; James "Pete" Fair; Nellie B Community
0
6646
Importance of Community / Closing Remarks
Well... importance of community. I think I mentioned to you how many people played a valuable role in the development of Danny Davenport.
Davenport reflects on the importance of community and details the role it plays in the development of people. He also emphasizes the government's role in providing opportunities for members of the community and encourages people not to forget that. He lastly offers his advice to the youth, emphasizing the necessity of dreaming big and enjoying life amidst stressors and challenges.
Community; Development; Richard "Rick" Dunn; Harold Moon; Michael Thurmond; Walter Allen Jr.; Elected Officials; Opportunity; Government; Selfishness; Athens, Georgia; Family; Model Cities Program; Daycare; Leadership; Pauldoe; Courage; Athens Housing Authority; Youth; Advice; God
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
https://wisvetsmuseum.com/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=/render.php?cachefile=RBRL361AOHP-107.xml
RBRL361AOHP-107.xml
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Danny Davenport, June 6, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Local government
Public housing
Sports
University and colleges--University of Georgia
African American athletes
Education
Community organization
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Danny Davenport
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-06-07
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-107
Description
An account of the resource
Danny Ronell Davenport was born in Athens, Georgia in 1965 and was raised in the Pauldoe/Jack R. Wells Community. In this interview, he details a history of his life, from childhood to his long-standing career with the Athens Housing Authority, including his time at the University of Georgia and his role in Youth Athletics in Athens. Throughout the interview he emphasizes the importance of community and the role of Athens Black communities and neighborhoods in the nurturing and raising of children.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
103 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-108/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-108/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-06-19
Interview with William Breeding, June 19, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-108
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
William Breeding
Tracy Smith
0
Kaltura
audio
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6
Family Members and Memories
Before we do that, tell me about your parents, and go back as far as you can remember.
Breeding details a condensed family tree and talks about each of his family members back through his grandparents, also mentioning 19th-century author Levi Branham as his third great-grandfather. He goes on to reflect on some positive memories with his mother and father, such as hunting with his father and wearing clothes made for him by his mother.
William James Breeding; Sally Miller Breeding; Charles Edward Breeding Sr.; Mary Lynn Gay Breeding; Charles "C.T." Thomas Gay; Guy Gay; Mary Gay; Esternette Moore Gay; Levi Branham; "My Life and Times"; Family; Ancestry; Dalton, Georgia; Greene County, Georgia; Parents; Grandparents; Teacher; Home Economics; Clothesmaking; Seamstress; Hunting; Fishing; Driving
0
464
Reflections on Grandparents
Now let me give you a story, two of my grandparents on my mother's side...
Breeding reflects on his memories with his grandparents, telling stories about his favorite things to do with them.
Grandparents; Dalton, Georgia; Horses; Fishing; Cooking; Baking; Alabama
0
745
Stories from School Years
Do you have any fond memories of you being in the elementary school?
Breeding tells stories of his memories from his time in elementary and junior high school, including stories about his penmanship, and people who took issue with his goal to become a janitor.
Daycare; Parents; Grandparents; Dalton, Georgia; Elementary School; Domestic Service; Booker T. Washington; Handwriting; Sports; Penmanship; Childraising; Junior High School; Integration; Custodial Work; Janitor; Principal; Spirit; Alex Haley
0
1346
Integration / Beginnings in Track
I think I was in the 6th grade when we integrated in Greene County...
Breeding discusses the integration of the school system in Greene County before moving on to talk about the beginnings of his prestigious career in athletics. He remembers his first 440-yard race before detailing other track experiences that occurred during his freshman year of high school.
Integration; Greene County; Elementary School; Students; Racial Relations; Teachers; Parents; Sports; Basketball; University of Georgia; Dominique Wilkins; Track and Field; Running; Athletics; Eugene Brown; High School; Nathaniel Whitehead Sr.; Hurdles
0
1911
Experiences in Track and Field
Now Coach Whitehead had taught me a great deal about track...
Breeding continues with his experiences in track and field, now detailing his high school years including his achievements like becoming the state champion in the 100 Meter and High Jump.
Hurdles; High School; 100 Meters; 200 Meters; Track; Nathaniel Whitehead Sr.; Pacing; State Champion; High Jump; 400 Meters; University of Georgia; Football; Athletic Scholarship; Vince Dooley; Lewis Gainey; Training; Practice; Swimming; Cedar Shoals High School
0
2518
Importance of Communication
He said "you should be able to stand up in front of anyone and speak for five minutes, period."
Breeding mentions a piece of advice from a teacher of his that emphasizes how important it is to be able to stand up and speak in front of anyone, and how his children embody this advice.
Marriage; Fatherhood; Parenting; Children; Sons; Daughters; Communication; Bogart, Georgia; Nicholas Antone; College
0
2639
Children, Marriage, and Parenthood
I have five children...
Breeding talks about his wife and five children. He describes the experience of becoming a father during his sophomore year of university. He then discusses becoming a father once more at 27, and the conflict behind naming his children with his wife.
Parenthood; Children; Fatherhood; Parenting; College; University of Georgia; Grandparents; Bogart, Georgia; Athens Highway; Principal; Social Media; Facebook; Unwed Parent; Naming
0
3231
Time in Education
...some of those kids will not remember a thing that you taught them, but they will remember how you made them feel.
Breeding describes his time in education, talking about lessons he learned and emotional payoff he felt from his 27 years of teaching. He takes time to reflect on the impacts people in the workplace had on him, particularly principals, and mentions the racism he has seen and experienced during his time teaching.
Educator; Teacher; Education; Students; Parents; Principal; Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle School; Racial Issues; Racism; Children; Home Issues; School; Master's Degree; Stereotypes; Bethel Homes; Homework
0
3780
UGA Teacher Study / Emotional Payoffs
...the University of Georgia wanted the professors to do a study on me...
Breeding discusses a University of Georgia study he took part in that analyzed how students were treated differently based on race and gender using feedback from his actual students. He then reflects on the emotional payoff he has experienced from teaching.
University of Georgia; Technology; Research; Education; Children; Homework; Racial Differences; Racism; Racial Bias; Principal; White Supremacy; Burney-Harris-Lyons Elementary School; Chase Street Elementary School; Gender Bias
0
4191
Parents' Achievements / Athens' Surrounding Communities
...but was he the president of the local chapter of the NAACP?
Breeding discusses his father's role as a community member, serving in a leadership role of the Georgia chapter of the NAACP, and as president of the Georgia Association of Educators. He also talks about the achievements of his mother, who was once Georgia's Home Economics Teacher of the Year, and his parents' dynamic that allowed them both to achieve at high levels. He then explains the interesting community dynamics in counties surrounding Athens-Clarke County.
NAACP; SCLC; Community Advocacy; William J. Breeding Sr.; Africa; Greene County; Track; Georgia Association of Educators; Alex Haley; "Roots: The Saga of an American Family"; Parenting; Fatherhood; Mary Lynn Gay Breeding; Motherhood; Howard B. Stroud; University of Georgia; Michael L. Thurmond; Oglethorpe County
0
4765
Three Trips to Ghana
I went to Ghana, West Africa on three occasions...
Breeding reflect on his trips to Ghana in West Africa, explaining who he went with and the experiences he had each time there. He also shares information about the use of beads in trade in Africa, and the multitude of skin complexions present in Ghana.
Art; Journey; Ghana; Africa; West Africa; Council for Independent Black Institutions; University of Georgia; Bonwire, Ghana; African Heritage; African Beads; Black History; Skin Color; Complexion
0
5496
Respect and Negotiating in Ghana
You know kente cloth speaks volumes...
Breeding discusses further his experiences in Ghana by talking about the system of respect he observed in Bonwire and how it related to negotiations in the marketplace. He also details the many meanings that kente cloths, Ghanaian textiles produced in Bonwire, are imbued with and how these meanings are interpreted by members of the community.
Athens, Georgia; Black Culture Center; Athens-Clarke County; Kente Cloth; Culture; Bonwire, Ghana; Government; Craftsmen; Artisans; Negotiation; Haggling; Spirituality; Symbolism; Respect; Katrina Breeding
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
https://wisvetsmuseum.com/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=/render.php?cachefile=RBRL361AOHP-108.xml
RBRL361AOHP-108.xml
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with William Breeding, June 19, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American athletes
Sports
University and colleges--University of Georgia
Education
African American teachers
Cultural awareness
School integration
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
William Breeding
Tracy Smith
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-6-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-108
Description
An account of the resource
William James Breeding, Jr. was born in Dalton, Georgia and spent his youth there. He experienced how the schools in Greene County handled integration, and found success in athletics there and beyond at the University of Georgia. In this interview, he provides details from a variety of moments in his life, from his time at University of Georgia competing in Track and becoming a father, to marriage and his experiences as an educator in Athens. He further recalls experiences from his trips to Ghana, explaining many aspects of Ghanaian culture he learned firsthand.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Music Project Oral History Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Music Project Oral History Collection is part of the Athens Music Project (AMP), a Willson Center for Humanities and Arts research cluster co-directed by Jean Kidula and Susan Thomas. Interviews in this collection document the development of Athens as a breeding ground for multiple musical communities--the most prominent of them being the Southern independent rock scene. Other areas to be documented include a variety of African-American musical traditions, hip-hop, jazz, bluegrass, folk music traditions, Latin music, new music and conceptual sound art, classical music, and musical theater, and AthFest.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=2&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Subject
The topic of the resource
Music
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Music
Georgia--Communities
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL379AMP
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="https://kaltura.uga.edu/media/t/1_i48h8b5r" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
111 minutes
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL379AMP-076/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2017-11-02
Interview with Rick Stanziale, James Greer, and Joe Eldridge, November 2, 2017
RBRL379AMP-076
111 minutes
RBRL379AMP
Athens Music Project Oral History Collection
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Rick Stanziale
James Greer
Joe Eldridge
Curtiss Pernice
0
Kaltura
audio
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12
Stanziale's introduction to music and skateboarding
And Rick, let's start with you...
Rick Stanziale talks about his first introduction to skateboarding and rock music. Stanziale shares how he came to skate in Athens in 1982. Stanziale recalls joining the band, The Problem Children. Stanziale talks about the lackluster popularity of The Problem Children.
Athens, Georgia;B-52's;Neon Christ;Porn Orchard;Problem Children;rock music;skateboard;The Black Flag;The Plague
481
Greer's introduction to punk rock and skateboarding
How about you, James?
James Greer recalls his brother's introduction to rock music and skateboarding, despite his southern upbringing. Greer describes the importance of magazines in keeping up with the respective communities. Greer talks about the fluctuation of popularity around skateboarding and punk rock during the 1990's.
heavy metal;punk rock;skateboarding;Thrasher Magazine
908
Greer and Punk music / Skating in Athens
Were you able to play in any...
Greer talks about the methods he used to listen to some of his favorite punk bands as a teenager growing up in a heavily religious household. Greer talks about some of the earliest concerts that he attended as a teenager, and the types of people he interacted with. Greer describes his introduction to skating in Athens.
Athens, Georgia;Black Flag;Elvo Clark;Minor Threat;The Ramones
1350
Athens skate parks
Did anybody- there was never...
Greer talks about the history of the skate park located in Athens, named SPOA. Greer recalls how the skate park was eventually torn down by the city of Athens, though it was rebuilt shortly after. Greer shares the origin of the new era of Athens skating in the late 90's with the skate park, Studio E. Greer talks about his experiences at Studio E.
Elvo Clark;Jason Griffin;skateboarding contest;SPOA (Skate Park of Athens);Studio E
1815
Edridge's childhood interest
That's how I met Jason Griffin...
Eldridge talks about his introduction to biking and rock music. Eldridge explains how his neighbor introduced him to punk rock and his transition from BMX biking to skateboarding.
ACDC;BMX;Jason Griffin;K.I.S.S;skateboarding
2260
Eldridge: Playing for bands / Returning to skating
When I was 16, I had a bad wipeout...
Eldridge describes a skateboarding accident he had at the age of 16, the severity of which led him to increase his focus on the Athens music scene during the late 1980's. Eldridge talks about his experience auditioning for bands as a bass player. Eldridge shares how he took a hiatus from skating, though started again once his children got into the sport.
Athens, Georgia;wipeout
2668
Band experiences
Did I remember you skating...
Eldridge describes some of his earliest attempts to practice at skate parks in Athens after his accident. Stanziale talks about his band, Problem Children, and the places that he performed. Greer talks about his earliest experiences playing in Athens.
John Rogers;Porn Orchard;Problem Children
3087
Athen's punk scene / The disappearance of house parties
So being in a band...
Greer describes his first impressions of Jason Griffin, a prominent drummer in the Athens punk scene. Greer talks about the disappearance of house shows in Athens.
Athens, Georgia;House Shows;Jason Griffin
3558
Punk music scene (cont.) / Gentrification in Athens
But I can see without...
Greer talks about living with drummer Jason Griffin, and the ways it connected him to the Athens punk rock scene. Greer and Stanziale describe the impact of the Hope Scholarship and sequential gentrification of Athens. Greer explains what he believes are the reasons for change in the Athens music scene.
gentrification;Jason Griffin;Porn Orchard House;punk rock
3904
Modern music creation / Band marketing methods
I know I'm going to sound...
Eldridge explains his belief that the internet has shortened the attention span of current youths, which he states has hindered the process of music creation. Greer describes some of the methods he used to promote communication among bands in the Athens music scene.
house parties;internet;Punk bands
4335
Touring with Goat Shanty
And then I saw, I saw Dead...
Greer talks about his first impressions of the band Dead Kennedys. Greer explains how he became the singer for the band Goat Shanty and describes their European tour. Greer talks about some of his experiences with border patrol in the Czech Republic.
Dead Kennedys;Goat Shanty;Jello Biafra
4774
Crack and Athens restaurants
Rick, you want to talk a little bit...
Stanziale recalls his experiences of the band, Crack. Stanziale reflects on one of the band members named Deonna Mann, and her contributions to the band Crack. Stanziale describes the ways in which restaurants contributed to the fostering of future bands in Athens.
GyroWrap;Joey Tatem;Problem Children;Sam Vanilla;Steven Copp;The Grit
5228
Porn Orchard
There's hundreds of thousands of...
The interviewer talks about the motivations and the work put into the Athens band Porn Orchard, and the ways in which it influenced the music scene.
Barry Barler;Club Gaga;Dream so Real;Porn Orchard;Pylon;R.E.M;We Think You Suck (magazine)
5715
Skating in Athens / Building skate parks
She wrote an advice column...
Stanziale talks about the series of magazines he wrote about the Athens skating community. Eldrige relates a story from when he used to skate in Athens. The interviewees discuss the work that goes into building skate parks.
ramps;skateboard park
6128
Skating and cultural influences
The dumb thing was we built ...
Stanziale talks about some of the skating contests held during the mid-80's. Eldridge recalls the impact that temporary skateparks had on the skating community, and the changes that occurred to the skating community over time with the introduction of concrete skate parks. The interviewees discuss the culture that developed from influence of both the skating and music communities of the 1980's.
concrete skate parks;music;ramp
Oral history
No transcript.
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http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL379AMP/findingaid
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with Rick Stanziale, James Greer, and Joe Eldridge, November 2, 2017
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Rick Stanziale
James Greer
Joe Eldridge
Curtiss Pernice
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2017-11-02
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Athens, Georgia
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Bands (Music)
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Sports
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Rick Stanziale grew up in Athens, Georgia during the 1980s, during which he was an avid skateboarder. Stanziale later joined his first band, The Problem Children during the late 1980s. James Greer was also involved in the skating scene and punk rock during the 1980s despite coming from a very religious household. Joe Elridge grew up skating in Athens, Georgia, though a serious skateboarding accident at the age of 16 inspired him to become more involved in the Athens punk rock scene as a bass player. In this interview, Stanziale, Greer, and Elridge talk about Athens’ skate parks, playing around Athens, and the cultural influences of skating.
