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Dublin Core
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Title
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Series I. Ellis G. Arnall
Description
An account of the resource
Series I. consists of interviews conducted by Harold Paulk (Hal) Henderson, Sr., during his research for <em>The Politics of Change in Georgia: A Political Biography of Ellis Arnall</em> (1991). The series contains nineteen interviews, some in several parts, and a recording of a speech by Herman Talmadge. Series I documents the 1966 Georgia gubernatorial election and the life of Georgia governor Ellis G. Arnall, 1943-1947. Additional interviews with Herman E. Talmadge, Georgia governor, 1948-1955 and U.S. Senator, 1956-1981, record information about Talmadge, his father (Eugene) and family, and politics in Georgia.
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49 minutes
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<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/OHARN15_Arnall/transcript" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Transcript of Interview </a></span></h3>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
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RBRL096HPH-OHARN15
Title
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Interview with Ellis Arnall, March 26, 1987
Creator
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Ellis G. Arnall
Hal Henderson
Date
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1987-03-26
Description
An account of the resource
Ellis Arnall interviewed by Hal Henderson. Topics include prison reform in Georgia, the Robert Elliot Burns case, Arnall's views on taxes and the economy during his gubernatorial administration (1943-1947), differences between Arnall’s and Ed Rivers’ political philosophies, and the role of the governor. Arnall discusses the issue of race, including his goals, philosophy, actions regarding race issues during his governorship and afterwards. Arnall talks about his political ambitions, his opinion on serving a second gubernatorial term, and his views on the election of 1946 (the three governors controversy).
Subject
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Race relations
Coverage
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Georgia
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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oral histories
Type
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sound
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Dean Rusk Oral History Collection
Subject
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United States--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
The collection consists of 172 oral history interviews with Dean Rusk and his colleagues between 1984-1989. Includes audiotapes and transcriptions documenting Rusk's life from early childhood in the 1910's through his teaching career in the 1980's. The interviews contain information on Rusk's service as U.S. Under Secretary and Secretary of State during the administrations of Presidents Truman, Kennedy, and Johnson and his involvement in foreign relations including the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Vietnam War. The interviews also document his position as president of the Rockefeller Foundation in the 1950s.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=14&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
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Richard Geary Rusk
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1984-1989
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL214DROH
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
United States
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL214DROH-RuskEE/ohms
OHMS Object Text
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5.3 Unknown Date Rusk EE, Interview with Dean Rusk, circa 1985 RBRL214DROH-RuskEE RBRL214DROH Dean Rusk Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Dean Rusk Richard Rusk J. Ralph Beaird 1:|11(5)|24(6)|35(11)|48(8)|63(2)|72(8)|88(14)|99(3)|113(13)|127(8)|141(14)|150(3)|158(8)|169(11)|183(5)|194(13)|206(2)|218(4)|231(3)|245(1)|255(3)|274(14)|285(3)|294(9)|308(6)|316(3)|326(9)|339(7)|350(3)|364(14)|374(1)|396(1)|405(14)|418(10)|439(8)|453(12)|473(6)|484(12)|496(1)|506(2)|523(6)|532(1)|545(2)|555(7)|564(7)|576(4)|586(11)|596(16)|607(2)|618(17)|630(6)|642(2)|654(1)|664(12)|681(2)|692(13)|705(9)|723(15)|737(9)|750(6)|765(11)|776(12) 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_vbp7l0e5& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_ywn7pfhk" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 0 Civil Rights and relations with other nations The question is civil rights. Rusk talks about the difficulty some foreign ambassadors had in completing every day tasks in a segregated America. Fixing race relations would help the United States' relations with other countries. ambassadors ; Arthur Goldberg ; Carl Rowan ; Civil Rights Act of 1964 ; Cosmos Club ; Mennen Williams ; Metropolitan Club ; State Department 17 261 Blacks in the State Department This was a critically important matter to us. Rusk talks about blacks in the State Department. He mentions how many black workers who went to predominantly black colleges did not pass the Foreign Service Exam. Carl Rowan ; Foreign Service Exam ; Labor Department ; Mennen Williams ; State Department ; unions 17 861 Civil Rights Act of 1964 / Race relations and Ambassadors Did it give you any problem with the members of the Senate taking this position on domestic legislation with the tradition of nonpolitical activity on the part of the State Department? Rusk talks a little bit about the Civil Rights Act, and the key senators who made the passage of the act possible. Rusk later talks about how other countries did not want black ambassadors because they believe that blacks were second class citizens. Therefore, they do not want second class ambassadors. Carl Rowan ; Chaing Kai-shek ; Civil Rights Act ; Everett Dirksen ; Jacob Javits ; New York ; Senate Judiciary Committee ; United Nations 17 1215 Testimony for the Senate Judiciary Committee / Civil Rights Bill Pop, getting back, if you will, to that hearing just for a moment. Rusk talks about his testimony to the Senate Committee on the issue of Civil Rights, and he talks about President Kennedy's intellectual view on Civil Rights. Rusk later talks about the Civil Rights Bill and the opponents to the bill. Carl Hayden ; Everett Dirksen ; Lincoln Memorial ; Lister Hill ; Martin Luther King Jr ; New York Times ; Richard B Russell ; Senate Committee ; State Department ; Strom Thurmond ; Warren Cohen 17 1894 Human Rights Convention I think it's appropriate for the United States to put forward its deepest commitments as a nation in this field of individual liberty. Rusk talks about the United States' commitment to protect civil liberties and individual liberties for people in other countries. Rusk also talks about how the US has ratified so few conventions on Human Rights. He briefly talks about Eleanor Roosevelt's role as the head of the U.N.'s Human Rights Commission, and he talks about she authored the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Cape Town ; Carl Rowan ; Civil Rights ; Eleanor Roosevelt ; Genocide Convention ; Human Rights Convention ; shore leave ; United Nations ; Universal Declaration of Human Rights 17 2533 US relations with South Africa / Zimbabwe Do you think the black and some white leaders in the civil rights movement today that are attempting to bring about change in South Africa through protests at the South African Embassy in Washington, whether they are taking the right tack? Rusk talks about the United States' relations with South Africa and how those relations were tested because of race relations. Rusk briefly talks about Zimbabwe and the government they set up. He also talks about how the United Kingdom asked for help in maintaining Rhodesia (Zimbabwe). Kenya ; Pretoria ; Rhodesia ; Senator Weicker ; South Africa ; South African Embassy ; Untied Kingdom ; Zimbabwe 17 3258 Lyndon B Johnson and the Civil Rights Bill Let's go back to 1963 and '64 for a few moments. Rusk talks about Lyndon B Johnson's role in securing the passage of the 1964 passage of the Civil Rights bill. He states how Johnson's views on Civil Rights came out of his 'deep feelings'. Arthur Goldberg ; chauffeur ; Civil Rights Bill ; Comfort, Texas ; German refugees ; Germany ; Justice Hugo Black ; Lyndon B Johnson ; race relations ; Senate ; Voting Rights Bill 17 Oral History RICHARD RUSK: The question is civil rights. Rich Rusk [speaking]. Tom will likely be here. Dean Ralph Beaird of the University of Georgia School of Law will also be doing the interviewing. Ralph, maybe we can start with you. Anyone interested in this tape can be referred to other sections and other tapes dealing with my dad' ; s boyhood, growing up in the South, and material of that nature. BEAIRD: I might start by commenting briefly on where I was in the 1960' ; s, early 1960' ; s. I was serving as Associate General Council to the National Labor Relations Board during the early part of the Kennedy Administration and then as Associate Solicitor to the Department of Labor during the latter part and some part of the Johnson Administration. DEAN RUSK: Was Arthur Goldberg Secretary of Labor? BEAIRD: Arthur Goldberg was Secretary of Labor during part of the time that I was there, and [William] Willard Wirtz was Secretary during part of the time. One of the things, Mr. Rusk, that always intrigued me, based on my years of service in government, was the role that the various officers play in developing domestic legislation. I' ; m very familiar with the OMB [Office of Management and Budget] role, clearing for the President legislation in determining whether or not it was consistent with the program of the President, and so forth. I was wondering, since you were Secretary of State during a period when the major civil rights legislation of the twentieth century was passed--I' ; m speaking primarily now of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 dealing with public accommodations, employment, and so forth--what position did the Secretary of State or the State Department take on this domestic legislation and how active were you in connection with it? DEAN RUSK: When I became President Kennedy' ; s Secretary of State, it was very clear that we had problems of almost crisis proportions on these civil rights matters, as it affected our relations with other nations. It' ; s hard now to remember, but in the early sixties, a black ambassador coming to Washington to represent his country, did not know where he could have lunch or dinner, except in another embassy. The best restaurants and hotels were closed to him. The principal private club, the Metropolitan Club, did not admit black guests. RICHARD RUSK: That' ; s a social club? DEAN RUSK: Private, city social club. Even the more liberal Cosmos Club did not have black members at that time. Such a black ambassador had great difficulty in finding office space or living accommodations for himself and his staff. He would drive his family down to a Maryland beach on a Saturday afternoon, and be turned away. His wife would frequently ask a State Department wife to go to the supermarket with her to avoid incidents. When such an ambassador wanted to visit other parts of the country, very often we would send a State Department officer on ahead of time to make all the arrangements to try to avoid incidents of one kind or another. I had one of these ambassadors sit in my office once and ask, " ; Mr. Secretary, where can I get a haircut?" ; And it was painful for me not to be able to tell him. I did tell him that he could have his hair cut where I had mine cut ; a little room just beyond the door there. And anytime he wanted to come in, there would be a barber there within sixty seconds. RICHARD RUSK: Did he take advantage of your offer? DEAN RUSK: No. This was a critically important matter to us. The State Department began to work on this from the very beginning in the sixties. We got hold of the real estate board there in Washington, D.C. and we got hold of the hotel association, things like that, and tried to move. But we soon learned what we really knew to begin with, and that is you cannot handle these civil rights issues on the basis of diplomatic passports. You can' ; t extend them just to those with diplomatic passports, and that the entire community and nation had to straighten these things out if diplomatic representation was to be conducted in the proper fashion. So these considerations put the State Department into a very active role in support of the Civil Rights Acts of the sixties, beginning with' ; 64, which dealt with public accommodations, then the Voting Rights Act and other bills which were introduced from time to time. Apart from these public issues, we had to give some thought to our own situation in the Department of State. We had relatively few blacks in the foreign service. We had very few black ambassadors. I' ; m not sure that we had any at the beginning of the sixties. I would have to check that. It was clear that looking at the State Department as a whole, the positions in the State Department for blacks were relatively junior in character, even menial, such as messengers. And we had a job to do within our own building. We appointed [G.] Mennen Williams, who was then assistant secretary of African affairs, as the Equal Opportunity Officer for the Department. He was very energetic in trying to open up these things in the Department. Now, there were some problems-- RICHARD RUSK: Pop, you' ; ve had more people working with Mennen Williams, I think Carl [Thomas] Rowan was one. Was that a regular group or committee that you created back in those years? DEAN RUSK: There was a little group put together. I wouldn' ; t call it officially a task force or thing of that sort. But Mennen Williams had someone in each bureau that was his contact point/liaison on these equal opportunity possibilities. RICHARD RUSK: Do you remember who the other members were? DEAN RUSK: No, I don' ; t. We also tried to upgrade the blacks in the Department. When I got there, there had been a messenger who had been there for many years in the Secretary' ; s office, and he had reached his limit as far as pay was concerned. But he had been unable to pass a Civil Service examination for a higher rating. I urged him to consider going to night school to prepare himself for that. But he didn' ; t want to do that. He had a family. So finally I cheated on the Civil Service Commission a little bit by simply appointing him a personal assistant to me. And that opened up the possibility for an increase in pay. But his duties remained the same. But that didn' ; t work out too well because after a few months with his new rank, he came in to see me one day in a considerable state of agitation. He said, " ; Isn' ; t Mr. So-and-So out there a personal assistant to you?" ; I said, " ; Yes, Mr. So-and-So being a foreign service officer." ; " ; Isn' ; t Mr. So-and-So a personal assistant?" ; " ; Yes." ; " ; Am I your personal assistant?" ; " ; Yes." ; He said, " ; Well, then why is it that you take them on your foreign trips and you never take me?" ; Well, I needed a messenger on my foreign trips not at all. But he became so agitated about this that we had to transfer him to the protocol office, where ever since he has been handling the baggage for visiting dignitaries coming to the United States. Then I tried to break through this idea that the menial jobs were reserved for blacks by appointing a white messenger in the Department. But that didn' ; t work because the black messengers just froze him out. Like the pullman porters ; they just wouldn' ; t have it. And that experiment didn' ; t work very well. RICHARD RUSK: You had limited success with your-- DEAN RUSK: So there are always problems connected with trying to move forward on some of these issues. We did notice, to our pain, that almost none of the black graduates of predominantly black institutions passed the Foreign Service Exam. There were blacks from Berkeley, and Harvard, and other places who passed it, but not from the predominantly black institutions. So I asked a group to study the Foreign Service Exam to see if it was culturally biased to produce that result. RICHARD RUSK: Was this back in the days before that question was raised about American educational testing? DEAN RUSK: Well, this group concluded that it was not a question of cultural bias so much as the lack of practice which these blacks from predominantly black institutions had in taking such examinations. That it was simply a lack of skill in going through that particular kind of exercise. RICHARD RUSK: The Foreign Service Exam is a real-- DEAN RUSK: --It' ; s a tough exam, a tough exam. Because sixteen thousand will take it and about three thousand will pass it. It' ; s tough because one of the purposes of the exam is to reduce the number from sixteen thousand to three thousand. Ralph, I forget, maybe you will remember since you were very much involved in Title 7 of the Civil Rights Act of ' ; 64. I forget what kind of interdepartmental machinery we had at that time to take a look at this. Do you recall? BEAIRD: Yes. I can tell you what the Labor Department did, and I think this was pervasive throughout the federal establishment. We had task forces working on collecting information data, a factual base to support the Title 7 provisions. We had to take a look to see in each department how effective the secretary or the department head had been in bringing about equal opportunity. The story was much the same as it was in the State Department, even in the Labor Department, which had been viewed by some as sort of a settlement house or a community house environment. I remember Secretary Wirtz at that time, since Secretary Goldberg had just been appointed to the Supreme Court and had taken a position there, asked a group of us to quietly try to determine the extent to which discrimination was practiced by unions in the south ; particularly in the construction industry. We came up with a report, and it was a very delicate operation which showed that there was probably as much discrimination in the building trades in the north and the west as there was in the South. Black journeymen had pretty well established a niche for themselves in such trades as brick trades, cement trades, and so forth. But it showed that in many areas of the country, there were separate and locals for blacks and whites. And in Washington, D.C., for example, we discovered the black locals did the residential and small work and the major white construction companies did the commercial, lucrative work, so to speak. But a product of all of that, I think, was first the executive order applying to government contracting, setting conditions under which the government would do business. And, then, the foundation for the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which President Johnson got through. But, as one who lived in Washington for many years, it' ; s hard to think back that only twenty-five years ago everything was segregated. DEAN RUSK: Yes. In our national capital particularly. BEAIRD: But some of the problems that you mentioned, how to make that adjustment, how to do it in a humane, constructive way, was really a difficult thing. It' ; s amazing looking back at the progress that has been made in just twenty-five years. I can' ; t imagine any other period in history when so much social change took place in a relatively peaceful way. That' ; s one of the great things. But I know you testified considerably before, particularly I think, the Senate-- DEAN RUSK: The Senate Judiciary Committee. BEAIRD: On these matters. Did it give you any problem with the members of the Senate taking this position on domestic legislation with the tradition of nonpolitical activity on the part of the State Department? DEAN RUSK: In my testimony on the Civil Rights Act, I tried to point out that the passage of such an act would have a very good and important effect on our foreign relations. I said that was the secondary reason that we should move ahead because that was the right thing to do in terms of the nature of our own society and what we ourselves ought to do. I had an altercation with Senator Strom Thurmond at that time during that testimony. As a matter of fact, many of us did not look upon the Civil Rights Act as being a partisan matter. Indeed, we had support from people across the aisle: Senator Jacob Javits, for example, people like that. There were Republicans who gave us some strong help. As a matter of fact, if one looks back on it, it was old, conservative Republican Everett Dirksen of Illinois, the Minority Leader in the Senate, who finally turned the key which unlocked the passage to those Civil Rights acts. He played a key role there because he could come up with fifteen or twenty votes in the Senate on whatever. There are two or three little anecdotes which throw some light on this. We sent Carl Rowan to Finland, one of our first black appointments. And I remember talking to a couple of African foreign ministers who advised us not to concentrate on sending black ambassadors to black Africa. He said you ought to send black ambassadors to other parts of the world and send to Africa a considerable mixture of white and black. I think what he had in mind was he felt that the blacks were still second-class citizens in the United States. And they did not want second-class ambassadors, signifying that we looked upon them as a second-class country. We had that same problem with Chiang Kai-shek during World War II when we found it very difficult to get him to accept black soldiers in the American forces in China. Then, a little later in the sixties, I remember talking to two or three black foreign ministers about why it was that the United States had not been called before the United Nations to have our ears soundly boxed for these problems we were having in our country. They gave me almost the same answer. They said, " ; The United States has no monopoly on such problems. Wherever you find different races and religions and cultural backgrounds, you have problems. We have them in our countries. But is stimulating to us is to see that the President, the Congress, and the people of the United States are now moving to find better answers in these matters than they had found before." ; They said this is very important, not just because of what happens in the United States, but because of the light that it might throw upon some of their own problems. Given the circumstances in Washington in the early sixties, it' ; s amazing that we did not run into more difficulty in the United Nations. Now we also had a similar problem as the host country to the United Nations in New York. There were delegates coming in from all over the world, of every race, religion, color, and so forth. The city of New York appointed a committee of hospitality to work on the reception of the United Nations delegates of New York and the treatment they were to be given while there. But there were a number of incidents involving race in New York City, involving U.N. delegates. The situation in New York itself was pretty highly segregated at that time. I remember in the early sixties when the General Assembly of the U.N. opened, a number of people in Harlem would put on Arab robes and come downtown and go to all the best restaurants. BEAIRD: I think I' ; ve heard you tell a story two or three times which I think probably typifies the situation in the early sixties. I understand Carl Rowan lived not too far from you and your neighborhood, and he was out mowing his lawn one day without a shirt. How about telling the story? DEAN RUSK: He was out there mowing his lawn one Saturday morning. A big Cadillac drove up to the curb and a dignified lady let her window down and put her head out the window and said, " ; Oh, boy? Boy? What are they paying you to mow this grass?" ; He turned to her and said, " ; Well, as a matter of fact, the lady of the house here lets me sleep with her." ; Off drove the Cadillac! RICHARD RUSK: Hey, Pop, for the benefit of those interested in Dean Rusk and civil rights, there is an oral history tape with Carl Rowan. And [they] should be referred to that, and also the Senate testimony that my dad gave for the Senate Judiciary Committee, 88th Congress, Senate Bill 1732. The date of that testimony was July 10, 1963. That is a very necessary piece of documentation to deal with this. Pop, getting back, if you will, to that hearing just for a moment. I dug this copy of the hearing out, the testimony out, and Dean Beaird has a copy of it. Warren Cohen calls it one of your finest moments, the testimony you gave before that Senate Committee. the New York Times editorialized about you and your testimony the very next day. Other newspaper articles, which we have copies of, say to the effect that that was really a major piece of testimony on your part. Do you care to go back and just describe the setting? We know what you said ; we have a copy of that. But just the environment, the atmosphere in that committee room: the reaction to your remarks from say people, like Lyndon Johnson, your colleagues. Evidently that was really a dramatic piece of work. DEAN RUSK: Let me say that in the State Department it was well understood by everybody that the time had come to make something happen in this field, that we just could not go on as we were. So we had no problem with wrestling with each other in the State Department over these matters. And since I was the senior cabinet officer, they asked me to lead off the cabinet testimony. I think [Robert] Bobby [Francis] Kennedy, the Attorney General, came in later. But I led off the cabinet testimony. RICHARD RUSK: At the President' ; s suggestion? DEAN RUSK: Yes. That was the plan that had been worked out. RICHARD RUSK: Did you get any coaching from him on what it was that he wanted you to say? DEAN RUSK: No. Let me say that as far as John F. Kennedy was concerned, his concern for civil rights came out of his intellect. He simply understood with his mind that these things had to be done. Remember that there were these major problems around the country: admissions to state universities, for example. I won' ; t go over all of those. There was that very dramatic march on Washington with 200,000 people there at the Lincoln Memorial to hear Martin Luther King Jr. I was not directly involved. As a matter of fact, I think it' ; s important for me to say that, although I' ; m sure Kennedy had meetings with others where I was not present about that, I was present when he decided that he, himself, would not go down to the Lincoln Memorial to take part in that demonstration. I had the impression at the time that he made that decision because he did not feel that he should horn in on their show and try to seem to capture it or diminish it in any way by his presence. I think he felt that they should have a chance to express themselves fully. My son, David [Patrick Rusk], came back from California and was one of the ushers at that demonstration, helping maintain order and providing facilities and things of that sort. He was so impressed by the experience that he remained on to take a job in the Office of the National Urban League there in Washington, D.C. I think there was a pretty strong feeling in the Congress, other than from some of the key southerners, that we just had to move. We had some bold and daring editors in the south who were moving opinion on this matter. People like [Ralph Emerson] McGill of the Atlanta Constitution. There were others. So the time had simply come. RICHARD RUSK: Do you recall the congressional vote on the Civil Rights Bill of ' ; 64? Was it a close thing? BEAIRD: The important thing at the time on that was invoking cloture. My recollection is in the Senate, in order to end debate, I think you had to have at that time two-thirds. It' ; s now been dropped to less than that. DEAN RUSK: Sixty percent. BEAIRD: But the role that Everett Dirksen played, as your dad pointed out, was a very key role. He engineered the vote on cloture. And the vote on cloture though came only after extended debate. No one can say that they were cut off. I guess it was probably one of the most debated bills in the history. One thing that I recall about it: we had to go up to the labor board to get supplemental appropriation, or to request supplemental appropriation, during the time this bill was being considered. The rule in the Congress is while there is debate of this nature, no committee can hold a hearing without the committee chairman being present. And it just happened that the chairman of this particular committee was Senator Carl [Trumbull] Hayden of Arizona. And [Joseph] Lister Hill was the subcommittee chairman. But at that time Senator Hayden was well up in years and Senator Hill almost had to lead him in. And the fact ran [through] the hearing that Senator Hayden was there and we got our supplemental. There was (an) air of electricity that prevailed. Everyone knew that something dramatic and historic was taking place in the Capitol. DEAN RUSK: One of the opponents on that bill was Senator Richard [Brevard] Russell of Georgia. I, myself, believe that his opposition was based, not just on the traditional notions of prejudice that we were familiar with in the south, but that he was strongly motivated by a constitutional point. He did not really believe that this was something that the federal government ought to get into. Anyhow, with Senator Russell in opposition you had a formidable opponent. He was one of the most skillful parliamentarians the Senate has ever seen. And he had a backlog of eighteen or twenty votes or so on this matter that he could deliver just by calling for them, among other southern senators primarily. It was not easy to get that Voting Rights Bill through. We worked on it very hard. RICHARD RUSK: Again, do you recall the circumstances of the hearing itself--immediate reaction to your testimony? What did Lyndon Johnson tell you, for example? What about your colleagues unfamiliar with some of the editorial comment? DEAN RUSK: Lyndon Johnson knew the Senate better than the Senate knew itself. He knew more about individual senators and what made them tick, and what their sources of support were back home, and so forth, than almost anybody else. So he was an expert at counting noses in the Senate on a matter of this sort. He did throw himself into the parliamentary process--the parliamentary maneuverings--that went on to get this Civil Rights Bill through. He once said, " ; I never knew a senator who was trying to do the wrong thing." ; Well now, that was probably a little generous on his part, but nevertheless he respected the Senate as an institution. He understood its workings and he understood individual senators. He knew exactly where his problems were. But his expertise on the Senate was a very handy thing for us at that time. BEAIRD: One of the questions that Strom Thurmond asked you, which I thought was an interesting one, in essence it was this: How can you support antidiscrimination domestically and not be willing to attach such a proviso to the Foreign Aid Bill? I thought you handled that rather well. Do you recall what it was that you said? DEAN RUSK: I don' ; t remember any detail, but these two things were very different in terms of our objectives and our own responsibilities. The principal point on which I had a brush with him was over his protests of these civil rights demonstrations. I told him that if I were a black I would be demonstrating, and he was horrified at that. RICHARD RUSK: Was it after this hearing that you had your little exchange with Strom Thurmond? DEAN RUSK: On the way out of the hearing room that day, Strom Thurmond came up to me and said, " ; Mr. Secretary, I' ; m not sure that you understood my questions. I' ; m from South Carolina." ; I said, " ; Senator, I understood your questions. I' ; m from Georgia." ; The interesting thing is that Senator Strom Thurmond and a lot of these other senators, Governor George [Corley] Wallace also, have changed their minds since those days. The mood of the country, the politics of the problem, changed dramatically. Martin Luther King, with whom I have had some differences on other matters, rendered a great service in keeping the civil rights movement largely peaceful in method. Had that movement turned violent, there would have been all hell to pay in this country. You probably would have wound up with martial law and all sorts of things had the blacks really turned violent at that time. It was very important for the blacks to know that things were on the move, that changes were being made, that the promised land was indeed over the hill or around the corner. BEAIRD: What do you think the role of the State Department and the Secretaries of State should be with respect to-- END OF SIDE 1 BEGINNING OF SIDE 2 DEAN RUSK: I think it' ; s appropriate for the United States to put forward its deepest commitments as a nation in this field of individual liberty. It is the basis on which we were founded, and for us to use our influence quietly, with compassion in trying to help improve the civil rights situation in other countries. I have some problem about how far one goes in linking civil rights questions to the rest of the world' ; s agenda. Because if you look around the world you will find only thirty or so constitutional democracies where civil rights are in pretty good shape. There are 130 other nations out there which have varying degrees of dictatorship where many civil rights are in disrepair. If we conditioned the rest of our foreign policy business on civil rights issues, that could be a self-selected path to isolation. We would steadily draw into this world of thirty constitutional democracies, but those other 130 nations are still out there. They are part of the world scene. They are part of the world in which we have to live. So I personally have preferred the use of persuasion and other diplomatic devices behind the scenes rather than public confrontation. On South Africa, for example, we came to a point very close to breaking relations with them when they became stubborn about receiving a black Foreign Service officer in our embassy in Pretoria. We just couldn' ; t have that, and we pressed the matter and they relented. RICHARD RUSK: Were you the one who assigned the black Foreign Service officer? DEAN RUSK: I knew it was being done. I don' ; t know whether I personally made that assignment myself. It was a normal and natural assignment. It was not something that was picked up to make a demonstration out of. But then, during the Vietnam war for a time we--Of course we had a lot of ships going around the Cape on the way to Vietnam, and for a time ships stopped off in Capetown for refueling and a bit of shore leave. But the South Africans would not accord to our black sailors, marines, the kind of treatment that we insisted Americans be given. So we moved to stop those port calls in Capetown and sent tankers along to refuel our ships at sea. RICHARD RUSK: That was largely at the instigation of Carl Rowan, I think, who really brought that thing to a head within the Department. DEAN RUSK: It' ; s possible. It' ; s possible. RICHARD RUSK: Carl remembers that. DEAN RUSK: Normally it would not come to my attention as a part of routine, what was happening then. RICHARD RUSK: He remembers you backed him up substantially on that one. DEAN RUSK: Right. BEAIRD: What do you recall about the State Department' ; s or the government' ; s position on ratification of the Human Rights Convention? DEAN RUSK: It' ; s an irony that the United States, which puts itself forward as the citadel of freedom in the world, has ratified so few conventions in the field of human rights. We have not ratified even the Genocide Convention, which I, along with the then Solicitor General, presented to the Senate on behalf of Harry Truman in 1949. It still has not been given advice and consent by the Senate, even though every administration has asked for it and every few years the Senate Foreign Relations Committee sends the bill out to the floor with the recommendation that it be given advice and consent. But, almost every year they count noses behind the scenes and find they do not have the two-thirds vote necessary for advice and consent and they don' ; t want to bring it up and have it voted down. BEAIRD: Do you think part of that could be the operation of that Convention constitutionally throughout the country or do you think people have some concern about the impact of a Convention such as that becoming domestic law? DEAN RUSK: Well I think that there were several reasons for opposition to these various--The United Nations Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, the United Nations Covenant on Economic and Social Rights not ratified ; the Inter-American Treaty on Civil Rights not ratified by the United States. RICHARD RUSK: Incidentally, Ralph, could you identify that Human Rights Convention? Do you remember the year it was put forth and exactly what was--? BEAIRD: I don' ; t remember the year, but it' ; s been ratified by about eighty countries, I think. DEAN RUSK: ' ; 63 or ' ; 64, I think. BEAIRD: It simply provides--guarantees--basic human rights to citizens or to individuals. DEAN RUSK: You see, Eleanor Roosevelt had served for a number of years as head of the U.N.' ; s Human Rights Commission. In that role she became the grandmother of the United Nations. She was really quite a person. She did that in the Truman administration. And she was the principal author of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights passed by the United Nations back during the Truman administration. At the time it was very clear in everyone' ; s mind that that declaration was not to operate as law. It wasn' ; t a treaty. It was not law. It would not be put to the Senate, and so forth. Since this was to be a declaration and not law, President Truman more or less gave Eleanor Roosevelt the lead. He more or less delegated the whole thing to her. I remember at one time while they were still drafting the Universal Declaration of Human Rights a senator came in to complain to the President about some of the things Eleanor Roosevelt was doing. Truman looked at him and said, " ; Senator, how would you like to try to give an instruction to Eleanor Roosevelt?" ; But anyhow, that was a far-ranging and ringing declaration of basic human rights. Yet we ourselves have not ratified these conventions. I think there is, Ralph, a constitutional point in the Genocide Convention because under it we would be expected, apparently, to make propaganda for genocide a prohibited act. Well that might bump into the First Amendment of our Constitution. I see no problem whatever in the Senate' ; s giving advice and consent with a reservation simply saying that if there is any conflict between this treaty and the United States Constitution, the Constitution will prevail, just to clarify that point. When Jimmy Carter put these U.N. Covenants to the Senate, he sent them down there recommending about twenty-seven reservations, declarations, understandings, statements--just a hodgepodge of things. I personally would have had a preference for simply sending it down and suggesting two, well one reservation and one statement: the statement being that this Treaty undertakes the international obligations of the United States, but its operation as law within the United States would be in accordance with appropriate legislation adopted by the national and state legislatures--something of that sort. Then secondly, the reservation that if there are any conflicts between these treaties in the American Constitution, the Constitution would prevail--and just let it go at that. RICHARD RUSK: Did you advise Jimmy Carter on that move of his? DEAN RUSK: I advised some of his people, but he had negotiated out with the senators all these picky, picky kind of problems they found with these U.N. Covenants. In order to eliminate as much opposition as possible in the Senate he had picked up points from different senators and included them in his list of reservations and statements and whatever--a rather messy way to do it. RICHARD RUSK: If I could follow that up with just a question on Jimmy Carter' ; s emphasis on human rights with regard to foreign affairs: Did you approve of the degree of enthusiasm with which he personally tried to tie human rights with these-- DEAN RUSK: Well I have already commented a bit on the subject of linking human rights matters with the rest of the world' ; s business. Also, because of what I said earlier on this tape about the situation in our own national capital in the early sixties, I felt very strongly that we should avoid sanctimony in this field because we, ourselves, had not earned the right to be sanctimonious. There were times when I did not like our sending a twenty-seven-year-old Assistant Secretary of State, a young woman, around to other countries lecturing them on human rights when our own record is so recent and we still have a lot of unfinished business here. So a lot of it turns on style and so forth. I know that there are countries in which human rights are in a better position because of the continuous and steady influence of the United States. I prefer not to name them publicly, but for the moment I will just mention Brazil, South Korea, Republic of China, and Taiwan: a number of places where human rights matters were taken more seriously because of us. I would hope that we would continue to work at it that way. BEAIRD: Do you think the black and some white leaders in the civil rights movement today that are attempting to bring about change in South Africa through protests at the South African Embassy in Washington, whether they are taking the right tack? Are they using the right technique, in your opinion, to accomplish that? DEAN RUSK: I offer the back of my hand to people who try to stage sit-ins in the South African Embassy in Washington, and I very much regret that they have been members of Congress--at least Senator [Lowell Palmer] Weicker [Jr.] of Connecticut, who participated in that. It has taken us many centuries to establish the laws with respect to the protection of embassies and the immunity of diplomatic personnel. As the host government to the South African Embassy in Washington, we have a duty to protect that embassy. As a matter of fact, the District of Columbia has a municipal ordinance which keeps demonstrators at least five hundred feet away from foreign embassies as a part of the reciprocal protection of embassies that makes international life possible. Breaking relations with the Soviet Union is one thing. One could do that if one wanted to. But abusing their embassy is another. As a matter of fact, this sounds harsh, but there' ; s only a difference of degree that separates these sit-ins in Washington from these Iranians who abused our embassy in Tehran. We have to watch that. Go back and remember that the ancient city-states could send off an ambassador and have his dead body thrown back over the wall the next day. When nations declare war on each other they protect each other' ; s embassies and diplomatic personnel and usually exchange them at the earliest convenient times through neutrals of some sort or another. I think there' ; s another element in the South African problem that bothers me and I haven' ; t been able to get very good answers on it. It' ; s very easy for people outside of South Africa, including black leaders, to call for all sorts of drastic remedies against South Africa over apartheid. I would like to know more about what the blacks who live in South Africa think about these matters. I know that some of the black leaders in South Africa are opposed to economic boycotts on South Africa on the grounds that it would be the blacks who would suffer most and first and that maintaining these open channels of communications with the rest of the world is a contribution toward the improvement of the situation in South Africa. I' ; m very dubious about economic sanctions on South Africa other than with respect to arms, which could be used for the suppression of local people. I think we need to be a little careful about this. There is also another matter for which I will be criticized by some people. There are times when this problem seems to be more at the rhetorical level than at the action level ; it is a problem of words more than it is action. For example, the overwhelming majority of blacks on the continent of Africa could force change in this situation if they were prepared to do it. Now a lot of their heads would get bashed because the white South Africans have a lot of power. But I remember having lunch once during the sixties with about a dozen black African foreign ministers. They were pressing me for American economic sanctions on South Africa. I said, " ; Well let' ; s think about that. Under the U.N. Charter it is clear that it is contemplated that if economic sanctions were imposed that steps would be taken to alleviate the harshness of the impact of these sanctions on any particular country. So let' ; s think of a United Nations sanctions fund. Let' ; s start with $100 million. Now the proportionate share of each of your countries sitting around this table would be the price of a Ford automobile. Would you people be prepared to make that contribution?" ; They just laughed at me. I negotiated for a while during the sixties between a group of black African foreign ministers and the South Africans on the basis of a formula which might be agreeable to both sides: Where the South Africans would acknowledge certain principles with which the blacks could live even though it would be recognized that the implementation of those principles would take considerable time. Well we got a formula that the black foreign ministers were willing to agree to, but at that point the white South Africans wouldn' ; t even give them the words to work with and to live on. So nothing came of that. We' ; ve always known that during this enormous decolonization movement that followed World War II that the most difficult problems would remain for the end: Such things as Zimbabwe, former Rhodesia, the Portuguese territories, South Africa. We' ; ve not only seen this enormous transfer of power from colonial powers to independent nations, but we have seen the solution, such as it is, in Zimbabwe and in the Portuguese territories. In a sense, South Africa is a kind of remaining remnant of a process that' ; s been going on all over the world since 1945. RICHARD RUSK: Can you really fault the South African regime, in view of the fact that white folks there are a very distinct minority from refusing to make further progress toward racial integration, and in view of the fact that the rest of the African nations themselves have done such a poor job in general of adhering to democratic principles and respecting the rights of their own minority groups? DEAN RUSK: Well, many wrongs don' ; t make a right. I think there are some special complications about the South African problem. For example, I think historically the whites were the ones who really settled southern Africa and the blacks there moved in later from the north to take up jobs and settle down and so forth. Another thing is that the white South Africans do not have a mother country to which to return. Many people think of the Boers as Dutch. Well the Boers came from all over Europe, so there' ; s no sense of a homeland there as it was true in, say, Rhodesia, or even Kenya. You can understand to an extent why the whites there circle the wagons and adopt this logger mentality and become very resistant to change. I think there are a lot of things they could do that would improve the situation. BEAIRD: They have a, probably a, good prototype right next door in Zimbabwe. Five years after the establishment of black majority rule there--I think there are something like 300,000-plus whites and seven or eight million blacks. How would you assess the situation there now as compared to, say, six or seven years ago, or eight or ten years ago, and as a prototype for South Africa? DEAN RUSK: I think the situation in Zimbabwe has deteriorated significantly since independence. There is no longer a two- or multi-party system there in politics. It' ; s a one-party system. For all practical purposes it' ; s a dictatorship. And there is continuing pressure on the whites. Kenya came as close to a reconciliation between whites and blacks when Kenya became independent, largely through the leadership of President [Jomo] Kenyatta who has once been a Mau Mau. But he thought this ought to be effected in behalf of Kenya. There are tensions, and they will continue so long as different races are in direct contact with each other. SCHOENBAUM: As Secretary of State, how were you called upon to deal with the problems of Ian Smith and U.D.I. [Unilateral Declaration of Independence] in Rhodesia and, for that matter, any other independence issues that came up? DEAN RUSK: The British came to us and asked for our active help on the Rhodesian question when Ian Smith began to act up with U.D.I. and so forth. We said to the British, " ; Now look, this is still another one of those problems that emerged from the breakup of the British empire. Now our basket is full. You folks in London handle this problem. If you reach a point where you think there is something on which we might be helpful, come to see us and we will try to see what we can do." ; Well, the British themselves reached a point where they thought it might be helpful to go to the U.N. Security Council and ask for economic sanctions on Ian Smith' ; s government. And because of what I just said we voted for that resolution in the Security Council, which passed with the necessary votes. That was a Chapter 7 resolution which was binding upon the members. So President Johnson, under the United Nations Participation Act, issued the executive order giving effect to the economic sanctions imposed on Ian Smith by the U.N. Security Council. That created some resistance in our own Congress and for a brief period they passed legislation overriding that executive order, particularly with regard to the trade in chrome because rumors were circulating that the Russians were buying chrome from Rhodesia during this period of sanctions and then selling it to the rest of us at a much higher price. That kind of thing sort of angered the Congress, so at that time they overrode it. SCHOENBAUM: Were the British generally satisfied with the cooperation of the United States or did you find yourself not being able to fulfill the obligation--? DEAN RUSK: Oh, I think the British would have been glad to see us out front more than we were willing to become. SCHOENBAUM: Was this a conversation directly with the Prime Minister or with a foreign minister? DEAN RUSK: No, diplomatic level. BEAIRD: Let' ; s go back to 1963 and ' ; 64 for a few moments. I know from being in Washington at the time most of the people thought it was the leadership, the single-focused leadership, of President Johnson that secured the passage of the 1964 Civil Rights Bill. Was there any group in the executive branch that had primary responsibility for dealing with the Congress on that piece of legislation? Was there a task force? What was the role of the cabinet? I know you testified and so forth. Was that the top priority piece of legislation for that year? What was the atmosphere in the White House? DEAN RUSK: The primary responsibility among the cabinet departments was the Justice Department, but they called freely on the rest of us for any help and the, of course LBJ threw himself into it. I mentioned earlier that President Kennedy' ; s approach to these civil rights matters came out of his intellect, out of his mind. In the case of Lyndon Johnson, when it was no longer necessary for him to be elected as senator from Texas, all these civil rights views that had been in his guts and in his glands all of his life simply erupted like a volcano. His approach to civil rights came out of his deep feelings. He was a little bit like Justice [Hugo LaFayette] Black of the Supreme Court, who in an hour-long interview once said, " ; I didn' ; t have to have lawyers tell me that separate was not equal in our school system. I' ; ve known that all my life. I grew up with it." ; Well Lyndon Johnson had grown up with that all of his life. He knew what the situation was. It may be that his attitude was shaped in part by the fact that he was born and grew up in a section of Texas which was settled by many of the refugees from the German Revolution of 1836--was it? SCHOENBAUM: 1830 and 1848. DEAN RUSK: The liberal view of these German refugees made its imprint there. There was a little town in Texas called Comfort, where at the time of the Civil War all of the able-bodied men set out for the North to join the Union army and they were all killed on their way. I myself am convinced that the civil rights attitudes of Lyndon Johnson came out of some very deep personal commitments on his part and were not just a question of political maneuver. RICHARD RUSK: In that sense Johnson himself had a more sincere commitment. DEAN RUSK: A deeper commitment. SCHOENBAUM: Did he discuss his views specifically with you? DEAN RUSK: Oh yes, a number of times, and we discussed them in cabinet. But the principle legislative responsibility lay with the Justice Department. The rest of us were all on call for any help we could be. RICHARD RUSK: Do you remember any of the specifics of that counsel you may have given Lyndon Johnson on civil rights matters, either personally between the two of you or at the cabinet table? DEAN RUSK: Not any specifics, but I was strongly in favor of further action. I was in favor of as much action as the traffic would bear at any given time. I didn' ; t think that we should--by the way, remember that along with these so-called Civil Rights Bills, we made some fundamental revisions in our immigration laws to eliminate elements of racial discrimination from our immigration laws. That occurred during this same period. BEAIRD: Do you think that the emotional involvement of the President is probably the key factor in getting that piece of legislation passed. DEAN RUSK: Yes. I think one of the most dramatic evenings I ever spent in my life was at that joint session of Congress which he addressed on behalf of the Voting Rights Bill. One interesting thing that might seem indiscreet to put on the record, but at those joint sessions the Supreme Court comes in and sits on the front row of one section of the House. The Cabinet comes in and sits on the front row of another section. Normally on one of those joint sessions when the President is speaking, the Supreme Court Justices just sit there and listen. But that evening when he was speaking on voting rights I could peep out of my eye and see these Supreme Court Justices applauding and clapping their hands, which was very untypical of the conduct of the Supreme Court in those joint sessions of Congress. SCHOENBAUM: Was that the speech that he ended with, " ; We shall overcome?" ; DEAN RUSK: Maybe so. He recounted some of the civil rights issues in his own experience, such as the problems his own chauffer had in driving from Texas to Washington or back--where to stay, where to go to the bathroom, where to eat, and that kind of thing. He said in practically so many words to the Congress, " ; Now I have known about these problems all my life, but now I can do something about it." ; And he looked at the Congress and he said, " ; And you' ; re going to help me." ; (laughter) SCHOENBAUM: Vintage LBJ. DEAN RUSK: Yeah! BEAIRD: Arthur Goldberg came out of the labor movement and the labor movement had always been, at least in terms of rhetoric, a strong point of civil rights and so forth. Did he play a major role, do you recall, before going on to the Supreme Court, in these civil rights efforts? DEAN RUSK: Yes. He was what I would call an " ; old school liberal" ; , more or less as I was. He was one of those who remembered that the word liberal is associated with the concept of human freedom. He was very strong in support of these civil rights matters and he helped to mobilize some of the congressmen, senators with whom he was in closest touch, in support of the effort. It wasn' ; t just enough to have a senator or congressman say that he would vote for it. You needed those senators and congressmen out there in their own houses working on their colleagues, persuading them to come along and make such legislation possible. Arthur Goldberg was very good at mobilizing that kind of help. BEAIRD: I think it' ; s interesting that for a good part of that legislation the Commerce Clause was used as the constitutional base for the legislation. Later on there was an effort to use the Fourteenth Amendment, Section 5, and so forth. The Supreme Court, while agreeing primarily on the Commerce Clause, has since backed away from some of the provisions and the positions on Section 5 and also today have taken a narrow view with respect to intergovernmental relations and with respect to the Commerce Clause, The [National] League of Cities [v.] the Usery case [426 U.S. 833 (1976)]. SCHOENBAUM: If it' ; s appropriate, maybe we could switch to the period after you ended your Secretary of State two terms and get into the problems you had with the University of Georgia and the Regents. As I understand it--and I, of course, wasn' ; t here and I had third-- END OF SIDE 2 Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 RBRL214DROH-RuskEE.xml RBRL214DROH-RuskEE.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL214DROH/findingaid