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Goin' Back: Remembering UGA Oral History Collection
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Georgia--History, Local
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University and colleges--University of Georgia
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Goin' Back: Remembering UGA is an oral history project designed to preserve the memories of former students, faculty and staff, and higher administration officials of the University of Georgia. <br /><br />To learn more history of the University of Georgia, please visit the University Archives website, part of the Hargrett Rare Book and Manuscript Library.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=24&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Athens, Georgia
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5.3 Interview with Dan Magill, Part 1, April 21, 2006 RBRL407GBOH-002 RBRL407GBOH Goin' Back: Remembering UGA Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Dan Magill Fran Lane oral history 1:|6(11)|22(9)|33(1)|43(4)|54(10)|64(14)|72(10)|81(15)|96(11)|111(13)|124(11)|134(9)|148(3)|158(7)|172(5)|183(12)|194(8)|209(15)|228(6)|238(1)|246(1)|256(8)|270(12)|282(12)|294(1)|304(6)|317(11)|327(3)|339(10)|361(6)|371(6)|382(10)|390(12)|400(6)|410(3)|424(5)|432(15)|441(13)|452(6)|461(10)|478(5)|489(2)|503(12)|522(6)|533(5)|545(8)|553(8)|562(11)|573(6)|582(13)|594(6)|611(12)|623(11)|637(4)|658(9)|672(12)|683(11)|695(16)|708(10)|719(1)|731(3)|740(3)|749(10)|762(3)|771(9)|782(12)|796(11)|809(7)|821(7)|833(3)|846(7)|859(4)|871(10)|884(6)|894(3)|913(13)|922(11)|932(8)|944(4)|955(9)|965(2)|978(4)|989(2)|1005(9) 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_d0qkktpo& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_9p5fzpyw" ; width=" ; 608" ; height=" ; 402" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 77 Growing up in Athens Let's start at the beginning, and the beginning was right here in Athens. Magill remembers his formative years in Athens and the history of Athens Regional Hospital and the YMCA. He discusses his parents' education at UGA, his family's careers in print journalism, and his graduation from UGA with a degree in journalism in 1942. He recalls watching his first football game at UGA in 1929. Athens Banner ; Athens Banner-Herald ; Athens General Hospital ; Athens High School ; Athens Regional Hospital ; college football ; journalism ; Robert Park ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; Walter T. Forbes ; World War I ; YMCA ; Young Men's Christian Association 17 580 Working with UGA sports before college Talk to us a little bit -- I had read it somewhere that you were a bat boy and a manager of the tennis courts. Magill recalls various jobs he had at UGA before he attended college there, including cutting grass at Sanford Stadium, working as a bat boy in 1931, and managing the tennis courts while in high school. He discusses creating the Crackerland tennis tournament in 1939. He also remembers holding the chain for the 1949 Georgia-Alabama football game and swimming at the YMCA. baseball ; Charley Trippi ; college sports ; Crackerland tournament ; football ; Pleas " ; Clegg" ; Starks ; swimming ; tennis ; UGA ; University of Geogia ; YMCA ; Young Men's Christian Association 17 1123 Marriage / Work as sports writer and sports information director Did you meet Mrs. Magill while you were in college? Magill shares details on his wife's family history, her education at UGA, and their marriage in 1944. He recalls working as a sports writer at the < ; i> ; Atlanta Journal< ; /i> ; newspaper to promote high school sports. He remembers returning to Athens in 1949 to work as UGA's Sports Information Director and to organize Bulldog Clubs across Georgia. Atlanta Journal ; baseball ; Bulldog Clubs ; City All Stars ; college sports ; County All Stars ; football ; Georgia High School All-Star Football Game ; high school sports ; James Wallace " ; Wally" ; Butts ; Kappa Alpha Theta ; Spurgeon Chandler ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; Whitlow Wyatt 17 1577 Travelling with the Circus / Learning German I'm not sure, but that you give Ringling a run for his money, Coach Magill. Magill shares anecdotes about travelling across Georgia with the Ringling Brothers Circus when he was twelve or thirteen and learning German from former UGA baseball player John Morris. Charles Morris ; circus ; college baseball ; education ; John Marsh ; John Ringling North ; Ringling Brothers ; Sylvanus Morris 17 1904 Clegg Starks / Meeting Steadman Sanford Getting back to David Crenshaw Barrow, he lived on the campus and was president many years. Magill recalls meeting UGA Chancellor David Crenshaw Barrow and recounts the life of Pleas " ; Clegg" ; Starks. He remembers Clegg's athleticism and meeting Steadman V. Sanford, UGA Faculty Chairman of Athletics, while travelling on a train with Clegg. David Crenshaw Barrow ; Herman Stegman ; John A. Sanford ; Pleas " ; Clegg" ; Starks ; UGA ; University of Georgia 17 2243 Herman Stegeman's and Charlie Martin's Careers at UGA Coach Steg was really, uh, he was the greatest man I've ever known in athletics at the University of Georgia. McGill shares details of Herman Stegeman's family and career at UGA from his beginning as a coach for several sports in 1919. He recounts how Stegeman established the Southern Conference basketball tournament in Georgia in 1920 and convinced Yale to play the inaugural football game in Sanford Stadium in 1929. He details sports manager Charlie Martin's work as the unofficial sports information director for UGA and his role in getting privet hedges placed on the perimeter of the football field. athletic directors ; Bob McWhorter ; Charlie Martin ; college basketball ; college football ; college sports ; Herman Stegeman ; privet hedge ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; WASP ; Women Airforce Service Pilots ; Yale University 17 2736 The story behind UGA's Bulldog mascot Let's talk a little bit about when you came back and after you got the Bulldog Clubs going, how did we get Uga? Magill explains why the University of Georgia adopted a bulldog as its mascot in the 1920s and how Uga got his name. He reminisces on several of the mascots, particularly Uga V. college mascots ; Frank W. " ; Sonny" ; Seiler ; Sports Illustrated ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; University of Georgia School of Law ; Yale University 17 3076 Head Tennis Coach / Ty Cobb In 1954 you were named head coach of the tennis program... Magill recalls becoming tennis coach in 1955. He remembers interviewing baseball player Ty Cobb four times, shares details of Cobb's background, and recounts when Cobb invited him to dinner in Palo Alto, California in 1950. Albert Jones ; Charles Herty ; college tennis ; Ty Cobb ; Tyrus Raymond Cobb ; UGA ; University of Georgia 17 3450 Children and their education Let's go back, then, and talk a little bit about your family. Magill recalls getting leave from the Marine Corps to see the birth of his son in 1945. He shares details about his children's education. Chi Omega ; college tennis ; Emory University ; Princeton University ; St. Mary's Hospital (Athens, Ga.) ; UGA ; United States Air Force ; United States Marine Corps ; University of Georgia ; USMC 17 3910 Developing the tennis program ...but with -- you see, uh -- I had two boys who would -- that I, we didn't have any scholarships when I was tennis coach. Magill recalls his thirty-four year career as tennis coach and talks about developing local talent for the team. He remembers singer Kenny Rogers funding the Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame in 1983 and actress Kim Basinger donating to the tennis program. Billy Lenore ; college tennis ; Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame ; Danny Birchmore ; Kenny Rogers ; Kim Basinger ; Marianne Gordon ; UGA ; University of Georgia 17 4232 Best tennis athletes at UGA / Women in college tennis You won 706 tennis matches -- 706 to 183 was your record? Magill remembers some of the best athletes that he coached. He recalls his efforts to establish a women's sports program and how a female undergraduate, Becky Birchmore, secured a spot on the men's team. Barbara Dupree ; Becky Birchmore ; college tennis ; Danny Birchmore ; Manual Diaz ; Michael Pernfores ; women's sports 17 4733 UGA's greatest athletes and coaches / Closing thoughts You've seen some great athletes over the years, and not just in tennis. Magill recounts some of the greatest athletes and coaches he has seen at UGA. He also shares his thoughts on what makes a winning athletic team. college football ; college sports ; Francis Asbury " ; Fran" ; Tarkenton ; Herschel Walker ; Joel Eaves ; Pleas " ; Clegg" ; Starks ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; Vincent " ; Vince" ; Dooley 17 FRAN LANE: This is a “Goin' ; Back: Remembering UGA” interview with Dan Magill, long-time Sports Information Director and Head Tennis Coach at the University of Georgia, conducted by Fran Lane on April 20, 2006. We are at the ITA Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame building at the Magill Tennis Complex on the University of Georgia campus in Athens, Georgia. It' ; s springtime here in Athens' ; tennis season. Apropos to that, we are talking with Coach Magill, whose 60-years-plus relationship with the University of Georgia and its athletic program makes him truly a legendary figure in these parts. Coach Magill, thank you for being with us today. DAN MAGILL: Well, it' ; s a great pleasure to be here, and talk about Athens and the University of Georgia. LANE: Well let' ; s start at the beginning, and the beginning was right here in Athens. You' ; re an Athens boy, aren' ; t you? MAGILL: They say I was the first baby born at old Athens General Hospital, January 25, 1921. Most everybody was born at home before those days. Dr. Ralph Goss Sr. delivered me, and the hospital then was a three-story converted home, a beautiful old antebellum three-story home at the current site of the hospital. And later, just a few years later, they put in the first wing of the Regional Hospital which is there now, and they made the original hospital, a three-story home, they made it the nurse' ; s home, but it was torn down when they began building the brick wing of Athens Regional. But my mother and father were from Athens. My father was really from Hartwell, Georgia, born in Hartwell, Georgia. His father had been editor of the Hartwell Sun, James Thomas Magill. My father came to the University of Georgia. He was a senior at Georgia in April 1917 when war broke out with Germany. There were about twenty-five boys, not many students, in Professor (Robert) Park' ; s English class. Park Hall now is named for Professor Park, and Professor Park said to those twenty-five boys that day when Germany and the United States declared war on each other, he said, “Every red-blooded American boy should join the United States Army today, and fight for democracy.” The next day, there wasn' ; t any need for Professor Park to be at class. They had all joined the United States Army. And my father was in the American Expeditionary Forces in France during World War I. But he came--he never got to graduate. He just left about a month or two of graduating, but he came back and was married to my mother, who was Elizabeth Garlington Carroll, her father was editor of the old Athens Herald. Eugene Winston Carroll was his name, and he sold the Herald to the Athens Banner around 1920 and it became the Athens Banner-Herald. And my father worked for the Banner-Herald for many years and became the editor in the 30s and 40s. And my mother went to old Athens High School. She was very smart, graduated valedictorian. Mr. Ted Mell was principal then and he later was the principal, when I did not graduate valedictorian (laughter). But anyway, she was in the first women' ; s class at the University of Georgia, my mother. But she didn' ; t have to, but she quit school when I was born. So she never graduated either. But I did. They gave me a diploma in 1942 in journalism. But it' ; s been a great pleasure growing up in Athens as a boy, and I grew up at the Athens Y. I went, I started going there when I was about eight years old. And the Athens YMCA, like the University of Georgia, has really been a great institution. And then I grew up on the campus, hanging around the athletic field starting out as a boy. I' ; m getting my breath now. But I can tell about the Athens Y. LANE: Talk about the Y, was that Mr. Walter Forbes, was he there then? MAGILL: Yeah. The Athens YMCA is the third oldest YMCA in the United States. The oldest Y, the Young Men' ; s Christian Association, and there was a special college in Springfield, Massachusetts where the Young Men' ; s Christian Association physical instructors were turned out--they invented the game of basketball. And the first YMCA was I believe at Harvard. The second one was at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore, and the third YMCA in the United States was on the Georgia campus, the University of Georgia campus in the 1950s (correction: 1850' ; s). And the one who brought it to Athens was Thomas R. R. Cobb Institute, later General Thomas R. R. Cobb, killed in the battle of Fredricksburg while serving with Lee' ; s army in northern Virginia around the 1860s. And, you know, his daughter, they named Lucy Cobb, for General Cobb' ; s daughter. But the Athens YMCA that became open to everybody in town, especially boys, young boys, that I went to, was located on the corner of Lumpkin and Broad where the Holiday Inn' ; s parking lot is now. And the first physical director, I believe, was Walter Tallu Forbes, W. T. Forbes and he started the Athens Y camp up above Tallulah Falls. He was a great fellow, and it was appropriate that he be the first basketball coach at Georgia in the early 1900s, because, you know, the YMCAs up in Springfield invented the game of basketball. And they pioneered in the promotion of so many sports--gymnastics, softball, basketball. But I grew up as a boy at the Athens Y, and also hanging around the Georgia athletic field. When I was ten years old in 1931, well let' ; s say getting back two years before that, I saw my first football game. It was against Yale, in October 1929, they dedicated Sanford Stadium--30,000 fans in the stadium then. It holds 95,000 now. They had 18,000 seats on the north side and 12,000 on the south side, and everybody was talking about it. I was just eight years old, and everybody was talking about the big game, the big football game coming up. Well, I thought I could play in the game. I didn' ; t know it was between two colleges. So I went down to the game, I told my daddy I wanted to be there, and he got Charley Martin to pass me in, Charley Martin was the business manager, and he passed me through the gate and I had walked from home, in those days everybody walked everywhere, there wasn' ; t any automobiles, and I was dressed up in my football uniform. I had got it for a Christmas present. And Charley Martin passed me in the gate, and I said “where' ; s my daddy?” And he was in the press box, and he wasn' ; t a sports writer, but it was such a big deal, the governors of all nine southern states were there in ceremonies before the game. And I ran down to the press box and I found my daddy, and said “Daddy! They' ; ve already chosen sides!” I was so disappointed. LANE: You didn' ; t get to play. MAGILL: I didn' ; t get to play. But he said, “Yeah, you can go on down there, on the sideline.” There is a little sidewalk around the field, you know, and that' ; s where I watched the game from. I didn' ; t know anything about the game, but my biggest memory of the game was the Yale band was really fancy. The Georgia band was, the boys were just dressed in old military uniforms and they were nothing like the great Georgia band now today. But Yale had a crack band and they had on white helmets and blue coats, and they played a song that everybody, when they played this tune, everybody in the grandstand stood up and cheered, and I asked my daddy later on, what was that song? It was “Dixie”. They made a lot of friends playing “Dixie”. LANE: They did. Talk to us a little bit, I had read it somewhere, that you were a bat boy and the manager of the tennis courts. MAGILL: Well, as I say, I grew up on the Georgia campus. I used to cut the grass in the field. I even cut the grass with a push mower in Sanford Stadium as a boy. I wasn' ; t the head, though, there was a little fellow named Tom, and on hot days he' ; d get tired, and I' ; d say “Tom”, in fact his name was Uncle Tom, and he was an old fellow, and I' ; d say “I' ; ll cut the grass. You can just sit down here in the shade” so as a boy, I used to do all that. I was an All-American flunkie. And I grew up, I started off chasing foul balls. The baseball park then was at the bottom of Lumpkin Street and it was a big sport. Have I already told the story for you? LANE: No, so you go ahead and tell it, tell it again. MAGILL: Eventually I worked my way up to bat boy, and I had the most famous person, one of the most famous people in history at the University of Georgia teaching me how to stack the bats. It was Clegg Stark, the famous water boy. I want to talk at length on Clegg later on, because he grew up on the Georgia campus. He was President (David) Barrow' ; s cook' ; s son, and he lived in their home on the campus, but anyway that' ; s another story. But, baseball was a big sport in those days. The merchants closed the stores at 12:00 noon, and the band would assemble in front of our Arch and march all the way to the--Sanford Field it was called, Sanford Field at the bottom of Lumpkin, and I really was on the payroll at the University of Georgia at that time. It was 1931 or 1932, and I was ten or eleven years old, and the coach was old Bill White, and he told me he wanted me to clean up under the grandstand after every game. He said he had no money to pay me. It was just two years after the great Depression. The stock market blew up in 1929, and he said, “You can keep all the money you find”. And I found a lot of Indian Head pennies, which I still have. And one day, I found a silver coin, and I went up to Coach White, and said “Coach White, what is this?” He said “It' ; s yours. That' ; s a silver dollar.” I had never seen one. I showed it to my dad, and he made me go down to College Avenue at the bank where Howard McWhorter was manager, he was the younger brother of the great Bob McWhorter, and I started a bank account. But I don' ; t know what happened to that dollar, I think my dad had to spend it for food for us. LANE: Talk about your days, I know the tennis--I had read that you were manager of the tennis courts after that. MAGILL: Well, I did all kinds of flunkie jobs, and in high school I hung around the tennis courts and my senior year in high school when I was going to be a freshman at Georgia the next year, Johnny Broadnax actually was the business manager of the athletic department, and he told me he wanted me to look after the courts in the summer time. And he said that he had no money to pay me. We were still in the depression years, but that I could charge ten cents for anybody playing. Students, faculty, townsfolk, anybody, but I had to manage the courts. I had to ride my bicycle down in the morning, water them, drag them, and roll them, and line them off with wet lime then, and that' ; s how I got interested in tennis. And we used to have a city tournament, a northeast Georgia tournament, and I wanted to have a bigger tournament, bigger than the name, than northeast Georgia. So I didn' ; t give the name, my father gave it the name, the Crackerland. So the Crackerland tennis tournament began in 1939 and later on after the war, when I returned to Athens, it grew into one of the biggest tournaments ever held. When I retired as the director of tennis at Georgia in 1994, I thought they' ; d continue it, but it wasn' ; t continued. I did it just for the fun of it, and anybody carrying on that type tournament--there' ; s a lot of work for nothing. LANE: Tell us a little bit, I know, I had heard a story, and maybe you told it one time, Coach, and this maybe was after you were in college, but you were a member of an on-field crew during a football game, I think you were holding a down marker? MAGILL: Well that was the last time, yeah, when I was in college we didn' ; t have many managers on the football team. I used to field the punts, you know when the punters were punting, and also in the scrimmages I would hold the chain, you know, in the scrimmages. And this was in 1946. Georgia was playing a big game in mid-season against Alabama. Both teams were undefeated. Charley Trippi was our big star. They had a great All-American quarterback named Harry Gilmer, great passer. And I was a young sports writer for the Atlanta Journal then. I just got out of the Marine Corps, in fact, in December 1945, and I was working for the Journal. And I was just a young sports writer and I wanted to see that game, and they were going to send their older more experienced sports writers to cover the big game, Georgia and Alabama. But I said to Colonel Ed Danforth, I said “Please, let me go over there in some capacity.” I said, “I' ; ll ask Coach (Wally) Butts if I can hold the chain and I will write a sideline bar, you know.” So Coach Butts let me hold the chain. In those days, alumni, it was a great honor for them to hold the chain with an alumnus of the opposing team, and that day the opposing team' ; s alumnus was an old fellow, in his 70s or 80s. He had been captain of one of Alabama' ; s first teams. He was a lawyer in Birmingham. And on this particular play, Charley Trippi ran about forty-five yards down the field for a touchdown. And when I used to hold the chain on practices, you know, I' ; d run down the field with them. We would run down. Well, you wasn' ; t supposed to do that. An official chain holder wasn' ; t supposed to do that, but I ran down the field and jerked the little old Alabama guy, I carried him halfway down the field with Trippi and he was cussing me from here to kingdom come, and after that game, the Southeastern Conference or after that season said no more alumni will hold the chains. The chains will be held by regular striped officials. So that was-- LANE: You brought about another change. MAGILL: So that was a great honor for-- LANE: Tell us a little bit about your college years. I know you got an ABJ in 1942, but you played on the varsity tennis team and you swam? MAGILL: Well, there is a good story connected with the Athens YMCA. They had a good swimming program. They pioneered the development of swimming. We had a 20-yard pool, and the physical instructor was originally a guy named Clarence Jones, and he later became the trainer, and boxing, and swimming coach at Georgia, Jonesy. But, we used to win the state high school swimming championship every year. Athens High would win it every year. And I thought we were supermen, but I found out why we used to win it. There wasn' ; t but three swimming pools in the state of Georgia. One of them was in Athens, and the other one was at the Atlanta YMCA where Tech High and Boys High swam. But for some reason, we' ; d usually win it. I just figured it out, the other boys had to swim in rivers and lakes. But that' ; s another great thing that the Athens Y did. Develop a lot of swimmers. Have I already told about Thomas R. R. Cobb? LANE: Bringing the Y here? MAGILL: Yeah. LANE: Yes. MAGILL: I did tell you. LANE: Did you meet Mrs. Magill while you were in college? MAGILL: I was lucky to meet my wife from an old French family in New Orleans. Her father' ; s name was Louis Favreau-Reynaud from a very old French family, and in fact, this past summer they had their 250th family reunion. Five families down there had their 250th. That was before the United States became the United States ! There were Spanish and French that were down in that part of the United States and they called them Creoles when they intermarried, so there were five families. One of the families was the Reynaud, and the other family was the Favreaus, so they were two of the five families. But anyway, her father did not--the Reynauds started the Tulane University Medical School, but her father didn' ; t go there, he went to LSU and graduated with a law degree. And he happened to be head of the claims department at the Hartford Insurance Company in Atlanta when she was in high school. She went to old Decatur Girl' ; s High. And there were so many of her friends coming to the University of Georgia, that she came to the University of Georgia, was a Phi Beta Kappa, and president twice of Kappa Alpha Theta sorority, and I was real lucky when she agreed to marry me. She graduated in three years. It took me four and a half, but she graduated in 1943, I was in the Marine Corps. We were married in the old Episcopal Church here in Athens, in May, May 21, 1944. And we have--We lived in Atlanta when I worked with the Atlanta Journal for three and half years, but Coach Butts brought me back September 1, 1949 to--he wanted to build up minor sports. Give scholarships. And he wanted me to be assistant athletic director, to do that, help him. And I was looking forward to doing it. But the first week I was here, he lost his sports information director, and he said, “I want you to fill in the sports information director.” Well, I did fill in for about thirty, forty years. And also, we never did get to develop the minor sports because we began losing football games. Lost to Tech eight straight years. They were having, Bobby Dodd was in his heyday, they had fifty something thousand at all their games. Our attendance fell down to ten or fifteen thousand and had no money. But we did, Coach Butts was bemoaning that fact, and I told him “Our strength, Coach Butts, is in every county in the state. We are the majority party in the alumni. We' ; ve got more alumni than Atlanta, than Tech, so we ought to organize Bulldog clubs in all 159 counties,” and that' ; s what we did. We started in 1953. It took us several years to do so, but we organized and