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64 minutes
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Rusk EE, Interview with Dean Rusk, circa 1985
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RBRL214DROH-RuskEE
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Dean Rusk
Richard Rusk
J. Ralph Beaird
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audio
oral histories
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sound
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United States
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Civil rights
Race relations
Foreign relations
United States--Civil rights
Description
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Dean Rusk discusses the Civil Rights movement in the United States during the 1960s, the Civil Rights movement in South Africa, and problems in government dealings with foreign countries over civil rights.<br /><br /><span>This interview is continued on <a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/RBRL214DROH/RBRL214DROH-RuskFF">Rusk FF</a> and <a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/RBRL214DROH/RBRL214DROH-RuskGG">Rusk GG</a>.</span>
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ca. 1985
OHMS
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Dean Rusk Oral History Collection
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United States--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
Description
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The collection consists of 172 oral history interviews with Dean Rusk and his colleagues between 1984-1989. Includes audiotapes and transcriptions documenting Rusk's life from early childhood in the 1910's through his teaching career in the 1980's. The interviews contain information on Rusk's service as U.S. Under Secretary and Secretary of State during the administrations of Presidents Truman, Kennedy, and Johnson and his involvement in foreign relations including the Korean War, the Cuban Missile Crisis, and the Vietnam War. The interviews also document his position as president of the Rockefeller Foundation in the 1950s.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=14&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard Geary Rusk
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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1984-1989
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Oral histories
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RBRL214DROH
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United States
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL214DROH-RuskGG/ohms
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5.3 Unknown Date Rusk GG, Interview with Dean Rusk, circa 1985 RBRL214DROH-RuskGG RBRL214DROH Dean Rusk Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Dean Rusk Richard Rusk Ralph Beaird 1:|24(16)|42(1)|53(1)|63(12)|76(2)|94(1)|102(7)|113(3)|127(4)|141(4)|153(1)|162(4)|173(6)|189(9)|203(12)|220(11)|230(11)|248(7)|272(15)|288(15)|301(3)|314(7)|331(4)|354(11)|367(4)|381(5)|392(5)|402(15) 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_jnpr780r& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_cq8gmid1" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 3 Reactions to Peggy Rusk and Guy Smith's marriage The international echoes from Peggy's [Margaret Elizabeth Rusk [Mrs. Guy Smith]] marriage were quite extensive. Rusk talks about Peggy Rusk's marriage to Guy Smith. He talks about the international support they got. Rusk also mentions how he wanted to keep details of the wedding a secret in order to avoid Vietnam protesters from showing up to the wedding. Guy Smith ; marriage ; Peggy Rusk ; President Johnson ; protesters ; Senator Russell ; Stanford University ; support ; Time magazine ; Vietnam ; wedding 17 326 Indonesian independence Cohen described you as the principal influence in the Graham mission that led to Indonesian independence, the " ; only anti-colonialist venture of the early post-war years." ; Rusk talks about the US' support for the Independence of Indonesia from the Netherlands. Rusk later talks about the possibility of racial prejudice with the US' involvement in Asian politics. Burma ; George Marshall ; Graham mission ; India ; Indonesia ; Malaya ; racial attitude ; Warren Cohen 17 757 Racism Pop, either as a private citizen or a public official, have you ever been called a racist or accused of discriminatory attitudes or practices? Rusk talks about one instance when he was falsely called a racist. He also talks about how he refused to sign residential sale agreements that would prevent the future sale of these homes to blacks. Rusk later talks about his life in Scarsdale, New York. American University ; Gene McCarthy ; Jew ; racism ; racist ; Scotty Reston ; yellow peril 17 1264 Involvement with protest groups Did you ever get involved with Dave in his Urban League work in Washington while you were Secretary? Rusk talks about his run-ins with various protest groups and how he interacted with these groups. David Rusk ; Poor People's March ; Ralph Abernathy ; William Ramsey Clark 17 1446 South and race realtions I've got one final question and that is: The South has historically, and still even today, has come under criticism from other sections of the country, particularly up Worth, for being backward in their racial views and being an intolerant section of the country. Rusk talks about the nature of race relations in the different regions in the United States. Atlanta ; Boston ; Chicago ; race relations ; the North ; the South ; Watts 17 Oral History DEAN RUSK: The international echoes from Peggy' ; s [Margaret Elizabeth Rusk [Mrs. Guy Smith]] marriage were quite extensive. We had reactions from many parts of the world that we learned about. I think our own embassies abroad were somehow a little reluctant to report much on these things, but these reactions trickled in. They were all positive. RICHARD RUSK: They were? DEAN RUSK: Yeah. RICHARD RUSK: There was quite an international reaction. Do you recall specifically what happened? DEAN RUSK: No I don' ; t. RICHARD RUSK: Would the Department have compiled that stuff? DEAN RUSK: I doubt they would have set up a special classification for pulling all that together. RICHARD RUSK: What ever happened to all that hate mail we got? I understand you got some in the Department and I remember some at the house. DEAN RUSK: Oh, I would think the so-called hate mail was limited to not more than a dozen letters. RICHARD RUSK: To the home? DEAN RUSK: Or to the Department. Oh, two or three of them might have come to the Department but there was very, very little of that. RICHARD RUSK: It was certainly regarded as a significant step for its time. DEAN RUSK: Well this was big news. Time magazine ran a cover story on Peggy and Guy--on the whole, a pretty good well-balanced story. RICHARD RUSK: Do you recall what the advice was that you gave Peg and Guy on that? [break in recording] DEAN RUSK: Peggy and Guy [Smith] were married in the chapel of Stanford University. We all agreed that this marriage would not be announced in advance, and in effect made public, because I did not want the Vietnam protesters to come in there and interfere with or break up Peggy' ; s marriage. That was the sole reason why we kept it quiet ahead of time. Then the moment the marriage was over reporters, cameramen, and everybody else were all there and got their pictures and got their stories. I just didn' ; t want to have these protesters take it out on Peggy when their real object was me. So that was the sole reason for handling it that way. RICHARD RUSK: James [Howard] Meredith called that the " ; perhaps the most significant thing to date in government to affect in a favorable way the racial situation in the United States." ; That' ; s out of the Time magazine article of September 29, 1967. That was the cover story of Peggy' ; s marriage. Did you feel, in your own mind, that it was really that significant a thing in 1967? [break in recording] DEAN RUSK: Since Peggy and Guy, themselves, did not look upon this marriage as in any way symbolic of anything--they weren' ; t doing this to promote some cause or something, they were simply two young people who wanted to get married--I, myself, approached it in this same way. I did not attach or attempt to attach a lot of outside significance to it. So I never tried to interpret it in those terms because I am sure that that was not in the minds of Peggy and Guy. RICHARD RUSK: Do you recall what the reaction was among your colleagues in government, or perhaps President Johnson? DEAN RUSK: Very few of them spoke to me about it. Peggy and Guy got wedding presents from a good many of my colleagues and former colleagues. At one point I did tell Lyndon Johnson that if he thought that this wedding would make it more difficult for me to maintain my relations with the Senator the Congress, if that was his judgment, I would take that into account. He just dropped the remark one day that he had spoken to Senator [Richard Brevard] Russell [Jr.] of Georgia about it and Senator Russell had said, " ; Forget it. It won' ; t make any difference at all." ; So that was the end of that. RICHARD RUSK: Did you offer to resign? Was that part of it? DEAN RUSK: Not in so many specific words. If, indeed, some of these southern senators had taken out after me like baying hounds and made it more difficult for me to carry on my responsibilities, I would have had to think about that-- [break in recording] RICHARD RUSK: [Warren I.] Cohen described you as the principal influence in the Graham mission that led to Indonesian independence, the " ; only anti-colonialist venture of the early post-war years." ; Was race a factor in this effort with Indonesia and with respect to our foreign policy in general as a " ; unilateralist" ; ? Did your battles with the Europeanists within the Department have racial overtones? DEAN RUSK: It' ; s a little hard to measure, to extract out the racial issues from overriding political issues. You see, the United States looked with favor on the granting of independence to those large colonial areas at the end of World War II: India, Burma, Malaya, and so forth. But at the heart of the Indonesian independence issue was a very simple overriding fact. That is that the Dutch simply did not have the capability of maintaining their control over the Indonesians if the Indonesians were ready to resist, which they were. There was a very critical interview/discussion between Secretary of State George [Catlett] Marshall and the Dutch Prime Minister at the time in which Marshall simply pointed out as a military man that the Netherlands would bleed itself dry trying to assert its control over Indonesia and would fail, and that no one would come to help them, and that therefore they had no choice but to get out. I think that was the critical point, quite apart from the broad, sympathetic policy we had toward the independence of colonial areas. That was the clincher: that they simply couldn' ; t do it and we wouldn' ; t help them. RICHARD RUSK: This clash between the Europeanists and unilateralists: you know, between such people as George [Frost] Kennan and perhaps Dean [Gooderham] Acheson and others--Looking at them and from what you knew about those people personally, individually, did you think racial attitude was part of the makeup of the Europeanists? Did you ever suspect that? DEAN RUSK: It' ; s hard to sort that one out. The problems we had with these independence movements, with the Bureau of European Affairs in the State Department, derived I think fundamentally from the fact that the Bureau of European Affairs was responsible for trying to build good relations between ourselves and Europe and this was a potential major point of friction. This was at the time when we were trying to work with our friends in Europe to rebuild Europe and making the first steps toward the Marshall Plan and NATO [North Atlantic Treaty Organization] and things of that sort. So it' ; s inevitable that my office, the United Nations Office or later the Far Eastern Office, would have some differences with the Bureau of European Affairs because our responsibilities were different. RICHARD RUSK: You don' ; t remember race being discussed, per se? DEAN RUSK: No. I don' ; t think that this was on a racial basis. RICHARD RUSK: Moving ahead twenty years: Some of the critics of Vietnam have cast their objections to that war in racial terms, stating that the massive use of American fire power against Asians never would have occurred against Caucasian peoples had we been fighting Caucasians instead. How do you respond to a charge like that? DEAN RUSK: I would simply begin by saying it simply was not true. We helped South Korea defend itself against the North Koreans where Asians had elected to put themselves in the position of the aggressor. We helped South Vietnam defend itself against North Vietnam. After all, it was Asians who were moving in on South Vietnam and Laos and Cambodia. And we made a major effort during the Vietnam War to keep the impact upon civilians limited. There' ; s one story about Vietnam that has never been told and I have suggested it to a number of reporters who simply were not interested. That is the additional casualties we took because of the rules of engagement which were designed to protect civilians. RICHARD RUSK: If someone was interested in developing a story along those lines--I' ; m not saying that I' ; m the one to do it--where would they look for that material? DEAN RUSK: They would have to comb over a good deal of material. They would have to start with the Rules of Engagement, which are publicly available. Then they would have to comb over a good many materials in the Pentagon: the operational reports and things of that sort. I remember one full year after the bombing started in 1965: After one full year of that, the North Vietnamese put out a story reporting that there had been five hundred civilian casualties as a result of the bombing. Well now, in terms of bombing, five hundred for a full year is just nothing. I still have on my conscience the fact that we asked our own men sometimes to do things the hard way rather than the easy way in order to save civilian casualties. At those Tuesday luncheon sessions with President Johnson, when we were looking at a particular bombing target, if you approached the bombing target from one direction there would be less defensive resistance in terms of anti-aircraft and things of that sort, but there would be a greater risk of civilian casualties through overages or shorts. Whereas, if you went in in another way, there would be far less risk of civilian casualties but more defense. And there were times when we would send our flyers through the more difficult way in order to protect civilians. That' ; s a very tough decision to make. RICHARD RUSK: Pop, either as a private citizen or a public official, have you ever been called a racist or accused of discriminatory attitudes or practices? DEAN RUSK: I think only on one occasion. Somewhere in a press conference or something, somebody asked me about the People' ; s Republic of China and I made three very factual statements about China: One, there would be a billion of them. Second, that they would be armed with nuclear weapons. And third, that we didn' ; t know what their policies and attitudes would be twenty years down the road. Well, [James Barrett] Scotty Reston and, I think, [Eugene J.] Gene McCarthy picked that up and charged me with raising the " ; yellow peril" ; notion in racial terms. I don' ; t know anybody who didn' ; t know that there were going to be a billion Chinese and they' ; d be armed with nuclear weapons. And I didn' ; t know anybody who knew what their policies would be twenty years later. These were just very simple, factual points. Well, about two or three weeks later, Scotty Reston halfway apologized for this in one of his later columns, but it was buried so deep in there it never caught up with his original column. RICHARD RUSK: Did you call that to his attention? DEAN RUSK: I sure did. RICHARD RUSK: What did you do? Phone him? DEAN RUSK: I don' ; t know whether I saw him or phoned him. I don' ; t know. But he knew perfectly well that I wasn' ; t raising the yellow peril in racial terms. That wasn' ; t in my mind at all. And I think he would be the first today to confirm that that is so. I think that' ; s about the only time I was ever accused of personal racism. Let me think a little bit more about that. RICHARD RUSK: Both in Scarsdale, New York, and Spring Valley, Washington, D.C., you refused to sign residential sale agreements that would prevent the future sale of those homes to blacks. Do you care to comment on this and, if you would, on any other ways in which you may have lived your personal life in a racially tolerant manner. DEAN RUSK: When we bought our little home in Washington, D.C. there on Quebec Street just below American University, we found that for many, many years, decades the deed had provided that the home could not be sold to Africans or Asians or " ; denizens of the Ottoman empire" ; --(laughter) RICHARD RUSK: It was in the deed, huh? DEAN RUSK: Yeah, it was in the actual deed itself. So I asked my lawyers to figure out how we could knock that out. RICHARD RUSK: Had you already signed the agreement? DEAN RUSK: I had not closed it at that time. RICHARD RUSK: Did you see it yourself or did someone-- DEAN RUSK: Oh, I saw the deed. I have always remembered that phrase " ; denizens of the Ottoman empire." ; This was a 19th century deed, probably. My lawyers, who were themselves very liberal, advised that the process of changing a deed is so complicated, time consuming, and difficult that the best way to handle it would be simply to file a statement with the deed that I considered those clauses unconstitutional and would not comply with them. And that' ; s what I did. Of course, they maintain that kind of discrimination also by resale contracts, which I refused to sign. That is, the real estate agent from whom we bought that little house in Washington was pretty well-known around town as dealing only in properties for whites. They wanted me to sign a resale agreement that if I ever wanted to sell that house I would sell it through them. And that would help to preserve the discrimination pact. But I didn' ; t sign their resale agreement. Although, in fact, I think we may have sold the house through that particular firm, as it happened. RICHARD RUSK: Did you have an unpleasant exchange with that fellow over that point? DEAN RUSK: No. Not particularly. RICHARD RUSK: Was the Scarsdale house purchase set up the same way? DEAN RUSK: I don' ; t think it was in the deed. I think this has disappeared now, but in Scarsdale the real estate people tried to guide Jewish families into a particular section of town. RICHARD RUSK: What section of Scarsdale was that? Fox Meadow? DEAN RUSK: Fox Meadow section. They discouraged even Jews from coming into Greenacres, although we did in fact have a number of Jews there. We didn' ; t have problems with black discrimination in Scarsdale because we didn' ; t have any blacks. I don' ; t know that there were any blacks at all living in Scarsdale except as live-in maids and servants for people. RICHARD RUSK: That' ; s what I remember. DEAN RUSK: The discrimination in Scarsdale while we were there was on religious grounds rather than racial grounds. Now that has largely disappeared, I am happy to say. RICHARD RUSK: You may need a little time to think, but do you recall any ways in which you may have ordered your personal life to try to live in a racially tolerant way? [break in recording] DEAN RUSK: When we lived in Scarsdale, you will remember that the Scarsdale Golf Club was just two or three blocks down the hill across a railroad track. I was invited more than once to join. Although it would have been wonderful for you kids to have been able to-- RICHARD RUSK: It sure would. That was a great place. As a matter of fact we used to sneak on the course. DEAN RUSK: --to run down the hill for a swim or to play golf or tennis or whatever. I could not in conscience join a club to which, for example, I could not invite the trustees of the Rockefeller Foundation. And since this club would not admit Jews, much less blacks, I just refused membership. RICHARD RUSK: You had Jewish trustees at the Foundation? DEAN RUSK: Well, sure. And also, just as a general matter of principle I didn' ; t feel it was up to me to join that particular kind of situation. Whether they have changed that now, I just don' ; t know. It was typical around New York in those days to have Gentile country clubs and there were a few Jewish country clubs. RICHARD RUSK: Why was it you were rather insistent on Peg and Dave [David Patrick Rusk] and myself going to a public high school, public school system rather than a private? DEAN RUSK: Part of it was not principle at all, it was just money. (laughter) I don' ; t think we could have afforded it. But also there was a pretty general sense that if people like we were didn' ; t patronize the public schools, that we would turn the public schools more and more into a class element in our society. When I was in the cabinet in Washington you kids went to public schools. Some of the children of my good liberal friends were off in private schools. RICHARD RUSK: I would say, most of the children of your liberal friends were in private schools. DEAN RUSK: Yeah. No, we' ; ve always felt and strongly supported the public school system. Mom and I were active in PTAs [Parent-Teacher Associations] here and there, particularly active in Scarsdale. It has just been our general orientation and attitude. RICHARD RUSK: Did you ever get involved with Dave in his Urban League work in Washington while you were Secretary? Dave had entered the, joined the Urban League in the aftermath of Martin Luther King' ; s march on Washington and his famous speech of " ; I Have a Dream." ; I believe he worked there for four or five years as one of the leading officers in the Urban League. DEAN RUSK: Dave and I did not cross paths in connection with our respective jobs and responsibilities, but we saw each other frequently and talked about his work in the Urban League. I think he enjoyed it. RICHARD RUSK: Pop, do you recall meeting with any of the protest groups in the sixties while you were Secretary, related to perhaps any of the marches on Washington? DEAN RUSK: There was a poor march on Washington? RICHARD RUSK: Poor People' ; s March? DEAN RUSK: Yeah, mostly black. They came up and pitched their tents in the mud and all that sort of thing. One of the black leaders--was it Ralph [David] Abernathy? RICHARD RUSK: I think it was Ralph Abernathy, yeah. DEAN RUSK: --insisted upon meeting with me as Secretary of State. So I received him and a group of twenty-five or thirty of his colleagues. At that meeting they handed me a list of questions and points on which they wanted replies. When I looked through there, none of these had to do with foreign policy. They all were about domestic matters. So I simply distributed those questions to other cabinet members and they put together some replies. Then we assembled that and sent it over to Ralph Abernathy. Then he wanted to have another meeting with me before the news reporters and TV cameras and things of that sort. RICHARD RUSK: Was this first meeting before the press at all? DEAN RUSK: No. RICHARD RUSK: Just privately? Was it up in your office? DEAN RUSK: It was up in the Department somewhere. I don' ; t think it was in my office. There were too many of them. It was somewhere else. He wanted a press conference with me on these answers. Well, they weren' ; t my answers and I wasn' ; t prepared to get into them. It wasn' ; t my business to get into them and I refused that press conference. I didn' ; t feel that he should use me, as Secretary of State, just to create a demonstration against my cabinet colleagues by being very critical about the replies they had made to his questions. I simply refused to meet him the second time. RICHARD RUSK: I think [William] Ramsey Clark had been through that experience and I think he had advised you that it probably wasn' ; t an experience worth repeating. DEAN RUSK: That' ; s possible. RICHARD RUSK: You asked me for my opinion about it, I remember that. DEAN RUSK: Well I did meet with him the first time. RICHARD RUSK: I' ; ve got one final question and that is: The South has historically, and still even today, has come under criticism from other sections of the country, particularly up Worth, for being backward in their racial views and being an intolerant section of the country. Yet, you' ; ve grown up in the South. You' ; ve had the chance to see these issues on a national level. Care to comment upon these sectional differences? Is it in fact true, as the critics claim that it is, that the South is more intolerant toward black people? DEAN RUSK: I just don' ; t think that is true, generally speaking. I think with a little luck the South will be able to show the way to the rest of the country in race relations. You see, back in the old days when the theory was wrong about the white-black relationship, nevertheless there was an infinity of personal relationships between whites and blacks in all sorts of ways. Now, when the theory came to be straightened out, those personal relationships continued. Whites and blacks would join with each other in all sorts of common enterprises. There has been something there to build on in a way that you don' ; t have in a place like south Boston, or in Watts, or in the south side of Chicago, and things like that. RICHARD RUSK: Well there simply just hasn' ; t been any contact between the people there. DEAN RUSK: Yeah. So, I think that the South is in a position to make a major contribution on these race relations. You see, in the North, you have these problems where you have blacks. In a good many places in the North there are not any blacks so there is no problem, and they can take a very lofty attitude about these matters. Where you do have blacks in large numbers, there are problems in the North as well as in the South. They are withering away, but they are still there. RICHARD RUSK: There was a great deal of progress in race relations during the sixties, especially the earlier part of the sixties, then greater tension in the late sixties, a lot of ghettos burning, a lot of public protest ; some discouragement in the seventies, more or less in economic terms where blacks had obtained their rightful status under law, but were still suffering the effects of economic poverty and discrimination. Are you optimistic that this country will continue to make success in civil rights? DEAN RUSK: We' ; ll make progress, but the progress will depend in part on the general tone of the leadership we have in Washington, particularly in the White House. I don' ; t think that has been particularly hopeful in recent years. I think it' ; s very bad indeed that black unemployment is double that of white unemployment typically. I think it' ; s still true that the blacks do not come out of higher education as sharply trained as a good many whites. Therefore, I think it' ; s still true that some of them find that they are not competitive where competitive jobs are involved. That will steadily improve, but I just don' ; t buy this attitude that somehow the Worth is far ahead of the South in race relations these days. After all, you' ; ve got an elected black mayor of the city of Atlanta and a good many other southern cities. You' ; ve got lots of black elected officials around the South. The black business community is steadily developing and moving ahead. So I think these things are changing. END OF SIDE 1 [SIDE 2 BLANK] Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 RBRL214DROH-RuskGG.xml RBRL214DROH-RuskGG.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL214DROH/findingaid
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29 minutes
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Rusk GG, Interview with Dean Rusk, circa 1985
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RBRL214DROH-RuskGG
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Dean Rusk
Richard Rusk
Ralph Beaird
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audio
oral histories
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sound
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United States
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Subject
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Foreign relations
Race relations
Discrimination
Description
An account of the resource
Rusk discusses his experiences with racism, integration and discrimination issues, including housing discrimination in Washington and his daughter’s marriage. <br /><br />This interview is a continuation of <a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/RBRL214DROH/RBRL214DROH-RuskFF">Rusk FF</a>.
Date
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ca. 1985
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
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Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project
Subject
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United States--Officials and employees
State governments--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
Description
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The Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project consists of 175 oral history interviews relating to the personal and political life of Richard B. Russell. Interviewees include members of the Russell family, his staff and interns, other senators and public figures, and friends. The primary interviewer was Hugh Cates, a public relations manager at Southern Bell and secretary of the Russell Foundation (1977-1981). Most of the interviews were recorded between 1971 and 1979, but the majority during 1971 after Senator Russell's death. Other interviewers include: William Stueck, Karen Kelly, Barboura Raesly, Robert G. Stephens, Jr., Dwight L. Freshley, Tom Jackson, Angus Hepburn, and Russell Library staff. Interviews provide insight into Senator Russell's political career as State Representative, Governor, and U.S. Senator, his views on various topics such as civil rights and Vietnam, and his personality and family life.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=23&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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1971-2002
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL216RBROH
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Georgia
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Transcript, 14 pages
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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RBRL216RBROH-098
Title
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Interview with Christine Till, March 2, 1971
Date
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1971-03-02
Creator
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Christine Till
Description
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Interview with Christine Till, Assistant Press Secretary to Powell Moore on Senator Russell's staff. Topics include anecdotes of Senator Russell; Race relations; U.S. Defense.
Subject
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Race relations
Coverage
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United States
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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oral histories
Type
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sound
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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First Person Project
Subject
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Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
Description
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The First Person Project was launched by the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies in 2012 to record and preserve stories of life in post-twentieth century Georgia. Modeled roughly on StoryCorps, the First Person Project is smaller in scale but similar in concept--an oral history program designed to capture the stories of everyday Georgians. Interviewees are self-selecting. Pairs of friends or loved ones register to participate in the First Person Project on a designated day, and the conversation (up to forty minutes) is facilitated and recorded by Russell archivists. <br /><br />The First Person Project collects personal narratives and oral histories documenting life in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. Interviews are usually between two friends or family members and typically focus on personal stories such as relationships and family histories. Interviews also touch on larger historical and cultural themes such as racial identity, religion, environmental history, gay rights, the death penalty, and life in Athens and in Georgia.<br /><br />The First Person is divided into five series. <br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=I.+Georgia+Narratives">I. Georgia Narratives</a><br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=II.+Americus,+Georgia">II. Americus, Georgia </a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Americus, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Americus, Ga., at the Lee Council House in December 2013. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library, the UGA Archway Partnership, and the Americus Downtown Development Authority.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=III.+Hawkinsville,+Georgia">III. Hawkinsville, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Hawkinsville, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Hawkinsville, Ga., at the Hawkinsville Dispatch & News building in February 2014. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library and the UGA Archway Partnership.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=IV.+Plains,+Georgia">IV. Plains, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Plains, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Plains, Ga., at the Plains Historic Inn in February 2014. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library, the UGA Archway Partnership, and the Americus Downtown Development Authority.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=V.+Beech+Haven,+Athens,+Georgia">V. Beech Haven, Athens, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Beech Haven, Athens, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Athens, Ga., through a partnership between the Russell Library and Dr. Cari Goetcheus, College of Environment and Design, UGA.
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</div>
<br /><br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=12&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&exhibit=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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2012-2018
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL324FPP
Coverage
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Georgia
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39 minutes
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Athens, Georgia
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<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL324FPP-0029/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
Repository
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Subcollection/Series
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I. Georgia Narratives
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RBRL324FPP-0029
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Interview with Reverend Charlie Cook, December 2013
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2013-12
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Charlie Cook
Louis Boyd
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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oral histories
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sound
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Religious leaders
Religion
Segregation
Race relations
LGBTQ+ community
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Reverend Charlie Cook was born in Greer, South Carolina. As a child, Cook’s family moved around the southeast, which resulted in Cook’s exposure to different churches. Cook preached as a pastor at Wilson Presbyterian Church, Washington Presbyterian Church, Trinity Presbyterian Church and other churches in Georgia. In this interview, Cook talks about his call to ministry, his concern over racial issues growing up, his attempted integration of the Presbyterian Church, and the integration of Georgian schools. <br /><br/><br/>This interview is part of the <a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=I.+Georgia+Narratives">Georgia Narratives</a> series.
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Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Athens Oral History Project
Description
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The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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2014-ongoing
Coverage
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Athens, Georgia
Identifier
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RBRL361AOHP
Subject
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Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-004/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.2 Interview with Gwen O'Looney, Part 1, November 14, 2014 RBRL361AOHP-004 RBRL361AOHP Athens Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Gwen O'Looney Betsy Bean oral history 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_7sfpoeme& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_7z4s3y3y" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 20 Early life / Coming to Athens Gwen, would you state your full name and where you were born? O'Looney recalls her childhood growing up on St. Simons Island. She describes how she eventually came to live in Athens, Georgia after deciding to become the state coordinator of Region 10 Federal Child Abuse and Neglect Resource Center. O'Looney talks about her government proposal of the Neighbors for Helpers Programs, which eventually succeeded in being passed. O'Looney discusses the creation of the first computerized referrals system, which served as an information and resource center for the city of Athens. Athens, Georgia ; Community Connection of Northeast Georgia ; Kellogg Foundation ; Meridian Mississippi ; Redbook Magazine ; St. Simons Island ; University of Georgia 17 560 Working with Jimmy Carter / Getting into Athen's politics When did you first get into politics and what were the circumstances? O'Looney describes getting an internship with governor Jimmy Carter as his liaison in the Department of Human and Social Services. She talks about her participation in his campaign, and what she learned from the experience. O 'Looney describes her later experiences working in the Boys Club of America (now known as the Boy's and Girls Club of America) in New York City. O'Looney relates relocating to a neighborhood located on Cobb Street in Athens, Georgia. She explains how the neighborhood was endangered due to encroaching industries and public housing districts. O'Looney talks about how her the housing situation led her to become more involved in Athen's politics as a way to ensure that her neighborhood would be protected. O'Looney talks about how she ran for Tax Commissioner, and how she eventually accepted running for the position due to the refusal of other politicians. Boys and Girls Club of America ; Calvin Bridges ; Cobb Street ; Department of Human and Social Services ; Jimmy Carter ; Nancy Denson ; New York's Southerners for Carter ; Office of Voluntarism 17 975 Running for Tax Commissioner So I ran, and I walked my ward... O'Looney describes running against Nancy Denson for city council. She specifically remembers a phone conversation with Nancy Denson in which she learned about Denson's opposing views towards the community and voting privileges. O'Looney then discusses the mistake announcement of the election results. As the announcer mistakenly proclaimed that O'Looney has lost the campaign. O'Looney then discusses her views towards the transformation of the previously partisan city council into a partisan governing body, and voices her disapproval of the lack of public participation in the process. O'Looney discusses the campaign process, specifically detailing the financial aspects of running for city council. Athen's City Council ; Athens ; Calvin Bridges ; Campaigning ; Campaigning finances ; election results ; Nancy Denson 17 1426 Addressing the Athen's education system / Athen's economy So can you describe Athens during this first term that you had? O'Loooney discusses the transition of Athens's school system's directory. O'Looney describes her views toward Charles Purivs who became director of the Athen's school system, and who, according to O'Looney, disapproved of drug and sex awareness school courses. O'Looney delves into the financial corruptness experienced by Athen's government, as company owners often controlled the distribution of wealth in the city. O'Looney also talks about the economic division between the University of Georgia and Athens City, as she claims non-University related companies often neglected the monetary support of Athen's city. Charles Purvis ; education system ; Hugh Logan ; Kellogg Foundation 17 1870 Facing opposition / Plant Vogtle It was hard for an outsider. O'Looney discusses the opposition she faced in conducting her duties as a member city council. She recalls an experience where she supposedly angered the then mayor of Athens, Lauren Coile, by passing a historic preservation act, which he deemed unecessary. O'Looney relates how she was promptly placed in the finances division of city council as a result of the incident, which she recalls as being a fortunate event. O'Looney describes the discussion of building the two unit nuclear power plants, named Plant Vogtle, and focuses on the lack of debate by other council members due to the predetermined decision-making powers exhibited by the large companies. Caroline Reynolds ; Georgia Municipal Association ; Jules Johnson ; Lauren Coile ; Nancy Denson ; Plant Vogtle 17 2222 Political climate of Athen's city government / Passing the Historic Preservation Ordinance At that time, was there a liberal contingent in Athens? O'Looney describes the lack of the liberal presence in the city government of Athens. She discusses her decision not to run for mayor, due to the weariness she felt as consequence of the constant maintenance of public appeal. O'Looney discusses opposition to the passing of the Historic Preservation Ordinance and specifically how she addressed the disapproval. O'Looney also describes the former Mayor of Athens, Dwain Chambers, and his participation in the passing of the Historic Preservation ordinance. Calvin Bridges ; Dwain Chambers ; Historic Preservation Ordinance ; Paul Kyne 17 2634 Race relations in city council / Controversy surrounding alcohol consumption During this time, what were the race relations like in Athens...? O'Looney discusses how the absolute power of the mayor of Athens resulted in the consolidation of power from the hands of the Athen's city government. She explains how this led to the East Athens community city council representation (a primarily African American district) to be controlled, along with the rest of city council, primarily by the decisions of the mayor. O'Looney addresses the issue of alcohol consumption in Athens and the controversy surrounding it. O'Looney describes her position and her approval of widening the alcohol selling hours, as a deterrent to students who might feel the need to travel for alcohol. O'Looney also discusses the large Christian influence on the Athen's city government. alcohol ; East Athens community ; Ed Turner ; John Taylor ; race 17 3174 Clarke County Commissioner / Consolidation of Athens City and Clarke County What was county government like at this time? O'Looney describes the Clarke County government and she list the names of members who stuck out to her and her initial impressions of them. O'Looney talks about the issues between the Council and the City over the expansion of the Athen's city water system. She describes the advent of the Athens city and Clarke County consolidation efforts by Georgia, and the response of the public. O'Looney discusses the alcohol crackdown which was supposedly supported by mayor Dwain Chamber and Evard Price with the intent of upholding their Christian religious values. O' Looney discusses corruption in the Athen's city government, and the consequential public response to the strong-mayor form of government. alcohol ; Clarke County ; county-city consolidation ; Dwain Chambers ; Ed Benson ; Evard Price ; George Bullock ; Jim Holland ; John Jeffery ; Jule John 17 3687 Sub Rosa decision-making / Consolidation The county had control over SPLOST. O'Looney describes the what she considers to be unprofessional deals made between Lauren Coile and Jim Holland, and Buck Griffin, over the land appropriation for the building of the Athen's Classic Center. O'Looney discusses the unification of Athens city and Clarke County through the Charter Committee, which was created to inform the public of the unification efforts. O'Looney talks about the charter, written by Paul Hardy, which served as the official legitimization of the Athens City and Clarke County unification. O'Looney shares her opinion on the charter, which she describes as a well-written governmental document. Buck Griffin ; Charter Commission ; E.D Benson ; Fordson, Bently, and Griffin P.A. ; Lauren Coile ; Paul Hardy ; SPLOST (Special Purpose Local Options Sales Tax) ; Unification 17 4107 Reactions to Unification / Running for city council Was there any strong opposition? O'looney talks about the suprising lack of strong opposition towards the unification. O'Looney then discusses the upcoming election and how she decided to run a second time for city council when she was informed that both Nathan Williams and ED Benson, her political oppositions, were running for city council. O'Looney describes the anger she faced from opposition once the unification act passed, which consolidated the Athen's City and Clarke County governments into one government. Caroline Reynolds ; Dwain Chambers ; ED Benson ; George Bullock ; Jim Holland ; Nathan Williams ; Randolph Holder ; unification 17 4533 The Classic Center / Running for CEO The county had a meeting in which... O'Looney describes the proposed architectural blueprint of the Classic Center, which she recollects was promptly nicknamed " ; the bomb factory " ; due to it's industrial-esque design. O'Looney discusses how the Classic Center design was supported by Jim Holland due to the possible financial burden of changing the design. O'Looney also describes the complexities of city council, and how she initially focused on the campaign process as opposed to the particulars of political positions. O'Looney describes the surprise people initially showed when she announced she was running for the CEO (Chief Elected Officer) position of Athens-Clarke County. campaign ; CEO (Chief Elected Officer) ; City Council ; Classic Center ; Jim Holland ; Kathy Hoard ; police ; Solid Waste 17 4938 Winterville debate / R.E.M's contribution to the campaign initiative O'Looney talks about her experience participating in debates during her campaign. She recalls how she used her experience in human services to advantage during the debates, as she was recognized for her ability to relate her arguments back to the people of Athens. O' Looney recollects an incident where Wesley Whithead, who she describes as old-fashoined mayor, publicly supported her after the debate held in Winterville, Georgia. O'Looney describes how support from the Athenian band, R.E.M, helped boost her popularity among potential voters, and additionally provided thirty percent of the campaign funding. campaign ; debate ; Junior League ; Micheal Stipe ; Prince Avenue Baptist Church ; R.E.M (band) ; Wesley Whitehead ; Winterville, Georgia 17 5426 Running against E.H Culpeper My first campaign manager was John Whitmore and he lived in Watkinsville. O'Looney continues with describing her experience in running for CEO. She particularity recalls running up against E.H Culpeper, whom she describes as the candidate proposed by the " ; old system" ; of Athens. O'Looney talks about the runoff election and recalls an incident where E.H Culpeper supposedly ran an aggressive, ad aimed toward O'Looney's campaign. She describes the disapproval expressed by the public in response to the nature of the ad, which she believes helped her gain public approval. campaign ; CEO (Chief Elected Officer) ; E.H Culpeper ; John Whitmore 17 5815 Early months in City Council So talk about the early months that it took to begin to make this new government work? O'Looney describes her commitment to citizen involvement ; a position which she believes she upheld in office. O'Looney recollects how she convinced Bob Snipes (the assistant manager of Athen's Public Works), to become the head of water distribution in the new Athens-Clarke County. O'Looney talks about Mariam Moore, who was the first African American woman to run for city council, and was additionally the founding member of the Athen's Neighborhood Health Clinic. O'Looney describes how facing gender prejudice in City Council often led to frustration as she would be commonly ignored and talked over during city council meetings. Athens Neighborhood Health Clinic ; Bob Snipes ; E.D Benson ; Ed Turner ; Ken Jordan ; Miriam Moore ; Nathan Williams 17 6331 Facing prejudice in City Council / Digitization in City Council How did you get them to do what you advocated for? O'Looney discusses how she dealt with sexism as the CEO. She describes her experience in working with John Barrow and talks about his dedication to the saving of an old Athens firehouse. O'Looney relates the process of the digitization of city council's information services, and recalls the reluctance of some city council members to the computerize process. digitization ; duplication ; Jim Holland ; John Barrow ; Marilyn Farmer ; National Park ; prejudice ; unification 17 6802 Addressing duplication / City faculty turnover The duplication was at the top... O'Looney talks about how the unification of Athens-Clarke County led to the duplication of city council positions. She recalls the early retirement plans offered to those with duplicated jobs, which she says had the drawback of losing people with important talents. O'Looney talks about the process of changing city hall's interior design, especially the layout of the mayor's office, which she did as an effort to make the building more inviting to the people of the city. O'Looney also addresses the eventual turnover of staff after unification, as some previous staff were " ; non compatible" ; with her ideologies and outlook towards the public. Calvin Bridges ; Caroline Reynolds ; duplication ; Dwayne Chambers ; Harry Sims ; Jack Lumpkin ; Jim Holland ; John Culpeper ; Michael Stipe ; Police Department ; Ronny Chandler ; unification 17 7280 Overview of first and second term John Culpeper, who was the finance director... O'Looney talks about how her extensive knowledge of the city council budget helped her to push through legislation. O'Looney describes the role of the chief manager position, who was in charge of all operations in personal. She also describes the mayoral position, as the mayor possesses the right to appoint the chief manager, attorney, and the auditor position- which she describes as the " ; eyes of the elected officials on the government." ; O'Looney talks about her support of implementing an auditor position (as a mean of ensuring government accountability), and relates the consequential backlash expressed by the city council members. O'Looney describes her first term (of four years), and second term- which was focused on the unification of Athens-Clarke County. auditor ; Chief Manager ; John Culpeper ; Mike Hamby ; Reservoir ; Unification 17 7715 Running against Mike Hamby I did not have opposition... O'Looney recalls running against Mike Hamby for the position of CEO (Cheif Elected Officer), she recalls an instant where Mike Hamby used a letter she had written for recommendation for a scholarship in a debate, as evidence for him being a good choice. O'Looney describes her disagreeing rebuttal during the debate, as she felt Mike Hamby would not be an appropriate fit for the position. O'Looney recalls being informed by Paul Hardy that she was the first head of a newly unified government to ever be re-elected in American History. CEO (Chief Elected Officer) ; Mike Hamby ; Paul Hardy ; re-election 17 Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 http://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL361AOHP-004.xml RBRL361AOHP-004.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Duration
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132 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Gwen O'Looney, Part 1, November 14, 2014
Identifier
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RBRL361AOHP-004
Format
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video
oral histories
Subject
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Local government
Race relations
Gender
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
Gwendolyn Ingram O’Looney grew up on St. Simon’s Island, graduated from the University of Georgia, and has worked in human service positions throughout her career. In this interview, she talks about her public service career in local politics, as a city council member and two-term mayor of Athens-Clarke County. She describes issues affecting Athens during the 1980s, as well as the race relations and women and minority representation at the time. O’Looney discusses the city-county unification process that created Athens-Clarke County, its ramifications, and her involvement in carrying out consolidation in her role as mayor.