I spoke in all 159 counties of the state. And we had to organize three in a day sometime, in a small town at a breakfast meeting, or a larger town a luncheon meeting, a big town would be a night meeting, and in the big cities we' ; d have six or seven counties all belonging to the same (club). It took several years but we finally were organized, and we' ; d start every meeting, “Fellow Georgia Bulldogs, Chosen People, Members of the Great Majority Party of this Empire State of the South.” So that was a lot of fun. LANE: You were leading a rich, full life then. MAGILL: Oh yeah, I loved it, they say I was really enjoying my work. LANE: But very busy, I know. I want to go back and ask you real quickly. When you were at the Atlanta Journal, I' ; ve seen that you were credited with a number of things, but one of those was the Georgia High School All-Star Baseball game. MAGILL: Well, Georgia High School All-Star Football game. Yeah, I was a promoter in high school sports, the first real coverage of high school sports. They gave me free reign on Sundays. They gave me a whole page devoted to high school sports. The One Star edition went to South Georgia, and the whole page was just devoted to stories on the towns, the high schools in that part of South Georgia. Then the Two Star was to Middle Georgia. We replayed it, and the Two Star that went to Middle Georgia was Middle Georgia 2. The Three Star was to North Georgia, Athens, and then the Four Star, which we replayed it about 1:00 a. m. Sunday morning, it went to the Atlanta schools. That was a lot of fun, but they--Mr. George Biggers, who was the general manager of the Journal, saw the circulation was increasing in the small towns because of the high school sports coverage. He said, “Let' ; s us get in cahoots with the Georgia High School Association and put on the High School All-Star Football Game, co-sponsor.” They ended up putting it on at Georgia Tech at Grant Field, and didn' ; t have many fans. Well, I put it on twice and it was just the Journal' ; s tremendous promotion. They also owned WSB radio, which we had a little radio show too, promoting high school sports. Well, the first year it was 24,000 fans. The second year it was 28,000 fans, and that was the only two years the Journal co-promoted it, and it' ; s never been the same since. But we did the same thing in baseball. We had the County All-Stars meet the City All-Stars. We played in old Ponce de Leon Park and I brought in Spurgeon Chandler, a Georgia boy. He was a star pitcher for Georgia when I was a batboy and he later pitched on four world championship team New York Yankees. He came down and managed the County All-Stars. We brought Whitlow Wyatt, who had gone to Georgia Tech one year--he was from Cedartown, Georgia, and he had retired as a pitcher for the Brooklyn Dodgers. He was a great pitcher. He managed the City All-Stars. While he was there at that game, and we had a sell-out crowd, 13,000 for that game. I don' ; t think we charged but a quarter or 50 cents, but it was the biggest crowd, overflow crowd for that game. While Whitlow Wyatt was there, Earl Mann, the general manager of the Atlanta Crackers saw Whitlow. He said, “You ought to get back in baseball, Whitlow.” He signed him up to be the Atlanta Cracker' ; s manager and he later was the first manager that the Atlanta Braves had, Whitlow Wyatt. LANE: I' ; m not sure, but you gave Ringling a run for his money, Coach Magill! MAGILL: Oh, let me tell you something about Ringling. That' ; s one of my greatest memories. In the old days as boys, Ringling Brothers Barnum and Bailey was the biggest thing that happened to the boys in town. We just loved the circus when it came to town. I remember one time, John Ringling North, they' ; ve had some circus pictures in which different actors portrayed John Ringling North. Anyway, I was down at the old Athens Banner-Herald offices where the federal building is now, on Hancock. I was down at the old Athens Banner-Herald building when John Ringling North came in with some pictures and some stuff, material for my father to run in the Banner-Herald, telling about what the circus was going to have. I was there. I was about 12 or 13 years old, and John Ringling North asked my daddy--he said “Young Dan here, we' ; d like to take him on the cities we go to in Georgia, let him travel with the circus. I' ; ll have somebody look after him where the lions and tigers won' ; t eat him up.” That' ; s what he said. I said, “Oh Daddy, please let me go.” He let me go, and we went to Macon. We went to Columbus, Savannah, Augusta, just three or four towns, and that was the most thrilling thing, I believe I' ; ve ever been on, and the star of the circus then was a young trapeze star, the Great Wallenda. He was a young star then. He later became famous. He walked across the Tallulah Gorge later, but he was--in his youth, he was a star on the flying trapeze. Later on when he was old, he became famous for carrying his whole family on his shoulders, you know. He died in San Juan, Puerto Rico. They were dedicating some two new type of skyscrapers in San Juan, and he was walking across on a windy day, and if just one person falls, they all fall, and several of them died, including the Great Wallenda, but I' ; ll never forget him and John Ringling North. LANE: Well, did you go on the train, on the circus train? And travel-- MAGILL: Oh yeah. We went on the circus train, absolutely. I was scared to death every night, you know, that the tigers might get loose and eat me. So that was one of my most vivid memories of Athens. I wish they had--they don' ; t have the old circuses any more, do they? LANE: Not the same way, certainly not. So that' ; s--”wow” is all I can say. That' ; s a great story. You need to write that one up. Have you written that one? MAGILL: No I haven' ; t. But I am writing my memoirs now of the Marine Corps. I have a lot of funny stories in the Marine Corps. LANE: You need to write about your circus trip too. You said Coach Butts brought you in here in 1949, and the challenge initially was going to be to support minor sports. MAGILL: Develop minor sports. LANE: Then it was the sports information director' ; s job, but you did it all. You did everything. MAGILL: Well, yeah. Coach (Vince) Dooley has said that 30-something people now do the jobs that I did, the three jobs that I did. But I did it just for the love of money. But I did want to talk about one of the most colorful characters I knew in my many years hanging around. I was an All-American flunkie. I wasn' ; t an All-American tennis player or a swimmer, but I was an All-American flunkie. I want to talk about--I' ; ve known all the famous people at Georgia starting with the star catcher on Georgia' ; s first athletic team, baseball in 1886. I didn' ; t see him play, but I' ; m talking about John Morris. That was a famous family of Morrises. They came down from Virginia after the War Between the States and joined the faculty. Charles Ed Morris was one of three brothers. He was the star pitcher on the 1886 team, and his younger brother, John Morris was the catcher. The oldest boy was Sylvanus Morris. He was quite a character and later dean of many years for the law school and the former law school dormitory is named Morris Hall for him. Of course, I never saw John Morris or those fellows play baseball in those days, but John Morris taught me German when I was in college, and he must have had a great arm when he was a catcher, because when boys didn' ; t pay attention in his class, he would throw the blackboard eraser and hit them right in the head. One day he hit me in the head, but it wasn' ; t because I was not paying attention. I was paying attention. I was too scared not to pay attention. I didn' ; t want to get hit with that blackboard eraser. But the boy in front of me was the one he was aiming at, and he ducked and the eraser hit me in the head. But John Morris was--He later was faculty chairman of athletics. Getting back to David Crenshaw Barrow, he lived on the campus and was president many years. Barrow County was named for him and Barrow Elementary School. I went to Barrow Elementary School the first through the fifth grade. I met him when I was a boy. His son, David Crenshaw Barrow, Jr. , lived on Cherokee Avenue, just right across the street from me, and old Professor Barrow, they called him Uncle Dave, the students did in those days. But I met him when I was over there playing with David Barrow, III. I got to meet old Uncle Dave then. That was the only time I met him, but the best story on him, I think--or one of the best stories. He lived on the campus and his cook lived in the basement. Her son, a young black named Clegg Starks. His name was Pleas, but he was tongue tied. When he was 8 years old, he didn' ; t have to go but 100 yards over to Herty Field to watch the baseball team play, watch the football team play, and Alex Cunningham was the coach when Clegg went over there as a boy, and he asked him his name, and he says, he tried to say Pleas Stark, but he was tongue-tied, and Coach Cunningham thought he said Clegg, and he became known as Clegg Starks. But when he died, I wrote about him and his daughter said his name really was Pleas, Pleas Starks. And it wasn' ; t Stark, it was Starks too, so I had been misspelling it for a long time till after he died. But anyway, Clegg, later learned to throw a football 100 yards. It was due to his hanging around the fields as a boy. Then he later became the--he could throw a baseball faster than anybody I' ; ve ever seen. He won an All-Star Negro baseball game in Charleston, South Carolina, defeated the most famous baseball pitcher of his day, Satchel Paige, Clegg Starks from Athens, Georgia, beat him in that All-Star baseball game,--the halftime show at Georgia' ; s football games in the ‘20s. Coach Stegeman was my mentor, Herman Stegeman. I' ; d be down there as batboy and we' ; d both walk home up Lumpkin Street after practice. I' ; d just tag along with Coach Steg. He lived out there at the end of Lumpkin and I' ; d walk with him up there. But he--Clegg could throw the football 100 yards, and at half time of the Georgia football games, this was before they got into the new stadium, it would be Clegg throwing the football from one end of the stadium to the other. They used to have a lot of fun together when we played the eastern teams up in New York City or Yale in New Haven. The sportswriters would ask Coach Stegeman--he wasn' ; t coaching. He was the athletic director then. They' ; d say, “Do you have any new boys this year that we ought to keep our eye on.” He' ; d say, “Yeah, we got a boy who can throw the football 100 yards.” They said, “Oh, you can' ; t do that. We' ; ll bet big money you don' ; t have anybody that can throw the football 100 yards.” So then he' ; d call Clegg over. They' ; d make their bets. He would throw the football kind of side arm 100 yards. Clegg' ; s arms touched the ground. He had long arms. 100 yards and Coach Stegeman would collect the money. It was known as the Steg and Clegg act. LANE: You mention Coach Stegeman. How many athletic directors have you known, and-- MAGILL: Well, they used to have faculty chairmen of athletics. And Dr. Sanford was the first famous faculty chairman of athletics. The original Sanford Field was named for him. Then Sanford Stadium appropriately named for him. He originally--originally he had played baseball at Mercer University, but he came up to Georgia and he was an English professor. I first met Coach Stegeman on train trips. I stowed away on the train as a boy, going up to New York. The conductor knew I was there, but he didn' ; t care because I stayed in the lounge with Clegg. That' ; s where Clegg and I stayed, in the lounge. Dr. Sanford, after all the players and coaches had gone to bed, he would like to go into the lounge and have a libation of some kind. He and Clegg would have a libation. He never offered me a drink or anything, but he spent a little time, and that' ; s when I first knew Coach Stegg, and all the trips, if he wanted anything, I would be his flunkie. So I was a flunkie for Dr. Sanford and he was the first real athletic director--faculty chairman of athletics they called it. Coach Steg was really--he was the greatest man I' ; ve ever known in athletics at the University of Georgia. Herman Stegeman. He was a Dutchman. He was born in New Holland, Michigan, and he wore wooden shoes as a boy. He came to Athens around 1919. He had been in the YMCA program and they were the physical instructors for army outfits, YMCA men. He was at some army base when the war ended, and he had gone to the University of Chicago, was a great all-around athlete under Amos Alonzo Stagg, the famous coach at Chicago. He' ; d been one of his greatest athletes, his greatest all-around athlete according to Stagg. He got him a job at Georgia as assistant football coach, and head baseball coach, Stag did. He came to Georgia in 1919 and was the baseball coach. Then he later coached football three years, became athletic director, but he loved track and basketball and he coached them a long time. He coached track up through 1937, when we won the conference and Spec Towns was the big star of that team. But he was--I learned so much from him about athletics, eavesdropping. I' ; d listen to him talk to the different coaches because I was a flunkie hanging around the field. I' ; d listen to him talk to the alumni when they' ; d come. I' ; d just eavesdrop. I learned a great deal from him and I' ; m so glad they named Stegeman Coliseum, our basketball home, for him, because he started basketball in the south. They had teams, but they never had a tournament. In 1920, he started the first southern, it was Southern Conference then, basketball tournament. They played in Atlanta at the old City Auditorium. Georgia was an original power in basketball due to Herman Stegeman, a Dutch boy. He had a wonderful family too. He had twins, John Stegeman and Joanna. They were twins. Then his youngest daughter was Marion Stegeman. She married Ned Hodgson. She' ; s being put into the Georgia Aviation Hall of Fame April 30, at Robbins Field in Macon (Warner Robbins). She was a WASP, women' ; s air pilot, during World War II, Marion Stegeman. LANE: She flew. MAGILL: Yeah. She and I were in the first grade together. She skipped the second grade and passed me. (laughter) I' ; m talking too much. LANE: Talk to us a little bit more about--we' ; re talking about athletic directors now. So, early on it was Coach Stegeman-- MAGILL: Coach Steg was the athletic director a long time and he as much as Dr. Sanford, got the Yale team to come down and dedicate the stadium. Yale was the power up east and when we dedicated the stadium, we wanted to get Yale here. There were several things that got Yale to leave the east for the first time, to dedicate our stadium. It was a big honor to get them down here. One of them was the fact that our first (UGA) presidents came from Yale. They were Yale graduates. Another one was that Coach Stegeman was on the national football rules committee with some famous athletic directors, including the Yale athletic director. They had been long-time friends. So he really had as much to do with getting Yale to come down, friendship with the Yale athletic director, as Dr. Sanford did in pushing it. And I' ; ll tell you another fellow who was one of Georgia' ; s greatest people, was Charley Martin. He was business manager of athletics. He came to Athens in 1908 from middle Georgia, a little country town, and he was Bob McWhorter' ; s Boswell. Bob McWhorter was the big football star in 1910, 11, 12, and 13. Our first All-American in 1913. Charley Martin was what they called a sporting writer in those days. He wrote sports for the old Athens Banner. He was known as Bob McWhorter' ; s Boswell. A lot of people don' ; t know it, but Bob McWhorter Sr. was in school with Bob Jr. A lot of people I used to travel with the state Bulldog club, they would say “Did you know Bob McWhorter?” “Did I know Bob McWhorter,” I' ; d say. “We played in the same backfield together,” Bob McWhorter, Jr. and I' ; d play touch football at the University of Georgia. I never saw Bob McWhorter, Sr. play football, but I did see him play softball. He was in his late 40s. Faculty all stars were playing the university all stars in softball and we played on old Herty Field. I was playing center field and Bob McWhorter was in his late 40s and he hit the longest ball, softball home run I' ; ve ever seen. Home plate was right about where the Chapel bell is not far from here. It went over my head over the old Beanery where the landscape architecture building was later. LANE: Um hum. Denmark Hall. MAGILL: Denmark. But anyway, it went out of sight into Lumpkin Street. So he was some kind of an athlete, Bob McWhorter. Have I skipped something there? LANE: You' ; re doing great. MAGILL: I get off the-- LANE: Charley Martin. MAGILL: Charley Martin, yeah. Charley Martin was really a great man in the history of Georgia athletics. His counterpart at Alabama, the big goal for people after World War II was to get in the Rose Bowl, get an invitation to the Rose Bowl. And all schools wanted to get there. It was the biggest honor. They didn' ; t have but one bowl, the Rose Bowl, and whoever went there was national champion if they won. And Alabama went before we did. They were the first southern team to go in the mid-1920s. Charley Martin was business manager at Georgia, and he also really was the first sports information director too, but he didn' ; t have that title, just had title of business manager of athletics. But his counterpart at Alabama was a friend of his, and he let Charley go with the Alabama team to the Rose Bowl. He was so impressed by the roses, the rose hedge around the Rose Bowl, that he said, “We' ; ll do that at Sanford Stadium.” They were making plans then to build the stadium. But it was (not until) 1929, several years later, before they built it. That' ; s when he got the idea. No, they built the stadium and Charley Martin said, “We ought to have roses around it,” but the horticulturists said, “Roses won' ; t do here, they might work out there, but they won' ; t work here”. So they got the English privet hedge, privet Ligustrum hedge. Charley Martin is responsible for the “between the hedges”. But you know, Dr. Michael Dirr, our horticulture partner now, has a prettier hedge than the privet hedge now. He has Lorapetelam, which has a red blossom, and he--the hedge is right around the field, the famous privet hedge, the English privet Ligustrum, small leaf. They have a big leaf, but this is a small leaf. Then on the other side of the sidewalk right next to the stadium, now, Coach Dooley got it put in. He was interested in gardening, and Dr. Michael Dirr in Georgia' ; s horticulture department, he popularized a rise of the shrub, Lorapetelam, and that hedge is just magnificent. And people don' ; t know about it, but they know about the privet between the hedges, but that Lorapetulam is magnificent when in full bloom too. LANE: Let' ; s talk a little bit about when you came back and after you got the Bulldog clubs going. How did we get UGA? MAGILL: Well, in the old days, a lot of people mistakenly think that we' ; re the bulldogs because Yale had a (bulldog) mascot for a long time. But we didn' ; t do it because of our association with Yale. In the early 20s, Coach Stegeman had such a great defensive team and it tackled so ferociously that an Atlanta sportswriter around 1922 said Georgia' ; s defense was as ferocious as a bulldog, and that' ; s how they began calling them bulldogs. Gradually. And people originally, several alumni would bring bulldogs to the sidelines. None of them were the official bulldog, you know. But by 1942, our bulldog was an English bulldog. We had brindle bulldogs, and--but we had an English bulldog that some alumni in Columbus, Georgia, carried to the Rose Bowl. And there' ; s a connection between UGA and that mascot. We had a brindle bulldog in 1953 or ‘54. He used to live in the old field house where the Rankin Smith building is now. He lived in the attic and there' ; d be some boys on a minor sports team that used to live up there in the attic. They could live free up there in the attic, but they had to let the dog out and walk him and feed him and everything. But this brindle bulldog died. Coach Butts said, “Get us another mascot.” I put a story in the paper, we were looking for a new mascot. Anybody that had one, get in touch with me. Well, immediately a law school student, Frank Seiler, Sonny Seiler, came up to me. He said he and his wife, Cecelia have a little puppy, and I had known Sonny when he was on the swimming team at Georgia. So I went out to their apartment, I think it was somewhere on Milledge, and saw the little puppy. It was an English bulldog, white, and it looked all right to me. They told me that he was the grandson of our Rose Bowl mascot in Columbus. Cecelia was from Columbus. I think it may have been a cousin of hers that had the Rose Bowl mascot. I went to Coach Butts and I said “I' ; ll take you out there and you can see this little puppy and see if you think he ought to be the mascot, and by the way, he' ; s the grandson of your Rose Bowl bulldog.” He said, “I ain' ; t got time to go out there right now, but if he was the grandson of our Rose Bowl mascot, he' ; s got good blood, sign him up.” And that' ; s how Uga became our mascot, but he got the nickname, Uga, from Billy Young, a fellow law school student with Sonny Seiler, who was from Columbus. He said, “What are you going to name the bulldog?” Sonny said, “I don' ; t know.” He said, “Name him Uga for University of Georgia.” And it' ; s pronounced with mugga, it' ; s not ‘you-ga’, it' ; s ‘Uga’ pronounced with mugga. And that' ; s--and then Sonny Seiler and Cecelia and his family, all of them, have done the greatest job of a mascot, having carried on that dynasty of mascots of any school in the United States. They' ; ve just done a magnificent job and the first time we changed mascots, when Uga I was going to be replaced by UGA II, he was getting too old. We had a changing of the mascots, changing of the dog, and it was a ceremony on the football field. The band would play, and it was a good ceremony and the cheerleaders would get the students to yell, “Damn good dog.” That' ; s when that began. But Sonny and Cecelia and their children have just done one magnificent job. LANE: I nearly cried when we did it the last time. MAGILL: Yeah. No school has the history. And Uga V, who was nicknamed Magillicuddy, they named him for me, was mascot of the year and was on the cover of Sports Illustrated. And the greatest picture of Uga V was when he was--an Auburn player had caught a touchdown pass and UGA was in the end zone and the Auburn player taunted Uga. He taunted him. He went over there with the ball and was shaking the ball, and he made Uga so mad, he bit him. That' ; s a great picture. LANE: Came back to get him. MAGILL: I don' ; t know whether he bit him actually, but he tried to. It' ; s a great picture. LANE: In 1954 you were named head coach of the tennis program, and as I said earlier, you were leading a rich, full life. I don' ; t know how you did everything you did. MAGILL: Well, I became tennis coach in 1955 actually. Albert Jones was tennis coach. In those days there were very very few schools who had paid tennis coaches. They didn' ; t invest or even have scholarships. And those teams with coaches and scholarships dominated the sport. It was just a spring quarter sport and at most schools if somebody on the faculty had been a college player. Albert Jones was--you know had been captain of Georgia' ; s team in the mid ‘30s. He was a good player and a good coach. And he was certainly worthy of being coach, a paid coach, but they just coached for nothing and it was just a spring quarter sport. He was a law school professor, and when he became assistant to the president, Fred Davison, he had to give up his job coaching tennis. Coach Butts said for me to get a new coach. I tried to get Dr. Gerald Huff, head of the math department. He had played at SMU and coached at SMU, but he didn' ; t have time. I tried to get Dr. Robert West in the English department. He had been freshman coach at Georgia. He was coaching for nothing when I was a freshman, and he didn' ; t have time. So the boys on the team who I had played with in the summertime asked me to coach the team. I said, “Well, I' ; ll do it one year.” It was just two months. But I enjoyed it so much it was stress relieving, and I needed to have stress relieving because of all the work I' ; ve done. With all my jobs, I got to work at 7:00 about every morning, worked all day long, frequently to 8:00 or 10:00 o' ; clock, seven days a week, no vacations. I was a very poor husband and father, but fortunately, I had a wonderful wife who did a great job with our children. But it was stress relieving. I really liked it so much that I just kept it up. I really loved it. Tyrus Raymond Cobb I' ; ve got some stories on him. I had him down in 1957 for Dr. Aderhold to give him a lifetime pass. Ty Cobb, called the “Georgia Peach.” I had four interviews with him and he is the greatest guy. He wasn' ; t a mean guy. LANE: He wasn' ; t a mean fellow? MAGILL: Well, I can tell why he had a chip on his shoulder. It was because his father was killed. He worshipped his daddy, who was superintendent of schools. I can' ; t exactly tell this story. But his daddy had gone out of town and he came back to town unexpectedly one night. He couldn' ; t get in the house. So he went in the window and he was shot dead. LANE: Oh, my. MAGILL: It was either by his wife or her lover. LANE: Oh my. MAGILL: That ruined the young Cobb. He left town as a boy. He had a chip on his shoulder and when he was playing baseball at 18 or 19 years old for Detroit, he' ; d go into the towns and they would say, “Hey Cobb, who killed your daddy? Was it your mother or her lover?” And he would go up into the stands and just beat the hell out of the guys. And he had a chip on his shoulder all his life. It was due to that. And you can see why. Now I asked him one time. I had four interviews