Creator
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Gwen O'Looney
Betsy Bean
Date
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2014-11-14
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Coverage
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Athens, Georgia
Type
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moving image
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
72 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-030/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-030/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2021-06-24
Interview with Bennie Roberson, June 24, 2021
RBRL361AOHP-030
72 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Bennie Roberson
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_fs0k12c9&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_bo1pb8pj" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Bennie Roberson, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Consent to interview
Today is June the 25th, um, ten minutes after four, and we’re at the home of Bennie Roberson.
The time and place of the interview is established. Roberson consents to the interview.
Black history
74
Introduction / Early life
– I want you to introduce yourself, give me some details - important details...
Roberson introduces himself and recounts where he was born. He talks about the doctors who performed house calls and his perception of his parents as a kid. He stresses the importance of a “child’s life.”
1940s;1950s;Athens, Ga.;Bennie Shelton Roberson, Jr.;Bennie Shelton Roberson, Sr.;childhood development;Green & Green Law Firm;Marjorie Corneil Finley;Michael Jackson;Susie May building
254
Education
I went to start going to school at, uh, Union Institute. It was up Baxter.
Roberson describes his elementary and middle school experiences. He elaborates on the construction of Lyons School in particular and the environmental hazards of its location. Roberson also recounts the story of the only time he got in trouble at school.
1940s;1950s;1960s;Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle School;church;corporal punishment;environmental racism;generational changes;generational respect;Latin;Lyons Middle School;Michael Thurmond;Montag's Blue Horse;parent-teacher association (PTA);segregation;Union Baptist Institute
620
Black community in Athens
The whole atmosphere was - was different here in Athens
Roberson describes businesses on Hot Corner that he remembers from his childhood and how Black business has disappeared over the decades. He mentions how attitudes towards Black people in Athens depended on UGA football games.
1930s;1940s;1950s;barber shops;Black business and commerce;Broadacres Homes;Charlayne Hunter-Gault;drug stores and pharmacies;Hamilton Holmes;integration;Morton Theater;Pink Morton;racism;Rockspring Homes;segregation;terrorism;University of Georgia
788
Life in the country
We used to go to town, and on Saturdays we'd go to town to the grocery store...
Roberson talks about the self-sufficient nature of those who lived in the country and how significant it was to be able to feed yourself.
1940s;1950s;agriculture;chitlins;construction;dressmaking;economic stratification;housekeeping;independence;lye soap;rural living;Sears and Roebuck;segregation;sewing;Vietnam War
1070
Wealth in the Black community / Hot Corner
Now how about teaching and doctors, um… and people that had their own business?
Roberson names some of the more well-off Black residents, including Louis Barnett and Peanut Man, and how they kept a low profile. Roberson emphasizes the significance of owning land and elaborates on the difference between having money and wealth.
1950s;1960s;Atlanta, Ga.;Bill Gates;Brown's Barber Shop;Cadillac;cafes;capitalism;dentistry;drug stores and pharmacies;economic regression;economic stratification;film industry;integration;John Q. West;liquor stores;Mercedes-Benz;military service;Monroe, Ga.;racism;real estate;segregation;Vietnam War
1572
Black neighborhoods in Athens / The hustle
Now, uh, let’s talk about the different neighborhoods that were prominent then.
Roberson describes the solidarity communities and affordable housing units experienced in Athens and how the Black community having to rely on itself strengthened the community. He elaborates on the work ethic present, the necessity to often work more than one job, and how affordable housing units today have changed. He mentions the significance of ownership and recalls the Klan being scared off from The Bottom.
1940s;1950s;1960s;air-conditioning;beauticians;Bethel Midtown Village;Black Wall Street massacre;Broadacres Homes;cultural conditioning;East Athens;economic mobility;generational poverty;gentrification;Hot Corner;indoor plumbing;integration;Judaism;Ku Klux Klan;New Town;news;racial bias;Rockspring Homes;telephones;Tulsa race massacre;Tulsa race riot;urban renewal
2101
Community changes
And how did the, um, different communities interact within the schools then?
Roberson talks about the lack of genuine conflict between communities then, as intercommunity relations were strong and the biggest rivalries had to do with sports. He describes the influence certain jobs had, particularly within the church.
1920s;1930s;1940s;1950s;Boy Scouts of America;childhood development;churches;discipline;East Athens;generational changes;integrity;John Henry Dillard;morals;parenting;psychiatry;racial tension;The Oprah Winfrey Show;trust
2370
Coherence of family and community
Another thing about East Athens and the other Black communities - everyone was proud of their community.
Roberson discusses responsibilities within the family. He recounts how his mother allowed him to learn from his own mistakes and how quickly news traveled without telephones.
1940s;1950s;1960s;agriculture;Athens-Clarke County;childhood development;chores;coal burning stoves;dirt roads;electricity;farmwork;fireplaces;football;generational changes;Harry Sims;house work;Jeannette Sims;morals;pride;rabbit boxes
2687
Country luxuries
My family and another family down the street on, on Spring Valley Road that had a TV - we was the only ones that had a TV.
Roberson recalls how his family had a color TV, which involved placing a colored sheet over their black and white TV, and how happy he was when his family moved the bathroom inside.
1940s;1950s;1960s;castor oil;electricity;farming;ghost stories;indoor plumbing;laxatives;outhouses;rural living;television
2838
Athens past and present
Now I know we had said we’re getting close to that, uh, time, uh, that we had mentioned before we got started.
Roberson discusses the lack of solidarity the Black community experiences today, specifically the lack of communication between the younger and older generations. He emphasizes that, “it’s not what you do, it’s how you do.”
1940s;1950s;1960s;childhood development;contact theory;deacons;integration;interpersonal relationships;janitors;morals;parenting;respect;segregation
3105
Cultural conditioning
So why do you think - and I, I, I heard you talk about, uh, the different communities...
Roberson describes the effects of cultural conditioning and uses examples from his childhood. He discusses how the retelling of conflict can be changed by the victors.
1940s;1950s;1960s;American Indians;Colt pistols;courage;cowboys;justice;Native Americans;paradigm changes;segregation;Superman;The Adventures of Rin Tin Tin;truth;Winchester rifles
3319
Racism from fear
- I would be scared of Black people myself. Think about what we do.
Roberson speaks on how Black people made the best of what they were given. He explains that Black people were oppressed partly out of the fear that they would do better than white people.
1940s;1950s;1960s;art;B. B. King;carpentry;Civil War;competition;cooking;economic mobility;economic stratification;interior decorating;Madison, Ga.;Morgan County, Ga.;murals;music;prejudice;segregation;Sherman's March to the Sea;slavery;Thanksgiving;unskilled labor;whistling;William T. Sherman
3675
Changes and constants
Now, uh, you just, um, I’m going to switch gears and, and we’re going over the time said that you needed, but I wanted to ask you something that I had forgot.
Roberson elaborates upon the risks people took by holding more than one job, the presence of overbearing employers then and now, and how Black people are still fighting for their rights in 2021. He discusses changes in morals in the community.
1940s;1950s;1960s;2020s;bootlegging;Dodge trucks;economic stratification;employer oversight;exploitation;slavery;suffrage;University of Georgia;voting rights
3885
Purposeful exclusion of Black people
Now, I’m gone show you, uh, a comparison now: every time in the United States that something becomes legal, we’re kicked out of it.
Roberson describes how the law was designed to trap people and how the justice system seeks to exploit the vulnerabilities in the Black community for profit.
1860s;1870s;1880s;1890s;1940s;1950s;1960s;capitalism;Central State Hospital;chain gangs;Civil War;exploitation;institutionalized racism;liquor;marijuana;mental illness;militarization;Milledgeville, Ga.;plantations;prison labor;private prisons;privatization;psychiatry;Richard B. Nixon;Ronald Reagan;slavery;social work;veterans;Vietnam War
4125
Modern politics / conclusion
Now one last question. If the community was like it was from the time you described when you were growing up, do you think that even with those traps out there we could have avoided a lot of them?
Roberson highlights the emergence of a common enemy in politics today and wishes that the Black community would take the lead in their narrative. He admires the determination of the Black community to succeed despite poor conditions. The interview concludes.
Donald Trump;human nature;inequality;Judaism;perserverance;racism;slurs;verbal assault;warfare
oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Bennie Roberson, June 24, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Segregation
Civil rights
African American families
Discrimination
Economic development
Race relations
Rural-urban divide
African American business enterprises
United States--Civil rights
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Bennie Roberson
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2021-06-24
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-030
Description
An account of the resource
Bennie Roberson was born in Athens in 1947 where he attended Union Baptist Institute and, upon its completion, Lyons Middle School. In this interview, he recalls historically significant areas such as The Bottom, East Athens, and Hot Corner and describes how Black commerce has become less prominent. He discusses the self-sufficiency of living in the country, the importance of morals, and how community solidarity has disappeared since integration. Roberson emphasizes how the Black community is excluded from certain spheres even today and its relationship with the justice system.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
71 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-031/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-031/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-04-05
Interview with Thomas Griffith, April 5, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-031
71 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Thomas Griffith
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_3sx5np2h&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_b04w87el" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Thomas Griffith, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction / Black businesses in Athens
Okay, um, I’d like to thank you for allowing me to interview you, and before we get started, this is - the date is April the fifth 2022, I’m at the home of Mr. Thomas Griffith...
Griffith briefly talks about his family and goes on to describe places in Athens that were known to the Black community.
Athens High and Industrial;Athens, Ga.;Athens-Clarke County;Black business and enterprise;Brown's Barber Shop;Callaway Corner;funeral homes;Henry Sue Barnett-Griffith;Hot Corner;Morehouse College;restaurants;The Bottom;Wilson Styling Shop;Wilson's Soul Food;Zed Harris
278
Family
I’m gonna go back a little and then we’ll come back to this point here.
Griffith gives more information on his family, including that his father was killed in a car wreck when he was 7, and their education. He also talks about why his family moving to Clarke County and having to rent from white people.
1940s;1950s;Athens High and Industrial;Athens-Clarke County, Ga.;Hunnicutt;Madison County, Ga.;marriage;military;Morehouse College;parenting;single parents
464
Effects of segregation
Now you - I’m gonna take you back to where, uh - you, you had started talking about the businesses.
Griffith talks about segregation in schools, the mutual support between Black businesses, and the jobs Black people typically held while he was growing up. He explains that people from different classes lived side-by-side.
1940s;1950s;Athens High and Industrial;Athens High School;Burney-Harris High School;funeral homes;House of Blue Light;janitors;poultry industry;public transportation;sewing;University of Georgia;Westinghouse Electric Company
830
Black education during segregation
And going to school - were there buses?
Griffith elaborates on the differences between the white and Black schools, and he emphasizes the importance of him and his brothers finishing high school for his mother. He contrasts the architecture of the white school to that of the Black school.
1940s;1950s;Athens High and Industrial;basketball;football;inequality
990
Role of religion / motivation for success
How would you describe your life growing up compared to what - well, just how would you describe your life growing up?
Griffith describes his mother’s faith and her dedication to raising her children in a white man’s world. Griffith talks about some of the areas with affordable housing units, and he elaborates on his determination to succeed in order to provide a place for his mother.
1940s;1950s;Broadacres Homes;childhood development;Christianity;churches;education;generational respect;Hunnicutt;parenting;racism;religion;Rockspring Homes;segregation
1222
Black people in the workplace
Now I’ve talked with some people, uh, and in fact I was talking to a gentleman the other day…
Griffith describes unfair treatment in the workplace and recounts winning a lawsuit against Westinghouse on the grounds of discrimination. He describes the career paths of some of his brothers, why they relocated to Atlanta, and recounts getting fired from a waiting job near Decatur for being the spokesperson of the workers. With the attention he garnered in the workplace, he akins his firing and eventual re-hiring to the passing and resurrection of Jesus.
1960s;1970s;Athens, Ga.;Calloway v. Westinghouse Electric Corporation;Dekalb County, Ga.;equality;justice;law school;military service;Morehouse College;poultry industry;racism;real estate;segregation
2035
Reactions to Black success
In that setting… they realized they got caught doing you wrong.
Griffith notes the disbelief from the Black community that one of their own came out on top. He describes the union he served when he was fired from Westinghouse and, once re-hired, how he came to be chief steward. He talks about working with Klan members and their lack of confrontation with him, but contrasts his experience to that of his grandfather’s in Madison County.
1900s;1910s;1920s;1950s;1960s;1970s;Ku Klux Klan;labor unions;racism;segregation;terrorism;workers' unions
2505
Segregated upbringing
Now with that thought in mind, how did other whites treat whites who were… nice to Blacks?
Griffith describes how in Madison County some white families renting to Black families would make their tenants keep their children at home from school, even if there were no crops to be tended, so the school bus for the Black children was almost always empty. As a result, many Black people were undereducated and had to work low-paying jobs. He says that the Black children in Athens went to school because there was less of an agriculture focus and more factory jobs. Griffith describes downtown and how Black people navigated around segregation to get the services they needed.
1940s;1950s;1960s;businesses;Calloway Corner;Cress's;dentists;doctors;Hot Corner;Hunnicutt;Morton Theater;The Varsity;Tony's Restaurant;Wilson Styling Shop
2972
Integration in education
Now, um, you said you had two kids, right?
Griffith explains that his children, from the first grade onward, were in an integrated society and school supplies were no longer second-hand. He mentions a time that he was nearly expelled from school.
1950s;1970s;1980s;1990s;Cedar Shoals High School;Clarke Central High School;Farris Thomas Johnson;football;Homer T. Edwards, Jr.;Homer T. Edwards, Sr.;rivalries
3311
Workers' union
Something about me, I cannot stand to see anybody mistreated.
Griffith elaborates on his personal philosophy of equality. He explains that lots of people didn’t want the union, but that they didn’t understand the good it did for the workers and the protection it offered them. He discusses the system of discipline within the workplace and the time leading up to his retirement.
bureaucracy;capitalism;labor unions;Westinghouse;work ethic;workers' unions
3854
Freemasonry / The Bottom
I’m also a part of the brotherhood, you see that sign there, the Masons.
Griffith describes the characters of the Masons and their morals. He also talks about The Bottom and how it was a place of socialization, fraternization, and occasionally conflict.
Christianity;fraternities;James Brown;marijuana;morals;music;Prince Hall Freemasonry;religion;Rockspring Homes;The Staple Singers
oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Thomas Griffith, April 5, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Segregation
Discrimination
Race relations
Civil rights
Labor unions
Discrimination in employment--Law and legislation--United States--Cases
United States--Civil rights
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Thomas Griffith
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-04-05
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-031
Description
An account of the resource
Thomas Griffith was born in Madison County and moved with his family to Athens as a young teen. Throughout the interview, he stresses the importance of his mother’s Christian faith in instilling strong morals in him and his brothers and her determination to bring them up correctly after his father passed away. He compares the education he received during segregation to the education his children received after integration and recalls his active role in advocating for workers’ rights, particularly within the union. Griffith recounts a lawsuit the workers filed against Westinghouse Electric Corporation on the grounds of discrimination and their victory.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
67 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-035/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-035/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-04-19
Interview with Michael Middlebrooks, April 19, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-035
67 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Michael Middlebrooks
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_5dg7p54l&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_jrq8u5or" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Michael Middlebrooks, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Interview introduction
Ok, today I am here with Mr. Michael Middlebrooks. Did I pronounce your name correctly?
Middlebrooks is introduced and thanked for participating in the Oral History Project
57
Educational background
What I'd like for you to start off telling me about is a little bit about yourself. Where you were born, name, parents, family and then we'll get to uh other things a little later.
Middlebrooks lists the schools that he has attended throughout his life and mentions his work at Georgia Power. He also briefly recalls when schools integrated.
Athens Technical College;Burney-Harris High School;Busing;Cedar Shoals High School;H.T. Edwards;Hilsman Middle School;Integration;Lyons Middle School;Oconee Street School;Rezoning;Springfield Massachusetts;University of Georgia
359
Early education and integration
Um give me some events that happened from elementary school and then bring it on up.
Middlebrooks discusses his early struggles in elementary school and being classified as illiterate because he disliked reading out loud. He then details the disparities between resources provided to Black and integrated schools as well as the effects of rezoning on his school placement.
East Athens Elementary School;Hilsman Middle School;Integration
622
Racism after integration
So, was it kind of equal then or were you still one of the minorities?
Middlebrooks recalls his expulsion after not attending school because of the death of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. He mentions the protest that followed and his experiences with racism after King's death. He explains the significance of Clayton Street to the Athens civil rights movement.
Barnett Shoals Road;Civil rights activists;Ebenezer West Church;Hosea Williams;House of Blue Light;Kress's;Martin Luther King;Recreational sports;Rev. Joseph Lowery;Rev. Ralph Abernathy;Woolsworth
1040
Opportunities after high school
So now let's go to high school. Tell me some events that happened uh- good, bad, ugly, nice.
Middlebrooks explains how Black students were not encouraged to attend college after high school. He talks about employment opportunities for Black people at plants and their unwillingness to hire those attending school.
DuPont Water Solutions;Factories;Financial aid;General Time Corporation;HOPE;Military;Power station;Work study
1465
Living in the north/ Childhood games
Now- uh you mentioned at one point- well what made you come back to Athens after you went up North?
Middlebrooks describes his time living up north after his parents' separation. He explains the discrimination he faced because of his southern accent. He then recalls the games that he played as a child and the types of resources he used to play these games with. Middlebrooks discusses the pools that were available to him due to segregation.
Dupont lake;Integration;Lakeside;Legion pool;New Town;Oconee river;Springfield, Massachusetts;Stegman Hall;Tate Student Center;University of Georgia
1789
Black neighborhoods and Hot Corner
Went through high school- communities. From my understanding there were a lot of Black communities in Athens a while back that are no longer there. Yeah. Can you tell me about some of them?
Middlebrooks recalls which parts of Athens that were predominantly Black areas. He details his experiences going to Hot Corner and the Black-owned businesses that existed there at the time. He emphasizes the significance of the Morton Theatre within the Black community.
Black-owned businesses;Broadacres;Brooklyn road;Callaway Corner;East Athens;Finley Street;Hancock Corner;Homer Wilson;Milledge avenue;Morton Theatre;New Town;Parkview;Peter street;Public housing;Rocksprings;Segregation;Taxi services;Vine street;Wilson's Barber Shop
2335
Middlebrooks' family
That time period, what impact do you think that has on your life now?
Middlebrooks reflects on the impact that his father's work had on his views on higher education. He discusses how this has effected his attitude towards his children and shares their current careers. He then introduces his wife and describes the details of how they met.
Cedar Shoals High School;Chester Middlebrooks;Garbage collection;Lyons Middle School
2765
Jobs and Career
Now I wanted to know about your family, but you just touched on something. Tell me your different jobs that you had.
Middlebrooks describes all the various jobs that he had throughout his life. He talks about his first job working on his father's trash truck and the jobs he held throughout grade school. He also mentions that he had to work before and during college to pay for his tuition.
Benson's Bakery;DECA;DuPont;Firestone Tire Company;Geogia Power;Nathaniel Ball;Prime Time;Rent a kid;University of Georgia;Virginia Walker;Walker Park
3456
Attending the University of Georgia
We're going to go back just a little to you applying for UGA. In what year did you- I applied-I applied for UGA in Fall of '75- '74 yeah.Take that back
Middlebrooks explains the difficulties that he faced while attending the University of Georgia as a Black man who was not an athlete. He also emphasizes the Black social life that existed on campus.
black fraternities;fraternities;Jan Kemp
3628
The role of the church
Ok.. I'm going to go- We're going to go back in time almost to the first part of the interview. What part did the church play in the community?
Middlebrooks explains the significance of the church for getting together with family members and educating the youth. He describes the church as a place for organizing and holding meetings.
civil rights movement;High Shoals;Martin Luther King Jr.;Oconee county
3845
Closing remarks
Ok.. We- anything you want to add We're coming close to the end, if there's anything you want to add
Middlebrooks reflects on his life in Athens. He talks about his philosophy on parenting and gives life advice.
oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Michael Middlebrooks, April 19, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations
Segregation
School integration
Education
Race relations
United States--Civil rights
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Michael Middlebrooks
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-04-19
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-035
Description
An account of the resource
Michael Middlebrooks was born in Athens, Georgia in 1956 and lived there for the majority of his life. He attended the University of Georgia and later worked for Georgia Power for 40 years. In this interview, Middlebrooks recalls his upbringing, the jobs he had throughout his life, and the significance of Black communities and Hot Corner. He also discusses his experiences with integration and inequality in the education system and he emphasizes the role that his experiences with education has had on his outlook on life and the way that he has raised his children.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
96 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-036/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-036/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-04-21
Interview with Ken Dious, April 21, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-036
96 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Ken Dious
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_be9baygp&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_gkl7d9va" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Ken Dious, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Okay, today is April the twenty-first 2022.
The time and place of the interview is established, and Breeding briefly mentions what he hopes Dious will speak on.
Athens, Ga.;Black history;oral history
95
Memories of segregation
I grew up in the tail end of Jim Crow-ism.
Dious describes the parts of segregation that he remembers, including drinking from separate water fountains and riding in the back of the bus.
1950s;1955 World Series;1960s;agriculture;Brown v. Board of Education;integration;Jackie Robinson
252
Childhood memories
When I grew up, I never did a whole lot of work in particular in anybody’s home.
Dious talks about the jobs his parents held: his father owned his own construction company and his mother was a caretaker and nurse. He explains that he learned a lot of hands-on skills from his father.
1950s;1960s;contracting;domestic servants;Mathis Construction Company;nursing;segregation
440
Sports
- before that I want to go back, because I want people to know Ken Dious.
Dious talks about activities he participated in when he was a kid, his memories of Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier, and playing on the high school football team when he was in the eighth grade. He recounts his active participation in swimming, baseball, and basketball and the best piece of advice he ever received: “you put first things first.”
1950s;1960s;Athens Regional Hospital;Brooklyn Dodgers;childhood development;New York Yankees;segregation;Thomas N. Lay;Walt Frazier;Washington Redskins;yard work
1427
Education / integration
Let’s turn our attention to, uh, elementary school.
Dious elaborates on the schools available to Black kids and the steady integration process that started when he began high school. He describes how certain Black students were selected to move into the white school, but he turned down his offer because he was involved in sports at his school. He recalls that some white parents were so against integration that they took a case to the Supreme Court.
1950s;1960s;Fortson, Bentley and Griffith, PA;racism;segregation;West Broad Street School
1855
College
When I finished high school - when I was in high school I was president of the honors society, captain of the football team…
Dious explains that, after several sports-related injuries, he decided to go to college for academics and not sports. However, he still ended up playing basketball for a year, and he emphasizes that basketball, more than any other sport, can interfere with academics. He recounts his return to Athens and his admittance into UGA.
1960s;1970s;racism;Savannah State University;University of Georgia
2086
After undergrad
Once I finished undergrad, I got drafted into the army.
Dious discusses his distaste for the army at the time and the dichotomy of the types of soldiers: those who had been to Vietnam and those who were going. Upon his return to Athens, he enrolled in a masters program for mathematics, but lost interest once he neared its completion. He describes a few jobs he held afterwards until he decided to attend law school and how UGA was integrating its graduate programs with students from historically Black colleges (HBCs) instead of with Black students who had completed their undergraduate degrees UGA.
1960s;1970s;law school;medical discharge;military service;University of Georgia
2373
NAACP
So eventually they put me out.
Dious explains that, unlike others in his class, he didn’t receive assistance after graduation in finding a job. He reached out to the NAACP Legal Defense Fund in New York City and they granted him a job as a civil rights lawyer. He describes the two different NAACPs, practicing civil rights law across the South, and eventually coming back to Athens.
1960s;1970s;Brown v. Board of Education;civil rights litigation;Thurgood Marshall
2574
Practicing law in Athens
So what made you open your own law firm?
Dious explains the base the NAACP provided for him in terms of resources and education for starting his own law firm. After taking on Westinghouse Electric Corporation in an anti-discrimination case, businesses around Athens were less likely to implement segregational practices out of fear that they would be sued. He mentions several of the cases he took on.
1960s;1970s;Calloway v. Westinghouse Electric Corporation;civil rights litigation;desegregation;integration;law school;NAACP Legal Defense Fund;suffrage;voting rights
2780
Civil Rights in Athens
When did you get involved in the segregation issues?
Dious describes protesting and marching alongside Klan members, which was used as an intimidation tactic by the Klan to get Black people to stand down. He talks about significant rulings that came out of Athens, particularly United States v. Guest, which protects the constitutional right to travel. He mentions the irony of Guest owning a segregated cab company and his daughter owning an integrated cab company now.
1950s;1960s;1970s;Ebenezer Baptist Church West;Jim Hudson;Ku Klux Klan;Lemuel Penn;Martin Luther King, Jr.;racism;Rodney King;terrorism;The Varsity
3303
Downtown Athens
Now you were getting ready to say something about Hot Corner.
Dious recalls how downtown Athens functioned when he was a child. He mentions places of Black commerce, such as Hot Corner and Hancock Corridor, but also describes an area of interracial commerce. He shares seeing James Brown perform before he was a “big time celebrity.”
1950s;1960s;Ida Mae Hiram;leisure;Morton Theater;segregation
3616
Effects of integration
Now, I’m trying to think of the name of the street where iHop is
Dious describes that areas of activity for Black people became more deserted after segregation, particularly in the case of the Morton Theater. He emphasizes that the Black community was never able to integrate on their terms. White facilities and organizations were perceived to be better, so Black organizations began to fold as their membership declined. He mentions working at the country club in his youth and compares it to coming back as a lawyer to the country club where the Bar Association met.
1950s;1960s;American Legion;colorism;Disabled American Veterans;Hot Corner;Magnolia street;Pink Morton;segregation;Veterans of Foreign Wars
4039
Discrimination in UGA admissions
Being from Athens, some of the people - one of the guys my mother used to work for, I sued him.
Dious shares an experience in which he took on the University of Georgia on the behalf of a prospective student who was not admitted. The university’s response was that the prospective student’s SAT scores were not high enough to be admitted, but the student’s scores were higher than some white students’. He mentions administrative decisions that have impacted the amount of Black students at UGA.
1960s;1970s;Clarence Thomas;institutionalized racism;Wooten v. State
4403
Foundation of problems in the Black community today
I’ll be here as long as you want to be here, I think I got a lot of information - but there is one thing I really want you to talk a lot about.
Dious describes that many of the Black people who marched and protested for integration did not reap the benefits of their actions, but that future generations having a choice in their future was the goal. He discusses that there were Black schools outperforming white schools prior to integration, but once the schools were integrated, the Black families that could afford it relocated so their children were in predominantly white schools. He briefly mentions how this has affected affordable housing units as well.
1960s;1970s;2000s;2010s;2020s;<i>If We So Choose</i>;cultural conditioning;institutionalized racism;integrated living;University of Georgia;white fear
4814
Distractions in the Black community
I know with the paradigm, I think the paradigm has too much become - in the Black community - too much about sports.
Dious discusses the differences between community participation now and when he was growing up, and he believes that the Black community is too occupied by sports. Combined with more conservative judges in the courts, Dious believes that this has caused a devastating effect on the progress made by the Civil Rights movement. Dious emphasizes that the percentage of Black people who are scholars has dropped dramatically and that this should be remedied in order to begin to heal the community.
1960s;1970s;2000s;2010s;2020s;cultural conditioning;discrimination;integration;law;LeBron James;racism;University of Georgia
5347
Breakdown of the Black community
Well, I’ll, uh, let you have the last word and then we’ll consider it a wrap-up.
Dious elaborates upon the poorer performance of younger generations today compared to when he was growing up. It was, and still is, considered taboo for test scores in a predominantly Black school district to go up. He explains that the community, including the churches, has backed away from strengthening relations, so interracial relations have suffered.
cultural conditioning;economic stratification;gentrification;internalized racism;racism
oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ken Dious, April 21, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Civil rights
Lawyers
Race relations
United States--Civil rights
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ken Dious
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-04-21
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-036
Description
An account of the resource
Ken Dious was born and raised in Athens, Georgia, where he attended the University of Georgia and earned a law degree. After spending some time doing civil rights litigation with the NAACP, Dious returned to Athens to establish his own law firm. In this interview, Dious discusses his upbringing, his experience with segregation and consequently integration, and the evolution of the Black community. He elaborates upon influential cases that impacted civil rights, the practice of law today, and his observations of the Black community in Athens.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
78 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-040/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-040/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-04-26
Interview with Tommy Brown, April 26, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-040
78 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Tommy Brown
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_tkp32dby&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_v88r3dki" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Tommy Brown, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Today is April the twenty-sixth 2022.
Breeding briefly introduces himself and Brown, and he mentions topics he hopes Brown will talk about.
Athens-Clarke County, Ga.;Black history
100
Childhood
My name is Tommy David Brown, and I was born in 1940.
Brown talks about growing up in the country with sixteen siblings. He describes his parents as traditionally uneducated, but his father, a sharecropper, was very hardworking; he and his siblings often assisted him in the field, and Brown says that their parents wouldn’t allow them to go to school unless it was raining. He also mentions making brooms to sell for extra money.
1940s;1950s;1960s;Artie Brown;Emma Brown;rural living;Seagraves;segregation
495
Early work experience
But you know, I used to think that was back in the good ol’ days.
Brown explains the necessity of bringing home whatever wages were earned and giving them to their mother. He recalls working as a dishwasher and the wages he would make, as well as some of his memories of people like Charlayne Hunter-Gault, Hamilton Holmes, and Mary Blackwell while he was working at UGA. He briefly mentions other occupations he held.
1950s;1960s;Knoxville, Tn.;University of Georgia;University of Tennessee
778
Chicopee manufacturing / Lemuel Penn
That's why I started making what we call ‘good money’.
Brown recalls how he became entangled in solving the murder of Lemuel Penn by overhearing a confession while at work. He elaborates upon the process of having to repeatedly speak to authorities, keeping quiet about what he knew, and the eventual capture of the offenders.
1960s;Cecil Myers;drawing;George Hampton Turner;Herbert Guest;Joseph Howard Sims;Ku Klux Klan;Madison County, Ga.;racism;smuggling;terrorism
1345
Experiences with the Klan
So, that’s the way it go.
Brown discusses the familiarity he had with the Klan because of previous work experience with them, recalling a story involving being shot at in his new truck before the Klansmen realized it was him. Brown and Breeding mention motivations behind Klan attacks, particularly the propaganda stating that Black people were abusing their wives and families and shirking their civic duties. Brown mentions several influential figures in Athens who were Klansmen.
1960s;Carey McCraig;Chevrolet;CNI Newspapers;Ed Brown;Ed Skinner;Grand Dragon;Guest's Garage;Joseph Howard Sims;Ku Klux Klan;racism;terrorism;Tony's Restaurant
2357
Business in Athens
Let’s go in a different direction right now.
Brown describes the layout of downtown Athens when he was younger, mentioning various businesses and individuals that he remembers. He discusses Hot Corner, Calloway Corner, Hancock Corridor, and The Bottom, among others. He also retells a story he was told about a Black man called Chewing Gum who had owned a lot of land in Athens, illustrating how Black people went from owning a large amount of land in Athens to owning very little.
1940s;1950s;Brown's Barber Shop;Brown's Cafe;Calloway building;Dexter Weaver;Hayme's Cafe;Ida Mae Hiram;Joseph Gaines;Morton Theater;Reese Street Gym;Sheats Barber and Beauty Shop;Smith Furniture Company;The Manhattan Cafe;urban renewal;Weaver D;Zed Harris
3387
Workplace tensions
Now, I understand where The Varsity was, a lot of protests went on.
Brown explains how he got a job as the curb manager at The Varsity and why he left. He talks about how he formed a partnership with a white man at the credit union near the Chicopee mill: Brown would buy and refurbish older cars, and his partner would act as the salesman. He gives details as to how this ultimately created agitation in the workplace once it came to light.
1960s;Doc Holmes;economic mobility;Heyward Allen Toyota;John "Jack" Jackson;Mustang;racism
4010
Reputation
Now I’m gonna switch gears again.
Brown shares that he has several plaques from different organizations of the community and even some from the city, as he was Man of the Year more than once. He discusses the respect that he has garnered in the community. He says that everyone who knows him, police included, address him as “Mister.”
Athens-Clarke County, Ga.;community relations;generational respect
4144
Lessons to pass on
Now, I’ll tell you what we’re gonna do.
Brown gives advice to the youth of today, especially Black men: invest so you can move up in the world and have something to pass on to your family. He discusses the knowledge he passed on to his children and his belief that an individual makes money and not the other way around.
childhood development;entrepreneurship
4541
Marriage and children
Okay, Mr. Brown, could you tell me about your family, your kids?
Brown relates that he was married when he was twenty-one, and he and his wife had four children: three girls and one boy. He mentions that his wife passed around twenty years ago, saying he is happy that she got to see their children grow into adulthood. One of his daughters has her own business in Lawrenceville.
Dexter Brown;family;Shalon Brown;Stacey Brown;Tammy Brown
oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Tommy Brown, April 26, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American business enterprises
Business enterprises
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Tommy Brown
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-04-26
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-040
Description
An account of the resource
Tommy Brown was born in Athens in 1940 to a family of seventeen children. Growing up as a sharecropper, he learned much about self-sufficiency and entrepreneurship. In this interview, Brown shares his experiences with the Ku Klux Klan, workplace tensions, and his role in the solving of the murder of Lemuel Penn. He spent much of his life employed at the Chicopee Mill, but he was always doing something secondary to make extra money. Brown also goes into great detail describing the layout of the Athens he grew up with, highlighting businesses and individuals he remembers.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
91 minutes
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-058/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-058/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-06-22
Interview with LaKeisha Gantt, June 22, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-058
91 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
LaKeisha Gantt
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_0ebv2cm3&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_9khwqk98" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="LaKeisha Gantt, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
College
Okay, we’re going to continue…
Gantt shares that she decided to go to college relatively late and applied to several universities. At Mercer, she had a difficult time adjusting to the course material and the environment. After being put on academic probation, Gantt found a second wind during her junior year.
Mercer University;psychology
609
Graduation
Yeah, graduation for me was sort of surreal…
Gantt shares that she was a first-generation college graduate. She worked with Advantage for a year after graduation in case management while sleeping on her grandmother’s couch and applying to graduate schools.
Advantage Behavioral Health Systems;behavioral disorders
850
Graduate school / early career
So, I got married pretty early...
Gantt describes how graduate school made her realize that she wanted to help communities of color and people who had been left behind. She talks about how she started her first facility building, which she designed to feel like a home, and her journey to becoming a resource to her community.
behavioral disorders;community relations;impoverished populations;mental health;University of Georgia
1183
Ph.D
So in 2003 I graduated with my masters from that community counseling program at UGA.
Gantt elaborates on her position working as a career counselor to at-risk students and going back to UGA for her Ph.D in psychology. She talks about several jobs she performed in the school district while she was completing her degree and working on her dissertation as well as the services she performed for several universities while looking for a professorship.
behavioral disorders;Children's Tree House;Clarke Central;Clayton State University;Counseling and Psychiatric Services;Georgia Institute of Technology;Piedmont University;University of Georgia
1702
Piedmont University
Now, while at Piedmont, I think that's when I met you.
Gantt discusses working with first-generation and non-traditional students while teaching at Piedmont as an Assistant Professor. Breeding and Gantt discuss their common history dealing with the Board of Education and how Gantt decided to run for President, even with being a professor and mother. She describes the lack of connection and communication that existed within education as well as educators and the negative effect it had on students.
academic advising;community relations;local government
2117
Running for the Board
I became convicted.
Gantt explains that it took months for her to formally run for the Board of Education. She talks about the various obstacles she encountered that discouraged her and how she overcame them through her drive to succeed. Breeding gives context to the time of the election. After winning, Gantt describes adjusting to the role and the individuals that she was now around.
community relations;grassroot campaigns;local elections;local government
2828
Lessons from experience in office
I don't know what all of the lessons are.
Gantt elaborates on the importance of unifying communities, but that this cannot be done at the expense of the truth. She describes the history of Athens and white supremacy and how this legacy has impacted the way she works. She says that efficiency cannot be based on good graces. She believes that leaders, especially leaders of leaders, must be able to either govern outside of their feelings or govern effectively with them.
childhood development;generational relations;local government;mentoring;respect;self-discipline
3706
Community relations / TED Talk
Before you do that, can I say something?
Gantt talks about her interactions with the community and how race influenced those interactions. She discusses how she discovered she was nominated to do a TED talk and the experiences she drew upon in giving her talk. She shares that she doesn’t think racism is a matter of political party.
cultural conditioning;generational relations;institutionalized racism;January 6th, 2021;mentoring;performative activism;race relations;stereotypes
https://www.ted.com/talks/lakeisha_gantt_look_inward_to_challenge_your_racial_bias
Gantt's TED Talk
4399
Introspection and extrospection
-- you wrote, "Can it be possible for the slavemaster to have compassion?"
Breeding brings up an interaction he and Gantt had on social media. Gantt describes her feelings on the specific perceptions and behaviors of the Black community.
code switching;cultural conditioning;institutionalized racism
4736
Childhood / grade school
I am pretty sure I got everything, but part of what I think I might have missed…
Breeding goes through his notes on the earlier parts of the interview on Gantt’s upbringing, which was not recorded.
Beta Club;Brenda Campbell;Burney-Harris Middle School;cheerleading;Clarke Central High School;Clarke Central Middle School;Jobs for Georgia Graduates;Joe Cox;Oglethorpe Elementary School
4967
Family
Now the only thing we could have possibly missed, I think, was…
Gantt talks about the impact raising Black children has had on her urgency to cause change in Athens. She has four children, two boys and two girls. She discusses how she met her husband.
Chandler Gantt;Ian Gantt;Julius Gantt;Mercer University;motherhood;Zailey Gantt;Zuri Gabriella Gantt
5284
Advice to younger women / conclusion
Okay, the last thing I have to say to you: you’re going to look into a mirror…
Gantt pushes the younger generation of women to follow their convictions, whatever they may be.
generational advice;perserverance
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with LaKeisha Gantt, June 22, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
African American teachers
Women teachers
College teachers
Local government
Race relations
Education
Discrimination
Community activists
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
LaKeisha Gantt
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-06-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-058
Description
An account of the resource
LaKeisha Gantt was born in Athens in 1978, where she attended elementary through high school. In her undergraduate years, Gantt knew that she wanted to help people, but wasn’t sure how; through graduate school and upon completing her Ph.D in psychology, she set out to help young communities of color. In this interview, Gantt talks about her struggles in college, her conviction to be a resource for her community, and her experience being on the Board of Education as a Black woman.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
109 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-059/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-059/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-06-22
Interview with Barnard Sims, June 22, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-059
109 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Barnard Sims
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_gghh6jdy&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_ho3r2ws4" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Barnard Sims, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
I'm ready when you ready.
Breeding thanks Sims for his time and mentions what he hopes Sims will talk about during the interview.
Athens Black history
100
Family and society
Alright, my name is Barnard Sims.
Sims talks about his parents, being born to a family of four, and the insulation from racism that he experienced growing up. Once he began to interact with others outside of the family unit and as he got older, he started to “filter through a society… that wasn’t designed” for people who looked like him.
Barney Roscoe Sims;Barrow County, Ga.;football;Ida Sims;institutionalized racism;Malcom X;prejudice;segregation
408
School
I started to notice differences.
Sims explains that there were different expectations for students depending on their race; students of color were not given the same encouragement and support as the white students. He recounts playing as pitcher in school and his fastballs, but in his last year playing, a new coach was put into place who wanted Sims to spend practice time doing mundane tasks. As an adult, he recognizes that the coach wanted Sims to know his “rightful place” as a Black person, even as a child.
baseball;educational inequality;football;microaggressions;NAACP;race relations;Randall Cunningham
760
Socialized defeat
I stopped playing after recreation.
Sims elaborates upon how Black students and workers are discriminated against, damaging their morale and willingness to develop professionally. He explains that the education system focused only on white history and narratives that he couldn’t relate to, as well as the system’s singular approach to educating their students. He shares that once he got to Athens Tech, a counselor managed to connect with him and efficiently demand better of him, inspiring Sims to do better for himself.
Athens Technical College;cultural conditioning;George Washington;Harry Washington;institutionalized racism;Malcom X;microaggressions;Organized Black Students Encouraging Unity and Excellence;prejudice;race relations;slavery;terrorism
1330
Addressing racism
Growing up, they used to, you know, dark-skinned Black men, they used to call them ‘bubba’.
Sims explains that there are opportunities to engage with racism and that he thinks there are rational people who can be made to see their errors. He discusses irrational logic and the logic behind the insurrection on January 6, 2021 and the Blue Lives Matter movement.
January 6th, 2021;microaggressions;race relations;racism
1500
Educational and work opportunities
You were saying you were at Athens Tech.
Sims emphasizes that he had to re-frame his perception of school in order to commit himself to it. He talks about how the same counselor who originally encouraged him convinced him to go back to Athens Tech once Sims finished his cosmetology program in order to get his associate’s. Because of this, Sims ended up filling in for a professor for two years while she was ill, simultaneously running his own business.
Athens Technical College;integration;segregation;soft skills
1663
Double standards
<i>The Southern Awakening</i>, I felt, is necessary...
Sims compares the awakening brought about by Trump to a different kind of awakening that needs to happen within the Black community. He elaborates upon historical figures such as Nat Turner who have paved the way for Black rebellion and liberation. He uses the obstacles thrown at Obama during his presidency to prove his “American-ness” compared to the easily accepted mediocrity of Trump to illustrate how there are impediments to Black success even today.
Athens Anti-Discrimination Movement;Barack Obama;Donald Trump;Joe Biden;Michelle Obama;racism;terrorism;Three-Fifths Compromise;white nationalism;white supremacy
2214
Barney Sims
My father was a man's man.
Sims describes the manner of his father, that he was a man of his word and that he always meant what he said. He says that his father taught him to do what is expected of you and then a little more. Sims explains that his father never saw the success of others as a threat to his own success but as a gain for the community as a whole.
childhood development;collective economics;work ethic
2387
Perspectives of success
There's another thing that you wrote here.
Sims stresses the importance of learning from mistakes and the reality that failure will happen, but that holding oneself to another’s standard is not sustainable. He says that there are pressures to conform to certain standards and perform certain tasks, but the originality and genuine nature of your passions will define your own success.
authenticity;childhood development;community relations;community support;generational advice
2763
Ministry and the Black community
I don't mind getting in trouble on this one.
Sims describes the ministry as being “asleep at the wheel” because of the off-hand approach it has taken towards community development. He says that there is a literacy crisis in the Black community and that the church has stood idly by while community programs are being supported by unorthodox and unexpected crowds. He elaborates upon the perceived differences between races and how that influences their education.
Barrow County, Ga.;Chess and Community;churches;cultural conditioning;educational inequality;institutionalized racism;internalized racism;Leap for Literacy;Stan Tucker
3479
Prejudice in sport
To your point, did you know they just did, like a year ago, they had to start paying Black athletes…
Sims discusses the different standards Black and white athletes are held to when it comes to evaluating brain damage and physical injuries.
chronic traumatic encephalopathy;medical racism
3735
Self-doubt
Now I want that last part, that's what I'm focusing on.
Sims uses his experience from working in construction to illustrate how it assisted him in understanding academic material in a nontraditional way, but that he minimized his own talent to keep himself unnoticed. He notes that socialized behavior has stuck with the Black community, such as sitting towards the back of facilities, but that progression is possible. He says that the community needs to keep pushing if they want that progress to be made and it cannot continue to shrink itself.
cultural conditioning;institutionalized racism;internalized racism;Lao Tzu
4395
Prayer vs. action
Yes, yes, yes, because we had been told so many times “pray about it, pray about it, pray about it”.
Sims emphasizes that prayer is a good start for change, but it cannot be the finish line. Activists should be more hands-on and focused on bringing about results for Black people.
churches;Edward DuBose;NAACP;police brutality
4683
Postulates
A postulate, just in simple terms, is like an educated guess.
Sims gives context to some of the postulates that he has written. He elaborates on what he wants for the South, in place of it being “an eyesore”. He explains the disservice that has been done to people of color for generations through unpaid and uncompensated labor, and he illustrates how he tries to go above and beyond to support businesses run by people of color.
collective economics;community relations;cultural conditioning;institutionalized racism;race relations;reparations;segregation;slavery;spirituality
5570
Mentors
Tell me about some of your mentors.
Sims emphasizes the impact various individuals had on him within his lifetime, whether they be relatives or otherwise. He shares the experiences of his uncle, who fought in the Korean War and was a high-ranking military official, but once he returned to the United States, he couldn't retain his social status.
family;institutionalized racism;John Smith;military service;NAACP
5959
Voting repression
I am aware, from listening to social media...
Sims relates how the obstacles people of color have to overcome in order to participate in their own government has not changed over time. He emphasizes that the barriers that are put in place to discourage people of color from voting should be evidence enough that they should vote because those votes must have power.
elections;federal government;John Lewis;local government;politics
6237
Conclusion
First I’m going to ask , is there anything we didn’t cover that needs to go on this first version…
Sims gives advice to his younger self, which is the last thing his father told him: “Get up, boy.” He emphasizes that the world we live in is not designed for Black people and that it is necessary to keep pushing against that sentiment, even though it’s hard, because the current generation is what their ancestors dreamed about.
Charlayne Hunter-Gault;generational advice;institutionalized racism
oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Barnard Sims, June 22, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American authors
Authors and publishers
Discrimination
Local government
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Barnard Sims
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-06-22
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-059
Description
An account of the resource
Barnard Sims was born in Barrow County to a family of four. Once he started school, he realized that Black people were systematically treated differently than white people and felt that he lacked understanding of Black history. In this interview, Sims shares his journey of re-education, the importance of Black participation in government, and his authorship of <i>The Southern Awakening: A Black Man’s Guide to Liberating the Rural South</i>.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
77 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-064-01/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-064-01/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-07-11
Interview with Ethel H. Johnson, Interview 1, July 11, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-064-01
79 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Ethel H. Johnson
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_uiplo3hn&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_8jkqd8et" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Ethel H. Johnson, Part One, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Okay, my name is William Breeding and today is July 12th, 2022.
Breeding briefly introduces Ethel Johnson and her daughter, Jessica, who is also present for the interview. Breeding explains the basics of the project, the purpose for the interview, and various forms the Johnsons will need to fill out.
Athens Black history;Jessica A. Johnson
471
School years
... then go from there to your earliest memories.
Johnson recalls the spiritual aspect of attending West Broad as a child, as the Bible was regularly incorporated. She summarizes her grade school experiences and remembers receiving awards for memorizing Bible verses.
Athens High and Industrial;Athens Regional Hospital;Christianity;Jessie Seethens Hardeman;Reese Street Elementary School;Walter Hardeman;West Broad Elementary School
970
West Broad Elementary School
Give me a full schedule of, let’s say, one day…
Johnson shares memories of a play that she was in when she was in elementary school and the subjects she learned. As a child, Johnson lived a few streets away from her school and would walk there every day. She elaborates on the current state of the building and the city administration’s view of it.
musical instruments;theater
1540
Reese Street School
Alright, a typical day at Reese Street...
Johnson talks about the subjects that she was taught and says that she was a talker in school. She discusses fundraisers that the school would hold and the treats the students would get if it was successful. She shares that, as a single child, she loved going to school and being with other people her age.
community relations;merry-go-rounds
1783
Athens High and Industrial
Alright, well, a typical day when I made it to high school…
Johnson became serious about her studies and graduated at the top of her class. She shares that her creativity caused her to love writing and that the enthusiasm of her teacher made her determined to succeed.
Ebenezer Baptist Church West;Martha Swinton;teacher-student relations
2034
After high school
Yes, I was...I had mixed emotions.
Johnson describes feeling nervous and excited to graduate high school. She shares details from a position a teacher nominated her for at the Y. Throughout her time in grade school, Johnson recalls she was never in an integrated class.
race relations;segregation;YMCA;Young Men's Christian Association
2558
Childhood games
We played jump rope, hopscotch…
Johnson explains the rules of some of the games she played when she was a child in her neighborhood. She describes how the adults would keep watch from their various streets in order to make sure that everyone was behaving and being safe. Johnson and Breeding relate to the saying, “It takes a village to raise a child.”
community relations;family relations
3028
College
Alright, I went to Albany State College, which is now Albany State University.
Johnson talks about working her freshman, sophomore, and junior years of college in order to help her mother out with tuition costs. Her senior year, however, she won Miss Albany State College and received a scholarship. She describes the relationship she had with her senior year roommate and the plans they made for their future daughters.
Alpha Kappa Alpha;business education;drama;North Carolina Central University
3582
Student teaching
Well, when it was time for student teaching, it was fun…
Johnson describes the rough crowd of students at Monroe High School, where she had to be coaxed by the principal to go inside the building. She says that the leader of the gang of high school boys liked her, so she never had any trouble. She shares that the teachers were instructed to strike back if the students hit them, otherwise they would lose control of the situation.
Albany, Ga.;gang activity;marching band;music;National Honors Society
4284
After graduate school / conclusion
I got married in 1964.
Johnson discusses why she chose to attend North Carolina Central University for her graduate studies. She shares memories from her wedding day, including what she remembers about the children participating as the ring bearer and flower girl. She says that her ex-husband was Catholic, so they had a Catholic wedding. Breeding discusses doing a second interview.
Catholicism
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Ethel H. Johnson, Part 1, July 11, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
African American teachers
Education
High school teachers
Race relations
Religion
Women teachers
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Ethel H. Johnson
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-07-11
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-064-01
Description
An account of the resource
Ethel Johnson was born in Athens in 1940, where she grew up and attended West Broad, Reese Street, and Athens Industrial and High School. In this interview, Johnson relates her experiences from grade school to graduate school. She talks about her childhood, influential teachers, and her time as a student teacher in Albany. Johnson also shares memories of her roommate in college and her wedding day.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
77 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-065/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview</a><br /></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-065/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
a
5.4
2022-07-13
Interview with Jessica Johnson, July 13, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-065
77 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Jessica Johnson
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_vv0iifjc&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_7ul66it2" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Jessica Johnson, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
We’ll get started, and I’m going to have to go back…
Breeding briefly introduces Johnson.
Black history
85
Childhood
Well, my mother is Ethel H. Johnson...
Johnson shares her early educational experiences in the home and at school. Johnson loved reading, which helped her develop exemplary language arts skills, and was very social in her youth.
1970s;<i> The Great Brain </i>;Alps Road Elementary School;Athens General Hospital;Francis McBride;Wesley Johnson, Jr.
452
Middle school
Now let's travel to Burney-Harris.
Johnson explains that the demographics within Burney-Harris Middle School were more diverse than what she had experienced at Alps Elementary, as there were more students and teachers of color. In 8th grade, Johnson decided to learn to play the clarinet; because of her prior experience with the piano, she learned quickly enough to try out successfully for marching band in 9th grade.
1970s;1980s;Angela Horton;Christianity;Jimmy Carter;musical instruments;Ronald Reagan
844
High school / band
Okay, so high school - Clarke Central.
Johnson talks about her academics, sharing that she was an honors student and recognitions that she has received from various scholarly organizations. She describes her time in band, the competitions they attended, and winning the state championship in 1985.
1980s;band camp;Beta Club;Clarke Central High School;football;National Honors Society
1318
Race relations in and out of school / pageantry
But outside of high school, our social lives were different.
Johnson explains the relationships she had with her white classmates within school and how they differed once they were outside of school. She also recalls the pageants in which she participated during her senior year of high school.
1980s;churches;cotillion;cultural conditioning;implicit segregation;racism;social segregation
1562
College experiences
...and then, being offered a full scholarship to attend North Carolina Central University...
Johnson studied English at NCCU since the university did not have a communications department at the time. She says that before she could graduate, she had to take a literature and a grammar exam, which she complained about at the time, but she shares how these examinations ultimately helped her. She was in band all four years at NCCU and was part of a sorority.
1980s;Alpha Kappa Alpha;HBCU;media journalism;sports facilities
1989
Graduate and post-graduate education
When I got to Ohio State, I got a fellowship.
Johnson began graduate school at Ohio State to prepare herself to be a sports commentator. One of her professors was so impressed with a paper that Johnson wrote, that they asked if she was interested in pursuing a Ph.D. At the time, Ohio State didn’t offer a sports sociology program, so she completed her doctoral degree in education, focused on cultural studies and sports.
1990s;basketball;Black athletes;Ohio State University
2389
Mr. Boswick
My AP American History teacher, his name was Mr. Boswick…
Johnson recalls a high school teacher, Mr. Boswick, who would pass grades out from the highest to the lowest. She shares experiences that students had with him and the relationship he had with students.
1980s;chocolate eclairs;history
2527
Present / authorship
Presently, I’m an English lecturer at Ohio State’s Lima campus.
Johnson describes the classes that she teaches. She teaches composition, pop culture, sports history, and TV diversity classes. She explains how she incorporates current events into her curriculum to get the students to connect with the material. Johnson also discusses her book about Wilburn H. Weddington, Sr, who became the first Black doctor from Paulding County.
<i> Salt of the Earth: Georgia Boy </i>;John Lewis;Ohio State University
3131
Publications / reception
Well, when I first started writing, it was primarily focused on sports and pop culture.
Johnson recounts her journey in writing for various outlets and how she found her voice. She explains how she came to add her faith into her writing, producing social justice articles that are spiritually sensitive. She shares criticism that she has received in her career, explaining that criticism has become rare in recent years.
<i> Columbus Dispatch </i>;<i> Creators Syndicate </i>;Christianity;cultural conditioniing;identity politics;newspapers;race relations
3872
Influence of the church
I grew up in Ebenezer Baptist Church West, and under two pastors.
Johnson shares her approach in the classroom: she doesn’t require her students to write on topics that she necessarily agrees with, but she lives her life in a way that honors God in the hopes that her students will become inspired by that.
1970s;1980s;Christianity
4173
Addressing racism in the classroom
Yes, actually one of my friends sent me an email, and that’s how I got the idea for that story.
Johnson says that her strategy of discussing racism is to allow students and those she is teaching to come to their own conclusions by being provided with the facts.
critical race theory;The Lifelong Learning Institute
4415
Advice / conclusion
No, I think you’ve pretty much covered everything.
Johnson gives advice to the younger Black generation: she instructs them to obey and honor their parents. Johnson talks about her first time speaking in public at ten-years-old, explaining that future generations should also seek to put God first in their lives.
Christianity;generational relations
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jessica Johnson, July 13, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
African American teachers
Women teachers
African American authors
Authors and publishers
College teachers
Education
Journalism
Religion
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jessica Johnson
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-07-13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-065
Description
An account of the resource
Jessica Johnson was born in Athens in 1969, where she attended Alps Road Elementary School, Burney-Harris Middle School, and Clarke Central High School. Johnson earned her undergraduate degree from North Carolina Central University and her graduate degrees from Ohio State University, where she now teaches. In this interview, Johnson discusses race relations growing up in Athens, the importance of the church in her life, how she navigates racism working in academia, and her journey in being an author of a book and more than a few newspaper columns.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Remote interview
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
67 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-068/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-08-23
Interview with Valdon Daniels, August 23, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-068
67 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Valdon Daniels
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_ejpvs1et&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_4lc0kif2" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Valdon Daniels, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Okay, today is August the 23rd, 2022…
Breeding reflects on his personal connection with Daniels from Breeding’s childhood education.
Athens Black history;educators
219
Childhood
I grew up in Broadacres.
Daniels shares some background information on his parents, as well as his experiences walking to school with his older siblings. He talks about the influential faculty and staff that had buildings and other schools named after them.
Athens High and Industrial;Broadacres Homes;community relations;Desiree Daniels;public housing;Reese Street;T.G. Daniels;West Broad Street Elementary School
531
Middle school / integration
And we left there, and we had eighth grade at Burney-Harris High School.
Daniels emphasizes the incredible Black teachers that were active during his youth, lamenting that many of them were displaced after integration. He says that the solution to the education problem within the Black community was not through the quality of the buildings or the books, but that it was in the quality of the educators.
Athens High and Industrial;Boy of the Year;community relations;mathematics;race relations;segregation
720
College / early career
Left Burney-Harris High School and matriculated to Paine College on a math scholarship.
Daniels recounts his time in college, where he met his wife, and returning to his mother’s hometown of Oglethorpe County, where he and his wife taught for several years. During this time, integration took place in public schools, and Daniels witnessed many Black staff lose their positions.
HBCU;mathematics;Oglethorpe County;Shirley Daniels;social studies
901
Experiences in Oglethorpe
Couple of stories I’m gonna tell about Oglethorpe and then I’ll keep moving on.
Daniels shares a conflict he had with the mailman over the location of their mailbox. He describes the difficulty he and his wife had to get her maternity leave and compares it to a white family who was adopting and easily able to acquire maternity leave. This led to a court case that impacted the social understanding of being Black within the community.
Abraham Lincoln Avenue;Barbara Shannon;Civil War;Georgia Association of Educators;landowning;race relations;slavery
1635
Middle school career / racism in school
But I moved to, uh, Clarke Central.
Daniels discusses his positions and involvement at Clarke Central and Cedar Shoals school systems. He shares that he left Clarke Central after the administration decided to promote a less experienced white woman ahead of him. He describes being hired by Burney-Harris-Lyons and being able to have agency within the administration and how he was able to assist in lowering teen pregnancy through extracurricular programs and social events. He elaborates on why there weren’t many Black kids in the gifted programs at school.
Cedar Shoals Middle School;community relations;CRCT;EOC;Hilsman Middle School;Jim Willis;race relations;teen pregnancy prevention
2526
The students in the middle
Shirley talked me into going over to Hilsman.
Daniels says that it’s the students in the middle, that do not perform exceptionally well or poorly, that are the ones left behind most often. At Hilsman, Daniels wanted to teach those he felt were being left behind. For the four years he and his wife were at Hilsman, he says that his students passed the CRCT (Criterion-Referenced Competency Tests) while other schools did not perform as well.
CRCT;Saturday Academy
2795
Community development
From there, I retired.
Daniels relates how the facility for the Boys and Girls Club on the Westside of Athens became established. He elaborates on how the mixed-income Columbia Brookside neighborhood reminds him of the atmosphere growing up in Broadacres. He also discusses how the Eastside of Athens got its own library.
Athens Housing Authority;Bethel Homes;Columbia Brookside Classic Residences;community relations;libraries;low-income communities
3352
Advice for future generations
If the Mr. Daniels today looked in the mirror...
Daniels urges the younger generations to believe in themselves and to study every day. He emphasizes that all children are gifted and that parents need to make sure that their children’s talents are appreciated and developed.
family relations;generational advice;generational relations;mathematics
3570
Middle school graduations
I said to the eighth-grade class, ‘Listen, a lot of people don’t believe in you.'
Daniels elaborates on the reasoning behind holding graduation ceremonies for his eighth-graders. Daniels and Breeding discuss the value of being educators and how that value is not always expressed financially.
cultural conditioning
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Valdon Daniels, August 23, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American teachers
Education
Discrimination
Public housing
Community activists
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Valdon Daniels
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-08-23
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-068
Description
An account of the resource
Valdon Daniels was raised in Broadacres Homes and attended West Broad Elementary School, to which he walked every day with his older siblings. Daniels loved math, and spent much of his adult career teaching mathematics in elementary school. In this interview, Daniels talks about his experiences with integration in the public school system, racism in education, and how he has assisted the community in its development through support of extracurriculars and youth programs, even after retirement.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
96 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-070/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-10-07
Interview with Venus Jarrell, October 7, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-070
96 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Venus Jarrell
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_f6mgniz3&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_aulpabnx" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Venus Jarrell, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Okay, today is October the 7th, 2022…
Breeding briefly introduces Jarrell and describes how the interview will proceed.
Athens Black history
91
Childhood
My name is Venus Joseph Jarrell.
Jarrell recounts how his parents would make him work on the property with the animals in order to teach him the value of hard work. He talks about how his grandmother would watch him and his cousins while they were young instead of going to daycare.
agriculture;Columbus Washington;family relations;George Daniels;Hosie Daniels Jarrell;rural living;Sadie Daniels;Venus Alvin Jarrell
459
School / extracurriculars
Now where did you go to elementary school?
Jarrell mentions the schools he attended, sharing that he joined the band in elementary school playing the clarinet. He discusses his experiences traveling to band competitions as well as to compete for track. He emphasizes the spirit and energy that was found in their marching band.
4-H Club;Athens High and Industrial;Fort Valley State University;Herman Sheats;Lyons Junior High;segregation;Walter Allen, Sr.;West Broad Elementary School
1182
College band
Now I went to Mississippi Valley –
Jarrell shares that his college band was the first all-Black band to perform at the Rose Bowl in 1965. He talks about the band’s perception of other universities’ marching bands, and he stresses that Mississippi Valley had the third best band in the nation. Jarrell shows Breeding some of the art he has collected over the years in relation to his college.
cultural conditioning;Mississippi Valley State University;segregation
1772
Army experience
I dropped out of Mississippi Valley.
Jarrell says that he was drafted by the army and recounts how he found his way into the army band. He talks about the way white people treated him and elaborates on the effect brought about by being a musician and being in the military.
Fort Benning;Fort Leonard Wood;integration;Vietnam War
2173
Other music experiences
The other experience I had, when I went to Germany…
Jarrell shares that he and other army musicians from other countries would spend their nights at jazz clubs after performing. He mentions musicians he performed with in the US and how he went on the road with one of them for a short period before returning after being in a car wreck.
Belgium;NATO
2416
After the army
When I came out the army, I was hooked on drugs, man.
Jarrell describes his relationship with substance abuse. He talks about the jobs he worked while he was attending Athens Tech for marketing management and explains how racism began to affect his work life.
addiction;Athens Technical College;LSD;marijuana;opioids;race relations;Westinghouse Electric
2700
Integration / Klan activity
It was Black and white!
Jarrell shares that he was a part of the group that helped integrate The Varsity against the advice of his parents. He describes some of the stories he has heard about Klan activity during that time.
<i> If We So Choose </i>;demonstrations;Ebenezer Baptist Church West;Ku Klux Klan;protests;segregation
3065
Activity in Athens
I remember when a lot of Blacks had businesses on Hot Corner.
Jarrell recollects businesses from Hot Corner and his own experiences with them as well as the nature of the people who lived in The Bottom. He talks about various housing complexes and how they offered Black people better conditions. He emphasizes that, because he was a musician, he was treated very well and was welcome everywhere.
Broadacres Apartments;Ida Mae Hiram;Mack & Payne Funeral Home;Morton Theater;neighborhoods;Nellie B Apartments;New Town;Parkview Homes;public housing;Riverside;Rocksprings Homes;swimming
3553
Work
I had finished, and I had asked him about some of them jobs…
Jarrell explains how he became Assistant Director at the East Athens Community Center. He discusses how schools and their faculty handled integration through staffing changes.
Aaron Heard Park and Community Center;Bishop Park;Sandy Creek Park
3989
Bureaucratic racism
In the old days, when it was the city of Athens…
Jarrell describes how much more difficult it was to get resources and funding allocated for the parks often utilized by Black populations, as they would always end up being sent to a park usually used by white people.
Evelyn Corene Neely;institutionalized racism;Miriam Moore;Model Cities;Recreation and Parks Department;Virginia Walker
4266
Influential figures / record keeping
Alright, start from the beginning. This is your list.
Jarrell names teachers from his youth and from the Athens community who he considers to be impactful in his life. He talks about the discipline Black schools demanded from their students and the sense of community they fostered. He also shares some of his experiences in the workplace and describes how keeping records of his orders and communications became a way for him to protect himself from accusations.
Aaron Heard;Athens High and Industrial;community relations;Doc Roberson;George Hester;Howard B. Stroud;Josie Bell Fortner;Keith Heard;Lonnie W. Dickerson;Lyons Junior High;Michael Thurmond;Recreation and Parks Department;segregation;Walter Allen, Sr.;West Broad Elementary School
5039
Introduction to music
Number one: I grew up in the church.
Jarrell recounts the influence religion has played in his family, as many of his relatives are deacons. When he returned from the army, he began to play music in the church.
Christianity;Ebenezer Baptist Church East;Mt. Pleasant Baptist Church;musical instruments;piano;saxophone
5298
Last thoughts / conclusion
But my last question to you – well, two things.
Jarrell advises the younger generations to stay in church, abide by your parents, and get an education. He says that the time he’s most grateful for is the time he spent in the East Athens community.
Christianity;generational advice
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Venus Jarrell, October 7, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Musicians
African American musicians
African American veterans
United States--Veterans
United States. Army--Soldiers
Music
Vietnam War, 1961-1975
Parks--Georgia
Race relations
Community organization
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Venus Jarrell
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-10-07
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-070
Description
An account of the resource
Venus Jarrell was born in Athens in 1946, where he attended West Broad Elementary School, Lyons Junior High, and Athens High and Industrial. He was an active band member in school and, after graduation, continued playing in the band at Mississippi Valley State University. In this interview, Jarrell talks about his time in the army (and the army band), his experience being Assistant Director at the East Athens Community, and individuals from his life he felt made an impact.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
71 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-072/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2022-10-12
Interview with MyKeisha Ross, October 12, 2022
RBRL361AOHP-072
71 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
MyKeisha Ross
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_wi2x2d0c&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_dxyiu9ma" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="MyKeisha Ross, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
Content Warning: This interview includes references to sexual assault.
0
Introduction
Today is October the 12th, 2022...
Breeding briefly introduces Ross and gets preliminary information from her.
Athens Black history
167
Elementary school
So my timeline starts when I moved to Athens.
Ross talks about moving often as a child and being raised by a single mother. In school, Ross says that she was bullied a lot because she and her brother would sometimes wear the same clothes for days in a row.
Burney-Harris Middle School;Cleveland Road Elementary School;Rolling Ridge Apartments;Whitehead Road Elementary School;Winterville Elementary School
409
Middle school
A lot of my middle school years was the start of my abuse.
Ross mentions that her male relatives began to molest her when she was in the sixth grade, so school and sports became an escape for her. In middle school, she ran track, played basketball, and played football.
Burney-Harris Middle School;sexual assault;sexual violence
756
High school
Then when I got to high school, that’s when – in ninth grade, everything spun.
Ross describes the rivalry between Eastside and Westside. She says her crew, which was mainly other members of the basketball team, was described as pretty thugs. She talks about how being in the streets can bring about what she calls a “slave mentality,” which traps you and keeps you from moving on to better things.
Clarke Central High School;drugs;gangs;violence
1070
Values and identity
I’ve always felt like no one understood MyKeisha Ross.
Ross speaks of the morals her ancestors instilled in her. She describes the empathy she has for underprivileged communities and how she has opened a business today in order to help impoverished populations access clothing.
Edna Katie Ruth Jenkins Bell;family relations;generational relations;Kathy Bell;poverty
1253
High school graduation
I used to be ashamed to tell this part.
Ross says that her mother was not one to advocate on her behalf, and so she had to learn to stand up for herself. However, when Ross fell one point shy of passing the graduation test, her mother met with the Board of Education so that Ross could walk and graduate.
institutionalized racism;standardized testing
1593
College
I went to Middle Georgia College in Cochran, Georgia.
Ross explains that she became pregnant with her son her first year of college, and her mother would not allow her to get an abortion. She made money by betting with the guys on basketball games and by making stencils for tattoos.
gambling;sports;Valdosta State University
1837
Return to Athens / other education
I didn’t want to have my son in Cochran.
Ross describes being homeless for two years with her newborn son after her mom kicked them out. She attempted to go back to school, but nothing ever worked out. Instead, Ross says that she reads every day and is more educated now than she has ever been. She talks about providing education in the home for her children and what she thinks is important for them to know. She discusses the struggle of teachers and students alike in the current education system.
generational wealth;motherhood;Oprah;school systems;Zig Ziglar
2478
Harmful systems
-- how can you break the system that's meant to hurt us?
Ross discusses that it is not possible to reform a system, but that a new one must be made to replace it. She talks about the rivalry between non-profit organizations in Athens.
alternative schooling;institutionalized racism;Joy Village
2783
Lack of leadership
-- we’re missing leadership and love.
Ross talks about having to learn a lot of things herself and through experience as opposed to having elders guide her through the process. Ross and Breeding discuss the differences between a qualified individual and a loyal individual; loyal individuals are more likely to be rewarded in Athens.
activism;community relations;cultural conditioning;local elections
3305
Community engagement
So Neighborhood Leaders was created through the prosperity packet…
Ross elaborates on the entrenched system of loyalty to one another in the public service sector as opposed to loyalty to the public. She discusses how running for mayor has enlightened her to the inner workings of the county commission.
Athens Land Trust;Mariah Parker;race relations
3838
Vision for the future / conclusion
We were talking about the younger generation...
Ross explains that her goal in running for mayor was not to win, but to demonstrate that people with high school diplomas are capable. She emphasizes the need for the community to come together and work out their issues. She advises the youth to never give up.
Christianity;community relations;religion
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with MyKeisha Ross, October 12, 2022
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
African American athletes
Women athletes
Community organization
Local government
Nonprofit organizations
Religion
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
MyKeisha Ross
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2022-10-12
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-072
Description
An account of the resource
<strong>Content Warning:</strong> T<span>his interview includes references to sexual assault.</span><br /><br />MyKeisha Ross grew up and attended school in Athens, though her family has its roots in Ohio. Raised by a single mother, Ross had to look after herself and got her first job in the sixth grade. In school, she was very active in sports and loved basketball, which continues today. In this interview, Ross discusses her values, connection to the community, and how she has worked to improve the chances of success for at-risk and impoverished youth. She also criticizes the local government.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
51 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-079/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-079/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-02-16
Interview with Angela Jackson, February 16, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-079
51 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Angela Jackson
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_pwoolg3m&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_snke1uxn" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Angela Jackson, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Today is the 16th of February, 2023.
Breeding briefly introduces himself and Jackson.
Athens Black history;Black educators
106
Paternal family history
My parents are William Jackson and Henrietta Finch Jackson.
Jackson describes the vast amount of family who lived together growing up. She says that she has great memories of spending time with her paternal grandmother, who shared family history and personal experiences with her.
childhood development;holistic medicine;police brutality;Roberta Jackson;Sylvester Jackson
438
Maternal family history
Thinking about my mother’s side…
Jackson talks about the earliest educators in her life being the teachers in her family, particularly an aunt on her mother’s side who taught Jackson how to read. She explains that going to college was always emphasized for her as a child, even though neither of her parents attended.
Beauty Finch;education;Nashville, Tn.;National School of Business;Oglethorpe County;Savannah State College
650
School
At that time, we were not integrated yet.
Jackson discusses how, even though all the students in her classes were Black, they were treated differently depending on their ability level. When Jackson was in the second grade, schools were integrated. She says that she never realized anything involving race was going on and credits that to her young age at the time.
1960s;Alps Road Elementary School;Barnett Shoals Elementary School;Bea Alexander;Clarke Central High School;North Athens School;segregation;West Broad Street School
1027
Extracurriculars
What type of activities were you involved in?
Jackson talks about living too far from the center of town to be very involved in extracurricular activities, but she says that her mother taught her to sew when she was very young. She adds that she became a cheerleader in high school.
4H;basketball;Cedar Shoals;cheerleading;community relations;hopscotch;Timothy Road
1339
Community ties / church
Everybody was your mother.
Jackson discusses how adults and the elders always seemed to know when someone had been misbehaving. She explains that the community families all went to church with one another, and she had other relatives that attended church with them as well.
baptism;choir;Christianity;family relations;Huntertown;Oscar Jackson;Otis Jackson;prayer;Ruby Jackson;Timothy Baptist Church;Walter Jackson
1961
College
I ended up going to UGA.
Jackson explains how her father convinced her to go to UGA and what the demographic in classes looked like. She discusses how white students and professors treated her and compares it to the experiences of Black students today, in that, they haven’t changed.
Alpha Kappa Alpha;Barnett Shoals Elementary School;childhood development;fashion merchandising;home economics;McPhaul Child Development Lab;predominantly white institutions (PWIs);race relations;racism;University of Georgia
2471
Graduate school / teaching
– I started teaching at the same time.
Jackson says that after she finished undergrad, she went straight into a graduate program at UGA and began teaching at the same time. She taught at the schools on Cleveland Road and Chase street before becoming the Assistant Principal of Discipline at Burney-Harris-Lyons. After this position was dissolved, Jackson was moved to the school on Timothy Road, where she served for twenty years, sixteen as the principal.
Barnett Shoals Elementary School;Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle School;Chase Street School;childhood education;Cleveland Road Elementary School;Harold Horton;Timothy Road Elementary;Valdon Daniels
2741
Executive director / retirement
– so when there was another opening for the Executive Director of Teaching and Learning, I applied for that.
Jackson discusses becoming Executive Director of Teaching and Learning in the school system, but admits that she enjoyed working in the schools more than out of the schools. She retired in 2017 but continues to be involved in the schools.
administration;human resources;leadership
2885
Advice to a younger self
I would just motivate the child and let them know that they’re capable of being whatever they want to be…
Jackson says that she doesn’t think parents today are as encouraging with their kids as her parents were with her. She talks about the importance of kids finding what they’re passionate about and pursuing it, whether it be through college or not.
childhood development
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Angela Jackson, February 16, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
Education
School integration
Race relations
Women teachers
African American teachers
University and colleges--University of Georgia
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Angela Jackson
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-16
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-079
Description
An account of the resource
Angela Jackson was born in Athens in 1960 and attended several schools around the county growing up. Many of Jackson’s family were educators, and so education became an important part of her life. In this interview, Jackson discusses her experience growing up during integration and being one of the earliest Black students at the University of Georgia. She also discusses her career as a teacher, principal, and executive director.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
74 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-080/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-080/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-02-20
Interview with Xernona Thomas, February 20, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-080
74 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Xernona Thomas
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_jivorfdu&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_bjntdel2" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Xernona Thomas, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Today is the 20th of February, 2023.
Breeding briefly introduces Thomas and gives context to the interview.
Athens Black history
164
Family history
I was born in Athens.
Thomas says that she was raised in a very loving home, as she was the only grandchild on the maternal side of her family. She shares that her father was a pastor for a couple of churches in Athens and was very connected to the community, but that his family lived farther away.
Amos Jay Jackson, Jr.;Cordele, Ga.;Ebenezer Baptist Church;Freddie Brown Jackson;Hill First Baptist Church;St. Augustine, Fl.;Thankful Baptist Church;Timothy Road
494
Kindergarten
– when I started school, kindergarten was optional.
Thomas recalls being the first Black student enrolled at Athens Academy and discusses how race affected her relationships with other students. Because of the experiences her grandfather had with racism in his life, he was concerned about her well-being, but Thomas says that she largely remembers an innocence about the way other children understood race.
Hancock Avenue;Hawthorne Avenue;Macon Highway;racism;Shaw sisters;Shaw’s Daycare
760
Elementary school
– they put me at Alps Road for a year after that, and that’s where I started elementary school…
Thomas explains that her parents didn’t want her being the only Black student at Athens Academy to be negatively affecting her education, so they enrolled her in the Clarke County school system. After a year, Thomas’ parents let her decide if she wanted to return to Athens Academy; she didn’t.
Alps Road Elementary School;basketball;Timothy Road Elementary School;Vernon Jackson
1035
Middle school
It’s interesting – there were a lot of teachers of color…
Thomas recalls the relatively large number of Black educators at Clarke County. She says that they not only made her feel represented, but they also set high standards for their students. Thomas talks about these educators’ influence on her in what she considers her formative years.
Clarke County Middle School;Ed Shelton;Edna Bell Matthews;Ernie Hardaway;Skip Payne;Will Amos
1580
High school
– you couldn’t give less than your absolute best.
Thomas describes influential high school educators of hers, saying that, at the time, she thought that the women were mean. Now, she understands that they wanted to make sure their students had the best chances of succeeding as a Black person.
Abbie Malone;Clarke Central High School;Gayle Gordy McBride;Louise Jones;race relations;Robert Hawke;Ruth Hawke;Theodora T. Maxwell
1851
Racial and cultural contexts
‘Oh, she’s trying to be white.’ ‘Why is she talking white?’
Thomas discusses developing the ability to float comfortably between Black and white demographics. There was not only judgment from white people, but her Black peers often judged her as well. She describes being able to codeswitch as almost like being bilingual and explains that it happens depending on setting as well and not just on the race of the other party. She shares a conversation that she had with her daughter and her boyfriend to serve as an anecdote.
African-American Vernacular English (AAVE);class relations;codeswitching;HBCUs;prejudice;race relations;resilience
2459
Class perceptions
– my mom always taught me, you know, you have respect for your custodians...
Thomas talks about the knowledge that is held by custodial workers and the disregard with which they are usually treated. Thomas says that, because of this disregard, others will speak more freely around them, allowing them more information than most people.
<i>Roots</i>;cafeterias;class relations;gossip;janitors;librarians;prejudice;survival
2761
Expectations and empathy
– we sometimes love them into illiteracy.
Thomas describes the difficulty in challenging students who already have a challenging home life. She says that even though empathy is necessary, educators’ expectations for their students should not be lowered as a result. She talks about white teachers serving predominantly Black communities and how these teachers must be dedicated to their work and comfortable being in unfamiliar situations.
community relations;J.J. Harris Elementary School;Judia Jackson Harris Elementary School;Pinewood Elementary School;race relations
3263
Dimensions of privilege / self-evaluation
Not all privilege is based on color – some privilege is based on socioeconomic class.
Thomas compares different levels of privilege, using examples like owning a credit card and being able to find toys that look like you. Through these examples and talking about these experiences, Thomas says that it opens people up to understanding how privilege affects all aspects of life. Breeding shares an anecdote from his life, and Thomas compares it to how intent does not equal impact.
Africa;Barbie;education;race relations;representation;Santa Claus
4005
Advice to younger self
Find you – do you – be you – and be okay with that.
Thomas emphasizes the importance of sticking to one’s true self and the importance of respect. She says that no one is better than anyone else, but that everyone is creative and has their own talents to be cultivated.
childhood development;confidence;empathy;generational advice
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Xernona Thomas, February 20, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
African American teachers
Women teachers
School integration
Education
Race identity
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Xernona Thomas
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-20
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-080
Description
An account of the resource
Xernona Thomas was born in Athens in 1969 to a loving home in which she admits she was spoiled by attention. She was the first Black student to be enrolled in Athens Academy, but she finished her education within the Clarke County school system. In this interview, Thomas talks about race and class in society, codeswitching, and how privilege takes on different forms.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
87 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-081/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-081/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-02-21
Interview with Melvin Stroud, February 21, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-081
87 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Melvin Stroud
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_qn8xhihw&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_aewy2qcs" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Melvin Stroud, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
.. I would like to thank you, Mr. Melvin Stroud for allowing me to interview you
Stroud is introduced before he details the day of his birth. He shares that he was born at home and explains that because of segregation, most Black children were born at home by midwife.
Daisy Stroud;Segregation
165
Early life
Ok, I want you to tell me some of your earliest-
Stroud introduces his family members and details the work that his parents did. He lists the schools that he attended and states that he only ever went to segregated schools. Stroud talks about attending college for a year, before returning home to work in Athens.
Athens High and Industrial;Charlene Hunter-Gault;Emma Stroud;Fort Valley State University;George Stroud;Hamilton Holmes;Integration;North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company;Penolia Stroud;Reese Street;Segregation;Union Baptist Institute;University of Georgia;Zeta Phi Beta
464
Working and racism
What was that job
Stroud talks about working at Westinghouse Electric and his love for the job. He describes the company's dynamics post-desegregation, highlighting how little had changed since segregation. Stroud explains the discrepancies between white and Black employees and details some racist incidents that occurred while he worked there.
Integration;Ku Klux Klan
808
Childhood community
Tell me about your community
Stroud describes the community he grew up in. He recalls how quiet the neighborhood was and how all the neighbors knew and were willing help one another. Stroud explains that there was always plenty of food within the community because they harvested their own food. He also reflects on the people that used to live in his community and mentions that it was common to go to another family's house unannounced.
Brookly Avenue;Charter Communication;Columbia Brookside Classic Residences;Hawthorne Avenue;Oconee County;Oglethorpe Avenue;Walter Foster;William Powell
1425
Family Dynamics
Let's talk a little bit about family dynamics
Stroud talks about his family dynamics and shares the roles and responsibilities that the older and younger sibling had. He recalls the only time he was hit by his father and details the relationship between him and his older brother, Charles. Stroud also mentions picking cotton on his grandfather's farm, emphasizing how much he disliked being away from home. He also shares details about his grandparents and their lives.
E.D. Stroud School;Edwin David Stroud;Elberton, Georgia;Etta Flanagan;Farmington, Georgia;George Flanagan;Greensborough, Georgia
1895
Black businesses and home ownership
Athens was the place to be because of Black businesses, correct?
Stroud recalls some of the Black businesses that existed in Athens and points out how modern these areas have become. He attributes lack of interest in land ownership as the reason many Black people no longer own land today. Stroud also lists some of the areas of land that used to be owned by Black people. He also talks about the hospitals that were available for Black people and the segregation that existed within these facilities.
Alps Road;Alps Shopping Center;Beechwoods;Brown's Barbershop;Dr. Donnarell Green;Four Seasons;Frank Barkley;Franklin Street;Hot Corner;Liberty Dry Cleaning;Mack and Payne Funeral Home;Morton Theatre;Mutual Funeral Home;Piedmont Athens Regional;Pulaski St.;Reese Street Elementary School;Rev. Archibald Killian;St. Mary's Hospital;Susan Medical Center;Urban Renewal;Veterans of Foreign Wars;West Hancock Ave.;Wilson Barbershop
2556
Civil Rights Demonstrations
Do you remember any of the protests?
Stroud talks about the Civil Rights demonstrations in Athens and describes where they took place and the planning that went behind them. He recalls the racial climate during that time, highlighting how Black people were unjustly treated during these demonstrations. Stroud retells the death of Lemuel Penn, a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserve who was murdered by Ku Klux Klan members.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.;Ebenezer Baptist Church West;Rev. William Hudson;Segregation;The Varsity
2824
Friends/ Gun violence in youth
Tell us a little bit about your friends
Stroud talks about the tricks him and his friends used to play when he was a child and recalls sneaking into the movie theatre. He explains how now its more dangerous for the youth because of the increased access to guns. Stroud recalls how difficult it was to obtain a gun when he was younger, and reinstates his position that violence among Black youth has gone up.
Floyd Johnson;Lloyd Johnson
3383
Marriage and family
So, tell me about um- married life and then about your sons.
Stroud describes his two sons and talks about where they are now. He recalls how quiet the neighborhood was and how his son caused him no trouble. Stroud talks about buying his sons motorcycles and mentions how often people mispronounce his son Innes' name.
Derrick Stroud;Elizibeth Stroud;Fatherhood;Innes Stroud;Savannah State University
3670
Childhood games and interests
Speaking of games, as a little boy what kinds of games did you play?
Stroud lists some of the indoor and outdoor games that he played and recalls playing such games with his brother, Charles. He talks about his love for sports and the discouragement he often got for his size. Stroud also discusses his interests in cars and being a handyman. He attributes these interests to the times when he observed and worked with his father and other community members as they fixed houses and cars.
Charles Stroud
4369
Segregation and the Civil Rights Movement
Just different experience I had during the desegregation time
Stroud recalls a time when he accidently went to the white-only waiting room at a bus station. He describes being ignored by the white worker and how he later got back at that worker. Stroud explains that although he attended NAACP meetings, his wife was more involved in the Civil Rights movement and was arrested for protesting. He shares his wife's experience protesting and expresses how he felt seeing his loved ones fighting for equality.