with him, two in ‘46, one in ‘50, and one in ‘57 just before he died. I asked him, I can' ; t talk about Cobb, though. I asked him, I said, “What' ; s that story about you sharpening your spikes?” LANE: Yeah. Going in with them filed. MAGILL: He said “That' ; s the biggest lie ever told on me. There have been a lot of them” he said. He said, “I would clean my spikes. All baseball players clean the mud off their spikes, and that story started. We were playing somebody and one of my teammates was up there on the dugout on the top cleaning his spikes, just cleaning the mud off, and they had a story, and there' ; s Ty Cobb sharpening his spikes so he can cut them when he runs the bases.” But Ty Cobb was something. God, he was great. He was so nice to me. I could tell some stories on him. In 1950 we were playing--well, I' ; ll tell it later. LANE: Go ahead. Tell your Ty Cobb-- MAGILL: Well, in 1950, we were playing St. Mary' ; s in San Francisco, Kezar Stadium, and Georgia' ; s first famous coach was, well the most famous coach they ever had was Coach Charles Herty, because he invented the process by which you make paper out of pine pulp, but he was not a football coach, he just read from the rule book, but he was most famous for that job he did inventing paper out of pine pulp, the process developed. But anyway, Pop Warner had been our coach, and later a famous coach of the Carlisle Indians, and Jim Thorpe, and famous coach at Pittsburgh, and he retired after coaching Stanford. He was living in San Francisco. And I asked Coach Butts, could we invite old Pop Warner to sit on the Georgia bench during the game? He said “Good idea.” So I did invite him, and he accepted. When I saw him, he was old, and I said “Coach Warner, how' ; ve you been doing?” He said, “I' ; m et up with arthritis.” So then I asked Coach Butts, you know, I said, “Can we invite Ty Cobb?” who was living in Palo Alto then. Can we invite him to sit on the bench? He didn' ; t go to Georgia, but in one of my interviews, he told me his daddy wanted him to go Georgia, to study medicine, but he went into baseball. Anyway, Ty said, “You can tell Coach Butts that I appreciate the invitation, but I don' ; t want to sit on the bench. Can' ; t see a damn thing from there.” [laughter] I said, “Well, how about sitting in the press box with me?” He said, “I' ; ll take you up on that, and how about coming out and having supper with me tonight?” And I did, in Palo Alto. He was very nice to me. LANE: That' ; s a great opportunity. Let' ; s go back then and talk a little bit about your family. Tell us what-- MAGILL: Well, I was just very lucky that Rosemary Reynaud agreed to marry me, May 21, 1944. And our first child was born about a year later, and I wanted to be present for his birth. I was stationed at a base in North Carolina, and Rosemary had left to be in Athens for the birth. I had asked for leave from the commandant of the Marine Corps, and I never got the leave. I was in San Diego in the dentist chair, getting wisdom teeth pulled. That' ; s what they' ; ll do for all officers before they go overseas. There' ; s no dentist out in the jungle. They had their wisdom teeth pulled. Well, this dentist' ; s name was Keyes, lieutenant commander Keyes, and I just asked him in making conversation, “Are you any kin to the movie star, Evelyn Keyes, who played Sue Ellen, Scarlet O' ; Hara' ; s younger sister.” He said “She' ; s my sister.” LANE: How about that! MAGILL: Anyway, just as soon as he had finished, while he was taking my wisdom teeth out, I heard on the base' ; s PA system, “Lieutenant Magill report to the adjutant' ; s office.” So after he took my teeth out and stuffed both jaws with cotton, I went to the adjutant' ; s office, and he said, “Lieutenant Magill, I got good news and bad news for you. The good news is the commandant has approved your request for leave, but it got lost in the shuffle when you were moving from North Carolina to out here at San Diego. The bad news is you ain' ; t got but three days left.” I said, “I' ; ll take it.” I wanted to be present for the birth. And the Marines, you' ; ve learned that they can do anything, so that was going to be a monstrous job for me to go back to Athens and be back to--He said “You gotta be back here by 0900 Monday.” This was Friday afternoon. But the Marines have a motto, “can do.” They can do anything, they say,” I can do it.” So I caught a plane over the mountains from the naval air station in San Diego to El Toro Marine Air Station right over the mountain, spent the night there. The next morning, I caught a Marine plane to Eagle Mountain Lake Marine Air Station in Texas. Ned Hodgson of Athens, a friend of mine, he was married to Marion Stegeman, was executive officer there at that air station, so I just went straight to his office, and said, “Ned, you got any planes going to Atlanta?” He said, “No, I don' ; t.” I said, “I need to get there.” I told him why. He said, “There' ; s a plane leaving in about a half hour from the Dallas/Fort Worth Airport.” I said, “Well, I can' ; t make that.” He said, “Yes you can. I' ; ll have my aide get in the jeep and rush you there, and I' ; ll call the airport and ask them to hold it if they can.” We got there on time. I got into Atlanta later that day, the afternoon, took a bus to Athens, and then I took a cab from the Greyhound bus station to Cherokee Avenue and that night Rosemary said “I think I' ; d better go to the hospital.” So we went to old St. Mary' ; s Hospital there on Milledge Avenue, no longer there. Early the next morning, Ham was born. My son Ham, Daniel Hamilton Magill, III. He was born early next morning. I kissed Rosemary and Ham goodbye, got the bus back to the Atlanta airport, caught an Army plane to Love Field in Texas, and then another service plane to Douglas, Arizona, took the bus into Tucson, Arizona, and early the next morning, got into San Diego and got there by 0900”, Can do,” you know, and two days later, shipped out to the South Pacific. That was my first baby, and later we had two daughters, Sharon Reynaud Magill, and then we had a daughter, Molly Harvey Magill, named for my great grandfather, Hugh Harmon Harvey from down in Jasper County, near Shadydale, Georgia. He had, after the war, you know--the one reason the (southern) United States has had so many more officers in the Army and Navy than any other section, is because after the Civil War, they had no money to go to college, but they could go free to West Point or Annapolis, and my great grandfather, Hugh Harmon Harvey, had an appointment to West Point, and he got his education there, served his minimum time in the army, and then he came back to Shadydale. One time I asked my grandmother. I said, “What did Papa Harvey do for a living?” She said, “Why he didn' ; t do anything. He was a gentleman.” [laughter] Oh, boy! LANE: Well let' ; s go back then again and let' ; s talk a little bit about your tennis. MAGILL: Well anyway, getting back to my daughters, Sharon and Molly were graduates of Georgia, and they were both Chi Omegas at Georgia and pretty girls. Sharon was Miss Cotton Bowl one year when we went out there, they' ; d let somebody at Georgia be the Miss Cotton Bowl. She was Miss Cotton Bowl one year. And Ham, though, didn' ; t go to Georgia. He was gifted, got his brains from his mother or my grandmother, I mean my mother too had brains, but his mother had brains. When he was in Barrow Elementary, the teachers told Rosemary that he was gifted, and he went to Choate Prep School. One reason she got the nursery school going is she needed some money to send him to prep school, but after the first year he got an academic scholarship to Choate, and he graduated valedictorian at Choate and he went to Princeton because his friends there at Choate were going to Princeton. He was a champion tennis player. He and I won the Southern Father/Son doubles five time. Anyway, he went to Princeton and graduated magna cum laude in three years in English. He was great in English. But he went to med school and I think the reason he went to med school was because Rosemary' ; s forebears were--had started the Tulane Medical School, and he got his med degree at Emory University. During the Vietnam war he was a doctor in the Air Force and now he' ; s got a cardiology group here in Athens, but he doesn' ; t play any tennis anymore, but you see, I had two boys that I--we didn' ; t have any scholarships when I was tennis coach. I just tried to develop Athens boys to be players, and we had one of them won the national junior singles. Danny Birchmore beat Jimmy Connors in the quarterfinals. Billy Lenoir was even better. He was probably the best player we ever developed here, but his daddy, Professor James Lenoir, was in the Law school. Billy was national junior boys 18 champion. But he went to the University of Arizona because Professor Lenoir' ; s oldest son, Carl Lenoir, had asthma so bad. That' ; s the reason he moved out there, due to the climate in Arizona. Billy went to Arizona made All-American and the Tennis Hall of Fame. Ham went to Princeton. If we' ; d had Billy Lenoir and Ham here at Georgia, of course, we had no scholarship, we' ; d have been better before we were. LANE: I was getting ready to talk about your tennis program. You coached 34 years, is that right, coach? MAGILL: Yeah. I really enjoyed coaching. It was stress relief. Yeah, we probably have the finest facilities here now. We became the mecca of college tennis. They put the Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame here because we were putting on the NCAA championships. We drew the biggest crowds. They put the Hall of Fame here, and I was trying to raise money for the Hall of Fame building. That was back in 1983. That was about the time Kenny Rogers married the beautiful Mary Ann Gordon of Athens. He had met her on the Hee Haw TV show. She was one of the pretty girls, never did say anything, just looked pretty. She--you remember Nurse Goodbody on that show? She wasn' ; t Nurse Goodbody, but she could have been. They moved to Athens. She had helped me in her high school days. She had helped me because her grandmother was the bookkeeper in the athletic department, Ma Gordon. She was the bookkeeper and she' ; d come down there to visit her grandmother, and her grandmother called me and said “Mary Ann' ; s getting in the way, I can' ; t balance the books. Put her to work.” I paid her 50 cents an hour helping in my office, folding envelopes, before they had folding machines, licking stamps before we had a stamp machine. Turned out to be the best investment I ever made. When she and Kenny were married, he built that palace out there near Colbert, Georgia, and he had taken up tennis. She brought him down here and wanted to know if he could play tennis. I said, “Sure.” Then shortly thereafter, he said he wanted to make a financial donation to the tennis program. I said, “We' ; re trying to get money for the Hall of Fame.” Well, he ended up paying the whole amount, $200,000. He was a natural athlete. He never finished high school, never went to college, and took part in sports, but he was a natural athlete and a great singer and made a lot of money out of it. We benefited by it. Originally, I put a bronze plaque in front of the building that said, “Thank you, Kenny Rogers, for your generosity to college tennis.” He said “Take that sign down.” I said, “You' ; re the boss.” I took it down. He said, “Put another one up there and say “Thank you Mary Ann and Kenny Rogers.” That' ; s the sign we have up there now, a bronze plaque. Then Kim Basinger, another real pretty Athens girl, helped us out a lot. When she was a girl, a real pretty young girl, she used to come down and watch her daddy, Don, and brother, Mick, play in our tournaments. I put her to work at my drink stand. When she was behind the counter, we sold more Coca-Colas than we ever had. She made more money on tips than I did the whole year. I never saw one man that didn' ; t give her a dollar or five dollar bill and say, “Keep the change, honey.” Never saw one woman tip her, though. They were jealous. She left Athens at a young age and went to New York to model--from there to Hollywood. I didn' ; t see her for about 15 years, but I kept up with her, reading about her all the time, seeing some of the movies. In the summer of 1990, we were having the Crackerland Tennis Tournament, and her brother Mick' ; s little boys were playing in the Crackerland tournament. They were good young athletes. One of them later was on the Georgia track team. She came up to me, she had on a bandana and dark glasses. I didn' ; t recognize her. She said “Coach Magill, there sure have been a lot of changes around the tennis court since I used to sell your Coca-Colas.” Then I recognized her. “Oh Kim, boy it' ; s good to see you.” The next day her brother said “Kim wants to make a donation to the tennis program.” He said “What do you need?” I said, “Well, the NCAA wants us to get lights here, so that we can wait around if it rains and play at night, play outdoors. This is supposed to be the outdoor championships.” He said, “What will it cost?” I said, “I swear I don' ; t know – between 80 and 100 thousand dollars, I guess.” The next day, Kim gave me a check for $90 thousand dollars and she was here for the dedication ceremonies, and did a wonderful job. LANE: You won 706 tennis matches. 706 to 183 was your record? MAGILL: They were matches here. That was the record at that time. All records are meant to be broken. I coached 34 years. Dick Gould, the great Stanford coach, coached 38 years, and he holds that record now, and I' ; m going to be out in Palo Alto. I' ; ve never been to Palo Alto in the daytime. I was there one night with Ty Cobb. Dick Gould has asked me to come out there. He' ; s putting it on, and he' ; ll do a great job, but I have to be there for the Hall of Fame induction ceremonies. I' ; m still the curator and chairman of the Hall of Fame committee. LANE: You won 13 SEC championships, 8 indoor and 2 national championships, is that right? MAGILL: That' ; s all right. Our greatest player was a little Swede named Michael Pernfors. I almost didn' ; t give him a scholarship. He wasn' ; t but 5 foot 7 and a half, but his coach down there at the junior college, Sanford Junior College, below Miami. There' ; s a Samford University in Birmingham. This is Sanford College below Miami. He wasn' ; t a good player as a junior in Sweden, but he was good enough. They didn' ; t even give him a scholarship to Sanford Junior College, but he went there and he played number two on the team. They had another Swede named Svenson, who played one. And he was undefeated at number two. Then he was undefeated at number one, and his coach, who I' ; d known, called me and wanted me to give him a scholarship. But by that time, we had choices of whoever we wanted to get really. We had become a power. I wasn' ; t going to give him a scholarship, but I had a call one day from one of my former players, named Paul Groth, a left-hander from Decatur, Georgia. He had played German team tennis, and he had also recommended Boris Becker to me. I got a letter from Boris Becker saying “Dear Herr Magill, thank you for the scholarship offer, but I' ; ve just been selected to the German Davis Cup team and I won' ; t--.” This was the same time I could have had Becker and Pernfors, but he turned pro. Paul Groth called me up and he said, “I understand you' ; re interested in this little Swede, Michael Pernfors.” I said, “Yeah, have you ever seen him play?”He said, “Yeah, he just beat me in the finals of professional tournament down here. I played as a pro, he played as an amateur.” I said, “Well, he' ; d be good enough to make our team. I may be interested in him.” He said, “You better give him a scholarship. He' ; ll be the best damn player you ever had.” And he was. I gave him a scholarship, and at that time, you couldn' ; t work out. I don' ; t know whether you can to this day. You couldn' ; t work out a player if you' ; re visiting. So on his visit to Athens he couldn' ; t work out. I didn' ; t know what kind of player he was, never seen him play till September of his first year. He only played two years. He was a junior college graduate. September of his first year, that was the fall of 1983. We had boot camp two weeks before school. I was working them out twice a day. His first workout, my assistant coach was Manuel Diaz, who did a great job as a head coach, and Pernfors could hit the ball off balance better than anybody I' ; d ever seen. He was just very agile--very strong from the waist up. I said, “That little Swede--he' ; s going to more than make our team. He' ; s going to be our number one player.” The next day, Pernfors was really trying to show me how good he was. He just pulled out all the stops. He was hitting the ball a mile a minute, and I turned to Manuel, I said “That boy is good enough to win the NCAA tournament. He' ; s caught on to my coaching faster than anybody I' ; ve ever had.” (Laughter)And he did win the NCAA two straight years. And he' ; s been a great friend. He is now--He had tough luck. His high school sweetheart died in an automobile accident in Sweden, but he married late in life, a Swedish girl named Hansen, and they had a little boy a couple years ago. He had an unusual name, it' ; s a Swedish name, called Figge, Figge--they' ; ve got a little boy now. LANE: What other players from your team-- MAGILL: Oh, we' ; ve had a lot of great players. LANE: You mentioned Danny Birchmore. MAGILL: Danny Birchmore was a wonderful player, and Norman Holmes was a wonderful player. He was from Florida. And Manuel, Coach Diaz, was a wonderful player. Oh, quite a few. LANE: Talk about Becky Birchmore, Coach. MAGILL: Now Becky was a good player too. I taught Becky how to play. I tried to get a women' ; s athletic program started in Georgia when we had the Wickliff twins in Athens. They used to play on our courts in the early ‘50s, but the women in charge of women' ; s intramural athletics, they didn' ; t want an athletic program. They didn' ; t need Title IX. All they had to do was just have the women in charge of women. They could have had the women' ; s program. Then I tried to get them to have a women' ; s program when Barbara Dupree, Sterling Dupree' ; s beautiful daughter, she became state women' ; s champion. They still didn' ; t want a women' ; s athletic program. So Barbara Dupree had to settle for being Phi Beta Kappa and campus beauty queen, and having a beautiful daughter, who was on “Entertainment Tonight,” Julie Moran. She was Julie Brown originally because Barbara married a baseball player at Georgia named Brown from Thomasville. She became selected one of 50 most beautiful women on television, or in the world, Julie Moran. But anyway, and then we had Becky Birchmore. Becky was a talented girl player. Danny was talented. Becky was talented. Of course, Fred was even more talented, their father, Fred, who rode his bicycle around the world, you know. He was an accomplished boxing champion. I could talk forever on Fred. But Becky, about the time she was in college, in the mid ‘60s, the Southeastern Conference said women can take part in college athletics if they can make the men' ; s team. Some of them made it in swimming as a diver, and some of them made it in tennis. Becky earned her letter in tennis at Georgia. She couldn' ; t make our men' ; s team. I played her as a substitute, though. Fred helped me at the courts. I didn' ; t have any help except me and Fred. He' ; d drag and roller because he loved to work. Loved physical exercise. He could work all day. Becky played on our team, and I played her as a substitute, and she never lost a match. She won in singles and doubles. It' ; s the only girl ever made a letter on a men' ; s athletic team at Georgia to this day. When she was awarded, given an award at the Intercollegiate Tennis Association, given to people--former tennis players who have made lifetime achievements, great, she was head of the dermatology department at Harvard. She got some kind of an award, several thousand dollars that she was supposed to give to her college for their women' ; s tennis program. But Becky stipulated that it not be for women, that it go for the men' ; s program, and that' ; s a true story. LANE: You' ; ve seen some great athletes over the years, and not just in tennis, but if you were--what would be MAGILL: Well, Clegg Starks was one of the greatest, the old water boy at Georgia. He could throw a football a hundred yards, and he threw a baseball the fastest. He was one of the greatest, and it' ; s too bad they had not--too bad that it was a long time later before they broke the color barrier. Jackie Robinson, who was a great athlete at UCLA, but he was born in Cairo, Georgia, Jackie Robinson was. But, of course at Georgia, we' ; ve had so many great ones, Bob McWhorter. I didn' ; t see him play, though, except softball. Herschel Walker, was a great one, and Francis Tarkenton. We' ; ve had some great quarterbacks. I think Francis Tarkenton, Athens boy named for the great Methodist bishop, Francis Asbury. Francis Tarkengton' ; s daddy was a Methodist preacher. Tarkenton grew up at the Athens Y. He' ; s a product of the Athens Y too. He used to play ball games out on Sanford Stadium before the regular game. The kids would play with each other out there. Then he led Athens High to the State High School Championship, beat Valdosta on Sanford Field one time. Then he led us to the conference championship. In pro ball, he was even greater. He led the Minnesota Vikings to three Super Bowls, and his coach at Minnesota, Bud Grant, said Tarkenton was the greatest quarterback ever to play in the NFL. He is in the National Professional Football Hall of Fame. He is in the National Collegiate Hall of Fame. When we had our coronation party for the ‘59 championship team, Harold M. Walker, our beloved poet laureate, ended a great toast to him.” Here' ; s to Athens' ; favorite son, the fearless pilot, Tarkenton.” [laughter] MAGILL: Well, of course two of Georgia' ; s greatest presences in athletics were Joel Eaves. I had seen him play high school sports. He used to play for Old Tech High, and I' ; d seen him when he played for Auburn. He was a three-sport star in football, baseball, and basketball. He loved basketball. We dedicated the Stegeman Coliseum on George Washington' ; s birthday in 1964. He wanted the biggest crowd he could get. We ain' ; t going to turn away anybody. I promoted it, and we didn' ; t turn anybody away. We sold all the tickets. We let everybody in. They sat in all the aisles. They sat out on the court. Their feet were on the boundary line. We had 15,000 fans there for the game, and we won the game over Tech. But, Coach Eaves got cussed out afterward because the fire marshal said “You broke all the fire marshal' ; s rules.” Never again has there been that crowd. They wouldn' ; t let them sit in the aisles. They wouldn' ; t let them sit on the court, but that was a great thrill and Coach Eaves loved basketball. In fact, the basketball gym at Auburn is named for him. And Coach Dooley, certainly was a great football coach at Georgia. His teams didn' ; t make many mistakes, and I think that was really due to his training in the Marine Corps two years. They teach you not to make any mistakes. And his teams--if you don' ; t make any mistakes, you can stay in the ball game if you don' ; t get any penalties. He had great control. His teams controlled the ball. They didn' ; t make many mistakes. Well-disciplined teams. His teams made a lot of money and it enabled them to put that money into other sports. Football is the king sport. It pays for practically all the other sports, you know, and Coach Dooley' ; s winning teams helped put Georgia' ; s other teams on the map, giving them the--and it helped us have great facilities. LANE: Well, anything you' ; d like to tell us? Any words of wisdom. A remarkable life and a remarkable memory, Coach Magill-- MAGILL: Well, I could talk forever. There are so many people I haven' ; t named at Georgia. So many people. LANE: I was going to say, we' ; re going to have to do a part two sometime. MAGILL: Well, I' ; d love to do it, because I can talk forever on. But I have learned what it takes to win in athletics. You' ; ve got to get the horses to win the race. You' ; ve got to have the materials. You' ; ve got to have coaches that do more good than harm. It' ; s the horses that win the race, not the coaches. Coaches that do more good than harm are all right. Thirdly, you' ; ve got to be lucky. You' ; ve got to get the breaks, don' ; t have your good players hurt, put in jail, or flunking out, and then it also helps a lot if who you' ; re playing' ; s best player is hurt. [laughter] Those are the things it takes to win. LANE: Those might be great words of wisdom to end on today. MAGILL: All right. [END OF INTERVIEW] Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL407GBOH-002.xml RBRL407GBOH-002.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL407GBOH/findingaid
Location
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Athens, Georgia
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85 minutes
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with Dan Magill, Part 1, April 21, 2006
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RBRL407GBOH-002
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Dan Magill
Fran Lane
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video
oral histories
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Coverage
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Athens, Georgia
Subject
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Journalism
Sports
Coaches (Athletics)
Description
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Magill discusses his early life in Athens and working on UGA’s athletic fields before enrolling at the University and graduating with a degree in journalism in 1942. He remembers working at the Atlanta Journal newspaper covering sports, the Sports Information Director for UGA in 1949, and serving as the head tennis coach. He talks about the best athletes he has seen from the University, particularly tennis players.