Civil Rights demonstrations;Ebenezer Baptist Church West;Greyhound;Kenneth Dious;NAACP;Racism;Rev. William Hudson;The Varsity
4673
Changing times
.. what advice would you give them?
Stroud advises people of all ages to not stoop to the levels of others. He recalls how in the past, Black people were well-dressed and it was expected for boys to maintain their hair. Stroud lists some of the other rules that girls and boys were expected to follow at that time and compares this to modern day. He also claims that Black people in the present are searching for an identity and talks about the appropriation of Black culture by white mainstream media.
cultural appropriation;generational differences
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Melvin Stroud, February 21, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Agriculture
Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations
United States--Civil rights
Community activists
Community-supported agriculture
Discrimination
Education
School integration
Segregation
Urban renewal
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Melvin Stroud
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-21
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-081
Description
An account of the resource
Melvin Stroud was born and raised in Athens and has worked in the city for decades. Stroud attended Union Baptist Institute and Athens High and Industrial before furthering his education at Fort Valley State University. In this interview, Stroud talks about growing up in Athens and the community that existed at the time. He also discusses Black land and business ownership in Athens, Civil Rights demonstrations, and the changes within the Black community over the years.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
63 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-084-02/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-084-02/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-03-06
Interview with Barbara Barnett, Part 2, March 6, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-084-02
63 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Barbara Barnett
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_dul3lcbm&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_qkkloxkb" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Barbara Barnett, Part 2, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Today is the third month, sixth day of the year 2023
Barnett is introduced and thanked for the interview
87
Mother
First, let's talk about your mom
Barnett discusses her mother's love for education and people. She talks about her mother's involvement in the community and her job in domestic work. Barnett describes her mother's outspokenness and details the history behind racial inequality in America.
Fr. John Mulroy;Jessie Walton Barnett;Racism;Slavery;Wilkes County
434
Community work
Barnett explains how her mother's work in the community influenced her to also work in the community. She details the negative reactions to school integration from white people and how her mother taught her and her siblings that they were equal regardless of race. Barnett also mentions the presence of KKK members in Athens during that time and her mother's strong sense of justice.
Ku Klux Klan;Racism
766
School Integration
What was your mom's stance as far as you remember?
Barnett talks about the opposition to integration from both white and Black people and her mother's passion for fighting against injustice. She shares examples of her mother's work in integration and the community, highlighting her mother's outspoken attitude towards inequality. Barnett also reflects on attending Athens High School when it was first integrated and talks about the discrimination that she faced while there.
Athens High School;Corrine Neely;Landys Miriam Moore;Racism;Segregation;Virginia Walker;YMCA
1168
Participating in Civil Rights demonstrations
I remember when they had- when we were marching on down Broad street in front of the Varsity, it was a riot really.
Barnett details her involvement in a protest advocating for the inclusion of Black history in school curriculum. She talks about her brother's arrest during the protests and her mother's willingness to let them participate despite her fear for their safety. Barnett also recalls being arrested multiple times and describes an instance when she was unfairly arrested while raising money for UNICEF. She explains that her parents understood racism was an issue and shares her father's experience with racism as a child.
Ebenezer West;Nathaniel Fox;The Varsity
1595
Father
My dad was a good dad. You know, a hard worker.
Barnett talks about her father's dedication to his children and his wife. She explains that he was hard working and, although he could not attend events with his wife, he was supportive of her community work. Barnett also describes how her father taught her mother to discipline her sons and shares that she uses this method today.
John Tyler Barnett;Marriage;parental advice;parenting
1942
Rites of Passage
..and I want to know the impact of the Rites of Passage.
Barnett recalls her time working with Rites of Passage, a program focused on empowering African American youth through Black history education. She talks about the reason the program was started and its need within the Black community. Barnett shares how they received funding and talks about how much the children enjoyed the program and learning about their ancestors. She also details the positive impact that it had on the youth and the Black community.
Community outreach;Edmund Pettus Bridge;Fred Smith;Joy Village;Mentorship;Sankofa bird;Selma, Alabama;Weed and Seed;William Holley
2531
Mentoring the youth
What are you- what's the feeling you're getting from the kids?
Barnett describes the encouragement that she gives to the children she mentors. She explains how Rites of Passage has manifested in her mentorship with children and details the work that she does today. Barnett also talks about how Rites of Passage accommodated for children of different ages and explains how younger children were often more passionate to participate in activities.
Child mentorship;Clarke Central High School;Community outreach;Dr. Swade Huff;First AME Church
3015
Politics of Black history
The climate of things now where boars of education across the nation, as well as the local board of education had to pass certain resolutions of what could be taught in school.
Barnett talks about how teaching Black history empowers Black youth. She explains that as a child, she only learned about white history and questions why Black students are not able to have the same access to their history. Barnett emphasizes that the purpose of teaching Black history is to expose the truth rather than shaming others for the past and discusses how beneficial Rites of Passage is for all students regardless of race.
Critical Race Theory (CRT);Slavery
3394
Irrationality of racism
Well, is there anything else
Barnett discusses how much more accepting of Black history schools are now, although prejudice still exists. She explains why she never understood racism and talks about how irrational certain laws were. Barnett also attributes slavery to the reason there are discrepancies between races and shares her pride in the language and culture that exists today because of it.
African American Vernacular English (AAVE);Ebonics;Integration;Segregation;Slavery
3675
Reinstate Rights of Passage
..and you had to tell them why you wanted why you wanted Rites of Passage to be reinstalled, what would it be?
Barnett asserts that Rites of Passage should be reinstated because Black children should be allowed access to their history.
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Barbara Barnett, Part 2, March 6, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American women
Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations
United States--Civil rights
Community activists
Community organization
Cultural diversity
Discrimination
Education
Mentoring in education
School integration
Segregation
Race relations
Local government
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Barbara Barnett
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-03-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-084-02
Description
An account of the resource
Barbara Barnett is an active member of the community who has dedicated her life to working with the youth. Barnett has served as a Program Director of Rites of Passage, an organization focused on empowering Black youth through Black history education. In this interview, Barnett talks about her mother’s involvement in the community and the influence that she had on her own work. She also reflects on her participation during the Civil Rights Movement and discusses the significance of Black history education.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
83 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-085/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-085/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-02-22
Interview with Charles Stroud, February 22, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-085
83 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Charles Stroud
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_eb90pfzk&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_qphxri9j" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Charles Stroud, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
Today is the second month of the year and the twenty-second day, 2023.
Breeding briefly introduces Stroud and gives context to the interview.
Athens Black history
100
Family background
I was born on the same day as my grandmother.
Stroud talks about how he and his grandmother share a birthday and he describes the dedication his grandfather had to the church as a deacon and speaks of his high morals.
Anna Flannigan;Christianity;Edward Stroud;family relations;George East Stroud, Sr.;George Flannigan;Mount Pleasant Baptist Church;religion
410
Community and church
I want you to tell me about the community that you grew up in.
Stroud describes how everyone in the community he lived in went to church, so the church was his community. He explains how central the church was to his upbringing and how attending church wasn’t really a choice, but rather something that you were expected to do.
Brooklyn Rd;community relations;Hawthorne Ave
695
Families in the community
– they say in Africa there’s what they call a griot…
Stroud summarizes the families who lived in the area, most of whom attended Mount Pleasant and some of whom were his relatives. He says that most people in the community were known by some kind of familial term, such as “Cousin Gene” or “Uncle Jack.”
agriculture;Alps Rd;Andrew Jones;cotton;Davenport;Davis;Ed Bazell;Emma Heard;Flannigan;Freddie Jones;Gordon;Jenning;Johnson;Louis;Neil;Power;Reese;Stewart;Trisha Scott;Ward
1200
Local schools
Most of the families out there attended Union Baptist Institute.
Stroud discusses the various schools that Black students attended, giving context as to how they are related to one another and notable individuals from them.
Athens High and Industrial;Baxter St;Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle School;Charles H. Lyons;Ebenezer Baptist Church West;Jeruel Academy;Knox Institute and Industrial School;Lyons Elementary School
1629
Education and teaching
My education started out at Union Baptist Institute.
Stroud talks about attending Union Baptist Institute until the 10th grade with Black schools were consolidated into Athens High and Industrial. He then details completing an undergraduate degree and the start of his career teaching in Macon, where he stayed for 18 years. He describes the disciplined attitudes of the students at the first school he was at because of the JROTC presence.
Clarke Central High School;Fort Valley State University;Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps (JROTC);Lanier High School;Macon, Ga.;Miller High School;Peter G. Appling High School;politics;segregation;social studies
2120
Southwest Magnet High School and Law Academy
I tell people all the time – that had an upside and a downside.
Stroud talks about some of the notable athletes that came out of Southwest and discusses the pros and cons of working at the largest school in the nation at the time. He describes the talent of the band and the events that the school would hold around the time of graduation.
Jeff Malone;Los Angeles Lakers;marching band;Michael Hunt;Miles Patrick;Norm Nixon;Terry Fair;Walter “Stinky” Daniels
2481
The effects of integration
It took a lot of values away from us.
Stroud discusses how the theater was a big part of life when he was growing up and the talent that was shown in the three act plays. He talks about how after integration, a lot of the activity in the performing arts dried up.
<i>Little Brown Baby</i>;acting;chorus;John Thomas Howard;public speaking
https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44197/little-brown-baby
Little Brown Baby by Paul Laurence Dunbar
2655
Sports
I loved the sports…
Stroud recounts his determination to be a professional baseball player when he was in high school, even though his mother didn’t want him to play sports out of fear he would get hurt.
basketball;football
2950
Macon
I kind of fell in love with Macon.
Stroud discusses how he never was uncomfortable with the idea of moving away from home and contrasts it to how his wife felt about their time in Macon. He talks about taking over DECA once he moved back to Athens.
community relations;Distributive Education Clubs of America (DECA);marketing education;Oglethorpe County
3258
Athens-Clarke County
I finally told him yes, I was coming.
Stroud recounts how colleagues would comment on the similarities of his and his more strict supervisor’s appearance. He shares a story of how he won the favor of a notoriously racist administrator.
Cedar Shoals;Fred Shirley;integration;James Harolton;racism
3860
Other events and education
My wife – we been married 57 years.
Stroud briefly describes his wife and children. He talks about his postgraduate education and why he stopped short of three master’s degrees. He recounts other experiences with racism, those that he experienced personally and those that he has been told.
<i>If We So Choose</i>;Albany State University;Carlton James;civil rights;Howard Simms;Ku Klux Klan;Lemuel Penn;Melanie Stroud;protesting;racism;segregation;terrorism;University of Georgia
4602
Advice to younger generations
Different people, different advice can be applied based on what the different situation is.
Stroud shares a story of a former student of his who got away from alcoholism by changing her friend group and who she played with. He says that in order for younger generations to succeed, they must be willing to put in the work themselves.
generational advice
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Charles Stroud, February 22, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
African American teachers
Middle school teachers
United States--Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations
Discrimination
School integration
Segregation
Race relations
Education
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Charles Stroud
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-22
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-085
Description
An account of the resource
Charles Stroud was born in Athens in 1939 to a tight-knit community. Stroud describes many of the neighborhood figures of his childhood as cousins, uncles, or aunts, even if they weren’t related by blood. Stroud was an educator in Macon and Athens for a total of 36 years, teaching social studies and history in middle schools. In this interview, Stroud talks about his experiences with institutionalized racism, the effects of integration, and the education system in Georgia.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-087-01/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
137 minutes
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-087-01/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-02-27
Interview with Willie Hull, Part 1, February 27, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-087-01
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
Willie Hull
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" type="text/javascript" src='https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_ylzdn7a5&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_3tugz40b" width="640" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Willie Hull, Part 1, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
"First I'd like you to say your name, then spell it for me."
Interview begins. Willie Lewis Hull, born 1949, introduces himself.
Black history; Athens history
0
121
Early childhood memories
"And from there, what I'd like for you to do, is tell me your earliest memories."
Hull shares his earliest childhood memories. He retells a story about his older sister, Alice, refusing to go to school because she was too scared to go in without their father. Hull recalls being sent to elementary school early, with Alice, in order to comfort her.
Judia Jackson Harris Elementary School; J.C. Harris Elementary School; education
0
612
Parents
"Tell me a little bit about your parents, and as far back you can go in the family."
Hull shares his parents names and the county they came from (Oglethorpe). He talks about his father being a hardworking man with common sense, who valued education as he only completed 3rd grade. Hull then describes his mother as someone who had love for everyone. He recalls the stories his father shared with him about growing up in the country.
Lewis Hull; Mary Pope Hull; Oglethorpe County, Ga.; farming; Black farmers; sharecropping; school; subsistence farming
0
1069
Childhood memories in rural Georgia part 1 / Grandparents
Hull recalls several childhood memories from living in rural Georgia and spending time with his grandparents. He remembers milking his grandmother's cow, Daisy, in the mornings, churning butter, drawing well water, and using a wood stove. Hull describes the process of washing work clothes in a big pot over a fire and using a ruckboard for washing nicer clothes.
Alice Wallace Pope; George Pope; Floyd Hull; Sally Finch Hull; Hull, Ga.; Oglethorpe County, Ga.; country; subsistence living; farming; outhouse
0
1567
Childhood memories in rural Georgia part 2
"And down at my grandmother's house, they didn't have electricity."
Hull continues to talk about living in rural Georgia and spending time with his grandparents, who didn't have electricity. He emphasizes the importance of keeping the wood pile full and how he never saw living in the countryside as being difficult. Hull expresses his thanks for his parents for instilling the value of hard work in him. He then talks about the animals they raised and slaughtered for food, and describes how they used a sweet potato bank to keep food over the winter.
subsistence farming; farming; livestock; Oglethorpe County, Ga.; country; 1950s
0
1959
Education in Athens part 1
"Now let's go to city life."
Hull recalls attending Lyons School from first through third grade. He discusses the history of Lyons School, and how it was not built for student success. Hull talks about attending West Broad School for fourth through seventh grade after moving to Rocksprings in 1958, then attending Burney-Harris High School from eighth through twelfth grade. Throughout the segment, he names all of the Black schools in the school district at the time and describes their locations and grades.
Athens, Ga.; Madison County, Ga.; Hull, Ga.; Miriam Moore Center; North Athens Elementary School; East Athens Elementary School; Lyons Elementary School; West Broad Elementary School; Athens High School; Clarke Central High School; subfreshman; 1950s; 1960s; Athens High School; Clarke Central High School; Jeruel Academy; Union Baptist Institute; Rocksprings Homes
0
http://www.theyellowjacket.com/class-1967.html
Burney-Harris Class of 1967
2341
Systems of education and racism
"You had two systems of education."
Hull discusses the educational divide during segregation and how there were two systems of public education under one superintendent. He briefly talks about the private schools in Athens and the impact of churches on education. Hull explains again which schools he attended. He highlights the ill choices for location for public Black schools at that time, and how the system was built to fail Black students. Hull then discusses the power imbalance in the school system, and how he only began to understand why and how as he grew older.
Michael Thurmond; A Story Untold; North Athens Elementary School; East Athens Elementary School; Lyons Elementary School; West Broad Elementary School; Jeruel Academy; Union Baptist Institute; Freedmen's Bureau; Chestnut Grove School
0
2773
Rocksprings Homes / Education in Athens part 2
"I moved to Rocksprings homes in '58."
Hull mentions his move to Rocksprings Homes in 1958, before listing several of his teachers and their impacts on him. He shares the difficulties he had attending school, as he had to care for his younger siblings, and how teachers went out of their way to make sure that he stayed on track. Once again, Hull states the schools he attended and the years for each school throughout the segment. Hull then shifts to talk about the culture shock of moving from rural Oglethorpe County to Rocksprings, especially having indoor plumbing and not chopping wood. He discusses the impact of his neighbors and how they looked out for one another.
Skip Payne; Mabel Johnson; family; Burney-Harris High Shcool; Athens High and Industrial; West Broad Elementary School; Irene Alfred; Black community; Black educators
0
3177
Racism and the importance of education
"Now fast forward a little bit to 1961."
Hull discusses the socio-political environment in Athens when the University of Georgia was integrated. Hull's father worked at UGA during that time, and Hull recalls visiting him at work and seeing the Marshalls escort Charlayne Hunter-Gault and Hamilton Holmes to class. He then talks about Hunter-Gault and Holmes coming to the Rocksprings YMCA to talk with the kids. Hull remembers witnessing a cross burning in response to integration close to his home. He talks about learning more about bias and prejudice at that age, and learning why racists were so afraid of education in the Black community. Hull recalls that those who held power at that time were trying to take away access to education and how it confused him.
Rocksprings Community Center; 1950s; 1960s; segregation; racism; Black power; fear; Rocksprings Homes
0
3644
Reactions to racism
"How did that affect you at the time?"
Hull reflects on being angry and upset during the UGA's integration. He recalls identifying with the nonviolent movement but also with the more militant organizations. Hull talks about SNCC and the sit-ins and protests they led, though he wasn't a member. He also discusses the protests in Athens and recalls being arrested three times for protesting in 1969. Hull retells a personal story of white students littering in his neighborhood and reflects on his frustration with feeling helpless.
Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; Malcom X; Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee; Greensboro sit-ins; Varsity sit-ins; Athens, Ga.; Clarke Middle School; Alps Road Elementary School; Rocksprings Homes
0
4190
Questioning the status quo / Segregation in public schools
"So fast forward, I'm in high school then."
Hull talks about when he started asking questions about segregation in high school. He explains the difficult 15-minute walk he had to take to Burney-Harris High School, while he lived only five minutes from the white Athens High School. Hull emphasizes that he and the rest of the Black community in Athens paid taxes the same as everyone else and questioned why he couldn't use the facilities or attend the schools paid for by his tax dollars. He talks about the importance of education and protests in changing the community.
property tax; First Amendment; Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.; nonviolence; 1969; 1960s; Civil Rights Movement; integration; University of Georgia; UGA
0
4694
Protesting
"Getting back to the protests, we protested in '69. I went to three protests."
Hull explains that he marched in three protests and was arrested all three times. He then discusses the importance of leadership, and mentions several leaders in the community who made sure the protests remained organized and civil. Hull goes into detail describing the first protest where he and a couple hundred others were arrested by the police and National Guard, of which led him to meet Civil Rights leader Hosea Williams. Hull then talks about the other two protests being much less chaotic, as there were TV cameras. Hull clarifies the protests occurred after he graduated from high school, but that they questioned the continued segregation of Athens' public schools.
Dr. Nathaniel Fox; Leonard Laster; Civil Rights protests; 1960s; integration; nonviolence; Civil Rights Movement; marches
0
5231
After high school
"And where did you go after graduation? What did you do?"
Hull talks about graduation from high school and clarifies the dates on the previous protests. He then recalls being called for selective service, but not being drafted because of his crooked toe.
hammer toe; education; college; 1960s
0
5566
Reasons for protesting
"While it's on my mind, '69, that's when we protests, and there had to have been a reason, because segregation in the schools."
Hull returns to talking about the protests in 1969, and how there is a difference between integrating and integration. The protests of 1969 in Athens drew attention to the continued segregation and the federal government eventually forced integration of the schools in 1970. Hull then emphasizes that the push for integration wasn't about intermingling with white students, but rather being able to have the choice to attend any public school, as they were supposed to be for everyone.
Eli Jackson; Greene County, Ga.; segregation; public school; education; self-value; self-esteem; Black identity; Black pride; pride
0
6065
Children's recreation
"You have a reputation of working with children in the community, especially in the area of recreation."
Hull discusses how he started working in children's recreation, as he was used to taking care of and organizing his younger siblings. He discusses briefly moving away from home to the Pauldoe community, and how he used to go after work to organize games for the kids in the area at the recreation center.
Rocksprings Community; Rocksprings Community Center; parks and recreation; 1960s; family; Jack R. Wells neighborhood; Jack R. Wells Community Center
0
6357
Early career
"In '70... in '69, I got a job with, it was a company called the Kendall Company."
Hull shifts to discuss the various jobs he held in his early adult life, including working for the Housing Authority to organize Boy Scout troops and working for the Athens YMCA, organizing games and people in the afternoons. Hull talks about applying for and getting the job of supervisor for the recreation department at the YMCA in 1973, thanks to the superintendent at the time, Thomas N. Lay, and how Hull oversaw four neighborhood centers, while his counterpart, Sara Mary, oversaw the other four centers.
Pete Fair; Athens Housing Authority; paraprofessional; BSA; Boy Scouts of America; John Ward; 1970s; Athens Technical College; UGA; Athens Recreational Department; Thomas N. Lay; Lonnie Dickerson; Athens-Clarke County Leisure Services
0
6876
Central Athens Community Center
"Central Athens Community, which is now Thomas N. Lay Park, opened, came online, in '75."
Hull discusses the opening of Central Athens Community Center and his job as Assistant Director at the center. After working under two separate directors, Hull became director due to his experience as a neighborhood center supervisor and leader. He talks about becoming director in 1977, and the importance of Lay's mentorship and the other staff's effort into turning the community center into the positive environment that it is today.
Thomas N. Lay; Maxie Foster; Ricky Hudson; East Athens Community Center; Aaron Heard; parks and recreation; Athens Recreation Department; Clay Brown; Bennie Roberson; Jacqueline Elder; Ioree Pope; philosiphy; sacrifice; community impact; mentorship
0
7447
Renaming of community center
"He passed away in 1990 and thank God that he was in our life when he was."
Hull discusses the renaming to Thomas N. Lay Park soon after Lay's passing, and how the park continued to provide positive programming through the years post-consolidation. He mentions his retirement in 2010, having served 38 years as the director of the center. Hull shares that the gymnasium at the park was renamed to the Willie Hull Gymnasium in 2022, and how surprised and honored he was at the dedication ceremony.
Dwain P. Chambers; Central Athens Community Center; consolidation; Athens-Clarke County; Athens Recreation Department; Athens-Clarke County Leisure Services; 1990s; 2000s
0
https://accls.smugmug.com/Lay-Park/Willie-Hull-Gym-Dedication/i-2xj6xNx
Willie Hull Gym Dedication Photos
7792
Advice for younger generations / closing
"What I would tell a child is some of the things I've told children all my life."
Hull gives his advice to younger generations, highlighting the importance of knowing who you are and believing in yourself. The interview ends.
positivity; knowledge; self-esteem; legacy; God; blessing; productivity
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
/render.php?cachefile=
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Willie Hull, Part 1, February 27, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Parks--Georgia
Community organization
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Willie Hull
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-27
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-087-01
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Description
An account of the resource
Willie Hull was born in Hull, Georgia in 1949 and moved to Athens in 1958, giving him childhood experiences in both rural and urban areas. After graduating from Burney-Harris High School in 1967, Hull participated in several Civil Rights protests in the late 60s, pushing for the proper integration of schools in Athens. Hull was the second-oldest of 12 children and grew up taking care of and organizing his younger siblings, leading to his career in community recreation. He served as Director of Lay Park for 38 years before retiring. In this interview, Hull discusses the differences in his upbringing in Hull versus Athens and the racism he experienced in Athens. He then goes on to talk about the progression of his career, from volunteering to retirement after 38 years as director.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Music Project Oral History Collection
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Music Project Oral History Collection is part of the Athens Music Project (AMP), a Willson Center for Humanities and Arts research cluster co-directed by Jean Kidula and Susan Thomas. Interviews in this collection document the development of Athens as a breeding ground for multiple musical communities--the most prominent of them being the Southern independent rock scene. Other areas to be documented include a variety of African-American musical traditions, hip-hop, jazz, bluegrass, folk music traditions, Latin music, new music and conceptual sound art, classical music, and musical theater, and AthFest.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=2&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Subject
The topic of the resource
Music
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Music
Georgia--Communities
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL379AMP
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Mamie Fike, June 11, 2018 RBRL379AMP-085 RBRL379AMP Athens Music Project Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Mamie Fike Grace Elizabeth Hale 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_0xediy8h& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true& ; & ; wid=1_qxrmw5p2" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; sandbox=" ; allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 10 Move to Athens and Long Low Rumble I just want to ask you to start when you moved to Athens and what you were like when you moved to Athens. Fike describes moving to Athens, Georgia to attend the University of Georgia on a music scholarship. She talks about being unhappy at UGA until she discovered the Athens music scene. She describes playing the violin in a local instrumental band called Long Low Rumble, mentioning the success of their first gigs. She states that Long Low Rumple started in 1986 and released one cassette tape during the five years they were together. She also mentions playing in Cordy Lon and Chickasaw Mud Puppies. 40 Watt ; college ; education ; Flagpole Magazine ; Michael Stipe ; orchestra ; Spartanburg, South Carolina ; violinist 893 Wet, Toast, and Hetch Hetchy Wet was my attempt to do the all girl band. Fike describes starting an all-girl band called Wet which stayed together for seven years and was later renamed Jack Pot City. She also talks about playing bass in a funk metal band called Toast. She discusses being part of Hetch Hetchy which was a band put together by Linda Stipe. Fike describes going on a national tour with Hetch Hetchy that was organized by their record company, Texas Hotel Records. She also mentions playing violin in Asa Nisi Masa and singing in Organ Grinder. A Capella ; bands ; Michael Stipe ; parties ; recording ; relationships ; River Phoenix ; violin 1916 Changes in Athens and favorite bands What was the most fun you had in a group? Fike describes her favorite moment in bands, mentioning opening for Tracy Chapman with Asa Nisi Masa, playing a cancer benefit with Wet, and going on tour. She lists her favorite Athens bands including Porn Orchard, R.E.M, Oh-Ok, The Squalls, Pylon, Slappy, and numerous others. She discusses how she felt like she arrived in Athens at the end of big era, and she talks about being unimpressed and disconnected from the current Athens music scene. Billie James ; Flagpole Magazine ; Magna Pop ; nostalgia ; The Red and Black 2500 Musical equipment Could you tell us a little bit about how you made--what kind of equipment you used with your violin? Fike describes her struggle to amplify her violin without distorting the sound, mentioning various amplifiers. She talks about buying electric violins and stuffing her violin with cotton. acoustic violin ; Fishman Amplifiers ; sound ; sound system 2780 Employment Maybe you could talk about some of the jobs you have had? Fike talks about almost dropping out of college to focus on music ; however, her mother made her stay and finish her accounting degree. She describes working at numerous day jobs while she focused on music including restaurant work, cost accounting, and tax assistance. She talks about starting a health food store called Daily Groceries. She talks about getting a job at the library in 1998 where she continues to work. Fike also describes how her last band, Jack pot City, dissolved. She mentions how a friend paid for her to do solo recordings at a California Studio ; however, the recordings were never released. B C K Chicken ; Community Connection ; Cookie and Company ; education ; Lumpkin Cafe ; Mental Health Association ; National Tax ; record producer ; University of Georgia Business School 3466 Athens Symphony I have still played in the Athens Symphony this whole time. Fike describes playing in the University of Georgia Symphony and Athens Symphony as part of her music scholarship. After college, she stopped playing in the Athens Symphony for a few years before rejoining it. Fike describes disliking the Athens Symphony as a student but appreciating it as an adult because it keeps her from losing her skills on violin. She discusses how she had great technical ability in college due to constant practice, but Fike states that now she focuses on the soul of her music. Christmas concert ; fiddling ; music education ; orchestra ; violinist 3838 Music education How did you learn? Fike describes learning piano at age five. She discusses learning violin in school after she was assigned the instrument due to a musical test. She talks about taking private lessons for piano and violin beginning in 7th grade, mentioning how her parents forced her to practice. She describes how she can only play guitar and bass by ear while she can both read music and play violin by ear. She discusses her previous dislike of musicians who sang out of tune before she began to appreciate notes as a spectrum. Converse College ; double bass ; family ; father ; pizzicato ; suzuki method ; vibrato ; viola 4554 Experiences in the Athens Smoke, remember that band Smoke. Fike mentions other bands she enjoyed including Smoke, Dream So Real, and the Kilkenny Cats. She describes a house on Elizabeth Street where people partied, mentioning how the roof said " ; Welcome Sky people" ; and a man lived in the crawl space beneath the house. She also describes how someone lived in their practice space downtown which had no water access. homelessness ; interviews ; Newt Carter ; poverty ; Rick Naylor 4952 Racial climate in Athens I did this thing recently for Jeanette Rankin. Fike discusses participating in and later helping facilitate a discussion about race through the Jeanette Rankin Foundation. She describes the racial climate in Athens as intense and more divided than it used to be. She talks about how the music scene continues to be segregated with little overlap. She mentions how the controversy over the bodies found beneath Baldwin Hall increased tension in the community, but she states that Mariah Parker's election to city council is a sign of positive change. clubs ; Hip Hop ; Linqua Franqa ; police ; racial violence ; Spirits ; University of Georgia oral history No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL379AMP/findingaid
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
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91 minutes
OHMS Object
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL379AMP-085/ohms
Repository
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Mamie Fike, June 11, 2018
Identifier
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RBRL379AMP-085
Creator
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Mamie Fike
Grace Elizabeth Hale
Format
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audio
oral histories
Type
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sound
Coverage
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Athens, Georgia
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Subject
The topic of the resource
Women musicians
Bands (Music)
Race relations
Description
An account of the resource
Mamie Fike moved to Athens to attend the University of Georgia on a music scholarship. She played violin in numerous bands including Long Low Rumble, WET, Jackpot City, Toast, Hetch Hetchy, and the Athens Symphony Orchestra. She currently works as a Business Manager at Athens Regional Library System. In this interview, Fike talks about her music education, performing in various bands, and changes in Athens.
Date
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2018-06-11
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Griffin African American Oral History Project
Subject
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Georgia--History, Local
African Americans--History
Georgia--Communities
Description
An account of the resource
The Griffin African American Oral History Project is a collaboration between the Griffin Branch NAACP, the Griffin Campus Library of the University of Georgia, and the Richard B. Russell Library. The seed was planted in the meetings of the Educational Prosperity Initiative which is also chaired by the president of the Griffin Branch NAACP, Jewel Walker-Harps. Collaborators on the project include: Griffin Housing Authority; Spalding County Collaborative; Fairmont Alumni Association; University of Georgia—Athens and Griffin campuses; and the Educational Prosperity Initiative, which is an affiliate of the Spalding County Collaborative and others. Interviewers on the project include: John Cruickshank, librarian at UGA-Griffin Campus Library; Jewel Walker-Harps, President of the Griffin, GA Branch of the NAACP; Art Cain, coordinator of Continuing Education for UGA-Griffin; Be-Atrice Cunningham, project manager for College of Agricultural and Environmental Science for Griffin; and Ellen Bauske, senior public service associate at the Georgia Center for Urban Agriculture in Griffin. Rich Braman was the sound engineer for this project. <br />The Griffin African American Oral History Project intends to document the experiences of people who lived in Fairmont Community in Griffin, Georgia during the civil rights era and through its transformation to the present day.<br /><br />All interviews in this collection have been indexed in OHMS.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-2018
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL418GAA
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Griffin, Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Griffin, Georgia
Duration
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71 minutes
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL418GAA-013/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2017-04-25
Interview with Love Maddox, April 25, 2017
RBRL418GAA-013
71 minutes
RBRL418GAA
Griffin African American Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Love Maddox
Jewel Walker-Harps
Be-Atrice Cunningham
Art Cain
John Cruickshank
1:|21(11)|35(12)|51(12)|62(13)|70(11)|78(5)|93(2)|106(5)|117(7)|126(1)|136(8)|156(10)|168(5)|199(10)|216(12)|234(7)|270(7)|277(2)|293(3)|308(2)|323(2)|332(6)|343(11)|356(11)|364(6)|385(3)|391(3)|396(10)|409(4)|416(2)|424(2)|441(2)|456(11)|480(3)|509(2)|521(11)|532(5)|538(14)|552(6)|575(8)|590(10)|612(5)|620(5)|637(7)|646(3)|664(12)|681(6)|695(14)|710(1)|730(3)|741(4)|756(10)|775(4)|797(5)|804(2)|816(2)|823(11)|842(5)|865(11)|896(6)|909(6)|933(11)|969(7)|984(9)|992(10)|1011(2)|1028(4)|1046(8)|1063(5)|1075(12)
Kaltura
audio
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139
Joining the police force
Before we get off into talking ...
Love Maddox talks about his impressions of police as a child growing up in Griffin, Georgia and his decision to become one of the first African American policeman in Griffin. Maddox describes some of the subtle cues that made him feel unwelcome in the police force. Maddox shares how he was not limited in who he could arrest despite contradictory rules around the area.
arrests;Griffin, Georgia;police
632
Difficulties in policing
Well he said, "if you're a police...
Maddox explains how he faced discrimination from both Blacks and whites as an African American policeman during the 1960's. Maddox shares how he was often called racial slurs while on the job by both Blacks and whites.
arrests;discrimination
1082
Discrimination / Career sabotage attempts
I would ask them...
Maddox recalls how ignoring the racial slurs often worked in stopping the name-calling. Maddox shares that there were few Blacks in other positions of public service. Maddox talks about his experience in police academy, and shares some of the methods of sabotage used by others to ruin his career.
discrimination;police academy;racial slurs
1492
Interactions with the Ku Klux Klan
I was laying on the sofa...
Maddox talks about some of the other experiences he had with facing discrimination while on the police force. Maddox relates some of his interactions with the Ku Klux Klan.
fighting;KKK;policing
1866
Interactions with Ku Klux Klan (KKK) / Retaliation by the Black community
Were you on the force when...
Maddox shares his recollection of further interactions with the Ku Klux Klan. Maddox explains how he believes Black community leaders in Griffin actively worked against his presence in the community.
community leaders;Griffin, Georgia;Ku Klux Klan (KKK)
2352
Retaliation by the Black community (cont.)
He had voice enough ...
Maddox continues to describe the influence that some Black leaders in the Griffin community had on the his police work. Maddox relates some of the difficulties and fear he faced as a Black policeman during the 1960's. Maddox shares how he often experienced more trouble from the African American community as opposed to the white community.
community;discrimination;policing
2839
The set-up
I'm still puzzled by who was setting up...
Maddox continues describing the raid attempt which was perpetuated as an attempt to sabotage his career. Maddox shares how the set-up fell through, and how it effected his career and perception of the African American community of Griffin.
set-up;Tom Simpson
3290
Policing in Atlanta
I wanna be chief ...
Maddox recalls how he shared his desire to become chief in Griffin. Maddox shares how he became a policeman in Atlanta. Maddox describes the intense racial climate of his experience as a policeman in Atlanta, which he claims stemmed almost entirely from the Black community.
African American community;Atlanta, Georgia;B.J Jackson;Griffin, Georgia
3761
Becoming a policeman
You were into the police force...
Maddox talks about his police training experience in the early 1960's. Maddox shares that most of his learning took place on the job despite his training in the police academy. Maddox shares why he believes he got the job.
Police Academy;training
Oral history
RBRL418GAA-013_Maddox JEWEL WALKER-HARPS:Good afternoon. I'm Jewel Walker-Harps, President of the Griffin branch NAACP, and this is Griffin African American Oral History Project. We have with us today the first -- one of the first African American policemen in Griffin -- in Georgia, who's going to tell us his story. We have at the table doing our interview... BEATRICE CUNNINGHAM:Beatrice Cunningham. ART CAIN:Art Cain. JOHN CRUICKSHANK:John Cruickshank. LOVE MADDOX:Love Maddox. WALKER-HARPS:And Love Maddox. We're delighted to have Mr. Maddox. We are interested in your story, as you want to tell it. If we do not ask you something, and you feel that it is important to share with us, we want you to be comfortable in sharing it. If we ask you something and you don't remember, because we're talking about quite a few years back, just let us know that you don't remember, or you're not certain, and we'll move on to the next question. Everybody around the table will have an opportunity to answer -- to ask you questions. And we understand that you have sort of a hearing impairment, so if we ask you something and you don't quite understand, just feel free to ask us -- MADDOX:I will. WALKER-HARPS:-- to repeat, and we will be happy to do that. So, with that said, we want to also inform you that the final product that we produce today will go to the University of Georgia in Athens to be processed, will be catalogued, and whatever is necessary to prepare it to go in the Richard B. Russell Library, and any other archival sites that are deemed important at that time. So it's not just a local project, but it's a project for the university system, and one that we hope will last for the duration of time so that your children, your grandchildren, your great-grandchildren will be able to know what life was like for you as a policeman in Griffin, Georgia. Now, we're going to start with our questions. CUNNINGHAM:Sure. And before we get off into talking about your career as a policeman, let's get a sense of what your life was like growing up as a child. Can you tell us a little about where you were born and what life was like as a child? MADDOX:Yes. I was born here in Griffin, Georgia, quite a few years ago, (laughter) and... But as a kid growing up, I didn't like police -- CUNNINGHAM:Okay. MADDOX:-- 'cause I had a lot of bad encounters with them as a child. And... But, you know, as you grow older, you think more clearly, and the job that they were doing was one that was necessary at that time. But at a child, you're looking at it in a different light, and... So -- but I never had no idea I will become a police. (laughter) That was the furthest thing from my mind. WALKER-HARPS:What really changed your mind? How and why did you become a policeman? MADDOX:Well, I got married, and I was working at a job in Atlanta that wasn't paying as much as I would've been getting as a policeman. And I had a brother-in-law -- maybe we'll clear that up now -- I had a brother-in-law that were working for the Police Department at the time, and a word put in to the chief from him. So I was asked to come by, and they questioned me about a few things. And one of the main things they were looking for, had I ever been fired from a job. And the answer to that question, well, yes. I think it kind of surprised them that I would admit to it, but I also know that if you don't they got a way of finding out. So I think that's what changed their mind about hiring me at the time. So they set a date for me to come in and everything, and I start... Believe it or not, I started on a Sunday. I remember that. I started on a Sunday. And I was accepted, let's say, with mixed emotion, because... I don't really know how to put this. Nothing was said to me directly when I got there, but you could tell that you don't -- I don't like to try to read people's mind, either -- that there were some there that didn't appreciate me being there. We'll put it like that. But after a while, everything kinda smoothed itself out, and we all start working together. But I never heard them refer to me as anything other than Love. CAIN:When you joined the police force, when you joined the police force, how many other African Americans were on the force at the time? MADDOX:How many...? CAIN:How many other African Americans were on -- MADDOX:Uh... (pause) I'm gonna be honest with you: I believe it was four, five others. I can't say that's what it was, but I believe it was. I believe it was five others. CAIN:I'm always interested in sort of the culture, when you join an organization, and you made reference just now to maybe not being totally accepted when you got there. Could you tell us a little bit about just how you felt and why you maybe felt that way? MADDOX: Well, you go by... I -- let me see, I don't say... I go by the way people act towards me when I speak to them, anything like that. And some of the response were very cold. I put it -- put it like that. But, like I say, other than that, everything was all right. WALKER-HARPS:In other words, you were not referred to as "boy." MADDOX:Hmm? WALKER-HARPS:You were not referred to as "boy." MADDOX:No, not by my fellow officers, black or white. I was never referred to as "black," or "black boy," or "nigger," either one. I never was referred to that. That came about after I went out in the streets. CUNNINGHAM:So was there a difference in the way the black community versus the white community treated you as a police officer? I mean, did they respect you as a police officer, both communities? MADDOX:Not at first. They really didn't. They really didn't. And, I mean, by the black either. I wasn't really accepted. And, you know, I might as well tell it like it is, but, as I've said, as time passed things moved itself out. I'll put it that way, that we all gelled, like, came together, you know. CAIN:Well, I know, for example, just taking off on Beatrice's question, when there was integration in the Atlanta police force, late '40s, early '50s, African American policemen, for example, could not arrest white citizens. Did you run into any kind of issues like that? MADDOX:Okay, I understand what you're saying, but I'm considered in the top ten for black policemen being hired in Griffin. So I didn't encounter that, you know, I couldn't arrest this person. Because one thing, I got a big mouth, and I asked the chief, who was Chief Blackwell at the time, about that. And he told me -- I got to give him credit: he was a fair man, far as I was concerned. And that's what he told me: he -- excuse the imitation, but I have to do it this way -- he said, "Love?" I said, "Yes, Chief." "You a police?" I said, "Yes." "Don't people out there doin' wrong?" I said, "I guess they're like that." "Well," he said, "if you're police, you arrest 'em all. You arrest anybody." So that's what... I mean, but now I won't speak for the people before me, because I can't prove it. But I didn't have any problem arresting either black or white. WALKER-HARPS:So what you're saying, actually there were others -- there were other African Americans prior to your being hired. You were not actually the first, so you would not have had the original experience. MADDOX:I'm not quite -- WALKER-HARPS:Let me make -- let me -- MADDOX:I'm not quite getting that. WALKER-HARPS:There were others who may have had a more difficult time than you, who perhaps opened the door for you. MADDOX:Right. Yeah, right. WALKER-HARPS:And I ask that because I have heard some of those who were earlier than you say that they were not allowed to arrest whites. They were only allowed to arrest blacks. So by the time you became a policeman, then the condition had softened somewhat, to allow you to do -- or you had a chief who had a heart and wanted to do the right thing. MADDOX:It mattered then, but then, like I said, I didn't have any problem in that line, making arrests, black or white. WALKER-HARPS:Any incidents with whites who were arrested by a black policeman? Were there any incidents, anything happen, or any encounters that you remember as you made your arrest, that...? MADDOX:Oh, now, I wasn't accepted by either one of 'em. (laughter) I wasn't accepted by the black or white when you make an arrest, you know. But I would like to say this: I was more tested physically by the black than I was by the white, you know. They -- the black wanted to have a physical encounter, you know. And the white probably didn't like it. I don't know whether they did or not, but they went along with the arrest, and that -- their children didn't like it, either. That's all. CUNNINGHAM:Can you give us a sense of when you started? MADDOX:Beg your pardon? CUNNINGHAM:In -- when did you start working for the police force? MADDOX:Oh, I started in... What did -- when did I start? Oh... CUNNINGHAM:Just around what decade? MADDOX:Now, I've been retired here since 2001, (laughs) from law enforcement. I don't know. It was in the -- WALKER-HARPS:In the '60s, right? MADDOX:It was in the '60s. CUNNINGHAM:Okay. MADDOX:I -- if I'm not mistaken, it was in the '60s. Yeah, yeah. CUNNINGHAM:Okay. Well, did you notice a difference in even the pay rate? Were you, as a black police officer, paid less than your white counterparts? MADDOX:I'm gonna be honest with you about that: if it was, I didn't know it. CUNNINGHAM:Okay. MADDOX:I didn't know it. But I tell you this: I might be getting ahead of everything, but they had schools that you go to -- CUNNINGHAM:Right. MADDOX:-- and when you finished that course, your rate -- your pay would raise $50 -- CUNNINGHAM:Okay. MADDOX:-- a month. And I went the full school. So I got $200 more added to my salary, you know. But other than my pay, different from his pay, I don't -- that I didn't -- I never would've known that. CUNNINGHAM:Okay. WALKER-HARPS:Were there negative remarks made to you? Were there negative remarks, ugly things said to you, by either whites or blacks? MADDOX:Negative remarks? WALKER-HARPS:Mm-hmm. MADDOX:Oh, yeah, I got a lot of those. Yeah. And that's where... That's where the "nigger" came in. I was referred to as "nigger" by a white arrest (unintelligible). And, well, I learned to deal with that from my mother and father. You know, you're not one, so why worry about it, you know, though? But I did run into that with them, but that's not with all of 'em. I never judged one person by everybody. You know, each one get its own blame, you know. That's the way it was. CRUICKSHANK:So did you just completely ignore the remarks, or how did you handle it? MADDOX:Beg your pardon? CRUICKSHANK:Did you completely ignore the name-calling, or how did you handle it? MADDOX:I'm not quite clear -- WALKER-HARPS:How did you handle the name-calling? What did you do in response when you were called a name that was not your name? MADDOX:Oh, oh, what -- WALKER-HARPS:How did you handle it? MADDOX:-- how I reacted? CRUICKSHANK:Mm-hmm. MADDOX:Oh, I... (laughs) I did like it never was said and went on with the arrest, you know. You know... CUNNINGHAM:Well, you just mentioned that you learned from your parents how to deal with being called a name that doesn't match -- MADDOX:Yeah. CUNNINGHAM:-- who you are. MADDOX:Yeah. CUNNINGHAM:Tell us more about your parents, and your siblings, if you have any. MADDOX:Well, they deceased now -- CUNNINGHAM:Okay. MADDOX:-- but I had some parents that -- they believe in the switch. (laughter) If you know what I mean, you know. And when I say believe in the switch, I mean three of 'em, platted. And they would tell us, tell all of us -- 'cause I had a brother; he was stone crazy, you know, I mean, just to put it honestly, 'cause he didn't care what you called him; he was ready to do it, you know. But they told us that names... If they didn't call you Love, they didn't call your name, you know. So I took that to the job with me, you know, and -- 'cause I have had accidents to happen, people witness, and that's all that was said, you know, "That nigger this," "That he -- that nigger that," you know. And I will ask them, "Let's me go and talk to this person and see what they have to say," you know, and he -- the guy -- the -- well, I won't say guy, but the fella, he noticed that I wasn't responding to what he was saying, so would you believe in a few minutes he stopped? CUNNINGHAM:Hmm. MADDOX:And he started saying "that guy," you know. It's the way they handle things, and people come into it, you know. WALKER-HARPS:Was it difficult to get black policemen hired, even though you were not, maybe, the first, but you were in that bracket of first man hired? MADDOX:Yeah -- WALKER-HARPS:Did they volunteer to hire you, or did they hire you as a result of community pressure? MADDOX:They volunteer to call you what? WALKER-HARPS:Did they volunteer to hire blacks as policemen, or were they pressured into doing it? MADDOX:I really can't say. I can't say, and I don't like to say things that I can't prove, you know. And I don't know whether they were pressured into doing it or what, that... I know they had one white police -- I don't know whether you remember -- called Bradley Davis. Old-timer. And he used to say he had been trying to get 'em to hire blacks. I don't know how true that was or not, but that's what he was -- that's what he was saying. So I don't -- I can't say whether they were pressured into doing it or they just thought it was time to do it. WALKER-HARPS: Were there any other black public officials at that time that you know about? MADDOX:Where there what? WALKER-HARPS:Where there any other black public officials that you knew about? There weren't any black firemen or black...? I know there were black teachers, but were there blacks in any other public service areas that you knew about? MADDOX:No. No, I know the ranking part in there was -- were low, you know. I mean, we wasn't ranking as much as some, that we were a little bit more sharper were -- than they were. And -- but other than that, I don't know. WALKER-HARPS:When you say "sharp," what do you mean? MADDOX: Well, I never did an accident report before, but the thing about it: I could read. You know, that made a difference. And doing that, I was able to make my first rec report out by myself, and (unintelligible), 'cause I was real proud of it, you know, with the drawing and everything. And so the fella -- I'm not gonna say what this fella wore, whether they're black or white, but I'm gonna say that my partner at the time, he said, "I've been trying that for a long time, you know." And I said, "What?" He said, "Make out a rec report?" I said, "Yeah." He said -- I said, "Nothing to it." I said, "You see what going on, then put it down," you know. "And each person got to tell what happened. If you number one, that mean you at fault. You number two, you the one got hurt, you know. As simple as that." WALKER-HARPS:Did you have to take a test to get the job? MADDOX:No, I didn't. I didn't. But I had to go to the police academy. I did. I had to go to the police academy. That was... That was, I think, about three months after I had been in there, and we had to go to that. And you had to pass the police academy, because when you came back you would've been fired. WALKER-HARPS:Were there accusations made against you that were false that could've gotten you into trouble while you were a policeman? Did you have people lying on you, so to speak, so that had some bearing on your job -- MADDOX:Lying? WALKER-HARPS:Yes. MADDOX:Oh, yeah, I had plenty of those. I had plenty of those. Tell you about... I know -- my partner and I, we were patrolling one afternoon, and so we were getting off something like 3:30. We went in, and they got all these other police that ran out to the car and said, "Y'all under arrest." I said, "What?" You know, I'm thinking it's a joke. And the guy said, "This is no joke." Said, "You under arrest." I said, "Somebody gonna have to tell me something." You know, so one of 'em finally said, "We just got a report that you and your partner riding down the street drinking beer." This is true. I said, "Drinking beer?" So just so happened we didn't throw the cans away. We were drinking, but we didn't throw the cans away. So I took out my Pepsi-Cola can, and the other guy took out his Pepsi-Cola can. I said, "This what they call beer." I said, "Well, you -- we're under arrest." Now, people do that. They do that. I had... I hope I'm not jumping the gun on you, but I even had a lady to call my house and tell my wife I was with her. And I was laying on the sofa. And (laughs) I love my wife to today. She played it cool. She didn't -- she never said I was there. And she just pumped that lady, got all the (laughter) information out of her she wanted to. But I just say that to show you, people will do things to try to hurt you, you know. I've been -- I also been hurt physically. I have. So that -- it will happen. It will happen. WALKER-HARPS:Was that in relation to your job, or was it something else? MADDOX:Beg...? WALKER-HARPS:Your being hurt physically. MADDOX:This were pertaining to the job. WALKER-HARPS:Really? MADDOX:Yeah. WALKER-HARPS:Would you tell us about it? As much as you can remember. MADDOX:You got a 82-year-old man, (laughter) reaching way back. But anyway, we... I had a partner, and I'm gonna call this fella's name, because him and I, we rode together more than any... His name was... Uh-oh, Gile. And he loved to fight. And I didn't. I will fight, but I didn't love to fight. But anyway, we got into a physical altercation one night. I got bounced around a little bit, and we just laughed about it, but that's what I was saying about -- you can get physically hurt out there, and I had a shotgun drawn on me, and it was loaded. I mean, you run into some things out there you wouldn't believe, you really wouldn't believe that people would do, and then they complain about it. They complain about it. And a fella cut a lady's throat, called me to come get him. Now, that's true. He call me to arrest him. But he act as though he didn't do anything. And I'm -- the lady at the hospital with her neck open. No. So, as I said, people, they do a lot of things out there, and they blame the police for it. No. And all police is, it would get to it, is not bad. They're not bad. Some try to help you, and people won't let them help you, so... WALKER-HARPS:Were you fortunate enough to ever run into the Ku Klux Klan? MADDOX:The what? WALKER-HARPS:Were you fortunate enough to ever run into or have an encounter with the Klan? With the KKK? MADDOX:(laughs) Oh, yeah, but when they had that rai-- they had that mass... What they... Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. When they had that march in Griffin that time -- I don't know if you remember that or not -- but anyway, I mean, everybody congregated -- that's what it seemed to me -- in Griffin, right there at the old courthouse, you know. And they -- and you said the KKK? (laughs) They were there also. But after all the blacks start coming in, they start moving out, moving out. But, I mean, directly being -- well, I don't know how you put this -- confronted, or have anything with them? I have to say no. I have to say no. 'Cause most times they -- their motto I heard one say, "If you don't bother me, we don't bother you." Now, I don't know how true that is or not, but I did hear that, you know. "If you don't do anything, I won't bother you, but if you do, I will." You know, I -- that's one thing about it. My motto with this: if I asked you to do something, and you didn't do it, I'm gonna arrest you. I'm gonna arrest you through going to jail or giving you a citation, but you're gonna get one of the two. Because if I thought enough to ask you to do it, and not tell you to do it, and you respond negative, you got to go. You have to go. WALKER-HARPS:Were you on the force when the KKK burned the crosses in front of the head's house or business? MADDOX:Uh... (pause) I remember that, but... Let me say this: certain things happened. We were put on other details. You see what -- you understand what I'm saying? WALKER-HARPS:Yes, yes. MADDOX:And so that's the only way I can put that, Ms. Harps. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. So you would not have been directly involved, and it would have been arranged that way so that you would not have had an encounter with them. MADDOX:No, no. WALKER-HARPS: That's interesting. CAIN:You remember about what year, what years those were, where they had that march that you just referred to? MADDOX:You have to pick it up a little. CAIN:I'm sorry. You remember about what year it was, or what years it was, when that march happened, and you had whatever encounters with the Ku Klux Klan that you had? MADDOX:It was in the... I believe it was in the -- I believe it was in the '60s, beginning of the '70s. I'm not for sure. I'm not for sure. WALKER-HARPS:Were there community organizations that were active during the time that the first black policemen were on the force? Was that during the era of Reverend Socksure, or was it Gary Reid, or who were the people out front in the community leading the efforts to get equality for black people at that time? Who were some of those persons? MADDOX:(pause) Read me that again. WALKER-HARPS:Who were some of the leaders, community leaders, during the time that you were on the police force? Who were some of the persons who were behind the scenes, perhaps in the churches or in the community, that were out there trying to make things happen? MADDOX:For -- WALKER-HARPS:Were there -- did you have at that time an NAACP? MADDOX:Are you saying for the police, or -- WALKER-HARPS:No, in general. Just in general. MADDOX:In general? CUNNINGHAM:Mm-hmm. MADDOX: (pause) I -- WALKER-HARPS:You don't know. MADDOX:I don't know. WALKER-HARPS:You don't know. MADDOX:No, no. WALKER-HARPS:So it sounds like you had a pretty good life. (laughter) MADDOX:No -- WALKER-HARPS:A pretty free, a pretty f-- MADDOX:-- no, no. Well, be honest with you, you know I was only there five years, in Griffin, and my other 30 years was in Atlanta, with the postal inspector -- WALKER-HARPS:Oh, okay. MADDOX:-- service. And I worked with them. So what happened... (laughs) What happened is it happened in that short span of time, but I felt, though, while in Griffin, the black leaders, as you call 'em, they wasn't behind us. WALKER-HARPS:Really? MADDOX:That's right, and if they was here today, I'd say the same thing. I'll tell you why I'm saying it. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:Because I made an arrest on a kid for speeding, and the kid's father would've been a higher-up in Griffin. And this -- the black leaders set me up. WALKER-HARPS:Really? MADDOX:I'm gonna tell you what I know. Tell you what I know. But the thing about it, it didn't work out like they thought it was gonna work, 'cause what it was, it was supposed to bring the black community against me. But there were some that didn't. And something happened -- I'll tell you it was at the VFW (inaudible) -- I never will forget that, because that hurt me to my heart. I... What they did, they raided the VFW. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:Now, I didn't know anything about it, but I noticed where they told me to stay that particular night, they wouldn't let no other police communicate with me. And I thought it was strange, you know. I'm right here in town. I can't go from this corner to that corner. That's true. And after a while a car pulled up and said, "Get in." So you don't question. You got a police car, they say, "Get in," you get in. You know, you don't question it. And they headed straight for the VFW. And I asked, I said, "What's going on." And the guy told me, just like they say, "You will find out in a few minutes." Sure did. But they went in there. They took out, or taken out, all the alcohol beverages and everything, taken it away. And I notice the so-called black leaders were behind this, 'cause, you know, most of 'em was head of the VFW. And so they set it up through him. But the thing about it, in three or four days, all this alcohol stuff went back to the VFW. And one of the officers took it on themself to tell me what went down. He said, "This was supposed to bring the community against you." I said, "For what?" And then he told me about that arrest. WALKER-HARPS:That was -- in other words, that was retaliation against you having had the nerve to arrest somebody who was considered to be of high standing in the community? MADDOX:Say what now? WALKER-HARPS:Was that -- do you feel that that was a way of getting back at you for having arrested somebody who was considered to be important in the community? MADDOX:I don't feel; I know. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:That's what... 'Cause after that arrest, things started changing. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:This person had... He had voice enough to tell people of the police department what to do. And he was not the commissioner. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:You know. And -- CAIN:Can you... Can you identify, or can you say who that was? Can you say who that was? Can you identify? WALKER-HARPS:Do you remember who it was? MADDOX:Yeah, I know. I know who it was. (laughter) Yeah. You know, you don't forget people who do you wrong. At least, I don't. And that was Goldstein. I don't know whether you know Goldstein. His son had a habit of driving through town, 50 or 60 miles an hour, and, you know, that is too fast for anybody. And -- but at the time I arrested him, I didn't even know whose son he was. I didn't know, until he told me. And he told me just like this. He said, "Give me the ticket. My daddy will deal with you." So I went to his daddy and told him I gave him a ticket. WALKER-HARPS:You had a lot of nerve, didn't you? MADDOX:Huh? WALKER-HARPS:You had a lot of nerve. MADDOX:No, I didn't have a lot... It's not so much I had nerve; I just -- I had to be threatened. You know, if we're gonna do something, let's do it. You don't have to threaten me. And that's what I feel, though: the kid threatened me, so I went to see did the father stand behind it. That's basically why I went. You know, it wasn't that I was showing any kind of other -- any kind of nothing, other than that. And he was standing behind his son. So... But then it worked out. Then it worked out. CAIN:I'm not quite clear how they were gonna set you up at the VFW. I think it was a setup in some kind of way, and they got you in the car; they took you to the VFW. What were they trying to do to set you up there? MADDOX:That was it. That was it. The raid on the VFW was supposed to have been my idea. WALKER-HARPS:Oh, okay. MADDOX:To raid it. CAIN:Okay. WALKER-HARPS:But it was not. It was the Goldsteins' idea. MADDOX:That's who it was. WALKER-HARPS:And Goldstein was white, and, if I remember correctly, had a lot of dealings in the black community. MADDOX:Yeah, yeah. I -- if I may, I'll tell you something else about people, also. I have had people -- now this -- to me, this sounds... I guess I -- can I say stupid? It sounds stupid, that you see somebody, like, in the morning. Say I see you, and not knowing you, but I speak. That evening, you run a stop sign, and I see you, I'll stop you. You look at me and said, "I spoke to you this morning." (laughter) (pause) Now, you see where I'm coming from? That they think because you speak to them that they're immune from whatever you got to do. But I'll speak to anybody. I'll speak with anybody. And they want to give you things. They want to give you things. And if you said something to 'em later, "I gave you such-and-such a thing," they're gonna throw that up in your face, you know. So what I do, I don't accept it. I don't accept it. WALKER-HARPS:Did you find that more common with black folk than white folk, or about the same? MADDOX:With both. WALKER-HARPS:With both. MADDOX:With both. With both. CUNNINGHAM:Well, being a policeman is a dangerous occupation, period, but did you find that you felt more endangered just because you were black, and then you were a policeman during the '60s, at the height of the Civil Rights Movement? MADDOX:Well, I did, I did. I felt like it. I really did. And tell you about an incident that happened, other than the one I was telling you about earlier, that we had another encounter, me and this officer who liked to fight, and he give me more trouble than enough. And I came home. My shirt was bloody, and, I mean, I was full of blood. My wife looked at me and said, "What happened to you?" And I thought maybe she could've responded a little better than that, (laughter) so I didn't say anything to her, period. I just went in there, washed off, put another shirt on, went back out in the car, went on back to work. But they -- like I said, they do try to hurt you. They try to hurt you. And they will kill you, too. And I don't want nobody think they won't. People are not afraid of police like they used to. They're not afraid of 'em, you know. (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- WALKER-HARPS:So you had as much trouble with blacks as you had with whites. MADDOX:I had more trouble. You know, to just tell it -- be frank with you, I had more trouble. WALKER-HARPS:Because they expected more from you. MADDOX:Beg pardon? WALKER-HARPS:Was it because they expected more from you? MADDOX:Well, they expect to do things, and you do nothing. You see, that's what they was expecting. And that wasn't me. That wasn't me, you know. WALKER-HARPS:Did you not -- was the black community aware of the situation with Mr. Goldstein? And if they were, did they not stand behind you in saying that what you did was the right thing to do? Or -- MADDOX:No -- WALKER-HARPS:-- they were silent about...? MADDOX:Oh, I don't think they did. I really don't think they did. You know, all this stuff happened almost at midnight. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:Sure did. I was about ready to get off. And that's when I know something was wrong, you know. That they come take you off the post, put you in a car, and don't even tell you where you're going. WALKER-HARPS:So I'm with Art: I'm still puzzled by who was setting up -- who was actually doing the setup. MADDOX:Doing what? WALKER-HARPS:I'm a little puzzled in terms of who was actually doing the setup. The policemen were working with the Goldsteins. MADDOX:I'm trying to fig-- I'm trying to understand what you're saying. WALKER-HARPS:I guess I'm trying to figure out who actually... The retaliation was from the Goldsteins, but did the people who were at the VFW club know about the incident with the young man? MADDOX:Okay, okay. I might've didn't explain that clear, although I said he spoke, police listened. But he didn't have anything... Or, forget about it. He didn't have anything to do with the person who was notified. He didn't notify him. He was notified through the Police Department, this person was, that was in charge of the VFW. WALKER-HARPS:Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So you had policemen working with people out there in the community -- MADDOX:No, this was one of your top citizens. WALKER-HARPS:Okay, yes, yes. Yes, you -- I've heard that name a lot. I've heard that name a lot. MADDOX:What? WALKER-HARPS:I have heard the name a lot, in -- MADDOX:You have? WALKER-HARPS:Yes. MADDOX:What? Which one? Goldstein, or -- WALKER-HARPS:Yes, yes. MADDOX:Yeah. But, see, the person who was... I'm sorry, but I won't call that name. I -- let me tell you why I won't: because this person still has living relatives, and him and I real good friends. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. Okay. Well, anybody who happens to read this, and who has any inkling of the history during that time, knows who the people were at the VFW during that period of time -- MADDOX:I knew everybody who was involved. I know everybody who was involved in it. It doesn't take long. It doesn't take long. 'Cause people talk. People talk, you know. This one go home and he tell his wife something. This one go home and tell his something, and she go talk. She go say, "Do you know such-and-such?" My wife even said -- let me tell you what she said to me. She say, "So you have to go over there to the VFW and take their liquor?" Sure did. WALKER-HARPS:So you were falsely accused. MADDOX:I just looked at 'em and said, "You just don't understand." Yeah. Here I am, I'm crying, 'cause I'm hurt. Not from what she said, but what was happening to me, and I couldn't do anything about it. WALKER-HARPS:And nobody else stepped up to the plate to do anything about it. MADDOX:And I was looking for not sympathy from her, but some kind of understanding, you know. If you don't understand what I'm going through, just don't do nothing. Don't say nothing. Because she's running the wrong direction. WALKER-HARPS:I would've expected help from the community. Did you not expect help from the community? MADDOX:Did I expect...? WALKER-HARPS:Did you expect the community to help you? Did you expect anybody in the community to understand and to come to your defense? MADDOX:No, I didn't. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:I didn't. I've been carrying this -- you know, you hear people say "baggage," don't carry the baggage? And I've been carrying this for years. And this the first time I said anything about it. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:I never said anything about it. CAIN:How did it ultimately resolve itself? How did it turn -- how did you get out of some of that trap? MADDOX:Well, it didn't work out like they thought, because they were looking for me to... They were looking for the community to smother me, and I don't mean with love. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:But it didn't happen that way. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:Because, like I'm telling you, I told them. But I use other terms. I curse sometimes. And that's what I did. I'm gonna be honest with you, you know. I told him to get out of my you-know-what face, and I don't want to hear nothing about it. And they thought that I would be fired. That's basically what it was. They thought I would be fired, but it didn't work out that way. And you probably heard me earlier talk about the chief? WALKER-HARPS:Yes. MADDOX:Chief Blackwell? WALKER-HARPS:Yes. MADDOX:Now, others had words not too... I don't know how you put it, but let me put it... My words for him were this: he was a man. Regardless of how he felt about me, or any other black, to me, he was a man. And he told me -- he called us all in his office, all the black officers within his office, and he talked to us, and he asked each one of us what we like to do. And, me, told him, "I want to be chief." The meeting was over. WALKER-HARPS: Because of your answer? Because you wanted to be chief? MADDOX:I don't know. I don't know to this day why, but that's what I said. If you ask me what I want to be, I want to be the chief. That's the (unintelligible), you know. (laughs) And after that, he'd say the meeting was over. WALKER-HARPS:(pause) Well... Is there anything else about your career, either as a policeman or anything else significant in the community, that you would like to share with us? MADDOX:I could say one thing about being a policeman here in Griffin: it helped me get the job in Atlanta. It did. It helped me get the job in Atlanta, 'cause that job working -- at the time, the Postal Service was organizing a police force, and so the postmaster, he'd taken a liking to me for some reason, and he told his wife to tell me to come down there and talk with him. And believe me, I hate it to this day: I can't remember his name. But what he had -- what he did, he asked me would I like to leave. I told him yeah. And he said, "Give me three days and I'll get back with you." So in three days he did. He said, "Somebody will be contacting you in about a week." In about a week, a postal inspector came down and interviewed me. And two weeks after that, I was hired to that job in Atlanta, which I stayed for 30 years, and retired. WALKER-HARPS:Did you find the racial climate in Atlanta to be different from what it was here? MADDOX:(laughs) I... WALKER-HARPS:Were you treated differently from what you were treated in Griffin? MADDOX:Oh, I tell you the truth, I wanted to come back to Griffin. (laughter) WALKER-HARPS:It was worse? MADDOX:That's how bad it was when I first got there. I wanted to -- I'm serious! I wanted to come back to Griffin. WALKER-HARPS:How could it have been worse? MADDOX: It was worse, believe me. And all this... (laughs) And all this is coming from black. WALKER-HARPS:Tell me a little bit more. I'm interested in that. How -- why would you say it's all coming from blacks? What -- MADDOX:Because they the ones that was in charge. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:And they didn't want anyone else coming in. But, see, they didn't have any control over that, because you're being interviewed by inspectors. Are you familiar with inspectors, in the Postal Service? WALKER-HARPS:Not really, but -- CUNNINGHAM:I'm not. MADDOX:Okay. Inspectors in the Postal Service is something like the FBI, in -- out here. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:Out here. And what they do, we, as postal police, we work with them, you know. We work with them. So that's how they come about. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:Mm-hmm. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:So the people that I had problems with didn't have any pull to do anything. And what -- I'm gonna tell you basically what it was all about, because I came from the police force. So I came in with a little bit more knowledge than they had. WALKER-HARPS:Oh, okay. MADDOX:And that's what they didn't like. WALKER-HARPS:Oh, okay. MADDOX:It was more like an image thing. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. Okay. I -- now I understand. Okay. All right. MADDOX:But you're not gonna use that. (laughter) WALKER-HARPS:No, but we're gonna close, unless there's something else that somebody wants to ask or say or... CAIN:Jonathan? CRUICKSHANK: I wonder if -- have you been watching the news lately, watching about what the police are doing these days? And how do you feel about it? Are they doing a good job? The police nowadays in Atlanta. Do you keep track of what they're doing? MADDOX:To my police now? CRUICKSHANK:Yeah, the police now, today. How do you feel about what they're doing to the -- having more problems now than ever, or...? MADDOX:Well, I have mixed emotions about that, because I think some of the things they're doing they don't have to do, you know. My... My outlook on when I was police is that you help people. You know, you help people first, and then you arrest 'em. And... But other than the shooting going on, I don't... I don't go -- 'cause that's not justified. It's not justified. WALKER-HARPS:We do need, for the record, though, to know who were the other blacks on the police force when you were there. Who were the other African Americans who were policemen at the time that you were? MADDOX:That they what now? WALKER-HARPS:Who were some of the other black policemen who worked that time that you worked in Griffin? MADDOX:Oh, who were they? WALKER-HARPS:Yes. MADDOX:Now, you had... You had Chester Milmore. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:And you had -- WALKER-HARPS:B.J.? MADDOX:-- Pop Ellis. You had B.J. Jackson. Uh... (pause) Who I call? WALKER-HARPS:I think you may have called 'em all. You called B.J. Jackson -- MADDOX:Yeah, B.J. WALKER-HARPS:-- Chester Milner -- MADDOX:Chester, Pop -- WALKER-HARPS:Pop Ellis. MADDOX:Oh, Marvin -- WALKER-HARPS:Marvin Barrow. MADDOX:-- Marvin Barrow. WALKER-HARPS:I believe Marvin was one of the very, very first. MADDOX:Yeah, they were the first. WALKER-HARPS:But he's deceased now. Okay. MADDOX:Yeah, mm-hmm. And -- WALKER-HARPS:He's deceased. CAIN:I guess I... Oh, I'm sorry. I guess I do have one other question, just curious about. I'm sorry. I guess I do have one other question -- MADDOX:Go ahead. CAIN:-- that I'm curious about. You went into the police force... I'm just curious about your training, because at some point you needed to know how to handle a gun. I don't know if you had military background. You know, just tell us a little bit about the training that got you from a citizen with no law enforcement background to someone who was ready to go and work out in the community as a policeman. MADDOX:(pause) I'm trying... Trying to formulate that, but I'm not quite getting it. CAIN:Okay. When you joined the police force in the early '60s, what was your preparation? What -- how did you -- how did you get to the point where when you went to the job you were comfortable doing your job? MADDOX:Oh, okay. CAIN:What did they teach you? How did you learn about handling firearms and those kinds of things? MADDOX:I got you. I was a raw rookie. (laughter) I was just a raw rookie. Anything I was confronted, I wouldn't have had any knowledge of how to handle it, because I was put with another police officer. And that's it. That was the training. That, and I don't know whose idea it was to come up with going to the academy, but that's the best thing could've happened. That's the best thing could've happened, going to the police academy, because they teach you so much, you know. 'Cause during the raw time, I could've shot somebody. You know, you... You know, things like that. You -- and you think it justified. You might've been wrong in doing it, you know. But I -- did I answer the question? CAIN:Yeah, yeah, you said it was -- you kinda -- on-the-job training. You got there, and (overlapping dialogue; inaudible) -- MADDOX:Yeah, but I -- really and truly, I couldn't even call that on-the-job training. I really couldn't. You call -- you in a car and then, and we go do this, we go do that, you know. CAIN:Was that common? MADDOX:Hmm? CAIN:Was that common for new recruits coming in? MADDOX:I don't know was it common or not, you know, because, like I said, after that they sent us to a police academy, with somebody who could teach us the right way to do things, you know. And getting into it, I've been to two academies. I've been to the police academy, and I went to the federal government academy in Bethesda, Maryland. So I got academied out. CAIN:I hear you. (laughter) WALKER-HARPS:If you had no -- if you had -- if you did not have to have any special training, or any special skills, or any special -- to meet any special requirements, then it looks like they could've gotten anybody. So why did they get you guys, who were picked, unless there was somebody behind the scenes saying that these are good men, and they would accomplish what we want to accomplish? I don't understand what you actually brought to the table, except being a good person. And that's not really a question; that's just my feeling about your answer to the situation. MADDOX:When you first come on? WALKER-HARPS:Pardon? MADDOX: When you first? WALKER-HARPS:Yeah, I mean, it could've been me or anybody, if you did not have to have any special qualification. MADDOX:Oh, okay, okay, I understand what you're saying now. Because a lot of those are police that were on there. They didn't have any. They didn't have -- they didn't have any training, proper training. Everything for what you thought. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:You know, they didn't have any proper training. And, see, that's what I was saying: a lot of things could happen, and you thinking it's right, but it's not. WALKER-HARPS:And you guys probably had much more of a gift, in terms of -- especially since you were able to read and write -- than some of those who were already there. MADDOX:Yeah, in a sense, I believe. I think we were a little bit more prepared for it, because all us was out of school. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:We finished school -- WALKER-HARPS:Okay. MADDOX:-- you know. And (inaudible) saying it like that, because I know -- I rode with two different fellas, and they told me they only got for such-and-such a grade, and then they hired 'em at the police force, you know. So that was that. WALKER-HARPS:Yeah. So you were the best... It's almost like it was with going to school, when teachers were transferred: the best of the best. And that often placed you above those who were already there. Okay. If there are no other questions, then we're going to do our wrap-up. We certainly appreciate you, Mr. Maddox. We really -- you've done a good job for us, and we have some idea as to what life was like for you, and others who were among the first policemen. And, again -- MADDOX:And one thing I'd like to put on the end there. You know, I think everybody, regardless of what job you have, you know, be your own person. Do your own thinking. And that make things look much better. WALKER-HARPS:Okay. That helped you when you were confronted with the expectations of doing favors and whatever for persons, I'm sure. MADDOX:Oh, yeah, that... That... (laughter) I mean, we were talking a while ago that I had so many girlfriends, it was pitiful. (laughter) Now, I want you to understand what I'm saying. And I don't know any of 'em. CUNNINGHAM:Right. MADDOX:Don't... WALKER-HARPS:And many of 'em probably were just a picture of a situations and a compromising situation -- MADDOX:All you had to do was talk to a lady. They're your girlfriend. WALKER-HARPS:Well... (laughter) All right. Again, thank you. Thank you for sharing with us. MADDOX:Okay. CUNNINGHAM:Thank you, Mr. Maddox. CAIN:I say thank you -- CRUICKSHANK:Thank you. CAIN:-- very much. WALKER-HARPS:And you will hear from us later. END OF AUDIO FILE
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purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL418GAA/findingaid
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Interview with Love Maddox, April 25, 2017
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African American police
Discrimination
Race relations
Description
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Love Maddox was born in Griffin, Georgia and served as one of the first African American policemen during the integration of the Griffin community police force. Throughout his career, Maddox also served in the city of Atlanta. In this interview, Maddox talks about the opposition he faced in his work as a Black officer in Griffin, his interactions with the Ku Klux Klan, and some of his interactions with the African American community.
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Love Maddox
Jewel Walker-Harps
Be-Atrice Cunningham
Art Cain
John Cruickshank
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2017-04-25
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audio
oral histories
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sound
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RBRL418GAA-013
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Griffin, Georgia
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Griffin African American Oral History Project
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Georgia--History, Local
African Americans--History
Georgia--Communities
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The Griffin African American Oral History Project is a collaboration between the Griffin Branch NAACP, the Griffin Campus Library of the University of Georgia, and the Richard B. Russell Library. The seed was planted in the meetings of the Educational Prosperity Initiative which is also chaired by the president of the Griffin Branch NAACP, Jewel Walker-Harps. Collaborators on the project include: Griffin Housing Authority; Spalding County Collaborative; Fairmont Alumni Association; University of Georgia—Athens and Griffin campuses; and the Educational Prosperity Initiative, which is an affiliate of the Spalding County Collaborative and others. Interviewers on the project include: John Cruickshank, librarian at UGA-Griffin Campus Library; Jewel Walker-Harps, President of the Griffin, GA Branch of the NAACP; Art Cain, coordinator of Continuing Education for UGA-Griffin; Be-Atrice Cunningham, project manager for College of Agricultural and Environmental Science for Griffin; and Ellen Bauske, senior public service associate at the Georgia Center for Urban Agriculture in Griffin. Rich Braman was the sound engineer for this project. <br />The Griffin African American Oral History Project intends to document the experiences of people who lived in Fairmont Community in Griffin, Georgia during the civil rights era and through its transformation to the present day.<br /><br />All interviews in this collection have been indexed in OHMS.