Date
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2006-04-21
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moving image
OHMS
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Goin' Back: Remembering UGA Oral History Collection
Subject
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Georgia--History, Local
University and colleges--History
University and colleges--University of Georgia
Description
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Goin' Back: Remembering UGA is an oral history project designed to preserve the memories of former students, faculty and staff, and higher administration officials of the University of Georgia. <br /><br />To learn more history of the University of Georgia, please visit the University Archives website, part of the Hargrett Rare Book and Manuscript Library.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=24&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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2006-2016
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL407GBOH
Coverage
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Athens, Georgia
Oral History
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5.3 Interview with Dan Magill, Part 2, May 9, 2006 RBRL407GBOH-003 RBRL407GBOH Goin' Back: Remembering UGA Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Dan Magill Fran Lane oral history 1:|4(13)|17(2)|25(5)|35(7)|48(3)|59(4)|69(1)|79(7)|87(13)|99(1)|109(14)|118(8)|128(9)|143(6)|153(3)|165(13)|175(5)|185(8)|197(10)|209(13)|233(6)|244(15)|253(10)|263(9)|275(4)|294(11)|304(9)|313(15)|324(3)|337(10)|348(1)|358(13)|373(13)|385(2)|395(5)|409(8)|418(5)|427(7)|435(9)|446(5)|459(13)|470(3)|479(17)|490(10)|499(7)|513(1)|522(14)|530(13)|542(4)|550(11)|559(4)|568(4)|576(10)|587(10)|600(7)|628(3)|644(3)|655(2)|664(12)|673(18)|681(5)|689(11)|699(11)|708(15)|718(10)|734(8)|749(6)|762(4)|774(1)|796(2)|806(3) 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_g3jbvuv7& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_9gv16q18" ; width=" ; 608" ; height=" ; 402" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 67 Cavalry at UGA We had a -- we had cavalry here on our campus. Magill recalls the ROTC cavalry drilling on UGA's campus and his involvement in the cavalry while an undergraduate. Cavalry ; Civil War ; James Ewell Brown " ; Jeb" ; Stuart ; Nathan Bedford Forrest ; Reserve Officers' Training Corps ; ROTC 17 316 FDR visits UGA / Campus in the 1930s One of the other things you had mentioned to me was a visit by Franklin Delano Roosevelt to campus... Magill recalls President Roosevelt visiting UGA in 1936. He details what UGA's campus looked like in the late 1930s and early 1940s while he was an undergraduate. Andrew Erwin ; Eurith Dickinson " ; Ed" ; Rivers ; FDR ; Franklin Delano Roosevelt ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; Warm Springs 17 794 Herty Field / Sanford Field / Sanford Stadium Herty Field was where it all started, right? Magill details the locations where UGA hosted its athletic meets from 1886 to 1929. He recalls watching his first football game at the Sanford Stadium inaugural game in 1929. Charles Herty ; college baseball ; college football ; college sports ; geography ; Herty Field ; landscape ; Mercer University ; Sanford Field ; Sanford Stadium ; Steadman V. Sanford ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; Yale University 17 1267 Naval Pre-Flight School at UGA / Foley Field Talk to me a little bit, I remember an old, a baseball field out across from where the Georgia Center is now... Magill recalls the removal of Sanford Field when the Navy built their pre-flight training facilities on UGA's campus in 1942. He details the consequent creation of Foley Field in 1967 for the baseball team and talks about its namesake, Frank Foley. college baseball ; Frank Foley ; Navy Pre-Flight School ; UGA ; United States Navy ; University of Georgia ; World War II 17 1514 History of UGA tennis program We've talked about all, uh -- we've talked about a lot of facilities ; we've not talked about the tennis facility... Magill recalls the history of tennis at UGA beginning in the 1890s. He notes where the courts were originally and where they were subsequently relocated. He also mentions how UGA became the semi-permanent host of the NCAA tennis tournament after hosting the 1972 tournament, and names some of the famous tennis players who have played in the tournament. college tennis ; National Collegiate Athletic Association ; NCAA ; UGA ; University of Georgia 17 1868 Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame The hall of fame is located here because it was considered the appropriate spot since we were hosting the national championship. Magill recalls how his association with a young Marianne Gordon resulted in singer Kenny Rogers funding the construction of the Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame at UGA. He lists some of the artifacts in the Hall of Fame. college tennis ; Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame ; Kenny Rogers ; Marianne Gordon ; UGA ; University of Georgia 17 2115 Jim Whatley Coach, let's talk a little bit about some of the interesting personalities that you've known over the years... Magill talks about Coach Jim Whatley's career as a football player for the University of Alabama, minor league baseball player, and UGA basketball coach. Adolph Rupp ; college basketball ; college football ; James W. " ; Jim" ; Whatley ; UGA ; University of Alabama ; University of Georgia 17 2440 Spec Towns Did I tell about how Spec Towns got his scholarship? Magill recounts how Spec Towns earned a scholarship for track at UGA in 1933. He also details Towns' success in the 1936 Olympic Games and the oak tree Adolph Hitler awarded him for his first place finish. He talks about how Spec got his nickname and how the Spec Towns Track at UGA got its name in 1964. Adolph Hitler ; college track and field ; Forrest Grady " ; Spec" ; Towns ; Olympic Games ; Spec Towns Track ; UGA ; University of Georgia 17 2930 Dean William Tate Talk to us a little bit more about Dean Tate -- you know, everybody has a Dean Tate story. Magill recalls William Tate's track career at UGA in the early 1930s and shares some anecdotes regarding Tate's tenure as Dean of Men. college track and field ; Herman Stegeman ; John Morris ; Sylvanus Morris ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; William Tate 17 http://tate.uga.edu/content_page/history-of-tate Background on Dean William Tate 3242 Eugene Odum / Dean Rusk Talk a little bit, coach, about Dr. Eugene Odum, one of our most famous faculty. Magill recounts Eugene Odum's tennis career and Dean Rusk's career as chief of war plans, Secretary of State, and professor of law at UGA. Chiang Kai-shek ; college tennis ; David Dean Rusk ; Eugene Odum ; Joseph Stilwell ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; University of Georgia School of Law ; World War II 17 3541 UGA students killed in World War II Talk then about -- you mentioned the war -- talk about, uh, those, those folks you knew. Magill recalls his proposal to erect a memorial honoring UGA students who died while serving in World War II. He names his eight classmates who died in combat and details who they were and how they died. memorials ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; World War II 17 3914 Concluding thoughts Coach Magill, let's talk a little bit about you. Magill recalls some of the honors he's received while working at UGA. He remembers his parents' education at UGA and discusses his plans to write a book about his experiences in the Marine Corps during World War II. He recounts his experience playing in the National Negro Table Tennis competition in 1945. UGA ; United States Marine Corps ; University of Georgia ; World War II 17 FRAN LANE: This is “Goin’ Back: Remembering UGA” interview part two with Dan Magill, conducted by Fran Lane on May 9, 2006. Can we just get started? Coach, let’s just jump right back into this. You know there are some things, that I would imagine that our current students would not have an idea ever happened on this campus. Some things that they would be surprised about, interested in, and one of those things would be that we had cavalry here on our campus. DAN MAGILL: We certainly did. For many years they had the cavalry ROTC and they rode the horses and had the drills on a field that was right back of the military building that is still there on Baldwin Street in front of Park Hall. But in back, there was a flat area where the infantry drilled and where the cavalry drilled. All southern boys, I think most southern boys, wanted to be in the ROTC cavalry, and ROTC was required in those days in high school and college. They didn’t have cavalry in high school, but they certainly had it available in all the big colleges as well as infantry. And now of course, they have Air Force too. But, all southern boys wanted to be in the cavalry, most of them, because they remember the great history of the War Between the States, and the south certainly had the greatest cavalry divisions. Lee’s great cavalry leader was Jeb Stuart, and he was killed in May 1864, and it was a great loss when he was killed leading the charge. Then, Nathan Bedford Forrest was a great cavalry leader. General William Tecumseh Sherman thought he was the greatest cavalry leader he had ever seen and he called him “that devil, Forrest.” After the war, being interviewed one time, a writer asked General Forest what he attributed his success to, and he said, “I always believed in getting that firstest with the mostest.” And then I, in particular, wanted to be in the cavalry not only because of the tradition of Jeb Stuart and General Nathan Bedford Forrest, but because of Tennyson’s great poem, The Charge of the Light Brigade. That was such a wonderful poem about the British brigade that was wiped out, I believe, fighting the Russians in an old war. But, and I was in the cavalry class at Georgia, but I didn’t get a commission in the cavalry because to get a commission in the summertime, you had to go to Fort Oglethorpe up near Chattanooga in the summer. I spent every summer running the Georgia tennis courts in front of LeConte Hall in those days. But I did get a commission in the United States Marine Corp, but we didn’t have any cavalry, and I’m glad we didn’t. Wouldn’t want to make a cavalry charge in World War II against tanks. LANE: Talk a little bit, coach, about where the physical setup, the horses. You had mentioned at one point the-- MAGILL: Oh yeah. The horses we had wouldn’t have been able to lead much of a charge. They were old horses. The younger horses were at bases where they would be needed in case they were used in war. These were old horses and the stables were located almost where the Georgia Continuing Education Center building is. But I remember we would ride the horses out into-- oh, just for miles in the south part of the campus. The University of Georgia’s acreage, I’ve been told, is the most acreage of any university in the United States, but it was--there were no buildings where we rode, no paved road. We just rode through the fields and rode back. I haven’t been on a horse since then. That was 1941. LANE: Well, we are now talking about days of the past at the University. One of the other things that you had mentioned to me was a visit by Franklin Delano Roosevelt to campus. MAGILL: I think he is the only sitting president who has ever visited the campus and made a speech. I think it was in the summer, late summer--I know it was in the late summer of 1936. He was to come here and get an honorary degree. It also was in the summer when he had begun campaigning for his second term as president. My father was editor of the Athens Banner Herald at that time. I was a 15-year-old boy. He said I could go with him down to the train station at the end of College Avenue and watch President Roosevelt get off the train and get in a convertible and ride to the field. Well, my father also was a friend of Governor Ed Rivers, and he was down there with Governor Rivers, who was giving the President a state welcome. While I was there, just eavesdropping to what my father was saying to Governor Rivers and others, Governor Rivers gave me a $10 dollar bill, maybe a $5 dollar bill, but anyway it was a bill. I’d never seen a bill. It was during the depression years-- and asked me to go to the train station and get him a box of cigars. So I did, and when I came back I gave him the cigars and the change, and he told me I could keep the change, and it was several dollars. Now I didn’t meet President Roosevelt. I saw him step off the train and get into a convertible, but I did see a very interesting thing down on the field. They built a platform out in the center of the field on the north side of the stadium facing the south side. They had a good crowd there. He came in the west end of the stadium, you know, that runs into Lumpkin Street. He was on a convertible and there were all kind of people standing on the running board. I think they were FBI men, G-men, and somehow or another, he got up, climbed up to the platform, and in those days, there are few people that knew that he was an invalid. He had been a strapping fellow, a tall strapping fellow in his younger days. I think he was out of college when he got infantile paralysis. Anyway, he stood up straight and made a great talk. I don’t remember what he said, but when he left--I’ll always remember when he left. His convertible stopped just as he was going to ride out of the stadium area, when another tall, handsome fellow--he was the Mayor of Athens at that time, and his name was Andrew Erwin, and in 1920, he had been a delegate to the US Democratic nomination for President in New York. Ohio Governor, Jim Cox, whose family owns the Atlanta Journal Constitution now, was running for President and got the nomination for President, and Franklin D. Roosevelt got the nomination for Vice President. One of the nominating speeches for Roosevelt was given by Andrew Erwin of Athens. This must have been prearranged, but anyway, the convertible stopped and Roosevelt stood up, and he waved to Andrew Erwin, who was standing over close by, and he said, “Hi, hello Andrew. How are you my boy?” And they shook hands. I’ll never forget that. LANE: Coach Magill, FDR had a relationship with us because he was down at Warm Springs. So he felt a special relationship with Georgia, do you think? MAGILL: Oh, he certainly did, I’m sure. Yeah, he spent a great deal of his life and he died at Warm Springs. Died at Warm Springs. He died early in 1945. I know I was in San Diego Marine Station getting ready to go overseas when he died. Harry Truman succeeded him as President. LANE: Well, we’re talking about the ’30s in Athens. Talk to us a little bit about how the campus looked in the ’30s and ’40s. MAGILL: Well, I hung around the athletic fields as a boy, starting in 1931. Flyball chasing, batboy on the baseball team on the campus. Then when I went to school, as a freshman in the fall of ’38, practically all of my classes were in what we called the Academic Building right there by the Arch. I know I had English there under Robert West, math, Professor Strong, I believe, and history in that building. I did have geography in another building not far from there, and journalism, of course was in that area where the Terry School of Business (is now). They had half of it and half of the other building was the journalism school. We only had about 3,000 students then. Everybody knew everybody else, and the professors knew all the students. When they called on them, they would call them by name. Those were the good old days. And there wasn’t much on the south side of the campus above Sanford Stadium except Ag School students. Conner Hall had been built, I believe, and Soule Hall had been built. We had women students then, but my wife at that time, they had women students, but they lived on the Coordinate Campus. She lived in Miller Hall, I believe, over there. LANE: That’s the Navy School now? MAGILL: Now the property of the US Navy, but it used to be--and even before women were admitted to Georgia, they used to have a women’s school up there. I know Professor Jerry Pound, the grandfather of my mother’s sister’s husband--Pound Hall up there on the campus is named for him. His son, Merritt Pound, the first, used to be the head of the political science department of Georgia, and his son, Col. Merritt Pound, Jr., my younger first cousin, after the Vietnam War, came back to Athens and headed ROTC program here. He’s retired now. LANE: Talk about--you-- MAGILL: The athletic field had moved from one place to another. LANE: Right. I was going to say Herty Field was where it all started, right? MAGILL: Herty Field was our first athletic field. It wasn’t called Herty Field then. It was a flat area close to the chapel, in back of the chapel. It was used for years by military students, even during the War Between the States it was. Students trained there and drilled there. The first sports were baseball in 1886 and track and field. They were in 1886. They were played there. Then, in 1892, in January 1892, we played our first football game against Mercer. But our most memorable game was against the second game. The only other game we played that year was against Auburn in Atlanta. We lost that one, but we beat Mercer. The fellow who introduced football to the Georgia students was not a football coach. He was a great chemist. He got his graduate degree. He went to Georgia. He was from Milledgeville, I believe, named Charles Herty, and he had gone to Johns Hopkins to get a graduate degree in chemistry, and he saw football played. He liked it and he brought a rulebook back, and he read the rules to the Georgia students that year and coached the team that year. He wasn’t a real coach. Then he turned it over after that one season, but he became one of the greatest men in the history of the United States. He later developed the process by which paper is made from pine pulp, and that is certainly one of the greatest industries, if not the greatest industry, in the world today. He didn’t make a penny out of it, but a lot of people--Charles Herty. LANE: Our stadium, Sanford Stadium, the one that we all know now, was built in the late ’20s, is that right? MAGILL: We moved from Herty Field, the athletic area moved from Herty Field in 1911 to an area at the end of what is Lumpkin Street now, down in the Tanyard Creek hollow. You know Tanyard Creek where it starts across Lumpkin and goes under the street at the bottom of Lumpkin, under the stadium actually, all the way into the old Oconee Hill Cemetery, Tanyard Creek. I have walked it many a time as a boy underneath the stadium into the area by the river. The faculty chairman of athletics in the old days when they played on Herty Field later was Dr. S.V. Steadman Vincent Sanford, and they named the new athletic field down there in 1911 Sanford Field. That was the first Sanford Field. It was the--the grandstand--it was just magnificent in those days--It was built for a baseball crowd. It had a roof on it. One part of the grandstand went down the first baseline. The other part, down the third baseline. It would seat over 3,000. They would put other bleachers when they were playing football games. That’s where Bob McWhorter made his greatest record. He started his career on Herty Field, but he finished up in 1911 and 1912 and 1913 too. He was Georgia’s first All American football player, a local boy, Bob McWhorter. Robert Ligon McWhorter. Let’s stop this now. I’m rambling around. Where was I? LANE: We were talking about Sanford Field and then it became Sanford Stadium. MAGILL: Yeah. Okay. Now Sanford Field was used for football until Sanford Stadium was built a few hundred yards down east to its present location. It was built and dedicated against Yale in October, 1929. It was a very hot day. I was a little boy, 8 years old. I went to the game. I didn’t know anything about football. In fact, all I could hear was talk by older folk. The big game, big football game coming up. I asked my dad could I be there. I wanted to play in it. I thought I could be chosen and play there. I put on my football uniform that I had gotten for Christmas that year and Charlie Martin was our business manager of athletics, and he’s the one who got the hedge started. There’s another story. He was business manager of athletics, a good friend of my dad’s, and my dad wasn’t a sports writer, but he was at the game because it was a big deal. The governors of all nine Southern states were there for that occasion. It was a big social event for several days in advance. A big crowd, seated 18,000 on the north side, 12,000 on the south side, overflow of 30,000, and there wasn’t any ticket for me, but Charlie Martin told my dad he’d pass me through the gate. I got there after the kickoff had already been made. I asked Mr. Martin, I said, “Where’s my daddy?” He was in the press box then, which was on the north side of the stadium in those days. Later, it became the President’s box, and I think the President’s box is still there, but it’s double deck. Anyway, I ran down there and I saw my dad there sitting in the press box. I said, “Daddy, they’ve already chosen sides.” Everybody in the press box, including the great Grantland Rice, they just laughed like heck. He said, “Well, you go on down there on the field. There’s a walkway around the field. You just watch the game from there.” I didn’t know much about football at all then, but I watched the game, just walking around. The thing that I most remember was at half time, Georgia’s band was just a little ROTC military band, didn’t do much. But Yale had a crack band. They had on white and blue silver helmets and they were really snappy, and they played a tune I had never heard before, but everybody in the stadium stood up when they played the tune. I asked my daddy later what the name of that tune, and he said it was Dixie. LANE: The Yankees came down and played “Dixie” for us. MAGILL: They knew what would get a good-- LANE: And we won! MAGILL: We won the ball game. Catfish Smith of Macon scored all 15 points. He got his nickname, Catfish, because on a dare when he was a boy, he was fishing in the Ocmulgee River and he caught a catfish, and somebody made him a bet, and he bit the head off the catfish. That’s how he got that nickname. But there has been many great games in Sanford Stadium through the years. LANE: I’ll say. And many renovations-- MAGILL: Yeah, and my dad also took me up to the chapel bell. He said, “Do you want to go see them ring the bell?” I went up there. I was a little boy. There was some boy big ringing the bell. He said, “Do you want to ring it with me?” I jumped into his arms and we swung out there and rang the bell. I’ll never forget that in 1929, ringing the chapel bell. LANE: It was a big day. MAGILL: Big day. A historic day. LANE: As we talk about those times, coach, talk to me a little bit--I remember an old baseball field out across from where the Georgia Center is now, off of Carlton Street, but that would have been later, I guess in the ’50s. MAGILL: Our second, or third baseball field. The first baseball field was Herty field. Then we moved to old Sanford Field. But during World War II, the US Navy built one of its four regional Navy preflight schools. The boys who wanted to be pilots came here for physical training. They didn’t do any aerial training, and they built a big building where the Sanford Field stadium used to be. They built it--they had drill hall in there, but they also had a big swimming pool in it that Georgia took over after the war. The reason they had a swimming pool was the cadets would get up to the rafters, have a parachute on, and drop down into the water, and they had to learn how to get out of the parachute in case they jumped into the ocean. That was the reason that pool was built, but Georgia took it over as a swimming pool. They later moved to a magnificent pool in the Ramsey Center. But the baseball field was moved after the war to where the Coliseum is now. Out in that area. That’s where Jim Whatley won several conference championships in the early ’50s. Then it was later moved to its present site named for Judge Frank Foley. It was named for Judge Frank Foley. It could have been named for him for several reasons, because he and George Kidd Woodruff, who lived next to each other in Columbus, had been good athletes at Georgia, both of them, Woodruff played quarterback in football. Judge Foley was a star pitcher, left-handed pitcher and first baseman in baseball. But they really helped Georgia after the war in raising money for the athletic department. They were the president and vice president of the Georgia Student Educational Fund. In fact, when I started the Georgia Bulldog clubs in 1950 they bought me a red and black station wagon to travel the state in. The Foley Field was named for him because he was a great baseball player for Georgia on the team that was Georgia’s most famous athletic team until the 1927 football team. That was the 1908 baseball team on old Herty Field that won the southern championship. Grantland Rice, who later became a nationally syndicated sports columnist, was originally from Nashville, Tennessee and went to Vanderbilt, but at that time, he was sports editor in Atlanta. He called the 1908 Georgia baseball team the greatest baseball team, or any kind of athletic team, in the history of the south, and it was known as our greatest athletic team until 1927, when he had the “Dream and Wonder.” George Kidd Woodruff was coaching that team. The “Dream and Wonder” team, they won their first