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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2015-2018
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RBRL418GAA
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Griffin, Georgia
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5.4 2019-03-26 Interview with Howard Wallace, March 26, 2019 RBRL418GAA-022 67 minutes RBRL418GAA Griffin African American Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Howard Wallace Jewel Walker-Harps Art Cain John Cruickshank Rich Braman 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_jecii9vf& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_hy66gv6z" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; sandbox=" ; allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 96 Growing up in the 1930's I'm Howard Wallace and I'm a native... Howard talks about his upbringing as he was born in the 1930's, during the time of segregation. Howard explains that he had little contact with African Americans growing up. Howard explains how gerrymandering was used to increase the power of white populations after mandatory integration. mandatory integration ; West Griffin 523 The Biracial Committee How do you account for that, peaceful? Wallace talks about the ways in which a pastor in the community helped integration efforts in the city of Griffin, Georgia. Wallace recalls how the Biracial Committee was created in Griffin to spur integration efforts across the institutions of the town. Biracial Committee ; Griffin, Georgia ; integration ; St. John Episcopal Church 885 Cross burning / Joining the Army I'd be curious to know... Wallace talks about cross burnings targeted at members of the Biracial Committee of Griffin. Wallace relates stories about his time in the army during segregation. Wallace talks about further interactions he had with African Americans during his time in university Biracial Committee ; cross burning ; Ku Klux Klan (KKK) 1276 Benefits concerning Biracial Committee You think they were taught, or were .. Wallace talks about how his work in the Biracial Committee has created connections throughout the community of Griffin, Georgia. Wallace relates how African American lived in poor conditions when he was growing up in Griffin. Wallace talks about how the economic situation of African Americans has improved greatly throughout the years. Biracial Committee ; economic growth ; Griffin, Georgia 1677 Breaking racial barriers I ran into a lady the day... Wallace shares how racial barriers were slowly broken in Griffin. Wallace talks about the segregated services that were implemented while he was growing up including segregated facilities and unequal education among Blacks. education ; Horace Ward ; integration 2062 Racial aspects of education, church, and politics Can I ask a couple of questions... Wallace talks about how racist ideologies were promoted through the use of religion and in the creation of multiple private schools in Griffin. Wallace and the interviewers discuss the racial aspect of recent politics. politics ; private school ; race ; religion 2512 Political control in GA To elect a senator, you had ... Wallace talks about the unconstitutional methods of senatorial elections that were carried out in Georgia, which ultimately prevented African Americans from getting office in sections of the south. Wallace shares how gerrymandering is currently effecting the representation of political opinions throughout Georgia. Wallace shares his optimism towards the future of Griffin, Georgia. Biracial Committee ; districts ; political power ; Senator elections 2896 Works by the Biracial Committee Did you all collectively say... Wallace talks about the work done by the Biracial Committee to dispel both minor and major acts of discrimination within the African American community of Griffin. Wallace explains how being a member of the Biracial Committee effected his political career. Wallace relates how he kept his racial beliefs in respect to his parents' stance on integration. Biracial Committee ; discrimination ; Walter Jones 3425 Court Cases / Concluding thoughts Who was our track star... Wallace talks about the conduct he upholds to dispel racial inequalities. Wallace relates a mistake he made during a case he worked which had an unexpected result. attorney ; Barnesville, Georgia ; court cases ; Wyoming Tyus Oral history RBRL418GAA-022-Wallace JEWEL WALKER-HARPS: You ready? M: Mm. WALKER-HARPS: Today, March the 26th, 2019. We’re at the University of Georgia, Griffin campus, with African American Oral History Project. We have as our guest today Attorney Howard Wallace. We have interviewing him today Art Cain, John Cruickshank, Richard Braman, and myself, Jewel Walker-Harps. Now, we’re going to be doing this a little different from what we normally do in terms of allowing Howard to, what, tell us who he is, what he does, or who he has been in Griffin and to kind of tell us his story. And we [00:01:00] know that he’s not African American but we know that he had a prominent life here in Griffin. And he would have knowledge of the impact of other aspects of a community that would have had a very positive or negative impact on the life of African Americans. So, we’re just going to let him tell us what he’d like to share with us and then we will ask him questions so that he can fill in the gaps. So, now, just tell us a little bit about yourself and go right into your story, Attorney Wallace. HOWARD WALLACE: Okay, I’m Howard Wallace. I’m a native of Griffin. My father was a native of Griffin and his father was a native. We go back a long way. The old family home where my father was raised still stands precariously on Wallace Road in east Spalding County, west Butts County, right there on the line [00:02:00] and -- I-75 goes. So, we’ve been here a long time. I grew up -- I was born September the 10th, 1930, right in the heart of the Depression. My father was the probate judge. They called it then ordinary, which was -- dealt with -- it had some judicial functions but mostly it was clerical. It was for marriage licenses, things like that that -- a probate of wills, that sort of thing, was his job. And when I grew up, and I grew up sort of in the courthouse, in the public life, I was born in the house on -- am I getting too far or going too far? WALKER-HARPS: No, you’re doing -- M: (Right?), excellent. WALKER-HARPS: -- no, you’re doing -- it’s (inaudible) WALLACE: I was born in a house that still stands on Taylor Street. I don’t know (that I’d?) -- [00:03:00] 794, I think, on Taylor Street. It’s between the chicken place, Chik-fil-A and Bonanza, in that block right there. The house, you’ll notice it still stands. I was born in that house in 1930 and went -- my first school was Fourth Ward, which was virtually right around the corner. Fourth Ward then was where the police precinct is now. That was the early grammar school. In those days, the -- well, still is, I guess. This school board is a separate political entity from the city or the country. And the school board, somebody asked why did they name ’em wards. I really had no answer to that except that that was what the school board did and they just had four sections of the city and they had -- and there [00:04:00] were four wards in there: second, third, fourth, and first, I guess. And Fourth Ward was this side. What was down here, Jewel, that -- WALKER-HARPS: West Griffin? WALLACE: West Griffin, and I don’t know what ward it was in. And they always called it West Griffin. WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yes, yeah. WALLACE: It was Fourth Ward, Third Ward, West Griffin, and Northside. Those were the four grammar schools. Then, in 1937, my family moved to Maple Drive, which was an extension of 6th Street. It was a new subdivision that was being promoted by Mr. Nat Bailey and his brother and brother-in-law called Forest Hills. So, my folks moved out there and I then went to Third Ward from the second on through. There was a [00:05:00] complete segregation of schools at that time. Growing up, there were maids that came into your life in some sort of function or another but I didn’t have much contact with Afro-American people as a child. We had a maid that came. She lived on Boyds Road, (Mattie May Lemmons?). Her husband was Robert Lemmons. They later -- during the Depression, even moved to Cincinnati to find a better life up there. They had no children and so they picked up and left, which was heartbreaking to me. I was a child and Mattie May, who was a comforting, nurturing friend, that was my contact with Afro-Americans. And when she left, we -- my mother never could be satisfied with anybody [00:06:00] else. And so, thereafter, I had no contact with the relationships that we have now until I went in the Army in 1952. At that point, everything was still, of course, separated, segregated. There hadn’t been any Oklahoma School (take?) -- there hadn’t been any court case, hadn’t been anything about that. When I was -- I guess when I came back was in law school. The Oklahoma case requiring integration of the schools with all deliberate speed was enacted by the Supreme Court and immediately, the law professors -- and this has always been a problem with me, that these people were learned [00:07:00] and good people. They immediately -- was figuring out ways to circumvent the enforcement of that by -- they say, “Well, we can always draw district lines and we can” -- a few years back. And some of you might be old enough to remember the flap about the flag. There was a flag that had the Confederate -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: -- cross, what was on it. And to his credit, the governor, then, I think could agree to get rid of the flag if he could get the lottery -- I think there was a lot of politics but it went and it should have gone. But they said it was designed to honor the deeds of the Confederate -- brave people. It wasn’t at all. I was there when the guy scratched it out in the law school basement of the law school in Athens. Scratched it out. “We’ll put this bar on this flag as a -- act of defiance forever.” Had nothing to do [00:08:00] with this -- and when they came back, of course, it was all for this -- oh, bull. Just wasn’t. There was immediate attempt to circumvent this, which -- and they did, pretty well, Jewel -- and you probably can answer this. When it -- I remember when Crescent Road School was integrated. My Steve was in school then. I think my daughter, Elizabeth had probably finished before there was an actual integration. But this is some 10 years after I left law school and that thing had happened. But there was. It was a peaceful integration here in Griffin. WALKER-HARPS: How do you account for that, peaceful? WALLACE: Well, I was -- I think one thing that helped, and it might have been essential and it might have been the linchpin that made the climate that made it peaceful: at the time, [00:09:00] I was a member of St. George’s Episcopal Church and we had a rector named Ray Averett. He was an army veteran and a paratrooper and he was -- tough old bird and had a heart as big as this building. And he was concerned with what was happening. There was problems, there was the Alabama problems, there was Albany, there was all kind of terrible problems, just terrible treatment of our fellow human beings. And he could not, in good conscience, live in this community and not do something about it. So, he formed, within the church, what is called a birac-- he called it the first and only biracial committee in the city of Griffin. And we met in the Parish Hall down at the basement of St. George on Sunday afternoon. That was very controversial. But I want to tell you, I’ll [00:10:00] make an aside: from my own experience, it was an epiphany for me. It helped me -- rid of all the racial injustice that was piled into my life, just like a fish swimming in a stream. It just was the way it was when I came along. And by being a part of this and meeting on a sunny afternoon basis and sharing the anxieties, fears, ambitions that Afro-Americans had that -- it was a wonderful experience, it really was. That group met and there were others. My mother was very -- she was a very fair person but she just couldn’t fathom integration. And she said, “Well, you can go down there and you can meet with them but you don’t have to have coffee and cookies [00:11:00] with ’em!” That was the barrier that she and her whole South Carolina heritage couldn’t cope with. But we did and that spread through -- and our city manager at the time, he would send the police to take the tag numbers of the cars that were parked behind the Episcopal Church. I don’t know what -- WALKER-HARPS: I remember. WALLACE: -- he was going to do with ’em. But at any rate, Mary Fitzhugh, who was also a member, she was not on the venture but she was a member of the committee. Ginger Shappard was. Ginger met with -- there was no -- Afro-Americans could not serve on jur-- or did not. They could but they did not serve on juries at the time. There’d never been one picked for a jury. And Ginger had to go see Judge McGee and he could -- though she had some prominence in the community, her husband was a wealthy mill owner, Judge McGee didn’t give her time [00:12:00] of day and made it almost impossible to meet with them. We got nowhere with that. As an aside, there was a court order requiring everybody’s names that were eligible, of both races, all races to be placed in the jury box. What they did, and I don’t know whether you know this, Jewel, or not: they put the white people’s names on firm cardboard and the black people’s names were on paper. So, when they reached in the box -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, no, I didn’t know that. WALLACE: -- they’d reach in the box to pull ’em out, then they could say -- WALKER-HARPS: (inaudible) WALLACE: -- if they were examining court, well, that name’s in the -- well, yeah, the name’s in the box. But they had -- that was the -- right in Mr. (Lindsey’s?) office, that’s the way they pulled the jurors. The heavy ones got picked and so that whenever any Afro-American jurors -- for many, many years. WALKER-HARPS: (And who was?) -- WALLACE: That committee did a lot to quell -- because it was peopled by people that didn’t have [00:13:00] any real axe to grind, like me, Walter Jones, Jimmy (Mankin?), others. WALKER-HARPS: (Miss Crossfield?). WALLACE: Who? WALKER-HARPS: (Was -- Miss -- was Crossfield over here?)? WALLACE: Miss Crossfield was on that -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: (inaudible) her husband was on -- Bob Crossfield was on it. Bob Smalley was very -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: -- instrumental -- WALKER-HARPS: He was -- WALLACE: -- in it. WALKER-HARPS: -- helpful throughout. WALLACE: And it was -- (there?) -- I say that. I was very low person in -- far as prominence in that committee. But the committee kept things down. And when there was -- when the lunch counter at Woolworths was integrated, Mary was right there with them, you know? And nothing happened. There was never any violence, overt, for that reason. There was violence, of course. Like, we just had a conviction last year of the -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yes. WALLACE: -- two that -- the Klansmen that murdered the young man and [00:14:00] (everybody said) -- WALKER-HARPS: Coggins. WALLACE: What was his name? WALKER-HARPS: Timothy Coggins. WALLACE: (inaudible) WALKER-HARPS: Coggins. WALLACE: -- horrible, horrible crime, which was -- it really was -- when I say that it was lucky you didn’t -- now, that was the way it was in the South in those days. It was just -- WALKER-HARPS: I know, yeah. WALLACE: It just was. WALKER-HARPS: Who had crosses burned -- or the (Heads?) had crosses burned (in their?) (inaudible) WALLACE: I had a cross burned! WALKER-HARPS: -- (burden to us?). WALLACE: You knew that. (laughs) WALKER-HARPS: Well, we give praise to that committee. We give credit (to this, well?) -- WALLACE: Do you? WALKER-HARPS: -- yes, we do -- WALLACE: Do you? I -- WALKER-HARPS: -- for the stability in this community. The credit goes to that interracial community and the people who were committed to the work of that -- what they did. RICHARD BRAMAN: I’d be curious to know: you had a cross burned on your lawn. WALLACE: I did. BRAMAN: And it was a direct result of being a part of the committee, is that right? Or -- WALLACE: Well, it was a result of my law practice. I just happened to represent this man. [00:15:00] He was Mr. Copeland. He was a concrete finisher and he was going home, he had his trailer with his -- all of, you know, you see those things with the concrete tools in the back. And hard-working man and they stopped him on the way home and said he was driving under the influence. And we tried it and the sheriff , it was the witnesses against him and the jury found him not guilty. I don’t know (inaudible) BRAMAN: Was this a -- African American guy? WALLACE: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So, they felt like it was an affront to the sheriff’s department that the jury found him not guilty when they had testified that he was driving under the influence. I don’t know whether it was or not but he got a cross burned and I did, too. (laughter) BRAMAN: So, follow up on that, was the jury that found him not guilty comprised of all white jurors or were there some African American jurors (inaudible) WALLACE: Yeah, I think they were all white then. [00:16:00] That’s my recollection. I can’t remember picking Afro-American jurors until I was maybe in Clayton County, trying some combination cases up there. It was more fully integrated in Clayton. I don’t remember that specifically. It was -- (laughs) I laugh about the experience because it was funny: I was certainly disappointed in the size of the cross that they gave me. (laughter) It was about like this. (laughter) And I’m not kidding! It was no taller than this and it was made out of cross -- two by fours crossed like this, covered in burlap and then doused in gasoline or something. They were -- it was burning pretty -- but it was no bigger than this and I just -- and somebody came to the door and said, “Do you know there’s a cross burning in your yard?” I think this is Professor Hendricks across the street. I said, “No,” and I went out and picked [00:17:00] it up and threw it in the road. And they came back, (laughs) the Klan came back by sometime later and found it burning in the road and set it back up. (laughter) So, I was never frightened about anything. I saw one of the guys that did it. I saw him when he was -- his car out on Crescent Road. I’d worked with Thomas Patkin one summer. I knew him, Johnny Knowles. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: And he -- WALKER-HARPS: Everybody knew Johnny Knowles was Klan. WALLACE: (laughs) And he was one of ’em -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: -- and he was in the car that came back, said -- and he knew me! He didn’t see me but he knew the house it was. But that was such a minor incident in the whole picture of how we were getting along. I don’t think that rippled anybody’s community about that. But in the Army, I was in -- my first assignment was in the 509 Tank Battalion and [00:18:00] it was the last un-integrated unit in the United States Army. It was composed of draftees from Upstate New York that had formed this battalion and their enlistment time was up shortly after I got to that battalion and it virtually disappeared. But that was a segregated unit. All of the noncoms and the troops were Afro-American ; the officers were all white. That’s the way it was in the Army. This was up until 1952, ’53 when Truman ordered that there be no segregation in the services. But that was another -- see, that was an experience. I had none growing up in high school. Grammar school, high school, or college. The college experience was what -- we had a cook at the fraternity house. We loved her. [00:19:00] (Eldora?) was a good cook, a faithful cook. We had -- she had some help in the kitchen and we had two houseboys that picked up your clothes and made your beds and made us live like gentlemen at the university. That was -- WALKER-HARPS: You were out -- were you ahead or behind (Hamilton Holmes?) and (Charlie Hunter?)? WALLACE: Oh, I was -- they were way back. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: I mean, way after me. There was nothing like that over there then. It was just -- it was the same old de facto we’re up here, you’re down there. You can wait on us and we’ll love you for it and hope that you will reciprocate. But it was -- there was no classes together or anything like that. In Athens. Now, I did go to school for a year for my graduate work at Indiana University and there was -- WALKER-HARPS: Oh, yeah. WALLACE: -- some integration there. Not a whole lot, not as much as you would think [00:20:00] in Indiana but some. And one of the restaurants there, in Bloomington, maintained a segregated posture, even in -- that must have been 1955, was still -- so, yeah, it’s like now, Jewel, the pockets of these things all over the country that we need to get rid of. We need to -- WALKER-HARPS: Well, that’s -- WALLACE: -- get rid of it rather than fostering like we’re doing now the attitude of we want to go back to those days, when we want to go back to where it’s master and servant and that sort of thing. And it’s wrong. WALKER-HARPS: But it’s the equivalent. We -- I run into it with many cases, particularly with county government. WALLACE: Yeah, I mean, yeah -- WALKER-HARPS: (inaudible) much with city but with the county government, there’s still (inaudible) WALLACE: Still that old line -- WALKER-HARPS: -- the line, right. WALLACE: -- old line and that’s the way it -- and it’s [00:21:00] -- I don’t know whether it’s going to take generations to do it. I mean, you’d think -- I mean, I’m 88 and -- but there’s people that have been born since me that still harbor this same attitude toward it that -- it’s just -- WALKER-HARPS: You’d think they were taught or they’re being taught because the people who were actually a witness would’ve died -- WALLACE: I know that! WALKER-HARPS: (inaudible) yeah, but that -- WALLACE: That’s what I don’t -- WALKER-HARPS: -- we still see it coming out and (inaudible) WALLACE: It’s still out. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: I still see it in -- among my -- I wish they could have -- that I’m saying the experience that I had on that biracial committee, just -- it made me personally -- and my rector, I -- he came by to see me one day at home and I’m out working in the yard and he said, “You just feel so smug that you’re doing this.” And I said, “Yeah, I guess I do.” He said, “You’re just doing what you ought to be doing! You’re not doing anything heroic! You’re just doing what you ought to be doing.” And that sort of cut me down [00:22:00] but it didn’t take away the experience. And from that day, Jewel, I’ve been a -- I think I’m known as a friend in -- WALKER-HARPS: You are. WALLACE: -- both communities. WALKER-HARPS: You are. You are. WALLACE: And I’ve got friends in all of ’em and I had a problem with, a couple years ago, with probating my brother’s will in Clayton County. He’d done 1,000 wills, I guess, and in this occasion, he didn’t get it witnessed properly. And so, it was -- and we couldn’t probate the will. (laughs) And the witness that should have, that was typed in to be signed was an Afro-American that -- he just bought his business in Jonesboro, his law office. So, like, we’re doing all of this, I could see how it happened. But later on, she balked at signing it ex post facto. She said I didn’t sign it at the time and [00:23:00] my niece said, “Well, you saw it. You witnessed it.” So, she was having trouble. I said, “Let me talk to her.” So, I talked to her on the phone and she was adamant about not signing it. So, I called up Gwen Reed. I said -- WALKER-HARPS: Right. WALLACE: -- “Gwen,” (laughs) Gwen (inaudible) , I said, “Gwen, I need some help from the brotherhood.” (laughter) I said, “I don’t want this woman up there to think I’m a white honky -- I want you to help me establish some bona fides. Will you ride up to Jonesboro with me and let’s talk to this lady?” And she -- “I’d be glad to.” We had a good time. She went up there and we came in and we talked. And I don’t -- and my niece doesn’t think we’d ever gotten anything out of if Gwen hadn’t been there and I kind of feel the same way. WALKER-HARPS: So, Gwen is one of the -- person who recommended your -- WALLACE: What? WALKER-HARPS: Gwen is one of the persons who suggested -- WALLACE: Oh, did -- WALKER-HARPS: -- I talk to you, yeah. WALLACE: Oh, did she? WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: Well, [00:24:00] she’s always been a good friend. But that was a great experience. WALKER-HARPS: But you were a friend to her uncle, then her dad and whatever. So, you go way back -- WALLACE: Oh, yeah. WALKER-HARPS: -- to the -- WALLACE: I do, I do. WALKER-HARPS: -- twins, yeah. WALLACE: And I represented ’em. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, yes. WALLACE: I have -- my father represented Afro-Americans. There was -- WALKER-HARPS: (Really?)? WALLACE: -- never any reason not to. WALKER-HARPS: Bob Smalley. (Yeah?), Bob Smalley was a jewel. He was (inaudible) WALLACE: Oh, yeah. Bob was. He was not only -- he was fearless but he was intellectual and a tremendous mind. And, yeah, he did a lot in this community. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, he really did. WALLACE: And he had a lot of respect from everybody. WALKER-HARPS: We loved him. WALLACE: Would listen to Bob and it’s been a gradual thing but it’s been a -- we have -- we benefited by a lot of the things that have gone on. When I came along, the Afro-Americans lived in just terrible living conditions. They didn’t have [00:25:00] -- the maid that we had that I loved dearly that helped raise my children, she lived on the corner of 9th and is it Oak Alley through there, where the -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, there is an Oak Street that goes through there -- WALLACE: Oak Street -- WALKER-HARPS: -- down (inaudible) WALLACE: -- right there. Mr. McWilliams, the former sheriff, had some -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: -- slum properties -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yes. WALLACE: -- right there. And she lived there and she didn’t have hot water. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: She had running water but she didn’t have any hot water and was raising her family there. And we were right -- not hardly a mile away with all of the comforts of home, really. But we loved her and we took her on trips with us and -- but then, things started getting better. I think there was some economic breakthrough for the Afro-Americans that they could get, finally, some paying jobs that they could afford to have better housing and she and her [00:26:00] husband, he drove a cab, they moved out onto 2nd Street and had a nice house out there. And they -- you began to see improvement in the neighborhoods and these -- so, these -- you would not -- I don’t know how long you’ve lived in Griffin but you would not believe how just terrible -- Jewel, you know! WALKER-HARPS: I know. Edgewood and Boyd Row and -- WALLACE: Boyds Row was where -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: -- Mattie May lived -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yes. WALLACE: -- right off the street. That was bad. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: And -- but -- WALKER-HARPS: Once jobs opened up at the telephone company -- opened up for those kids who were graduating from high school, that period, got a chance to work at the telephone company. So, they had an outlet over there and they were always -- I just happen to remember the telephone company -- those who were coming out of school. WALLACE: Well, and maybe there was more integration within the textile community. I don’t know that but they were always seeking employment and, you know, and maybe there was a little bit of integration there. [00:27:00] WALKER-HARPS: When they got to do something other than just (inaudible) WALLACE: Yes. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, they (inaudible) WALLACE: Yeah, I mean, that were paying something. WALKER-HARPS: -- that did happen, yes. WALLACE: Anyway, there were -- WALKER-HARPS: On the line. WALLACE: -- it’s like a slow tide rising but I have seen it rise for the benefit of my friends that now have really decent housing at -- for the most part. And they know -- I don’t think there’s any racial difference in what’s available now in this community. There might be. Jewel might speak to that better than I can but it seems to me that anybody that wants to have a nice house and they’ve got an opportunity to work, they’re going to have a nice house. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, not based on race. Housing is trouble but it’s not based on race forever about -- WALLACE: Yeah, that’s what I mean. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: That’s what I feel. I mean, I -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yeah. WALLACE: -- don’t know, I -- that’s why I ask if you felt the same way. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: There’s a -- the courts have been integrated. I ran into a lady, day before yesterday, [00:28:00] I feel bad about this, at the grocery store and she said, “Mr. Wallace,” said, “you know who I am.” I didn’t. She said -- I should have. She said, “Who was your favorite black policeman?” Well, I said, “I guess it would be the first one.” And she said, “Well, that’s right, Marvin.” I said -- and then I knew who it was. WALKER-HARPS: Yes, okay. WALLACE: It’s Miss Barrow. It’s Marvin Barrow’s -- WALKER-HARPS: Oh, his wife, Annette -- WALLACE: -- his wife. WALKER-HARPS: Okay. WALLACE: Annette, yeah, I should’ve known her name. Anyway, had a nice (inaudible) but I did come up -- I called her Miss Barrow when we left. I didn’t -- but I could not remember Marvin to save my life to begin with. But that -- he was the first one in the police force, in -- and these barriers that -- it took a lot of courage for the people that crossed the barriers and burst the ceilings -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: -- to do it. [00:29:00] And I recommend this book to y’all if you haven’t read it. Judge Tuttle, who was a federal judge during the integration. It’s an excellent book and dissects the mind of the South. And it was about the Holmes -- Charlayne Hunter -- WALKER-HARPS: And Hamilton Holmes. M: Hamilton Holmes. WALLACE: And Hamilton Holmes. It’s virtually the story of how they got admitted to the University of Georgia against all odds. And this judge, it is a -- it’s just one of the most exciting books to read. Of course, maybe more from a lawyer standpoint to see how they were maneuvering and the writs that were being filed -- and between Macon and Athens and Atlanta and all of the maneuvering -- and this judge was standing so firm. Other judges, even on the federal bench in the South, they weren’t doing anything about it. “Can’t go to school? Oh, that’s all [00:30:00] right.” This one said, “I’m going to enforce this.” WALKER-HARPS: Horace Ward and Donna (Halliwell?) worked awfully hard. WALLACE: Oh, I know! WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: Well, Horace Ward, I tried cases with him later on in Athens for the city of Atlanta when they were expanding the airport. I remember it was devoted -- he was really nice guy. But he tried to get in law school right at -- while I was in the Army, I guess. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: And they -- this is the story and I don’t know whether it’s true or not but they said, “Well, why aren’t you in the Army? Aren’t you subject to the draft at your age?” And he said, “Well, yeah,” but said, “I’ve got a hernia.” And they said, “Well, we’ll fix that.” (laughter) And they fixed that and he was drafted, went off to the Army. So, he -- Horace never got to the University of Georgia. But what -- he was a fine, fine lawyer and fine man. But these were -- facing those things at every level. And [00:31:00] this country now, many people want to turn back to that. They want to have that power to say no and it’s bad. It’s bad. They have little things coming along that were observable. And the book, The Help, the story really turns around bathroom facilities -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, yes. WALLACE: -- for the maids. And we faced that in my house when we lived on Taylor Street. There’s one bathroom ; everybody used it. When we moved out to Maple Drive, there were three bathrooms: two upstairs and the maid’s bathroom downstairs in the basement. It was -- brand new bathroom but it was strictly a commode and strictly a lavatory. No refinement, no tile walls, anything like that. It was pure basic and you had to go down the steps [00:32:00] to get there. And so, one of the maids did not, after Mattie May left, that was, like -- my mother came home and she heard a toilet flush. That maid was out of there. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: That’s, you know, that’s the way it was. Something that they did not mention in the book where we’re talking about the help that the maids had to have to plan the meals and things like that -- and in those days, there were a lot of ’em that could not read and write and they had what is called a pictogram board. Now, you probably don’t know what I’m talking about but it was a board that had pictures of coffee -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: -- tea and sugar and little pigs. And so, if you couldn’t read or write and you were in the kitchen, you could peg in the picture of what was needed and that was what the board said, “What We Need,” and you pegged in like that. ’Cause education was frowned on. [00:33:00] And now, I think it’s -- we try to promote it for everybody. I certainly think it’s the good thing to do. WALKER-HARPS: Well, yes, but you can see traces of it when we -- right now, we’re getting this battle again about vouchers and (inaudible) WALLACE: Vouchers, oh, yeah, that’s a whole -- WALKER-HARPS: And that’s a, yeah, that’s a -- WALLACE: -- ’nother thing to -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, yeah. WALLACE: -- restore segregated school systems. WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yes. WALLACE: And it has been, which was -- I think it’s terrible. I’m a public school supporter and I always have been. But I can just see the drift apart, yeah. Went down to St. George’s school. I’m proud of it that they’re doing it but it was started, I think, to preserve a -- all-white sort of attitude. It’s not as bad as Barnesville Academy, I -- that was purely thrown up in the face of -- to avoid [00:34:00] integration and have the place for these people who go to school. Now, that had no pretense at academics at all (laughs) and thankfully, it closed. I’m trying to think of some other things I wanted to mention in my ramble about growing up here. BRAMAN: Well, can I -- WALLACE: Yeah. BRAMAN: -- ask a couple question, just -- __: (inaudible) BRAMAN: -- while you were on the whole public school, private school thing, there does seem to be an inordinate amount of private schools in the area. And did that happen in that period where you had Brown v Topeka, Kansas Board -- WALLACE: Yeah, that was the inception. BRAMAN: That was the inception. WALLACE: Yeah, that was the impetus for these things. And then, of course, it got an evangelical -- there’s a segment of the politicians in this country that knew how to capture the hearts is go to the cross, get ’em that way. And I don’t [00:35:00] want to make a political speech but I’m just saying that’s how -- they were smart enough to know what to do. We’re not going to do it just on our own but if we can get the churches and if we can get the churches to then elect the school boards and elect the county commissions and that sort of thing, then we’ve got the power and that’s what’s happened. And these churches -- and a lot of ’em have good schools. Now, I don’t -- I can’t speak to St. George’s Episcopal Church. I don’t think it was it’s -- that church is not evangelical by any means. So, I think they just wanted a private school. I mean, they had some in Atlanta that they wanted to emulate. But some of ’em, like Brookstone and some of these others, they’re still outgrowths of the desire to be segregated. And if you see a graduation picture of some of these several schools around here, you won’t see but one or [00:36:00] two token Afro-Americans in it. BRAMAN: Right, right. WALLACE: And it -- that’s, you know, Brown v Topeka, it started it all. BRAMAN: Right. WALLACE: And they’d rather give up -- they’d rather pay that extra -- they don’t -- it’s not so much -- it’s they don’t want other people to have it. They don’t want to give to somebody that they feel like they don’t deserve it or they’re not worthy or why not be -- do it -- “Why are they calling on me?” -- that it’s a desire to deny rather than establish something. BRAMAN: So, is it -- same kind of zero sum game? If one area benefits then the other one has to lose? They (inaudible) -- WALLACE: Yeah. Well, in -- that’s a principle of physics. For every action, there’s an equal reaction, isn’t that? -- I feel like that’s what happened with Obama’s election. There was a reaction to that. [00:37:00] I don’t think people saw it coming. (laughs) BRAMAN: Right. WALLACE: Just like we couldn’t see Trump coming. BRAMAN: Right. WALLACE: But then, there’s -- I think that was the reaction to -- WALKER-HARPS: But there’s more often -- and we accept being more anti out there than we want to accept being out there, otherwise Trump wouldn’t have gotten elected. But -- WALLACE: Yeah. WALKER-HARPS: -- it’s, yeah, there’s still -- whole lot in the closet that -- WALLACE: A lot. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: A whole lot. WALKER-HARPS: A lot in the closet. WALLACE: And I have a group that I have breakfast every Tuesday morning. And this morning, I -- 12 of us. I would say that only two of us voted for Hillary Clinton. The other 10 voted for Trump, though they have admitted they find him a despicable person and they will admit that. I don’t know what y’all feel but (inaudible) -- WALKER-HARPS: Well, they will probably do it again (inaudible) WALLACE: And they’ll vote again -- WALKER-HARPS: -- they’ll vote the same way. WALLACE: -- you’re exactly right. WALKER-HARPS: They will vote again the same way. WALLACE: That’s what’s so [00:38:00] sad! WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: That’s what makes you feel like what has it all been worth? We tried to have a Democratic Party here. WALKER-HARPS: I remember, yes. WALLACE: We did and we asked some -- we just -- WALKER-HARPS: And your wife was an avid supporter. WALLACE: Hmm? WALKER-HARPS: Mickie was an active part. WALLACE: Yeah, she was. She kept the books for a while and she was on the voting committee. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: She was the Democratic appointee of the voting committee and -- whatever that is. WALKER-HARPS: That’s just a good example that you should mention that, what is actually the feelings or -- when we look at what’s happening with the voter registrar today, it is an outgrowth of just what we’re talking about because there is no reason for the lack of acceptance by your other -- Marcel DeKirk, registrar. When you look at what has happened in the past -- and she came in, [00:39:00] The only thing that could be a negative for her is the color of her skin. WALLACE: Yeah. WALKER-HARPS: It is not that she has not done the job. And when you find situations where -- and I don’t (inaudible) a situation where people actually refused to work for her for no reason at all but wanting to do a good job. And we accept that and support it, then there is no other reason but racism. WALLACE: Well, but those that -- opposing her will come up with these stories -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: -- like they’re just pure out of fiction and tell (on her?). WALKER-HARPS: Yes! WALLACE: I mean, and they -- and I don’t know because I’m not down there and I don’t know what’s going on but I know that they do -- her name is disparaged a lot. WALKER-HARPS: A lot! A lot! And there’s been no basis for it. Now, I could accept -- you tell me why and I can accept that. WALLACE: I know, you -- WALKER-HARPS: But there’s no -- WALLACE: -- know why. WALKER-HARPS: Why is it okay for me not to want [00:40:00] to accept an order from a black woman? Why would I imply that you lack common sense just because you’re a black woman? So, there is evidence. And let me get back to your story not my story. But that’s just an example of how, even today -- WALLACE: Sure! WALKER-HARPS: -- they’re still alive and well. And I don’t know that we want to accept that. Your friends don’t want to be called racist -- WALLACE: But they are. WALKER-HARPS: -- but they are. (laughter) But they’ll stand for -- they are! WALLACE: They are! I tell ’em that! WALKER-HARPS: They are! And I’m not even sure that they believe that they are. WALLACE: They don’t believe it -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: -- but they don’t want -- WALKER-HARPS: They don’t want -- WALLACE: -- they don’t want to put their arms around you and hug and say it’s all right, dear, we’re okay. Everything’s going to be all right. They don’t -- they can’t reach that point. WALKER-HARPS: No, they can’t do that. WALLACE: Yeah, yeah. WALKER-HARPS: Oh, boy. Now, tell us a little bit about the political [00:41:00] side. How did we get to the point where we have –- or, as much diversity and what was it like prior to where we are now? I know I was a part -- well, I was in leadership at the time that we had that court case, Gary Reed and a few others actually signed. I did not sign but I was there. I was a part of it, the ruling where challenged, that large vote-in. And we went to second member districts and that really changed the complexion of the political system here. WALLACE: Well, y’all might remember that the senate, this was a senate, state senate bill, somebody versus Sanders. I think he was the governor. To elect a senator, you had three counties and a district and you just rotated ’em. Fayette would elect [00:42:00] one every two years and Spalding one every two years. And I think Ensenada? I don’t remember the three counties but when you were not in that area, you didn’t have any vote for the person that was elected. So, they brought this lawsuit and Bob Smalley was running then. He was a state senator and he was faced with that, losing his position because he didn’t live in Fayette County. And Mr. Cooke sent me down to the federal court to pick up the decision, the tissue paper decision we call ’em of that ruling that said that was unconstitutional. You had to have one vote, one -- to elect whoever it was, that you can’t diminish the votes by parceling ’em out to various candidates. That was big. But the big thing that realigned everything, Jewel, was the Civil Rights Act, the Johnson, under the Johnson era. WALKER-HARPS: Nineteen sixty-four, yeah. WALLACE: And he knew. He knew. [00:43:00] They said, “You’ve lost the South,” and we did, and everything almost immediately switched. The Democrats that -- heretofore, it had been a Democratic primary was tantamount to election. That word was used over and over and over again. If you won the primary, you won. The Republican Party was, well, who? Was Mister -- who am I trying to say, Jewel? Was head of the little, what little bit of the Republican Party we had here. Touchstone! (inaudible) Mr. Touchstone. WALKER-HARPS: Lon Touchstone. WALLACE: Lon Touchstone. He had a few -- handful of largely Afro-American -- maybe Leila Fortune, Leila Bell and them -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: -- mixed up in it as the Republican Party, but not (wanting?) anything. And then, the Civil Rights Act came in and everybody could see that it was changing times. So, all of the Republicans just [00:44:00] (sucking sound) sucked up all of the strength of the races. And then somehow, I’m not so much about the local politics, but it’s just still based on where you live now, isn’t it, Jewel? WALKER-HARPS: Yes, where you live now, really. Yes, where you live now because of the districts. Heretofore, it was you lived anywhere in the county and the county was racially divided by -- geographically. Not politically but geographically and that’s why Judge -- I believe Judge Whalen was the judge that said you can’t do any more annexation on the south side of town until you annex on the north side of town. WALLACE: To keep a balance. WALKER-HARPS: To keep a balance because the affluent people lived on the south side of town and they were, of course, all white. [00:45:00] And as you annexed them, then you had -- you were not balanced in terms of political power. WALLACE: Well, that’s the problem and it’s -- the same is true nationally, in gerrymandering, which I’m firmly opposed to. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: Then they’ll draw these little districts and they come out with results that just -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, yeah. WALLACE: -- are unheard of that -- when they redistrict these ways, but for the very reason to keep this political party -- this is a Republican stronghold here and this is a Democratic strong-- doesn’t matter whether they fluctuate back and forth actually. And that’s the way it is. WALKER-HARPS: That’s the way it is. WALLACE: Now, I think there’s some cracks in this -- the court system’s observance of the validity of that. I’m hoping so, that that’s a management of -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: -- election -- WALKER-HARPS: Well, we’ll see. WALLACE: -- outside the ballot box that shouldn’t be done. [00:46:00] WALKER-HARPS: We’ll see in a few weeks, a few months, rather, ’cause we’re back at that process again. WALLACE: I know. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. So, what, presently, looking at it and knowing where we came from, and what is your assessment today? Well, what do we need to do? Is there anything in your mind that we can do to -- WALLACE: Well, I’m hopeful. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, we are hopeful. WALLACE: I’m optimistic. I believe that the more we stress that -- the Christian principle of love your neighbor as yourself, at every moment that you can, that you got to do that, that there’s going to be some progress made. I’m worried about the fact that it’s, you know, it’s up and pushback and then up and pushback -- WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: -- and up and pushback and we’re in the pushback mode right now because we’ve got leadership that believes in it. [00:47:00] WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: And so, we’ve got to overcome that but down in the districts, down here, I have -- I’m optimistic about the future. I wish I could think during my lifetime we would get to the point where you would not have to say, “I went to the doctor. It was a black doctor.” Why do we have to WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yeah, yes. WALLACE: -- identify that? And we all do it! WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yes. WALLACE: We all do it! WALKER-HARPS: We do it. WALLACE: I went, you know, I went -- I had a high school teacher, she was black, too. You know, just add that, and like you need that reference. And we don’t need that reference. We shouldn’t need it, at any rate. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, we shouldn’t. WALLACE: I don’t know. I’ve talked too much, I’m -- (laughter) (I have?) -- WALKER-HARPS: No, you’ve been good. Got a question -- CAIN: Well, I’ll still always have questions. WALKER-HARPS: I know Art has questions. ART CAIN: Just to -- for the record, you mentioned the biracial committee and that was hugely a reason why you didn’t have any kind of violence [00:48:00] during the -- WALLACE: Well, I claim so and Jewel agrees with me. She says that she thinks that it was -- WALKER-HARPS: Totally. WALLACE: -- instrumental in keeping peace here in the community. CAIN: How many people were on the committee? WALLACE: Oh, I guess at times there was maybe 30, oh -- CAIN: Did you all collectively say, as a leadership group we’re going to go out and advocate for the kind of integration where you wouldn’t have problems? WALLACE: Oh, yeah! CAIN: How did that happen, I mean (inaudible) WALLACE: Oh, yeah, yeah, that’s what I’m saying. We had committees to go see the judge about being -- put black people on the jury list and we had committees to go to the -- WALKER-HARPS: They really facilitated -- WALLACE: -- one of the things -- and this is the thing that my wife just -- she was from Indiana, so she didn’t know how to -- she wasn’t raised right, (laughter). She, at the committee meeting, when we were discussing the grievances, mostly -- and that’s what it was, ’cause white people, we didn’t have any grievances, you know? We wanted to keep the peace but we had [00:49:00] everything the way we wanted it but the others didn’t. And that’s what the committee was about, was to open up the lines of communication. And one of the things was at the hospital, the white people could have Mr. Wallace or Wallace on their nametag. Jewel would have Jewel, first name only. And they -- and that was offensive to ’em and that was one of (inaudible) they brought that up at one of the meetings, that we need to fix that. Well, that was easily fixed. (laughs) That could be done. WALKER-HARPS: That was -- well, we just finalized a lady last week, who was (inaudible) story to tell, least they told about she was the head nurse but she was a head nurse for black folk. They only allowed her upstairs when they ran into trouble -- WALLACE: Yeah. WALKER-HARPS: -- and they needed -- (inaudible) WALLACE: Yeah! WALKER-HARPS: Yeah, I’m -- WALLACE: I mean, I saw that. WALKER-HARPS: -- yes. [00:50:00] WALLACE: Yeah. WALKER-HARPS: And, no -- WALLACE: Portia’s? -- WALKER-HARPS: -- they could not -- WALLACE: -- Portia -- WALKER-HARPS: -- yeah. WALLACE: -- had a daughter that was a good friend of my daughter, Elizabeth. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. Louise -- probably Portia Louise or might have been Marcia, I don’t know what -- WALLACE: I don’t know which one it was but I -- remember that was -- WALKER-HARPS: But -- WALLACE: At any rate, I saw that -- WALKER-HARPS: -- yes. WALLACE: She was 94 years old. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: Very -- WALKER-HARPS: But she will -- WALLACE: -- well respected. But no -- WALKER-HARPS: (inaudible) WALLACE: -- she couldn’t come -- WALKER-HARPS: No. WALLACE: -- she couldn’t do that. WALKER-HARPS: She couldn’t eat with them. She could do whatever but when it was time to eat, then they had to go to the place that -- WALLACE: But these things that some people look as so minor, well, they were not minor to a lot of people on either side. They were major. And a lot of it has been overcome and I don’t see any way that’s ever going to be pushed back in the bottle. WALKER-HARPS: Oh, no, no. WALLACE: And I don’t think it will be, but -- WALKER-HARPS: No, no, that’s -- WALLACE: -- and it can go forward from that. And once there is this experience, that’s what I’m saying, just contact and understanding the platform that other people have, [00:51:00] their agenda that we didn’t know about. I thought it helped a lot that we could do that. I don’t know whether -- and I think it helped them, too. I do. But it’s still always them and us and it shouldn’t be. WALKER-HARPS: Who is currently living who was on that committee? Do you remember? Do you remember what -- do you know when it’s -- WALLACE: God, I guess Walter Jones and I. I hadn’t thought about that. WALKER-HARPS: Oh, yes, I hadn’t thought about Walter Jones because I’ve been trying to find somebody and all of the ones that I knew -- I knew Miss Fitzhugh and (inaudible) WALLACE: All of ’em dead. WALKER-HARPS: -- (dead?) (inaudible) WALLACE: Bob Crossfield, Bob Smalley. WALKER-HARPS: They’re all dead. WALLACE: All -- the Reeds, all of them. My pastor, he’s gone. I guess Jane, Bob’s wife is dead. Mary Fitzhugh’s husband, Fitzy, was a [00:52:00] pediatrician. He’s dead. He was on the comm-- I mean, I guess -- WALKER-HARPS: They all -- I can’t think of anybody who’s still alive. WALLACE: I wish I had somebody that was more -- could represent the ambitions and the accomplishments of that committee that I can remember. But I do know it was important. To me, it was important -- WALKER-HARPS: (inaudible) WALLACE: -- personally and I think it was important. WALKER-HARPS: And even today, if you ask somebody in the black community how do you account for the smoothness or the lack of total chaos, you might say, they would point back to that biracial committee and the willingness to step out and not be hidden but to step out on -- some stage at that time. WALLACE: I think it cost me something in my career, and -- political career. I think -- WALKER-HARPS: Probably so. WALLACE: -- there was some resentment -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: -- among my peer group. But you got to put [00:53:00] that aside. WALKER-HARPS: Yes, yes. WALLACE: You do the right thing or try to do the right thing. I’ve never regretted, certainly. It was -- WALKER-HARPS: Well -- WALLACE: -- a great benefit to me. WALKER-HARPS: -- that worked with you and it worked with your children. You passed that on to your children, whereas we had others, like your friends, and probably did not. So, this is one reason why we still have these little pockets. WALLACE: You’re right. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: You’re exactly right. WALKER-HARPS: See, you’re -- I was well received (inaudible) all the others that I knew, by your children, when they came to school we were well received by them. But then, there were others who came out of a household of hatred and you didn’t get that same (inaudible) WALLACE: Yeah, and there was more of them than us. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah! WALLACE: Certainly (inaudible) (laughs) WALKER-HARPS: Right. WALLACE: -- that’s the problem. WALKER-HARPS: And very definitely. WALLACE: Yeah, oh, and that’s what I’m saying. I think it’s gradually, maybe, the balance is swinging. I hope so. WALKER-HARPS: Are there other questions? JOHN CRUICKSHANK: It seems like [00:54:00] that idea of doing the right thing runs in the family. (laughter) Is that the key? I mean -- WALLACE: I don’t -- CRUICKSHANK: -- were you always like that as a child? Your mother had, apparently, had resentment toward African Americans. Did she, or -- WALLACE: Not resentment. It was not that. It was just this is the way it is. CRUICKSHANK: Yeah. WALLACE: It’s just, as I say, it’s like a fish swimming in the water. They don’t know they’re in water and that’s (overlapping dialogue ; inaudible) WALKER-HARPS: Well, it’s just -- CRUICKSHANK: -- it’s just the contact, the individuals that you happen to cross? That’s where you got your values as a child -- WALLACE: Well, I would say -- CRUICKSHANK: -- to get that idea (inaudible) WALLACE: -- a lot of us was from trying to understand yourself as far as a Christiana and it just -- it should work in every religion, really. Love people! CRUICKSHANK: So, there’s a certain amount of personality involved, I suppose, is there? Just be willing to ask those -- to do that, the [00:55:00] self-exploration, would you say, or? -- WALLACE: Well, you -- or, if you’re like me -- absolute superficial person. So, (laughter) you’re not introspective at all but there’s a certain feeling that you got, what’s right and what’s wrong. And sometimes, your religious teaching has a great deal of bearing on it. Sometimes, the (inaudible) CRUICKSHANK: I’m just trying to understand what it is that set you apart from all the others who were racist and -- WALLACE: I wish I could have an answer to that. Probably a combination of things. WALKER-HARPS: (inaudible) were different and Jill Rapperly were different. You found pockets in rural areas, some rural areas where they were a lot different from the resentment and that line was not as rigid as it would be in -- [00:56:00] for an example, I came from the country and it was a whole lot different for me when I got to Griffin. I guess you play with whoever lived -- WALLACE: Yeah! WALKER-HARPS: -- in the -- yeah, you played with whoever you had around you. You ate and you shared with the people who were around you. You couldn’t share with somebody who didn’t, so you either were going to stand out there all by yourself or you had to become a part of your environment. And that’s one of the things that happened, you -- that kind of put you on the same level and you did the same kind of work if you were earning a living. And that’s just my situation but -- and even here, there were families like (inaudible) and like the Cummings and this smaller family who had a person that’s working for them that they treated as parts of their family. And I happen to know that ’cause I lived with a lady [00:57:00] who worked for the Cummings and (inaudible) WALLACE: Who was the track star, Wyoming Tyus?. WALKER-HARPS: Tyus, yes. WALLACE: (inaudible) worked for the Smalleys for many years, you know? His -- WALKER-HARPS: Okay, yes. WALLACE: -- this -- my mother, she had a yardman, Jeness Sparks that lived on Solomon Street that -- she would have sacrificed us before she would have sacrificed Jen as the yard man, ’cause -- WALKER-HARPS: There were good? -- WALLACE: But she still -- Jeness wouldn’t come in and sit down at the table with us and eat a meal. That’s -- and that -- WALKER-HARPS: ’Cause that’s the difference. WALLACE: -- was just the -- she was not taught that way. It was just the way it was. WALKER-HARPS: Submissive. WALLACE: And you had to sort of break away from that. You’re asking me that question and I don’t know. I don’t think I’m unique but I do know that I have tried since I was an adult by, you know, being 25 or [00:58:00] 26, try to walk in the shoes of people that would -- that I would find the other people’s conduct offensive and if I would, Jewel would. I have -- it took me a long time before I could correct my friends telling stories or making -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes. WALLACE: -- references and using the N-word and I finally, within the last, really, 10 years, say, “Don’t do that again (laughter) or I’m going to get up and walk out, man!” We went in -- my wife and I were with a friend, prominent Atlanta man, in Scotland. And he was just telling these jokes. I said, “Don’t use that word again (laughs) or we’re going to pick up and fly home.” He said, “You’re serious, aren’t you?” And I said, “I am serious.” WALKER-HARPS: Just wouldn’t let him push you out? of the group. WALLACE: Yeah. (laughter) That’s right. WALKER-HARPS: Are there other questions? CRUICKSHANK: Just one other thing I’m curious about, going back to the [00:59:00] beginning of the interview. You’re talking about getting an African American from drunk driving charges, I think. You’re the one who got him off. How did you do that? (laughs) WALLACE: Well, I don’t know. I mean, it’s -- (laughter) if I could have an answer to how -- why a jury does anything -- CRUICKSHANK: Oh. WALLACE: -- after 80 years of -- 55 years of practice -- CRUICKSHANK: How did you build your case? I mean -- WALLACE: Well, it’s -- CRUICKSHANK: -- against anyone? WALLACE: Well, the question is -- remember this: the presumption is that you’re not guilty and they had to -- and you cross-examine and you try to find holes in their testimony. And I did pride myself on that ability, to cross-examine, that you could just keep digging at ’em and hope that they’ll trip up on something. And you don’t know, some little thing will come back. I tried a case in Barnseville. This was during the height of the kindergarten [01:00:00] molesting cases. This was about 15, 20 years ago. You remember that out in California, they had people convicted of saying that they were abusing these children, they were doing all these things to ’em? Well, it popped -- it was, like, hysteria. It popped up in Barnseville and this guy was charged. He had 16 counts. His daughter ran a daycare center and I was hired to go down there and represent him. And I did and I did the best I could and I made one mistake, I thought. Can I tell this story? (laughs) WALKER-HARPS: You can tell whatever you want to tell. (laughter) You can tell -- WALLACE: This -- WALKER-HARPS: -- whatever you want to tell. WALLACE: (laughs) -- this little girl, she was just as cute as she could be, about five. And she was [01:01:00] testifying against my client, Paw-Paw. And she said, “Well, he would -- he’d put me in his lap and he’d love me and put me in his lap.” And I said, well, I -- take care of this. So, I got on the stand and I put her in my lap and I said, “Just like this? Is this what Paw-Paw did?” “Yeah, but he had something hard between his legs.” I said, God, that was the worst -- you know, you’re supposed to not ever get into that thing. Well, I came back and sat with my client. I said, “I’m sorry, I just blew the case.” So, the -- we went on, tried the whole thing. The jury went out. They came back in and they said, “We have reached a verdict on one of the counts but we’re hopelessly deadlocked on all the others.” [01:02:00] And I said, well, I knew what it was. Well, they found him not guilty on some other count. (laughs) Didn’t pay any attention to that or didn’t hear what was said or didn’t know what I thought and mistried the rest of it. And he walked out of the courtroom. He said, “What do I do now?” I said, “Walk fast! (laughter) Get out of” -- and two weeks later, he was found -- the fatal victim of an accident in his barn where he had fallen on the combine and a stake had gotten driven somehow through his head. That ended that. Yeah, but you don’t? (overlapping dialogue ; inaudible) I wish I could answer your question. I wish I’d know why you got him off and why you didn’t or why they get -- WALKER-HARPS: You had an actual case of -- a replica of To Kill a Mockingbird. [01:03:00] CRUICKSHANK: Really? WALLACE: Mm-hmm. WALKER-HARPS: With the Copland case, would be a good parallel to what they did with the book and with the movie, To Kill a Mockingbird.” WALLACE: Well, again, I’ve got -- that’s a project that I’ve got on my mind right now, Jewel, is Addison Finch might be lauded as a hero but he actually was a rather poor lawyer. WALKER-HARPS: Yeah. WALLACE: He did not attack -- he did not present the case the way I would have done it. I mean, it was a lead pipe, he was going to lose it anyway. But he attacked on this rather awkward thing about being left-handed and right-handed. You remember the play? WALKER-HARPS: Yes, I remember. WALLACE: Well, what he should have done was attack the girl about her staging this thing by collecting the money, by sending her children off to the store downtown. See, never touched on that but just briefly but hammer on that. You made [01:04:00] this whole thing possible by planning, by saving your money, by sending the children, and he could have verified that ’cause the children were not there, remember? They were down getting their ice cream cone. He could’ve verified that by the white proprietor of the ice cream store that the children were down there. They were never down there any other time. But see, he didn’t go into all that. He went (inaudible) WALKER-HARPS: Write that book. (laughter) (inaudible) WALLACE: Y’all understand what I’m saying? There’s a -- WALKER-HARPS: I have to say -- WALLACE: -- he didn’t -- WALKER-HARPS: -- yes. WALLACE: -- that is a -- WALKER-HARPS: It’s probably (inaudible) WALLACE: -- that -- he was going to lose it but at least he would show her -- I mean, she deserved to have some punishment, too, (laughs) for lying about -- WALKER-HARPS: Sign of the times, probably. He was afraid to do that. WALLACE: Well, might have been. It might have been that but -- WALKER-HARPS: Or -- WALLACE: -- I had to -- when I was in the play and had the opportunity -- and I ask Norma, who runs that little theater -- you ought to go down there, Jewel, it’s good. WALKER-HARPS: I have been. WALLACE: Have you been? WALKER-HARPS: Mm-hmm, and I have been -- WALLACE: She runs -- [01:05:00] I advise all of y’all to go see what she does down there. WALKER-HARPS: I have been. And I’ve been trying to get in touch with her. WALLACE: Yeah, she would be a good -- WALKER-HARPS: (inaudible) WALLACE: -- one, too. WALKER-HARPS: -- because she was referred to me but I have not been to -- she hasn’t returned my call. I guess maybe I should call again. But I’m trying to reach her through somebody else. WALLACE: Yeah, she’s -- WALKER-HARPS: But yes, I’ve been. WALLACE: Anyway, I had the -- I said, I ask her, I said, “Can I do a little informal” -- and I’ve had the girl down and I did cross-examine her, just playing when we were there at practice one day, and doing that. And I enjoyed it and the girl, she didn’t know what we were doing?. (laughter) And I said, “This is what Atticus should have been doing rather than this other defense.” WALKER-HARPS: Yes. Well, what an interesting interview. Wonderful. Any more questions? If not, we’re going to (inaudible) WALLACE: Are you from Virginia or Charleston? CRUICKSHANK: I’m from Canada. WALLACE: Oh! (laughter) Well, you can’t understand any of this, now. [01:06:00] (laughter) CRUICKSHANK: I saw To Kill A Mockingbird when I was about three years old, I think. (laughter) WALLACE: That’s a great story but it -- CRUICKSHANK: Yeah. WALLACE: -- re-read it sometime. They’ve got somebody in Broad-- they’ve got a new production in Broadway -- WALKER-HARPS: Yes, WALLACE: -- that I would really love to see. WALKER-HARPS: I would love to see that, too, yes, great. WALLACE: Am I excused? (laughter) WALKER-HARPS: We want to express our appreciation to you. We thoroughly enjoyed -- we’ve not had that -- you filled a gap that we had not had, right, guys? BRAMAN: Absolutely. WALKER-HARPS: Yes. And we just appreciate you taking the time and your willingness to talk -- WALLACE: Oh, it’s my pleasure! Really was, Jewel. I’ve done so much that’s hurt my feelings with the other race in my lifetime. I feel like I’m -- every minute I can atone for some of it, I’m better off (inaudible) WALKER-HARPS: Well, you did. Thank you so much, (laughter) thank you. WALLACE: Oh, I enjoyed it. WALKER-HARPS: Thank you, guys, everybody. WALLACE: I’m glad this is once in a lifetime experience. (laughter) WALKER-HARPS: Ah, well -- [01:07:00] Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL418GAA/findingaid
Location
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Griffin, Georgia
Duration
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67 minutes
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL418GAA-022/ohms
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with Howard Wallace, March 26, 2019
Identifier
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RBRL418GAA-022
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Howard Wallace
Jewel Walker-Harps
Art Cain
John Cruickshank
Rich Braman
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audio
oral histories
Subject
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Religion
Race relations
Discrimination
Description
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Howard Wallace grew up in the 1930s in Griffin, Georgia. As a young adult, Wallace joined the Biracial Committee where he worked on the integration process of Griffin. In this interview, Wallace talks about his upbringing, the racial aspects of religion and politics, his work as a lawyer, and interactions with the Ku Klux Klan.