nine games and then was upset--was en route to the Rose Bowl, but Georgia Tech upset them on Grant Field, and Tech had a good team. They went to the Rose Bowl themselves the next year. But it was some 15 years later before Wally Butts gave us our first Rose Bowl team in 1942. LANE: Claude [McBride] wants us to talk about personalities. I want to ask you one more question about facilities, and then we’re going to do that. MAGILL: Okay. LANE: We talked about a lot of facilities. We’ve not talked about the tennis facility, and we’re sitting in the finest tennis facility in the country to my knowledge. MAGILL: Well-- LANE: Collegiate-wise. Talk about. MAGILL: I think you’re 100% correct. [laughter] We moved out to this present location in 1958. Tennis is a very old sport at Georgia. In the 1890s, they had boys play in the individual tournaments. They didn’t have any team matches, but the first champion of the South in tennis Southern collegiate champion, the first championship was held in Montgomery, Alabama in 1898, and a Georgia boy won it. They would practice on private courts at the time. In those days, almost every home had a private tennis court in the front yard or back yard. It was like having swimming pools now, you know. His name was L.A. Cothran of College Park, Georgia, and he defeated a football star from the University of the South in Suwannee, named Sieboltz, but he was a tennis star too. We have his--L.A. Cothran’s picture in our Hall of Fame here, and his racquet, or the same model racquet he used back in 1898. But the first tennis courts on the campus were four dirt courts aside Broad Street just below the Arch. They were there from 1900. I have pictures of those courts. As a boy, I saw them in the late ’20s, never played on them, but they were there through the late ’20s, and then they moved to a location in front of LeConte Hall. Six red clay courts were there until after World War II and then they had four courts for the varsity right in back of the stadium. In 1958, we moved to this location and we began having winning teams in the ‘60s and ‘70s, winning the conference championship, but we had big crowds, very big crowds. The chairman of the NCAA tennis committee, Dale Lewis of the University of Miami, was impressed by the big crowds we had, bigger crowds than anybody else had. So he let us have--the committee voted Georgia host of the NCAAs in 1972. That was the first year. It was a big success because it was the first time in history there had ever been scoreboards on all 12 courts. We had 12 courts. The six courts here and--no, we had 14 courts when I had the tournament, the six courts right here, four courts where our indoor courts are now, but they were outdoor courts then, and then four right above. We had 14 courts. A tremendous draw. And we had scoreboards on all courts. For the first time fans could keep up with the score. The fellow who invented the scoreboard that we still have on the courts, and there has never been a better one, was Stan Drobeck, coach at Michigan State. So I asked him--I bought six of his things and that was 1972. We still use some of the wooden score sheets, that have to be replaced. Then he brought down eight for the other matches. We also had people--monitors keep the score and keep the scoreboard, and I got a lot of pretty girls to sit in the chair, and the fans liked that. Then of course for the big matches, they’d have real umpires, but it was a big success and the coaches voted 32-0 for Georgia to be the semi-permanent site. It had already been prescheduled over the next four years, at Princeton in ‘73 and Southern California in ‘74, Corpus Christi, Texas in ‘75 and ‘76, but we got it again in 77 and have held it here most of the time since then, and we gradually developed the grounds, made a beautiful place, had gardens, and the tournament was very popular here. We’re going to host it again next year. LANE: I was here in 1972, sitting in that picture somewhere, and I spent most of my time--snuck away from the admissions office to come sit and watch everybody play, and one thing about the NCAAs is that it has brought the most outstanding tennis players in the world. MAGILL: Well, so many of them right to this day have gone on to international honors, won Wimbledon, and all of the grand slam tournaments, and been stars on the US Davis Cup team. The number one doubles team in the world right now, the Bryan twins, Mike and Bob of Stanford, who won the NCAA doubles here, led Stanford to the championship in 1998, and they are ranked number one in the world in doubles and stars of our US Davis Cup team, and James Blake of Harvard. He’s on the Davis Cup team right now. He was runner up in the NCAA tournament here. Of course, the ace of the US Davis Cup team is Andy Roddick, but his older brother and his coach now is John Roddick, who played for Georgia, and I remember Andy Roddick when he was a little boy on the banks, running around and yelling for his brother and hollering “woof, woof, woof.” Yeah, we’re very proud of the great tennis tradition we have at Georgia, and the Hall of Fame is located here because it was considered the appropriate spot, since we were hosting the national championship. This is the men’s Hall of Fame. The women’s Hall of Fame is at William and Mary, built a few years after this one. But the great singer, Kenny Rogers, gave us the money for this building, and he came to Athens, you know, because he married the beautiful Marianne Gordon. He met her on the Hee Haw show. She was--she never said anything. She just always looked pretty in the swing. She was the colonel’s daughter sitting out on the veranda swinging. She used to help me in my office. Her mother was the bookkeeper in the athletic department. She’d come down to her mother’s office and visit her when she was a teenager. Her mother would call me up and say, “I want you to put Marianne to work because I can’t balance the books, she’s getting in my way.” So I put her to work in my office. This was before we had stamp meters, and she’d lick 3-cent stamps, fold up stories to put in news releases. When she and Kenny were married, she brought him out here to be--wanted to know if he could play tennis. I said, “sure.” Then he wanted to make a donation to the tennis program, and I said we’re trying to raise money for the Tennis Hall of Fame, and he gave the whole amount, $200,000. I put a bronze plaque right out in front of the building, said, “Thank you, Kenny Rogers, for your contributions to college tennis.” He said, “Take it down.” I said, “You want it down, I will. You’re the boss.” He said, “Put another one up that says thank you Marianne and Kenny Rogers.” LANE: Let’s talk about--if I came to see the Tennis Hall of Fame, what would I find? MAGILL: We’re proud of two things. We have the finest collection of racquets of any museum in all the world. I’ve been to the museum at Wimbledon and International Tennis Hall of Fame at Newport. Of course, they have a larger building, but what we have, and no museum has this--because this is just dedicated to traditions of college tennis. We have the same model racquet used by every national intercollegiate champion, singles and doubles, since 1883. About 75 or 80 of the racquets actually belonged to the players when they won. Now, when I step out on the court to congratulate a boy who has won, he said, “Do you want my racquet for the Hall of Fame?” I used to ask them, but now it’s such a big honor for them to have their racquet in the hall of fame. The racquet used by the first champion, Joseph S. Clarke, a blueblood from Philadelphia, who played for Harvard was a [unclear] flat top, and we have that racquet under his picture. We also have the racquets used by the first American Davis Cup team, three Harvard boys, Holcomb Ward, Malcolm Whitman, and Dwight Davis himself. We also have a great collection of pictures. We have over 1,700 photographs and murals. All are connected to college tennis. All of the champions singles and doubles. All of the collegians who have starred in the so called grand slam tournaments, Wimbledon, the US Open, the French Open, the Australian Open, Davis Cup matches. We’ve never had a Davis Cup team that didn’t have at least one college boy on the team as a player or the team captain. So the college tennis has much to be proud of, and I love to show visitors and any person interested in tennis is amazed by the collection. It’s really kind of a well-kept secret. Not many people know it’s on the campus. It’s the only program on the University of Georgia’s campus that is honored with a national Hall of Fame. LANE: We’re going to help people know that it’s here. We’ll do that. Coach, let’s talk a little bit about some of the interesting personalities that you’ve known over the years and one that you mentioned earlier was Coach Jim Whatley, Big Jim Whatley. MAGILL: Big Jim. He weighed 12 pounds at birth in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. He was pretty big at birth, 12 pounds. He was the University of Alabama’s greatest all-around athlete. Adolph Rupp called him the best center he ever played against, his take had ever played at Kentucky. He was a home run hitting first baseman. In professional ball one time in the minor leagues, he hit five consecutive home runs, four times in one game and then his next time at bat the next day in another, and that was five consecutive home runs. In football, he was an All-America tackle on Alabama’s championship Rose Bowl team, and his roommate in college wasn’t real known then, but it was a fellow by the name of Bear Bryant, was his name. He later became pretty well known as a coach. In fact, he could walk on water, they said. But--Big Jim. I really loved Big Jim. When he first came to Georgia in 1950, he was the basketball coach. He was going to also be a line coach in football. I remember in one of his first games--it was against Kentucky in January, 1950 in old Woodruff Hall. Adolph Rupp was the coach then, a famous coach. I went with Jim the day before the game to open up Woodruff Hall for Rupp and his team to practice. Afterward, Rupp or somebody said, “How about coming up to my hotel that night and have a beer with me?” It was the old Georgian Hotel. He said to me that I could come along too. Well-- he drunk both me and Jim under the table. We never got in a word, but he just told one funny story after another. He was a great storyteller. Adolph Rupp. But Jim was a fabulous fellow. One of his favorite tricks. He could kick the top of a door, the very top of a door, kick up high. If the lights in a room were hanging low, he could kick the light bulbs out, that was one of his favorite tricks, to go into a room and unexpectedly kick the lights out, and people thought the room was blowing up. [laughter] He--one of the funniest jokes was one on him. He was coaching Georgia’s baseball team. A boy hit two or three home runs in the game. The newspaper article the next day quoted him and said what did he ow his success to, and he said, “I owe all my success to the Lord,” you know, praising the Lord, and the next day at practice, Coach Whatley said to the boy, he said, “That’s the biggest bunch of baloney I ever heard you say, you owed all your success to the Lord. You never have been in a church.” He said, “I bet you can’t even recite the Lord’s Prayer.” And the boy said, “I betcha I can,” and they put up money. They put up about five dollars apiece. Then Jim said, “Now let me hear you recite the Lord’s Prayer,” and the boy began, “Now I lay me down to sleep. I pray the Lord my soul to keep.” And Jim gave him the money. He said, “I swear I didn’t think he knew it.” [laughter] Oh. LANE: Well now, there were some other interesting coaches during that time. MAGILL: Oh, we had many, many colorful coaches. Spec Towns, Harry Mehre, Wally Butts. Herman Stegeman was a great joke. I don’t know why they used to pull so many jokes on each other. I think it’s maybe they didn’t have television. It wasn’t as fast a pace as it is now. Television, the instant communication, computers, and the Internet and everything. Now it’s just a faster pace. It was fun pulling jokes on each other. Coach Stegeman liked to pull jokes. Have I told the joke about him and Clegg throwing the football? LANE: Yes. Did that in part one. MAGILL: I did. Did I tell how Spec Towns got his scholarship? Maybe I did. LANE: I don’t think you did that for--you did that for me, but I don’t think you did that for the camera. Do that. Talk about how Spec got his scholarship. MAGILL: Well Spec Towns was born in Fitzgerald, Georgia, but he moved to Augusta and went to Richmond Academy and he played football. That was his only sport. He was just a skinny end. Incidentally, Spec’s full name was Forrest Grady Towns. He was named for Nathan Bedford Forrest, the great confederate cavalry leader, and Henry W. Grady, who was an Athenian, you know, and the famous editor of the Atlanta Constitution and famous orator. But Spec didn’t get a football scholarship to Georgia, he was just a skinny end. After he graduated, he spent a year or two driving a taxicab in Augusta. He was arrested one time for smuggling illegal liquor across the Savannah River into Augusta. The police ran him into a blind alley. He stopped his cab and he ran down a blind alley and they thought they had him because there was a six-foot wall there, but he just jumped right over that wall. The judge, Judge Miller in Augusta, whose son, Freddy Miller, played on Georgia’s football team, heard that story when he was trying Spec, and he told Freddy, who told Coach Stegeman about this boy in Augusta, who could jump six feet. He gave him a track scholarship. He had graduated in high school. He couldn’t get in school now. He wouldn’t be smart enough--I couldn’t either...but anyway, he--Coach Stegeman gave him a scholarship thinking he could be a world champion high jumper. He was a pretty good high jumper, but he never could learn the western or eastern roll properly. But Coach Stegeman’s assistant coach was Weems Baskin, who had been national collegiate high hurdles champion at Auburn, and he tried to make a hurdler out of Spec. I saw him try to clear his first hurdle. It was in the fall of 1933. I had finished my duties as batboy and was hanging around the track field right there next to the baseball field. I was just chewing on the bermuda grass weeds waiting on him to finish practice so I could practice the pole vault because Coach Stegeman said I could use that pit to practice to be a pole-vaulter after practice. All of a sudden, I saw a guy hit a hurdle and hit the center of the track and come up cussing. I’d never heard such cussing in my life. I had grown up at the Athens Young Men’s Christian Association here, and had never heard such cussing. I later learned even better cussing from the drill instructors at Paris Island, but anyway--this guy I found out later his name was Spec Towns. He had red hair and I had red hair too. He didn’t know my name, but yes, he called me Red and I called him Spec. He had freckles all over his face and that was his nickname, Spec Towns. Two years later, though, he was the Olympic high hurdles champion and he set the world record that stood for 14 years in an exhibition after the Olympics in Oslo. They just didn’t believe he had run it that fast and they were hesitant to approve it, the International Track Rules Committee. They looked at a movie of a fellow from Great Britain, who they had recommended, O’Connor of Great Britain had been recommended for his time. They looked at a movie of Spec in a race at Oslo where he had done it in exhibition and Towns was crossing the finish line when O’Connor was just finishing the last hurdle, so they unanimously approved his record of 13.7, which stood for 14 years. Spec was quite a character. LANE: Talk about naming the track for-- MAGILL: Well, Spec and I used to--even though we’d known each other since 1933. He called me Red and I called him Spec. I didn’t know his name. They just have all called him Spec. But we used to have an argument on how to spell his nickname. I spelled it S-P-E-C-K and so did Old Timer the Atlanta Journal Sports writer. Spec called it Spec and I told him-- He said I should spell it S-P-E-C. I said, “No, it’s a nickname give somebody who wears spectacles.” He said, “You got the name because you got more freckles on your face than any trout in north Georgia.” So we had a big argument on it. I just didn’t give in, but when I got Coach Dooley to name the track out there for Spec Towns. He said, “We want to put a sign up there and call it the Spec Towns Track.” He said, “I know you all’s arguing about how to spell his name. How do you think we should spell it?” I said--Spec was dead then. I said, “Oh hell, spell it S-P-E-C. I don’t want Spec jumping out of his grave.” So it’s Spec Towns Track. He was a great competitor. When he won the Olympics, when Spec Towns won the Olympics, Coach and Mrs. Stegeman were there watching the meet, and when Spec circled the track, you know that’s the habit when you win, you circle the track. When he saw Coach Stegeman up in the stands, he knew it was him and he stopped and he did like that – gave the victory salute. Hitler gave the winners of the Olympic championship, baby oak trees from the German Black Forest. Mrs. Stegeman nursed that little sapling on the way back by ship to keep it wet, you know. When they got back here, the groundskeeper at the University happened to be an old German named Winemiller, and he was from the German black forest. He just loved to plant that tree. They planted it originally in back of the north side of the stadium. When they double decked the stadium, they had to move it. Well, they did a bad job digging it up. Mr. Winemiller wasn’t around then. They planted it over where the Coliseum is and they’ve got a bronze or granite monument there to Spec, and it died. But before it died, Dean Tate, Dean William Tate, a great colorful character at Georgia – he had been a trackman under Coach Stegeman, and he says we ought to do like they did, the Tree that Owns Itself. When it died, get one of its acorns, which--that was my father’s idea to continue the Tree that Owns Itself legacy. So Dean Tate got one of the acorns from the original oak from the Black Forest and that still stands there in front of the granite monument to Spec. LANE: Talk to us a little bit more about Dean Tate. You know, everybody has a Dean Tate story. MAGILL: Yeah. Let me look at my notes on Dean Tate. He’s in my book here. LANE: I know he--you mentioned he ran track and I have seen those pictures of that skinny-legged fellow in his tracksuit. MAGILL: Yeah, here’s--Dean William. He was known as Wild Bill. I don’t know how he got the nickname Wild Bill, but there he is in my book. Let me just look at some of these notes. He married Chancellor Barrow’s daughter, Sue Fan. That’s probably the greatest thing he ever did. [laughter] But, yeah. I want to tell about him. Dean Bill Tate certainly is one of the most beloved characters in the history of the University of Georgia. Long time Dean of Men, but before that, he was a track star. In the early ’30s, he ran for Coach Stegeman, and incidentally, he succeeded Coach Stegeman as Dean of Men at Georgia. Coach Stegeman after he had retired as athletic director was Dean of Men a few years. Bill Tate, who had run for him on the track team, succeeded him also as the Dean of Men. Dean Tate was a champion long distance runner in college, well known by the high school boys, and there was a young boy, at Lanier High, Macon, named Young, Bob Young. He was the state high school champion. He would write Bill Tate for some advice on how to be a distance runner, and Dean Tate sent him postcards and gave him tips on how to run. Then they were running in the southern AAU mile race shortly thereafter in Birmingham. Bob Young upset the great Bill Tate at the finish line in the mile race. Coach Stegeman went up to Bill Tate after the race and said, “How could you lose to a high school boy?” Dean Tate said to him, “Well, he had a better coach.” [laughter] But, Dean Tate is certainly going to be well remembered for the beautiful Tate Center named for him. One of the greatest things Dean Tate did--whenever boys got in trouble at Georgia, students, he would be there whether they were right or wrong. He would be there to defend them. I remember having to go to a little town near Athens, I think it was Lexington. One of my tennis players had gotten in some trouble, and I had to go there early one morning. When I got there, there was Dean Tate already there to help that boy. They couldn’t have honored a greater Georgian than Bill Tate. He told me so many wonderful stories. He used to regale me with so many stories when I would carry him to Georgia Bulldog Clubs because I was wanting him to speak there because all the alumni there at the Bulldog Clubs knew Bill Tate. His most famous character on the campus was the long time dean of the law school. Sylvanus Morris. The Morris dormitory is named for him on Lumpkin Street. His younger brother, John Morris, was a famous catcher on Georgia’s first baseball team and a long time German teacher at Georgia. They say he had the best arm that had ever been, throwing people out at second base. I know he had a good arm, because when I took German under him, if you weren’t paying attention, he’d throw his blackboard eraser at you and hit you right in the head. He hit me in the head one time. I mean, I was paying attention because I knew that story and I was too afraid not to, but he was aiming at a boy in front of me who ducked, and the eraser hit me. But Sylvanus Morris was quite a character and Dean Tate used to regale me with stories on him. LANE: Talk a little bit, Coach, about Dr. Eugene Odum, one of our most famous faculty members. MAGILL: When I take people through the Hall of Fame, I say John McEnroe was a great left-handed tennis player. We have his picture on the wall and his racquet. Jimmy Connors was a great left-handed player. Of course, we have Connors’ picture and the racquet he used, the Wilson T-2000, but I said the greatest left-handed tennis player who ever lived, in my opinion, was the father of ecology, Eugene Odum. He used to play tennis for the University of North Carolina. He coached the Georgia team one year in 1944 during the war, and he won our Athens City Senior, age 55. He was the greatest left-handed tennis play of all time, the father of ecology. Dean Rusk. I want to talk about Dean Rusk. Did I talk about Coach Whatley? What about Dean Rusk? LANE: Talk about Dean Rusk. That’s good. SPEAKER [OFF-CAMERA]: Do I need to get you another drink? MAGILL: Yeah, please. It’s right into the room. It’s dark in there. Watch out for booga bears--[laughter] It’s in there. In the little refrigerator. Don’t have but one. You all want to share it with me? LANE: No sir. MAGILL: Well, I wanted to talk about the boys who had given their lives for Georgia in the War (II). LANE: Okay, talk about that, and then we’ll finish it up. SPEAKER [OFF-CAMERA]: Do Dean Rusk. MAGILL: Dean Rusk. LANE: We’ll talk about Dean Rusk and then about the veterans, soldiers who lost their lives in the Second World War. MAGILL: Georgia students, classmates of mine, eight of them, four in Europe, four in the Pacific. LANE: And then, we’ll call it a day and if we think of some other things, we’ll do this again. MAGILL: Yeah, call it a day. LANE: You okay? MAGILL: Yeah. Let’s see now. Dean Rusk. One of the greatest teachers that had ever been on the Georgia campus was Dean Rusk, Secretary of State and after he retired, he came down and was a teacher in the law school at Georgia. There’s a funny story they tell about Dean Rusk. When he first was moving into his office, the janitor greeted him, “Good morning, Dean.” He thought he was the dean of the school. But it was during the NCAA championships in 1978, and I liked to get distinguished people to give the awards to the champion, and couldn’t get anybody more distinguished than Dean Rusk. So I got him to give the award and he gave the award to John McEnroe when he won the tournament. I have a nice picture of them at that ceremony. But I sat with Dean Rusk during the match and learned a lot about him. He was born in Cherokee County. I think his daddy was a minister, but he grew up in Atlanta. He played basketball and tennis at old Atlanta Boys High. Then he went to Davidson and was a star in basketball and tennis. Then he was a Rhodes Scholar to England, and he told me in the early days of the Wimbledon championship, that he and the other boys on the Wimbledon team would be linesman, because they would have so many matches in the other round. A lot of people don’t realize it, but in World War II, he was chief of staff, second in command to General Vinegar Joe Stillwell in the China Burma Theater of war. He was the second in command, Colonel Dean Rusk. He was a war hero too. He told me some funny stories on Chiang Kai- shek, because he had met him. General Stillwell had his troops lined up with the Chinese troops, the Japanese you know had overrun, had almost wiped out China, but Chiang Kai-shek was the general for China and he was with him and he said Chiang Kai-shek had the greatest group of bodyguards, physical specimens he had ever seen. All of them stood over six feet tall and he said to get to be one of his bodyguards, the special group that are bodyguards, one of the tests they had to do was swim across a crocodile infested river rocks. If they got across that, that would prove they were pretty good, those that lived through that. That was one of their things. Dean Rusk was a great fellow. Certainly, one of the greatest Georgians and teachers in the history of the University of Georgia, too. LANE: Talk then about--you’ve mentioned the war. Talk about those folks you knew. MAGILL: I need the clipping. I can’t memorize all the dates. One of the most interesting and impressive monuments on the Georgia campus is a memorial display of red and black granite in front of the Rankin Smith Building honoring all of the University of Georgia athletes who died in various wars. I had the idea to do it because eight of my classmates died and I suggested to Coach Dooley that he do it, and it was done. Eight of my classmates who died were, four of them in the Atlantic, across the Atlantic in Europe, center Homer Passmore and another center, Tommy Witt, and a guard, (Henry) Walter Chief Ruark, and another guard, Will Burt (Jr.). Then in the Pacific, James Skipworth (Jr.) was an end. Three guards, Smiley (Howard W.) Johnson, Winston (D.) Hodgson, Winfred (S.) Goodman died. But the first one to die was army Lieutenant Tommy Wiit. He died in October 1942, during the North African invasion. I’ll have to look down at this--while flying his B25 he was shot down and died from wounds when he attempted to land his plane. On November 22, 1944, Master Sergeant Walter Chief Ruark, he was down in Bostwick in Morgan County. He was on our ’42 Rose Bowl championship team. He was leading a five-man patrol, which was advancing on a German sniper position in a stone house on the river Ruhr, when a rifle shot pierced his chest. He was awarded the Silver Star posthumously, the second highest honor that can be bestowed on an American fighting man. In October 1944, army pilot, Lieutenant Homer Passmore of Valdosta, who played center and blocking back in 1940, was shot down over France while piloting his B17 several weeks after the Normandy invasion. At the same time, army bombardier, Lieutenant Will Burt of Macon, a star guard on our first bowl team, the Orange Bowl champions of ’49, was shot down by German aircraft over Italy. On January 17, 1945, Captain James Skipworth, Jr., a native of Columbus and Georgia football captain in 1940, was killed while leading his troop in MacArthur’s triumphant return to the Philippines. He was awarded the Silver Star for gallantry. One week later, January 24, Army captain Winfred Goodman of Atlanta, starting guard at Georgia in ‘40 and ‘41, was reported missing in action after leading his fourth emergency air sea rescue squadron during the recapture of the Philippines. Four weeks later, February 19, 1945, marine First Lieutenant Howard Smiley Johnson of Clarksville, Tennessee, an alternate captain at Georgia in 1939, was killed by exploding shell fragments in the landing on Iwo Jima. He was awarded a second Silver Star for hand-to-hand combat fighting against the Japanese on Sai Pan. I was at Quantico getting my commission at the same time Smiley received his commission. In June 1945 on Okinawa in the last battle of World War II, another fellow Athenian and fellow graduate of Quantico together, Marine second lieutenant Winston Hodgson of Athens, a running mate of Smiley Johnson of Georgia, was killed while leading his platoon up a mountainside against entrenched Japanese in a cave. I remember some men in Winston’s platoon who later told me that he was down at the bottom of the mountain. He said, “I’m going to zigzag up to their cave,” where the Japanese were in an entrenched position. “I’m going to zigzag up there and I want you to follow me until I give the all clear signal.” Well, he got up there safely, zigzagging in the back of rocks, threw his hand grenade into the cave, but the Japanese unknowingly, had their largest supply of ammunition on the whole island. It blew the top of the mountain off and Winston was killed in the concussion. A few days later, his outfit captured the capital city of Naha and Okinawa was secured and that’s where the Marines were and where I was at the end of the war later, staging for the landing on Japan. These boys all are honored with that beautiful red and black granite memorial in front of the Rankin Smith Center. You ought to go see it. You’ve seen it? LANE: Oh, Coach Magill? Let’s talk a little bit about you. You’ve won countless honors for all of your accomplishments, the Hartman award, the National Football Foundation’s Outstanding Contribution to Amateur Football, that’s just to name a couple. Your name’s on this wonderful tennis complex, and on the press box at UGA’s Sanford Stadium. I also understand that your seat says, “Legend, Dan Magill” at the press box. Is that right? Is that the way you’re designated up there? MAGILL: Seat number 8 on the 50, I know that. LANE: Well, it would be appropriate if it said “Legend.” MAGILL: Yeah, I’ve loved my life in Athens and Georgia. You know, I’ve just had so many opportunities here, so many opportunities growing up at the Athens Y, a great institution here. Hanging around the athletic fields, eavesdropping on all the coaches. I wasn’t an All American athlete, but I was an All American flunkie in the athletic department. LANE: Well, we were lucky to have you. MAGILL: My mother was in the first women’s class at Georgia. LANE: You had told us about that. MAGILL: And quick, she was valedictorian at Old Athens High. She was real smart, and she quit school after her first year because I was born. My father didn’t get to graduate at Georgia. On April 17, 1917, he was in an English class. There were only about 20 or 25 boys in it. This was 1917, and Professor Park for whom the building later was named, or later another building was named, Park Hall in honor of him. Professor Park said to those boys, “We just declared war with Germany.” He said, “Every red blooded American boy should join the United States Army tomorrow and fight for democracy.” The next day there wasn’t a need for him to come to work. They had all joined. And after the war, my father didn’t have a chance to resume. He just left about a month of graduating, but he did come back to Athens and work for a long time. LANE: Well, we’re glad he came back. We’re glad you’re here. I think you have led a busy, busy life, a full rich life, and you’re still continuing to do that. You are writing books and articles. You’re looking after the-- MAGILL: I especially wanted to write a book about my experiences in the Marine Corps, because they really do have a wonderful esprit de corps, and I just think more people ought to know what a great esprit de corps they had. When I joined the marines the day after Pearl Harbor. I had been playing touch football in front of the Chi Phi house on a Sunday December 7. A boy ran out of the building and said, “The Japs have bombed Pearl Harbor! We’re at war!” Everybody wanted to know where Pearl Harbor was. It was a new naval base. I joined the Marine Corps the next day. They knew I was a senior in college and they let me graduate because they wanted college graduates to go in a special class to be platoon leaders. They had to go to boot camp first. Well, my daddy--you know how fathers are, said, “Why did you want to join the Marine Corps?” I said, “They have the greatest esprit de corps, they’re the first to fight.” He said, “They’re the first to die.” But I have many examples in there that show their great esprit de corps, and their motto is semper fidelis, which means always faithful, faithful to your country, faithful to the Marine Corps, and faithful to your fellow Marine. I have so many examples in that book that I managed to write. LANE: This is the book you’re working on now? MAGILL: I’ve finished writing it. I’m hoping it will be published this fall. LANE: Sounds great. MAGILL: I was mainly just doing it for my family to give them a little history, but some people have read some of the stories and they thought I ought to put it in a book, so I’ll give it a try. LANE: That sounds great. Claude, have you got anything else we need to ask Coach Magill about. MAGILL: Well, I don’t want to say this, but my greatest honor was Coach Butts used to say, was being national Negro table tennis champion. I played in the Chicago Open right after I got out of the Marine Corps. The Great Lakes Naval Station. Visiting my wife and little boy up---staying with her parents, living in Chicago then, and I went up to the Northside Table Tennis Club. I’d been State of Georgia Table Tennis Champion ten times, and played the longest point on record, an hour and 15 minutes and lost it, but I won the game. Anyway, in the quarterfinals of the Chicago Open, I played a Negro. This is not for-- don’t put this in there, but this is my greatest achievement. Coach Butts used to tell it introducing me sometimes. After I introduced Coach Butts, it always followed, did you know Dan was National Negro Table Tennis champion. But anyway, to tell the story, I played a guy named Overton. He was the ping-pong pro at this big Negro hotel in Chicago and he had a little shirt, he had crossed ping-pong paddles on the tee shirt. Well, I beat him in the quarterfinals of that tournament, and won the doubles with a Swede named [unclear], but anyway, got a little gold medal that says Chicago open doubles, Magill 1945. Anyway, Coach Butts, after I’d introduce him you know would say, “You know Dan, he was National Negro Table Tennis Champion, and also, he was good at tidily winks.” LANE: I think that’s a great note to close on, do you all think? What an honor and a privilege to be able to do this. MAGILL: Well, I love to talk about those good old days. [END OF INTERVIEW] Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL407GBOH-003.xml RBRL407GBOH-003.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL407GBOH/findingaid
Location
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Athens, Georgia
Duration
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72 minutes
Repository
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with Dan Magill, Part 2, May 9, 2006
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RBRL407GBOH-003
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Dan Magill
Fran Lane
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video
oral histories
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Coverage
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Athens, Georgia
Subject
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Sports
World War, 1939-1945
Description
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Magill remembers Athens and the University of Georgia while he was a student there in the late 1930s and early 1940s, particularly the University’s cavalry and the locations of its athletic fields. He discusses how UGA became the semi-permanent host of the NCAA Division I Tennis Championships and the site of the Collegiate Tennis Hall of Fame. He talks about some of the memorable men he met while working at UGA, including Jim Whatley, “Spec” Towns, William Tate, and Dean Rusk. He also remembers his classmates who died while serving in World War II and his efforts to erect a memorial on campus in their honor.
Date
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2006-05-09
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moving image
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Goin' Back: Remembering UGA Oral History Collection
Subject
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Georgia--History, Local
University and colleges--History
University and colleges--University of Georgia
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Goin' Back: Remembering UGA is an oral history project designed to preserve the memories of former students, faculty and staff, and higher administration officials of the University of Georgia. <br /><br />To learn more history of the University of Georgia, please visit the University Archives website, part of the Hargrett Rare Book and Manuscript Library.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=24&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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2006-2016
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RBRL407GBOH
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Athens, Georgia
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5.3 Interview with Charley Trippi, December 5, 2006 RBRL407GBOH-010 RBRL407GBOH Goin' Back: Remembering UGA Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Charley Trippi Fran Lane oral history 1:|23(11)|34(10)|44(2)|54(5)|62(14)|72(8)|81(8)|91(2)|100(7)|109(10)|117(10)|126(6)|133(6)|143(7)|154(9)|162(2)|171(11)|183(6)|201(7)|213(13)|226(10)|241(5)|254(7)|268(8)|281(1)|295(17)|315(12)|336(4)|349(6)|362(1)|379(5)|395(5)|434(2)|454(4)|468(9)|479(6)|489(5)|504(1)|534(9)|540(10)|561(12)|579(1)|609(16)|626(3)|635(10) 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_61yd0uok& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_byxvj0r5" ; width=" ; 608" ; height=" ; 402" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 37 Early life in Pennsylvania / Pre-collegiate athletic career Please tell us a little bit about your early days. Trippi recalls growing up in a coal-mining community during the Great Depression. He remembers playing football and semi-professional baseball in high school, being scouted by several universities, accepting an offer from UGA, and receiving a scholarship to La Salle Military Academy to finish high school and play football. He recalls meeting UGA alumnus Harold " ; War Eagle" ; Ketron and getting a job with Coca Cola through Ketron. coal mining ; Coca Cola ; college football ; Great Depression ; Harold " ; War Eagle" ; Ketron ; La Salle Military Academy ; Pittston, Pennsylvania ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; Works Progress Administration 17 480 Football at UGA / Professional baseball and football Of course, when I came to Georgia, I didn’t know what really was going to transpire... Trippi discusses playing football at UGA, particularly the 1943 Rose Bowl and four college all-star games. He remembers playing AA baseball with the New York Yankees in 1947, as well as playing nine years and coaching five years for the Chicago Cardinals football team. American Football League (AFL) ; Chicago Cardinals ; Frank Sinkwich ; National Football League (NFL) ; New York Yankees ; Rose Bowl ; UGA ; University of Georgia 17 907 Coaching at UGA / Freshman year at UGA And, uh, after I finished coaching with the Cardinals, I coached with Coach Butts. Trippi discusses coaching at UGA, his relationship with Coach Wally Butts, and several other coaches. He recalls his first impressions of UGA and shares an anecdote about the UGA football program buying him a ticket home for Christmas in 1942. college football ; James Wallace " ; Wally" ; Butts ; Jennings B. Whitworth ; Orange Bowl ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; Wyatt Posey 17 1335 Life at UGA What was your major in college? Trippi discusses his decision to change majors from business to physical education, the goals he had set for himself, and joining the Lambda Chi fraternity. He remembers football practices under Coach Wally Butts and other coaches' impressions of his athleticism. college football ; Lambda Chi fraternity ; Paul William " ; Bear" ; Bryant ; Robert Lee " ; Bobby" ; Dodd ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; World War II 17 1684 Rose Bowl / Air Force / Final year at UGA What -- you mentioned earlier that probably the Rose Bowl was the thing that is most memorable to you. Trippi recalls meeting celebrities as part of the festivities of the 1943 Rose Bowl. He discusses playing baseball and football for the Air Force during World War II. He remembers serving as the captain of the UGA football team in 1946 and winning the 1947 Sugar Bowl. He reflects on the athleticism of UGA quarterbacks Johnny Rauch and Matthew Stafford. college football ; Johnny Rauch ; Matthew Stafford ; Paramount Pictures ; Rose Bowl ; Sugar Bowl ; UGA ; United States Air Force ; University of Georgia ; World War II 17 2052 Chicago Cardinals' Dream Backfield You played in, uh -- you indicated earlier that you decided not to go into professional baseball... Trippi discusses his move from professional baseball to playing nine years with the Chicago Cardinals football team. He remembers the members of the " ; Dream Backfield" ; of the 1947 Cardinals team, winning the 1947 NFL Championship, and losing the 1948 NFL Championship. Chicago Cardinals ; Dream Backfield ; Million Dollar Backfield ; National Football League (NFL) ; Philadelphia Eagles 17 2306 Final thoughts You played nine seasons for Chicago? Trippi summarizes his career working for the Chicago Cardinals and UGA. He discusses his family and mentions the awards he earned as a football player and coach. He recalls the 1941 Rose Bowl being moved from California because of fears of Japanese attack, and tells the story of how he got his football jersey numbers. Chicago Cardinals ; college football ; James Wallace " ; Wally" ; Butts ; Pearl Harbor ; Rose Bowl ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; World War II 17 FRAN LANE: This is a Going Back Remembering UGA interview with Mr. Charley Trippi, conducted by Fran Lane on December 5, 2006. Today we are at the University of Georgia Visitor Center in the Four Towers Building on College Station Road in Athens, Georgia. Thank you for being with us today Mr. Trippi. CHARLEY TRIPPI: Charley. LANE: Thank you for being with us today. Charley. TRIPPI: That is better--. LANE: You know I understand that there is a Charley Trippi stadium in Pittston, Pennsylvania. What an honor. TRIPPI: That is correct. LANE: And how lucky for the people of Pittston that you are a native son. Please tell us a little bit about your early days. TRIPPI: Well, I grew up in a mining community where everybody worked awfully hard at mining coal and it was a dangerous job really. To start with a lot of people got killed there because of that. Of course I grew up during the depression, which in my case gave me inspiration to do something out of my life, because I did not want to ever work in the mines. Regardless of what happened I would never stay there. So I had to pursue something that would enlighten my career. So at an early stage I was playing baseball and football with people much older than me. I was playing semi-professional baseball when I was in high school--so I learned to adapt myself to sports and it paid off, because if I stayed there I don’t know what would have happened, so I am very fortunate in a way. LANE: Now tell me how you got from Pittston, Pennsylvania to Athens Georgia? TRIPPI: That is an easy question to answer because when I was in high school, I played on an undefeated football team. I only weighed about 160 pounds. I wanted to pursue football at the college level. I was turned down by four different colleges before I got an invitation to visit Georgia. It so happened after four failures, this gentleman, his name was “War Eagle” Ketron, who was a former alumnus of Georgia and a football player from Georgia, came to my house one Sunday morning and asked me-- he said, son would you like to go and visit the University of Georgia. I had never heard of Georgia you know. I always knew Georgia Tech, but I never realized there was a Georgia affiliation. I said sure I would go anyplace then. So he said, “Well I am going to send you with three other athletes and I have a coach that is going to escort you.” I said fine. He said, “I am going to send you during your Christmas vacation.” So the day came that we were leaving. Our first stop was Penn State. I spent 24 hours at Penn State, and I have yet to meet a coach. I had no contact at all, because I was with three other fellows who were over six feet tall and weighed over 200 pounds, and here I am at 160 pounds trying to get a scholarship--so I was completely ignored, which I took for granted that maybe I was not a viable candidate for a scholarship. So our next stop, we went to Georgia. When we got to Georgia, we received a very good reception, and they took us all to dinner at Poss’s Barbecue. I remember that. They were very cordial and of course very excited about having all these fine athletes there with me. So they asked if we would work out. I said sure I would be glad to work out. So they gave us equipment to dress out and work on the football field-- and of course I punted for them, I threw passes and they timed me in the 40 yard dash to see what kind of speed I had. And prior to leaving Georgia, I received a commitment from Georgia. They said we would like for you to come and be one of the football players. I said I would be glad to when the time came after I finished high school. So after we left Georgia, we went to West Virginia. We stopped there, and of course the same thing happened there that other schools did. They couldn’t do enough to entice the three other fellows I was with, and I was there in the background more or less. Prior to us leaving, one of the coaches came to me very apologetic and says, “I don’t think we can give you a scholarship.” I say, “Well fine. I feel like I already have a commitment to Georgia.” So I left and when I got home, my backfield coach by the name of Paul Shebby said, “Charlie, I have a scholarship for you at LaSalle Military Academy if you would like to take it”--which was in Long Island New York. I says, “Yes, I would like to go, because I think a little bit more experience and if maybe I gained a little more weight, I would be a more viable athlete than I am right now”. So I went to prep school, and while there I gained ten pounds, because they had a dinner menu that they gave you all you can eat buffet style food and I ate real good-- and I gained ten pound in the period of time I was there. I played on a very good football team, and I made the All Metropolitan Team in New York. Any time you do anything good in New York in athletics you get a lot of good exposure, and that I got. As soon as that happened, Notre Dame came to my house. They didn’t send one coach, they sent two coaches, and tried to induce me to go to Notre Dame. I says, “I already committed myself to Georgia.” And while I was waiting to go to Georgia, I had a job with Mr. Ketron, the alumnus from Georgia who played at Georgia. He was the manager of a Coca Cola plant, and he says, “Son as long as you go to Georgia, you will always have a job here with the Coca Cola Company.” So when I graduated on Friday, that Monday morning, I am driving a Coca Cola truck and I have a route, and I am making more money than my dad. My dad back then during the depression was on WPA, making $90 a month supporting five children, and I was making between $25 and $30 a week. I am making more money than my father, plus I was playing semi-pro baseball and I was making $5 every Sunday playing with the team. They paid me to play. I says, “Good!” So of course, when I came to Georgia I didn’t know what really was going to transpire because I heard a lot of bad things about Georgia. I had one failure. Some fella came to Georgia and told me, boy when you go to Georgia, he says it is like a meat house and they just scrimmage all the time, and knock the hell out of you, and everything like that. He kind of discouraged me. But when I came to Georgia, I have a job to do, because here I am playing the same position as an All American, Frank Sinkwich, you know, and who was touted to be a Heisman Award winner--and I said to myself, boy I have got a job to do here. So my sophomore year I was having token playing time the first three games of the season in 1942--but apparently what I did during that period of time, the coaches were impressed. So I did probably something that the team never experienced-- they put me in the backfield with Frank and Frank moved to full back and I was the tail back--and of course we went on to win ten out of eleven games that year. We ended up in the Rose Bowl. When we got out to the Rose Bowl, Frank came up with two bad ankles--and the day before the Rose Bowl Game, Coach Butts corners me and says, “You know Charlie, you are going to have to go all the way, cause Frank cannot play.” I says “Well, I am ready to play”. I says, “Whatever happens, I don’t know, but I am ready to play.” So I did play 58 minutes of that game, which is very unusual today. Back then we played on both sides of the football, we played offense and defense. Coach Butts had a philosophy in football. If you can’t play defense, you can’t play offense. So we adapted to that sort of system, and to me--I played in a lot of outstanding games during my career, but the Rose Bowl would always stick out, being probably the greatest thrill I ever got out of football. While I was at Georgia I played in three Bowl games. I played in a game in Montgomery, Alabama, North-South Game. I played in that. Then I played in four college All-Star games. I am the only guy that ever played in four college All-Star games in Chicago. Back then, they didn’t have rules when you were in the service. I would always allocate my furlough to play in the game, which I did. I also played the fifth time in the All-Star game as a pro. When you won the championship game, then the next year you played the college All-Stars and that is what we did, so I had a fabulous career. I earned a lot of good things from it and of course I was paid very well. I know when I went into professional football, the perception back then was you know, if you could get a good contract back then, you were very fortunate. But it so happened when I negotiated my contract, I was negotiating with a new football league that was organizing, the American Football League. They had two different pro organizations, and of course I was negotiating between both of them. I was negotiating with the New York Yankees and the Cardinals. I went to New York to discuss the contract, and I was kind of a little apprehensive about their dealings, because I was in the market then to play both professional baseball and football--so in 1947 Earl Mann came to see me play, and signed me up to a contract. He gave me a $10,000 bonus. He says Charlie, “This is the most money I have ever given a ball player to play in AA Baseball.” He says “Ya know, it is going to be a lot different playing then you had playing in college baseball”. I said, “Mr. Mann, you can’t give me enough money for me to go to Atlanta and embarrass myself.” I says, “I am going there because I know I can play, because I played in the service with major leaguers and I competed on the same level with them and did quite well.” I says, “I am signing with you because I know I can play,” and that I did. I hit 335 for him, and the next year he wanted to sell me to the Boston Red Sox. But I had such a lucrative contract playing football, I didn’t want to give that up. So when I signed up with the Cardinals, I signed a four-year contract for $100,000. Back then, that was way out of line. People didn’t realize that you could make that much money playing professional football, but today I am embarrassed to say I only made $25,000, because now they are making millions. I never dreamed that anybody playing professional football would ever make a million dollars, which is occurring today. So when I finished negotiating those contracts, of course the first year I go up with the Cardinals we win the world’s championship, the National Football League, we win the championship, and you know--of course then people start realizing that I was worth what I was getting. So I managed to put all that together--and as life went on, I played nine years with the Cardinals, and ended up coaching five years with them. So I spent fourteen years with the Chicago Cardinals. After I finished coaching with the Cardinals, I coached with Coach Butts five years here at the University of Georgia. But when I started coaching with Coach Butts, it was a different sort of atmosphere because for the longest time I never could confront Coach Butts and be comfortable talking with him until I started coaching with him--but when you coach with a guy and you spend fifteen hours a day on both football field and then meetings and everything, then you got to know him real good. The funny thing about Coach Butts is--we were playing Florida one year and we got down near the goal line. We had 4 and about 10-12 yards to go to score on the fourth down. I says, “Coach don’t you think we ought to kick a field goal?” And his answer was no--he says, “You don’t ever win football games with field goals”. I just got back from professional football and I knew what field goals did to a football team, so I didn’t answer him, because I never talked back to Coach Butts. Whatever he said was the scheme of the day. We had a good place-kicker back in 1942, Leo Costa. He was a good extra point kicker. Would you believe he played three years in Georgia and never kicked a field goal? That is almost impossible to believe, and in the era you see today, the field goals. I watched a football game the other day and the score ended up 9 to 6 and they kicked five field goals in that game, so if Coach Butts was alive today, he wouldn’t believe what was actually occurring on the football fields. LANE: Charlie, talk some more about some of the other coaches you had. I know Coach Whitworth. TRIPPI: When I coached at Georgia, Coach Whitworth was the line coach. I was the backfield coach. We had a guy by the name of Gregory who was the end coach and Paul--oh, I can’t think of his name, he ended up coaching at Auburn. He was one of the line coaches. Paul--I can’t think of his name--but back then we had staffs that I think each position, we had a coach for each position, with the defensive coach, a defensive line coach, an offensive line coach, Wyatt Posy was the offensive line coach, and I was the offensive back coach, and then we had somebody for the defense coaches. It was well organized, and you see that today. They have a coach for almost every position. I imagine they must have about ten coaches on the staff today, at least that many yeah. LANE: Talk to us. Let’s go back to your arrival on the campus. What was your very first impression? You said you had a very nice welcome, but coming at Christmas time down to Athens from Pennsylvania, what was your impression of the physical appearance of the campus. TRIPPI: Well my impression wasn’t too good when I left Pittston, because when I got on the Greyhound bus and it took me a-day-and-a-half to get to Athens-- LANE: You were worn out, huh? TRIPPI: But I wanted to get there. Even if it took a week, I wanted to go there, because that was the only chance I had in my life to improve my life. Because I wanted to play football, I wanted to make a contribution to the program wherever I went. It happened to be Georgia, and that is where I ended up. LANE: You were at school here at a tumultuous time. War interrupted your schooling. What was life like on campus. I know-- TRIPPI: Yeah. Well, I think we only had about 2,500 students, and we got to know each other a lot easier than it is today. I guess they got 35,000. I don’t know whether I would be comfortable in a school that has 35,000, but we had good relationships back when I first came to Georgia. We got to know everybody, and you know we spent a lot of time on the campus talking, or going into drug store, or having a Coke or something like that, but the relationship back then was a lot closer than it is today. Nobody had any automobiles and nobody had any money. When I came to Georgia, my scholarship was--I got $10 a month and they did my laundry. That was it. $10 took care of everything that I had to do. If I wanted to buy a Coke. If I wanted to go to the Varsity. If I wanted to buy shaving cream or anything of that nature, that was it. That is what I lived on. LANE: That is amazing. TRIPPI: But my first year Christmas. See I established myself as a football player my freshman year. You know they were quite happy with me, and the team was going to the Orange Bowl that year, and Coach Butts asked me if I wanted to go and I said no, I wanted to go home. He says, “Well that is up to you.” So when it came time to go home, I didn’t have any money to take the bus, so Coach Hollis was in charge of things back then. LANE: That is Howell Hollis? TRIPPI: Yeah and I went to see Coach Hollis, and I says, “Coach, I need money to go home. I need a bus ticket. I don’t want money. Just give me a bus ticket to go home and come back.” He says, “Well we can’t do that.” I says, “Well—” He says, “I can only give you a one-way ticket.” I said fine. If you want me, come and get me. I’ll stay home. He said wait a while. I will give you the other ticket. I knew right then and there, they wanted me to play football at Georgia because I already established myself as a freshman. So I says, “If you only want to give me one way, fine. If you want me back, come and get me.” So he finally agreed to give me a bus ticket to go both ways. LANE: A round trip ticket. Found a way to do that to get you back. TRIPPI: Yeah to come back. Yeah. LANE: What was your major in college? TRIPPI: I started out in business school. I believe my first two years I was in business school. Then I went in the service. Then I got out of the service in October around the end of October, and I was already one month behind in my education to pursue a business education, so I switched to Phys. Ed. Where I knew I could probably pass my work then. I was afraid if I pursued a business education, I was so far behind that I might flunk out, and I didn’t want to do that. I mean there is three things I wanted to do when I left home. Number one, I wanted to get a college degree. Number two, I wanted to make All American. Number three, establish myself where I give my family a decent standard of living, which I accomplished, and that is what I wanted to do. LANE: You reached all your goals. TRIPPI: Yes. Yes. LANE: Do you remember a favorite professor? TRIPPI: I had one, I think his name was Armstrong. He was quite a sports fan and he was a golfer, and I would communicate with him, and I had him when I first was taking business under him. I think it was oh business six or something like that. He always had a worksheet to fill out and everything of that nature, and I was always business oriented, and I enjoyed the business aspect of my education, but as I said earlier, I got so far behind when I got out of the service, I was afraid to pursue it because I might flunk out, and I didn’t want to do that. LANE: No, I understand. TRIPPI: I mean I didn’t ever want to go home as a failure. That was one thing. When I left home, I was going to come back as a form of success in some way. Either in education, athletics or in business or something like that. I just never want to be a failure in anything. LANE: You more than did that. TRIPPI: Well, I tried to do that, yeah. LANE: What was life like on campus? I know social life you were in a fraternity. TRIPPI: Well I was a Lambda Kai because they paid for me to be one. I didn’t have the money to join the fraternity back then. There was a gentleman out of Alabama. Oh I forget his name. He was a big Lambda Kai man and says that we want you in our fraternity, and we are going to take care of all the expenses. I said well it is a good thing, because I haven’t got the money. I only have $10 a month and that is the only way I got into the fraternity, because they paid for it. LANE: Where did you live on campus? Did you live on campus or off campus? TRIPPI: No we had a football dormitory, Payne Hall. That was our football dormitory, and the basement there was our dining room, and we eat our meals there and go to class from there. LANE: And the stadium was right behind there. TRIPPI: The stadium was right there. Yeah and talking about the stadium, I have always said the worst possible scenario you can ever have in football is to have the practice field next to the stadium, because if things didn’t go to suit Coach Butts during practice, we would move into the stadium, put the lights on and end up eating dinner at 8:30 at night. LANE: Practice some more, huh? TRIPPI: Practice had to be perfect for him to say well okay we’re finished. If it didn’t we would move into the stadium. So I tell everybody don’t ever go to college where they have the practice field next to the stadium. LANE: Well the new Georgia encyclopedia, as I did a little research on you, said that Coach Babright said that Trippi was the greatest college football player ever. TRIPPI: Well that is debatable. LANE: Well-- TRIPPI: I don’t know. LANE: Well, I think-- TRIPPI: I had good days I guess. You know a lot of time when you have a good day against a team, the coaches and press like Bobbie Dodd said the same thing, course I guess Georgia Tech, course I had very unusual days against them, because the three years I played against Georgia Tech we scored over 100 points and they only scored 7 in three years, which doesn’t seem possible, but that is exactly what happened. Of course when you have big days against certain coaches, they get impressed and they make statements like that. LANE: You mentioned earlier that probably the Rose Bowl was the thing that is most memorable to you. TRIPPI: The Rose Bowl has a certain mystique about it. You know when you step on there the adrenaline just works up to a pitch that you can’t wait for the game to start. I know we went to practice the day before the Rose Bowl game, and my gosh you could feel the adrenaline pumping, and you know you just can’t wait for the game to start. And as I said earlier, I really got my money’s worth. I played 58 minutes of that game, which was great. Actually if they said sleep here tonight, I would have, because you don’t get that opportunity to play in a Rose Bowl game but once in a lifetime and that was the making of my career really playing in the Rose Bowl. LANE: Talk about the festivities, all the things that when on when you were out there. TRIPPI: Yes Paramount had a luncheon for us. They had all the movie starlets, and I sat between Barbara Burton and Susan Hayworth, the two stars. LANE: Not a bad seat. TRIPPI: All the athletes sat between a movie star, which was great, you know, and Bob Hope was there and Ginger Rogers was there, Susan Hayward, Barbara Burton ; all the stars that belonged to Paramount were there, and they really put on a good show for us. After the game we were entertained at Aero Carol (? sp), which featured the most beautiful women in the world where they put on a show for us and everything like that, so we were entertained. We stayed out there three days after the game and then the stars invited us to their places. I am trying to think of the Georgia girl that invited us over. Five of us went over-- LANE: Evelyn Keyes. TRIPPI: No, no, she used to do a soap commercial. I can’t think of her name right now. But we went to her place. She had a nice swimming pool there, and we had lunch there with them. It was just fabulous you know. I didn’t think life could be that good. LANE: Quite an experience. Then the war intervened, and were you Army Air Corps, is that what you were? TRIPPI: I was in the Air Force, yes. LANE: Where were you, Charlie? TRIPPI: Well I started out in Greensboro. I played both baseball and football there. Then I went to the third Air Force in Charlotte and played on the third Air Force football team. From there we went to our headquarters in Tampa, so I played football there, but I lived out of Clearwater Beach, so what we did, most of us lived out there, so we would commute back and forth. We would go to practice in the morning at the base. We would have lunch, and then we would go home. That was our job for the day. We had no duties at all. All we did was practice football and go home, and go to the beach. LANE: So you represented the Air Force on a football team for your years? TRIPPI: Yes. That is all I did in the service. I never held a gun. I never went to Bevalac, I never did anything. All I did was play baseball and football. I didn’t feel like I was in the service really. LANE: And you all won too I bet? TRIPPI: Yes. We had good teams, yes. LANE: You returned to Athens for part of the 1945 season, was that right. TRIPPI: Yes, as I expressed earlier, I was a month late. They had already played five games when I got here, see. LANE: But they were able to work you into school and onto the field before the end of the season, right. TRIPPI: Yes. LANE: Was that the season you went to the Oil Bowl? TRIPPI: Yes, we played Tulsa in the Oil Bowl, yeah. LANE: Then in 1946, you were the captain of the team. TRIPPI: That’s right. LANE: And it was an undefeated season. TRIPPI: Undefeated and we went to the Sugar Bowl. LANE: SEC Championship? TRIPPI: Yes. LANE: Another memorable year while you were there? TRIPPI: That was a great year because it was my last year and I was the captain of the team and I wanted to leave on a good note, you know, and get ready for professional football. LANE: What were some of the highlights of that year? Was Johnny Rausch the quarterback? TRIPPI: Johnny Rausch was the quarterback, and a good quarterback. Johnny Rausch started out as a freshman and played in four bowl games as a quarterback, which is a record you know. Normally you know freshmen are to be seen and not be active on the football field, but he did the job and quite well. LANE: Those freshmen quarterbacks as we have seen this fall, can make a difference can’t they? TRIPPI: Yes they can, if they are good. LANE: That’s right. TRIPPI: Normally you know you don’t want to play them too quick where they lose their confidence. You want to build up their confidence if anything, and play them accordingly to the situation of the game, but this kid Stafford is going to be a good quarterback, because he is big and strong, and he has got a good arm and the experience he got this year, he is going to be a lot better next year, and he will progress each year he plays. LANE: That sounds good coming from you to the rest of us, so--you played--you indicated earlier that you decided not to go into professional baseball, but to concentrate solely on pro football. TRIPPI: That is true, because I already made a commitment with the Cardinals as I said. I had a contract that baseball could not match really. Back then, baseball wasn’t a really high paid profession, unless you established yourself in the league and played three, four years, then you could command a pretty good salary, but if I started out in baseball back then, I would have probably made about $10,000 compared to $25,000. I could see the difference. LANE: Talk to us. Describe the Dream Backfield of the Chicago Cardinals. You did win the NFL Championship that first year. Talk about that. TRIPPI: The Dream Backfield was a group of men that we all pulled for each other. We had a good chemistry between us, and we enjoyed watching each guy do good on the football field. And we always felt, regardless who scored, the team scored, and we never looked back and say one guy won the game or lost the game. We were a team, and that is the way we played as the Green Backfield, and as I said, we enjoyed watching each of us do good on the field, and of course when you win the National Football Championship, that is about the best prize you can get in professional football. And the following year actually we had a better team in 48, and we lost in the championship game in Philadelphia. We played in a foot of snow almost. You couldn’t even see the lines, and the officials improvised the game as we went out. They would say first down, so what. So what. You couldn’t say measure it, because you couldn’t see the lines. So it wasn’t really a football game actually. What the commissioner should have done then, and he was there, he should have called the game off and said this is not a football game. Here we are, we played all year to reach that point and then play under those conditions, and the fans got cheated too, because it was really a push and pull, and we lost that game 7-0 and it really wasn’t an exhibition of football. LANE: Who was the coach of the Cardinals, and who was in the Dream Backfield? TRIPPI: Well, our coach was Jimmy Conzelman, quite an individual. Sharp, sharp individual, and the Dream Backfield had Paul Christman from Missouri was our quarterback. Elmer Angsman from--well actually Marshall Goldberg started out as part of the Dream Backfield, but then he went to defense. Marshall played at Pittsburgh, but Elmer Angsman was a Notre Dame ball player. Pat Harder was from Wisconsin, and of course then I played from Georgia. That was the makeup of the team. LANE: And you all ended up playing the Philadelphia Eagles-- TRIPPI: Twice in the championship games, yes. We reached the championship plateau two years in a row. LANE: So you thought that was the way it ought to be every year, didn’t you? TRIPPI: Boy, I was fooled, but you know when you win like that you become more susceptible to being beaten because everybody likes to beat a champion. LANE: Right. It is fun to win. TRIPPI: You are not kidding. LANE: You played nine seasons for Chicago? TRIPPI: Nine seasons and coached five years with them. So actually I spent fourteen years with them. LANE: Did you enjoy coaching? TRIPPI: Yes, yes. LANE: And then came to Georgia and coached here a little. TRIPPI: And then I coached here five years. LANE: Now do I have it right? Weren’t you the head baseball coach here? TRIPPI: Yes, two years I coached baseball. LANE: That is great. Talk to us a little bit about your family. TRIPPI: Well, I have a family ; three children. My first wife died in 1971, and uh one of my daughter’s went to the University of Georgia. She graduated, and today she is a teacher in Cocoa Florida, doing quite well. She ended up with a doctorate degree. My one daughter works for Thornton Brothers. She does all the administration, and I have a son Charles, who is in Atlanta, working over there with some outfit. They work with communications and things of that nature. So I remarried, well let me see 29 years ago. I married my present wife and between us now we have six children, and fifteen grandchildren. We have a house full. LANE: Goodness, you do. Well I think, he is somebody, you were selected to the college football Hall of Fame, the pro football Hall of Fame, the Rose Bowl Hall of Fame, the Georgia Sports Hall of Fame, won the Maxwell Award, you have been successful in your life Charlie, have a wonderful family, TRIPPI: Yes, thank you. LANE: You know and you can get on your roof to clean out the gutters. It has been a-- TRIPPI: That is my hobby--taking care of my house, my yard, and everything that is necessary I do. LANE: Well you have had just a wonderful life, and I know that we are going to look forward to more awards and outstanding things from you right? TRIPPI: I don’t know. Are there any more left? LANE: I don’t think so. I think you have won them all. TRIPPI: You left out, I’m in the Pennsylvania Hall of Fame. The Italian Hall of Fame. LANE: Oh, I am going to add those to the list. TRIPPI: Ah, I am just hall of famed out! LANE: (laughs) Do you gentleman have anything else you would like to add? Unknown male: I have a question about the Rose Bowl, Mr. Trippi. I understand that January of ‘42, was a month after Pearl Harbor and there was some anxiety about Japanese attacking the West Coast, did that ever play into the Rose Bowl. TRIPPI: I think in 1941, it happened more than in ‘42. As you know in 1941, they played it in Durham, North Carolina, the Rose Bowl game. People don’t realize that, because of the danger when the war started. They were afraid they might attack. LANE: ‘Cause Pearl Harbor was December 7, 1941, wasn’t it? TRIPPI: Yeah. LANE: So that is was within a month. TRIPPI: Yeah, so they changed that game to Durham, and of course the following year things kind of eased up a little and we played it in California. LANE: Anything else? OFF-CAMERA: No. LANE: Charlie, we have loved having you. TRIPPI: I enjoyed it. I am waiting for Claude to come up with something. CLAUDE (OFF-CAMERA): No, I am in awe. LANE: I have a question. TRIPPI: Why were you number 62? LANE: That is a good question. TRIPPI: Well, when I was a freshman I got in line to get a jersey. The guy in front of me got 61, so I got 62. LANE: Is that right? So they didn’t divide the team the way we do now with the backs having the lower numbers? TRIPPI: Back then, I never would ask to change, because I was always afraid. With Coach Butts you didn’t negotiate anything. LANE: He was a tough guy. TRIPPI: All he wanted you to do, he wanted you to perform. If I had to do it over again, I would have started out what my number was in high school, number 10. That is what I really would have loved, so I started out with 62. Then when I got into pro football, I wore 62. Then they changed the rules. See to play in the backfield was from I think you could use smaller numbers like a 1, 2, or 3, and 62 would be a guard. LANE: Right TRIPPI: and 70’s were tackles, and 80’s were ends, and now if you was a defensive back, you could wear any number, but when they changed the numbers, they said now I had the option to keep 62, but in order to do that, every time I would come into the football game, I would have to report to the official. If I didn’t we would be penalized. So I said oh heck on that. I don’t want to ever put my team in jeopardy because of my stupidity. Not asking to play. So I changed it to number 2. I took half of it. So that is why I ended up with number 2. LANE: My secretary has brought something in for you to sign today for her husband, and she has a story about 62 that she wants to tell you. TRIPPI: Fine. I didn’t know there was a story. LANE: Well her husband idolized you, and she will tell you now. [END OF INTERVIEW] Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL407GBOH-010.xml RBRL407GBOH-010.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL407GBOH/findingaid
Location
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Athens, Georgia
Duration
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45 minutes
Repository
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
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Title
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Interview with Charley Trippi, December 5, 2006
Identifier
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RBRL407GBOH-010
Creator
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Charley Trippi
Fran Lane
Format
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video
oral histories
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Coverage
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Athens, Georgia
Subject
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Sports
Coaches (Athletics)
Description
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Trippi reflects upon growing up in a Pennsylvania coal mining community during the Great Depression and the way it motivated him to pursue education and professional athletics. He discusses accepting an offer from UGA to play football and his memorable experiences at UGA, particularly the 1943 Rose Bowl. He remembers serving in the Air Force during World War II, playing AA baseball with the New York Yankees, playing nine seasons with the Arizona Cardinals football team, coaching for five years with the Cardinals, and coaching football at UGA.
Date
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2007-12-05
Type
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moving image
OHMS