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2019-03-26
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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sound
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Griffin, Georgia
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-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Mississippi--History
Agriculture and Industry
Description
An account of the resource
The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection is comprised of interviews whose research focus is on the environmental, social, and technological aspects of agricultural change in the Yazoo-Mississippi Delta. Interviews were conducted with a variety of subjects, including large-scale and small-scale farmers, former agricultural workers, civil rights activists, extension agents, and agro-industrial sector workers, documenting their experience of the agricultural industrialization process during the mid to late twentieth century.<br /><br /><span>The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection was donated to the Russell Library in 2017 by Brian Williams, a doctoral candidate in the Geography Department at the University of Georgia. All interviews were conducted by Williams as primary source research, spanning across various states in the southeastern United States, including Mississippi, Tennessee, and Georgia.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=16&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a><br /></span>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL420MA
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Mississippi
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Brian Williams
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA-004/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Frank Corban, September 6, 2016 RBRL420MA-004 RBRL420MA Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Frank Corban Brian Williams oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_qlx0yemp& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_6spirb11" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 20 Early life and education So Mr. Corban, can you tell me a bit about yourself growing up? Where were you born? Corban describes growing up on the family farm. He talks about their diversified approach to farming by raising dairy cattle, beef cattle, and other livestock, as well as vegetables, corn, and hay. He mentions attending Mississippi State University where he majored in animal husbandry. Corban discusses becoming an assistant county agent in Tunica County, Mississippi. cattle ; college ; dairy industry ; diversification ; forest club ; Jefferson County, Mississippi ; produce ; university 17 559 Agriculture in the 1950s-1960s What was agriculture like there at the time? Corban describes cotton production in the mid-1950s to the early 1960s, and talks about increased mechanization with mechanical pickers. He describes the problem of boll weevils and boll rot which destroyed cotton crops. bollworms ; crop dusters ; fertile soil ; hand labor ; insecticides ; insects ; rain ; tractors 17 957 Pesticides And so there were a lot of chemicals used in the 1950s, right? Corban describes the increased use of insecticides in farming and in daily life. He talks of the toxicity of early pesticides compared to the less harmful DDT, which he exemplifies through stories about an African American farm worker who got constantly covered with DDT dust and a prominent farmer who swallowed DDT. He talks about how people tried to avoid being sprayed by the crop dusters, but he states that the human toxicity of the insecticides was relatively low. airplanes ; boll weevil ; cotton ; environmentalists ; flame cultivation ; fleas ; herbicidal oil ; household insects ; immunity ; pesticides ; toxaphene 17 1881 Mississippi Delta and career as a county agent So you moved from Jefferson county to Tunica was it--well to Mississippi State then Tunica. Corban talks about the less established population of the Mississippi Delta region as a result of the dangerous wildlife, swampy terrain, and malaria outbreaks known to the area. He talks about his work as a county agent and discusses how he would refer farmers to specialists and do hands-on work like inspecting crops for insects. boll weevils ; cotton ; insecticides ; Jefferson County, Mississippi ; livestock ; Mississippi State University ; mosquitoes ; pesticides ; plantations ; soy beans ; Tunica County, Mississippi 17 2632 Race relations and loss of small farms Was there much happening with the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960s in Sunflower County or Sharkey County? Corban describes how an African American county agent worked mostly with the black farmers while Corban worked mostly with the white farmers, but he mentions that they were in the same office and sometimes collaborated. Corban talks about how both black and white small farmers had to sell their land because they could not grow enough to make a living. black farmers ; home economist ; integration ; large farms ; Sharkey County, Mississippi ; small farms 17 3021 Vegetable, cotton, soybean, and corn markets Were there any small vegetable growers or were they all cotton growers? Corban describes how farmers tried to diversify their production with vegetables and livestock, but he states that they had limited success due to erratic markets. He talks about how farmers have repeatedly abandoned and then return to cotton because of varying prices. Corban discusses how farmers have recently sold their cotton farm equipment and focused on soy beans and corn which he thinks is a bad idea in the long run. Agricultural Stabilization and Conservation Service (ASCS) ; cotton allotments ; cotton gin ; crop prices ; diversification ; green beans ; harvester ; labor ; livestock ; okra ; spinach ; sweet potatoes ; tomatoes ; vegetable farms 17 3963 Boll Weevil Eradication Program So when you were extension agent here in Sharkey County what did--what were the things you spent most of your time on? Corban describes his involvement as a county agent in every stage of cotton production. He talks about working on research and experimentation with Dr. George Mullendore which lead to the Boll Weevil Eradication Program. The program focused on preventing boll weevils from going into diapause by continuing to spray cotton crops after they reached maturity and cutting cotton stalks immediately after harvest. Corban describes facing some opposition from farmers due to the cost of the pesticides, but he says he was able to get most farmers involved and successfully eradicate the boll weevil in the area. adaptation ; aerial operators ; Boll Weevil Diapause Program ; boll weevil traps ; chemical companies ; cotton ; Cotton Board ; hibernation ; insecticides ; marketing specialists ; metaparadigm ; monitoring ; National Cotton Council ; soy beans ; Stonewall, Mississippi ; variety testing 17 4791 Agricultural differences between Sharkey County and Sunflower County How would agriculture here in Skarkey County compare to agriculture in other Delta counties during the 60s and 70s? Would you say it was about the same or were there some maybe differences? Corban talks about the difference in cotton production in Sharkey County and Sunflower County. He states that farmers in Sharkey County produced more cotton and had a higher standard of living than farmers in Sunflower County because Sharkey County had better soil. He also tells a story about a farmer who used geese for weed control. copping cotton ; cotton bails ; farm equipment ; fertilizer ; grass ; insecticides ; lime ; money ; pesticides ; productive soil ; tractors ; trucks ; Tunica, Mississippi 17 5366 Politics Did you ever know--have any dealings with any politicians like Senator Eastland? Corban describes talking with Senator James Eastland about his farming practices. He discusses local and state politics, mentioning how the extension office had agents in every county which enabled them to mobilize locals to influence elected officials and increase funding for services. 4-H ; extension agents ; families ; farming ; Mississippi Extension Office ; representatives 17 5683 Chemical regulation and representatives At the level of regulation, how did that impact agriculture around here? The regulation about chemicals and stuff. Corban describes calibrating spray rigs and recommending chemicals to farmers as a county agent. He talks about how county agents had to make chemical recommendations based on regulation and prolonged research in comparison to chemical company representatives who tried to sell particular chemicals. Corban discusses having a positive relationship with chemical company representatives and even attending their conferences. chemical regulation ; herbicides ; insecticides ; pesticides 17 6327 Retirement So you retired when you were 55? Corban describes retiring at 55 after 33 years of service as a county agent because he was able to draw civil service retirement and state retirement. He talks about doing agricultural consulting and owning a car wash and pest control business which he eventually sold. He talks about owning his childhood home and 115 acres of family land where he has horses and blueberries. children ; family ; house ; Jefferson County, Mississippi ; siblings ; small business owner 17 6680 Skip-row cotton and Clean Bean Program You were telling me a second ago that you rode a cotton cart to the mill. Corban describes working on the family dairy business as a child, miking cows and delivering the milk. He also talks about the varying cotton markets in the 1960s and 1970s and mentions how farmers increased yields of planted acres through skip-row planting in which empty rows are left between cotton plants to increase yields and drought tolerance. He discusses his Clean Bean Program in Sharkey County which he implemented to help soy bean farmers deal with johnson grass. The program killed johnson grass through intensive tilling followed by spraying herbicides. cotton allotment ; johnsongrass ; minimum tillage ; rhizomes ; Treflan herbicide 17 7311 Agricultural changes and obstacles So between the 1970s and the 1980s, were there any kind of major changes in agriculture that you saw occur in Sharkey County? Corban describes the increasing use of computers in agriculture for farm planning. He talks about how he mitigated tensions as a county agent between farmers and nearby homeowners over chemical drift from the aerial application of pesticides and herbicides. He argues that people unfairly blame agricultural air pollution for problems when indoor air pollution is worse. allergies ; computer programs ; cotton defoliation ; crop dusters ; damages ; defoliants ; hairspray ; mosquitoes ; production costs 17 7967 Carter brothers and Total Cotton Production program So you worked with the Carter brothers? Corban talks about working with the Carter brothers on their large farm where he would do test plots. He describes his Total Cotton Production program that encouraged farmers to simultaneously use all the recommendations for increasing cotton yields. Carter Brothers Farms ; county agent ; family farm ; James R. " ; Jimmy Dick" ; Carter ; Mississippi State University ; potassium ; technology 17 8345 Agricultural and social change In terms of, you know, Rolling Folk as a whole and Sharkey County as a whole, how have things, you know, changed since you moved here? Corban talks about how there are now less farmers and larger farms. He describes how commercial corn and catfish production has become increasingly popular. He discusses how Sharkey County has always been majority African American, mentioning that the diversity is good and that there has not been any major racial problems. black farmers ; Civil Rights Movement ; cotton ; County Extension Service ; Dr. George Mullendore ; Helena Chemical Company ; race relations ; rice ; soy beans ; wheat 17 8749 Success in farming What in your mind has determined which farmers have been most successful over time? Corban describes how success in farming is determined by a farmer's land and their business skills. He states that the future of Sharkey County is bright because the demand for agriculture will continue to increase as the population increases. Corban shares a story about a local black farmer who was very well read and informed about farming but was not successful because he waited too long to plant and tend to his crops. bankruptcy ; credit ; Deer Creek land ; farming tradition ; James R. " ; Jimmy Dick" ; Carter ; money ; persistence ; savings ; soil ; Sunflower County, Mississippi ; timing 17 9300 Children You have three sons you said? Did you have any daughters? Corban mentions how his first wife died of ALS after having three sons, and he talks about remarrying and gaining a step-daughter. Corban describes how all of his sons are involved in agriculture through farming, chemical companies, and the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA). agricultural sciences ; family ; grandchildren ; Lou Gehrig's disease (ALS) 17 No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 RBRL420MA-004.xml RBRL420MA-004.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA/findingaid
Location
The location of the interview
Rolling Fork, Mississippi
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
159 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Frank Corban, September 6, 2016
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL420MA-004
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Frank Corban
Brian Williams
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Mississippi
Subject
The topic of the resource
Pesticides
Race relations
Description
An account of the resource
Frank Corban was born in 1934 in Jefferson County, Mississippi. He was raised on the family farm, and he attended Mississippi State University for Animal Husbandry. He worked as a county agent for 55 years in Tunica County, Sunflower County, and Sharkey County where he advised local farmers. In this interview, Corban discusses agricultural changes, pesticides, and his Boll Weevil Eradication Program.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-06
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Mississippi--History
Agriculture and Industry
Description
An account of the resource
The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection is comprised of interviews whose research focus is on the environmental, social, and technological aspects of agricultural change in the Yazoo-Mississippi Delta. Interviews were conducted with a variety of subjects, including large-scale and small-scale farmers, former agricultural workers, civil rights activists, extension agents, and agro-industrial sector workers, documenting their experience of the agricultural industrialization process during the mid to late twentieth century.<br /><br /><span>The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection was donated to the Russell Library in 2017 by Brian Williams, a doctoral candidate in the Geography Department at the University of Georgia. All interviews were conducted by Williams as primary source research, spanning across various states in the southeastern United States, including Mississippi, Tennessee, and Georgia.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=16&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a><br /></span>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL420MA
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Mississippi
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Brian Williams
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA-009/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Genether Spurlock, September 22, 2016 RBRL420MA-009 RBRL420MA Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Genether Spurlock Brian Williams oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_0ohcl42q& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_zvpblbtu" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 13 Growing up and sharecropping So Mrs. Spurlock, could you tell me when and where you were born? Spurlock describes growing up in Tallahatchie, Mississippi. She talks about how her mother worked as a domestic worker and her father worked in a factory, describing how both also worked as farmers. Spurlock discusses the role of storytelling in her family and describes how her father would tell the children family stories, ghost stories, and fables. Charleston, Mississippi ; Enid, Mississippi ; oral tradition ; sharecropper ; Tar-Baby ; Tutwiler, Mississippi ; Uncle Remus stories 17 862 Racial terror And you said that he told a story about somebody getting thrown in the creek. Was this about the time that all that--everything happened with Emmett Till. Spurlock describes being told stories about incidents of racial terror in the community. She talks about how she lived in fear for herself and her brothers because so many people were hurt or lynched. Spurlock discuses the prevalence of domestic violence in the African American community which she attributes to the mistreatment of black men by white people. domestic abuse ; lynch mob ; racial violence ; suffering 17 1273 Civil Rights Did organization or any sort of resistance or movement happen with civil rights here in Tallahatchie country area? Spurlock describes how black community leaders in Tallahatchie promoted compliance and dissuaded involvement in the Civil Rights Movement. She talks about how activist Solomon Gort, Jr organized a voter registration drive, hosted Civil Rights rallies, and brought in outside speakers, but most people remained uninvolved. Spurlock mentions how the local schools did not integrate until 1971. Brown vs Board of Education ; freedom of choice ; integration ; pastors ; protest ; school principals 17 1733 Black landowners losing their land Did black people around here have much economic power in the years around or before the Civil Rights Movement? Spurlock describes how African Americans had no economic power because most of them worked for white people. She talks about how many black landowners lost their land to their white neighbors. chopping cotton ; Farm Home Administration (FHA) ; farms ; husband ; picking cotton ; Sunflower, Mississippi 17 2110 Education and teaching As soon as I got out of high school, I went to college... Spurlock describes how she went to college and became a teacher in order to avoid farming. She talks about commuting to Delta State University where she earned a degree in business education. She mentions that Delta State was the first time she had white teachers and white classmates, but she says that only had one incident of racial discrimination in the classroom. Spurlock describes her 27 year career as a teacher in Tutwiler, mentioning how she loved the students but disliked the educational bureaucracy. She talks about being married twice and describes how her first husband had a farm in Sunflower County. college ; elementary school ; family ; farm work ; high school ; husband ; integration ; marriage ; Tutwiler Community Education Center 17 2641 Racial progress and economic change in Tutwiler So how has Tutwiler changed over the years? Spurlock describes how Tutwiler used to be a thriving community with many businesses before factories closed and new labor laws and agricultural practices caused many people to lose their jobs and move away. She talks about how there were very few black-owned business in town, recalling only one neighborhood store. Spurlock describes the racial progress in Tutwiler and states that children today take their freedom and ability to go to school for granted. She talks about changing agricultural practices as farmers had to comply with new labor laws and began to use more herbicides. child labor ; domestic worker ; economic decline ; education ; juke joints ; loss of industry ; maid ; minimum wage ; out migration ; plantations ; school ; school lunch 17 3628 Public Office So you became mayor eventually of Tutwiler? Spurlock describes her experience as the mayor of Tutwiler, Mississippi. She talks about how her desire to give a voice to the people motivated her to run for office. Spurlock mentions working to improve the roads, organize the police department, and increase access to housing while in office. She states that her biggest regret is that she was unable to build a park for the children to play in because of disputes with the board. accountability ; affordable housing ; basketball ; constituents ; law enforcement ; politicians ; prisons ; public servants ; streets ; tax base 17 4164 Tutwiler Community Education Center and changing agricultural practices They still have no place that they can--if it wasn't for this particular center here they would have--and the children of Tutwiler are blessed. Spurlock describes her role as a founding member of the Tutwiler Community Education Center and mentions how it has greatly benefited the community. She also describes the lack of connection between Tutwiler and the surrounding farms which prevents the town from expanding. Spurlock describes how new labor laws led to the increased mechanization of agriculture. She talks about being exposed to herbicides while chopping cotton as a child, but she states that she is unsure about lasting affects. agricultural technology ; chemicals ; children ; disability benefits ; farming ; illness ; Kellogg Grant ; Sister Maureen Delaney ; Social Security ; unemployment benefits 17 4704 Tallahatchie County Correctional Facility Can you think of some major events that have happened that we haven't talked about here in Tutwiler? Spurlock describes major events Tutwiler, mentioning the closing of the factory, school, bank, and other businesses. She talks about her initial opposition to the construction of the Tallahatchie County Correctional Facility ; however, she states that she now thinks it has been a blessing to the community due to increased jobs and funding. prison ; safety ; unemployment 17 No transcript. audio Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. 0 RBRL420MA-009.xml RBRL420MA-009.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA/findingaid
Location
The location of the interview
Tutwiler, Mississippi
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
85 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Genether Spurlock, September 22, 2016
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL420MA-009
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Genether Spurlock
Brian Williams
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Mississippi
Subject
The topic of the resource
Women--Political activity
African American women
Community organization
Race relations
African American teachers
African American politicians
Local government
African Americans--History
Politics and Public Policy
Women teachers
Description
An account of the resource
Genether Spurlock was born in 1951 in Enid, Mississippi. She grew up chopping cotton before attending college and becoming a teacher. She served as the mayor of Tutwiler and works as the Education Coordinator at the Tutwiler Community Education Center. In this interview, she describes sharecropping, race relations, and her experience in public office.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-09-22
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Mississippi--History
Agriculture and Industry
Description
An account of the resource
The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection is comprised of interviews whose research focus is on the environmental, social, and technological aspects of agricultural change in the Yazoo-Mississippi Delta. Interviews were conducted with a variety of subjects, including large-scale and small-scale farmers, former agricultural workers, civil rights activists, extension agents, and agro-industrial sector workers, documenting their experience of the agricultural industrialization process during the mid to late twentieth century.<br /><br /><span>The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection was donated to the Russell Library in 2017 by Brian Williams, a doctoral candidate in the Geography Department at the University of Georgia. All interviews were conducted by Williams as primary source research, spanning across various states in the southeastern United States, including Mississippi, Tennessee, and Georgia.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=16&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a><br /></span>
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL420MA
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Mississippi
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Brian Williams
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA-017/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Carlton Layne, October 29, 2016 RBRL420MA-017 RBRL420MA Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Carlton Layne Brian Williams oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_xy5qgzzc& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_3mur7lmh" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 14 Childhood / The Vietnam draft Mr. Layne, could you tell me a bit about your life... Layne recalls growing up in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania- where his father worked as an electrician. Layne states that he attended college Clarion State University. Layne explains that he graduated in 1968, and recalls the influence that the Vietnam War made on his after-college decisions. Layne states that he was hired to work with the U.S Department of Agriculture and was based in central Florida. Layne adds that he failed the Vietnam draft physical due to high blood pressure. Layne recalls that he eventually married and had kids, and was officially labeled as unfit for military services. Clarion University ; Elon, Virginia ; Portsmouth. Virginia ; US Department of Agriculture (USDA) 17 410 Working for the US Department of Agriculture So I worked for USDA for five years... Layne recalls that he worked in the government in Lake County, Florida at a citrus manufacturing facility before he came to work in Camelo, Georgia. In Camelo, he ran a lab which conducted research over the mold species, Aspergilus Flavus, which was then known to be a toxin and carcinogen, and was present in peanut and cotton seeds. Layne mentions another project he co-created, called Environmental Thrust, which was a group that collected unused cars. Layne explains that he eventually left the USDA and started to work for the EPA Aspergilus flavus (mold) ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Rachel Carson ; US Department of Agriculture (USDA) 17 808 Experience as a health inspector / Upholding FIFRA So I took the position with EPA... Layne recalls that he worked in the public health sector of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne explains that he was hired to be a food inspector in Kentucky, where he conducted testing over the pesticides present in agricultural foods. Layne explains that his work in the newly created EPA was revolutionary, as previous Federal Environmental Pesticide Control Acts (FIFRA) did not focus as much on the safety of pesticides and were more concerned with the pesticide involved in interstate commence. Layne explains that the lack of regulation over the usage of pesticides was a government concern that was later addressed in the amended FIFRA. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Federal Environmental Pesticide Control Act (FIFRA) 17 1333 Relationship between EPA and manufacturers They caused unknown, adverse affects on the environment... Layne talks about how the U.S Department of Agriculture did not address the environmental impact of pesticides on the environment. Layne recalls how the Environmental Protection Agency was disliked by pesticide distributors and members of the agricultural community. Layne explains how as an EPA investigator over pesticide use, he often met oppositions from said groups. Layne recalls that the EPA set up regulations for restricted use of pesticide application. Layne talks about how in 1974, he started to conduct work in developing the state plan for Mississippi's pesticide control. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Insect Control Conference ; US Department of Agriculture (USDA) 17 1850 Experience in Mississippi I went over, at one point, to the Insect Control Conference Layne talks about how he came to work in Mississippi for the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne recalls that he was kept in Mississippi, where he was shown around Mississippi to learn more about agriculture. Layne explains that he was taught about agriculture by Edgar Hobbs, who was the face of the Agricultural Aviation Board. Layne explains that he used his learning experience in Mississippi and other states to assist in the writing of legislation for the EPA. Agricultural Aviation Board ; Edgar Hobbs ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Insect Control Conference ; Roy Clarke 17 2246 SFIREG / Working in Florida There was also a regional organization called SFIREG... Layne explains that he came to work for SFIREG, a national and state pesticide regulation group, which met in order to create the state plan legislation for the Environmental Protection Agency. Layne recalls he eventually left Mississippi for Florida, where he worked as an inspector for the Floridian crops. Layne recalls that in Florida, he learned about the invasive species, Hydrilla Florida, and the dangers the mosquito population posed to Floridian waterways. Dr. Bill Howler ; Environmental Protection Agency ; Gainesville, Florida ; Hydrilla Florida ; Mississippi ; SFIREG 17 2677 Working in Florida / Training inspectors So there was a lot of work that we were doing back then... Layne recalls that he eventually was networked with the Florida agricultural community, as an investigator working for the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne explains that his connection with Vince Gilleo and Doyle Conner who worked in the Florida Department of Agriculture and Commissioner of Agriculture respectively, assisted him in his involvement in cases concerning the EPA's regulatory investigations. Layne explains that Florida's relationship between the state and federal organizations was non contentious, which eventually allowed for the training of inspectors for the state of Georgia. Doyle Conner ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Florida Department of Agriculture ; National Enforcement Training Institute ; Vince Gilleo 17 3064 Training EPA inspectors (cont.) So, the public speaking that began in Mississippi... Layne talks about his job as a trainer for inspectors employed by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne explains that his mentor inspired him to incorporate education in the effort to uphold the standards of the Environmental Protection Agency. Layne recalls that his work in Florida led him to serve and direct the many organizations composing the Florida Aquatic Plant Management Society. Layne talks about how his supervisor, Jack Stonebreaker, eventually compelled him to work in Atlanta, Georgia as chief of the governmental pesticide regulation sector. Altanta, Georgia ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Florida Aquatic Plant Management Society ; invasive species ; Jack Stonebreaker ; Mississippi 17 3461 Work in Atlanta So I took the position, I went to Atlanta... Layne talks about his work in Atlanta, Georgia as chief of the pesticide regulation sector of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne recalls that his work in Atlanta did not give him the same sense of fulfillment as did his work in Florida, which eventually led him to seek work under the Environmental Protection Agency as a field investigator. Layne expands upon his experience in Atlanta, during which he explains that his work as supervisor required the ability to organize expertise in the effort to find solutions to pesticide-related problems. Layne talks about his experience enforcing the Toxic Substances Control Act. (TSCA). Atlanta, Georgia ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Robert McCarty ; Toxic Substances Control Act (TSCA) 17 3868 Experience as a training educator and case developer And then, a former college Layne expands upon the factors that eventually led him to leave his job as the chief of the governmental pesticide regulation sector under the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Layne explains that a colleague who pressed demands on his position eventually encouraged Layne to change positions and conduct work as regulator training educator and case developer for the states of Tennessee, Mississippi, North Carolina, and Florida. Layne recalls that his work was fulfilling, and allowed him to become knowledgeable over the regional aspects of the EPA's regulatory processes. aquatic plant management ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Florida ; Mississippi ; North Carolina 17 4294 Comparing method of state's pesticide control plans Florida was still, pretty much the... Layne talks about Florida's pesticide regulation, which was comprised of two sectors: pesticide/mosquito control and agricultural pesticide control. Layne compares the pesticide management sectors of the states he supervised including South Carolina, Kentucky, and Tennessee. Layne explains that as a project officer in pesticide inspection and management, he discovered that the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) carried out regulations through many different means. Layne talks about the rise of environmental concerns after the publishing of Silent Springs written by Rachel Carson in 1961. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Florida ; Rachel Carson ; Silent Springs ; South Carolina ; Tennessee ; University of Kentucky 17 4688 President Nixon and Environmental Policies / Hunting in Mississippi I find that environmental statutes... Layne explains his belief that Nixon implemented environmental policies as a method to gain influence among environmentalists at the time. Layne recalls a hunting experience in the Mississippi delta during his early years in the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). 1960's environmental movement ; Clean Air Act ; Clean Water Act ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Mayhew Mississippi ; Pesticide Control Act ; Robert McCarty ; Silent Springs 17 5300 Relationships and politics in the southeast There's really a point in that... Layne explains that his boss, Roy Clarke, wanted him to go on a hunting trip early in his career as an Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) inspector so that he might be get to know Mississippi's state government officials. Layne talks about the southeast as a region where relationships are valued in political interactions. Layne states that his networks as an EPA inspector led him to develop an " ; advisory council" ; composed of individuals from many different sectors of governments and industry. Layne recalls an incident concerning the misapplication of a highly toxic insecticide called parathion in Mississippi. Layne explains that the case called for coordination between sectors of government and industries in the effort to address the problem. Chip Morgan ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Jeff Case ; Larry Beasley ; Larry Knight ; Parathion ; Pascagoula, Mississippi ; Robert McCarty ; Syngenta 17 5853 Pascagoula, Mississippi parathion case So they went and went to the dealer... Layne continues to explain how people in Pascagoula, Mississippi came to use a toxic insecticide known as parathion for household application. Layne states that Paul Walls was eventually charged as he was with applying parathion without a license. Layne recalls the response by the government to the event, as some areas became Superfund sites (under seizure by the government, in the effort to clean and control toxic areas). Layne talks about how he, along with the help of his advisers and the media, orchestrated a case against Paul Wells which eventually took on a criminal nature. Dock Eatman ; Parathion ; Pascagoula, Mississippi ; Paul Walls ; Robert McCarty ; Superfund 17 6277 Parathion application remediation Robert arranged for us to meet with the attorney general... Layne talks about how he, along with the help of his advisers and the media, addressed and treated the problems posed by the misapplication of parathion found in Mississippi and Alabama. Layne explains that the incident led to the more extensive implementation of education in the southeast, in an effort to create greater pesticide control. Layne recalls that his advisory board was eventually disbanded due to rules that hindered meetings among groups without approval by an official entity. Layne talks about how increased complexity among hierarchies of administration in the EPA was eventually what led him to leave his position as chief investigator. Alabama ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Mississippi ; North Carolina ; Pascagoula, Missippi 17 6706 EPA investigation cases After I had left the chiefs position... Layne talks about a case in which the pesticide Temik had been used to poison deer carcasses. Layne explains that the perpetrator committed crimes in Georgia though he lived in Florida, which led to an interstate investigation. Layne explains that the intent of the poisoning was to kill the predators of turkey. Layne relates another case in which quail farmers were injecting eggs with pesticides in the effort to kill the predators of the quail. Aldicarb ; EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) ; Man in Full (novel) ; quail ; Temik 17 7060 Quail egg investigation / Political corruption in the EPA So these agents are out in the woods... Layne talks about a pesticide case in which quail farmers were injecting eggs with pesticides in order to kill predators in southern Georgia. Layne explains the process of pursuing litigation against the quail farmers. Layne then recalls that the case was prematurely settled, from what Layne believes, was due to politics. Layne explains that the political corruption in the case is one of the reasons that led Layne to stop working in the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). Department of Natural Resources ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Fish and Wildlife Services ; Furadan ; James Palmer 17 7521 Political influence in Mississippi EPA So the law firm that handled the consolidated case... Layne talks about how in Mississippi, as the EPA chief investigator, he encountered only one case in which one of the parties had political motives. Layne recalls that Frank Mitchener, who served on a federal reserve board in Louisiana, applied an insecticide, Toxaphene, which was banned by the EPA. Layne recalls that it rained after the application, which resulted in the contamination of waterways around the area. Layne describes the process of litigation that followed, and emphasizes the fact that the process was carried out without the influence of politics. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; EPA's Criminal Investigation Division ; Frank M. Mitchener ; King and Spalding LLP. ; Mississippi ; pollution ; Robert McCarty ; Toxaphene 17 7935 Politics in Florida EPA There's nothing in the enforcement response... Layne talks about how political power in Mississippi was usually utilized in a way that benefited the community. Layne then describes how the political climate of the south has changed in a way that supports diplomacy and faster position turnover. Layne recalls however, in Florida, politics often influenced the order in which EPA cases were addressed. Layne talks about how, occasionally, those who owned large amounts of agricultural land were often not punished as severely when they imposed regulations created by the EPA. Bureau Plant Industry ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Florida ; Mississippi ; Politics 17 8334 Floridian politics in EPA (cont.) / Typical Mississippi cases And it didn't really make a difference... Layne talks about the effects of Floridian politics on the way that Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) cases were handled ; as cases that involved political figures were handled with urgency. Layne explains that, under his supervision as the chief investigator, he didn't see any evidence of purposely fixed investigations. Layne describes the majority of Mississippian pesticide-related cases as " ; drift cases" ; , where herbicides such as 24D Amine would evaporate due to its high volatility. Layne talks about how the decrease of inspectors conducting field work has led to an increase of misinformation among members of the EPA. 24D Amine ; drift case ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act (FIFRA) ; Florida ; Museum of Natural History ; North Carolina ; politics 17 8909 Lack of field experience in the EPA Most of the folks that we get... Layne talks about how many EPA inspectors don't have an education in the sciences, and instead are liberal art/ journalism majors. Layne emphasizes how the lack of experience and understanding of the scientific method among EPA workers has led to an increase of misinformation in the sector. Layne explains the lack of knowledge among EPA officials as some do not know how to collect samples, though they are given supervision over the many EPA investigations. agronomy ; entomology ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Florida Fruit & ; Vegetable Association ; land grant university ; Office of Compliance and Monitoring 17 9283 Consequences of misinformation in the EPA I got a call... Layne talks about a previous conversation he had with the EPA inspector general. Layne relates a story in which the EPA, because of the lack of inspector training, was approving imported pesticides that posed potential threats to the environment or human health. Layne talks about he voiced his concerns about the department to the new EPA chief inspector. Layne recalls one of the few agricultural related pesticide poisonings over his career as an EPA inspector. Layne explains that most pesticide poisonings were caused by carelessness and misuse of pesticides. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Parathion ; U.S Department of Homeland Security ; U.S. Government Accountability Office (GAO) 17 9738 Importance of pesticide application education In the delta, the biggest issue... Layne talks about how in the Mississippi Delta, the heat poses a risk for those who are required to dress heavily for the process of pesticide preparation. Layne explains how, with increased pesticide concentration, there is an increased requirement for protective clothing. Layne emphasizes the need for pesticide prep workers to receive training as to educate them on the risk associated with pesticide preparation. Layne talks about the lack of consideration given to the health of workers in the agricultural community who may not have many rights including the legal and illegal immigrant population. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; immigrant workers ; Mississippi ; pesticide 17 10192 Delegative authority in the EPA If you read the statute... Layne continues explaining the failure of the EPA to recognize the need for education among immigrants, both legal and illegal, over procedures necessary for pesticide handling and management. Layne talks about how the creation of programs by the EPA in the 1980's to address the issue were superficial in nature and did not serve to remediate the effects of misinformation among workers. Layne explains the delegative authority given to EPA inspectors, as inspectors were given the duty of enabling legislation and updating regulation in the creation of state plans that meet EPA requirements. delegation ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; immigrant workers ; pesticide ; regulation ; remediation 17 10643 Implementation of EPA standards And then once that's done... Layne talks about the process of implementing state plans. Layne explains the process of delegation for the enforcement of EPA regulations. Layne emphasizes the need for funding and qualified workers among the EPA. Layne explains that the current adversary of the states towards the EPA on both the federal and state level, has effected the processes required for the protection of human health and the environment. Layne explains the possible need for increased federal supervision and delegation in the implementation in EPA standards. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; federal regulation ; implementation ; regulation 17 11061 Racial history and political alignment So you mentioned the southern democrat... Layne talks about how the political alignment of African Americans towards the democratic party after the era of Reconstruction resulted in blacks being forced to vote Democratic, shortly after the retrieval of the martial presence in the southern states. Layne relates how, in the 1970's while living in the south, he often observed ballots which excluded runners who didn't align politically with the majority of whites at the time. Ben Butler ; Civil War ; democrat ; discrimination ; Jim Crow Laws ; Mississippi delta ; political alignment ; Redemption by Nicholas Lemann ; Rutherford B. Hayes 17 11517 Influence of racial relations in Mississippi And also from a historical standpoint... Layne talks about how the enslaved population in the 19th century South has effected the demographics of the current population in southern states. Layne explains that he grew up accustomed to interacting with African Americans throughout both his early life and his career. Layne explains that as an enforcement inspector for the EPA, he did not perceive any racial bias during his career. Layne recalls, however, that throughout his career, he often wondered whether blacks were ever made aware of their rights guaranteed through the EPA and the federal law. Benny Thompson ; Environmental Protection Agency ; Georgia ; James Whitman ; Mississippi ; slave population ; slavery ; South Carolina 17 11833 African American presence in the EPA It wasn't until, I'm gonna say... Layne explains that, throughout his career, he rarely interacted with African Americans who were inspectors or EPA officials. Layne states that many minorities were targeted by both government and industries as institutions had " ; unofficial" ; quotas to meet. Layne recalls how in many pesticide perpetration (usually distributors of the toxic pesticide parathion) cases, the perpetrators were African American and were selling to fellow African Americans. African American ; Bureau of Plant Industries ; emulsification ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; Mississippi Delta ; Parathion 17 12300 Reasons behind pesticide misapplication in the south It kinda gets to your question... Layne explains that lack of education and knowledge over the dangers posed by parathion was due to a fear of government officials, including EPA inspectors among African Americans working in poor agricultural communities. Layne talks about how the poor housing among workers in southern states led to such extensive infestations that pesticide control companies would not provide services for fear of breaking pesticide application regulations. Layne explains that because there was no pesticide service provided for these communities, " ; entrepreneurs" ; without training or certification would often apply poisonous pesticides to households, which would eventually lead to investigation conducted by the EPA. agriculture ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; parathion ; Pest Control 17 12774 Pesticide misapplication in the south (cont.) / DDT politics So the black applicators then... Layne explains the investigative process performed by the EPA in the pursuit of evidence of pesticide misapplication among the poor, typically African American resident agricultural workers. Layne talks about how the new increased cost of pesticides has led to decreased misuse of pesticides. Layne explains that pesticide chemicals such as DDT were cancelled by the EPA due to political reasons instead of evidence-based science. Layne describes his position that the risks posed by malaria in many third world countries outweighed the benefit of refraining from DDT usage. chlorinated hydrocarbon ; DDT ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; herbicide ; Mississippi Delta 17 13473 The Mississippi Agricultural Aviation Community Did you have good relationships with some farmers in the delta? Layne recalls that throughout his career in the EPA, he did not form many relationships with farmers, though he did maintain a few connections with the agricultural aviation community. Layne recalls that the agricultural aviation community was a self-regulating community. Layne explains that the lack of regulatory governmental enforcement over the aviation community led to the corruption of some pesticide-related investigations. Layne talks about how, as the EPA chief investigator, he formed agreements between the EPA, Plant Bureau Industries, and the agricultural aviation community of Mississippi that organized and delegated the regulations of the agricultural aviation community. agricultural aviation ; Bureau of Plant Industries ; Edgar Hobbs ; investigations ; Mississippi Delta ; pesticide 17 13896 The end of the agricultural aviation community / Duck hunting in Mississippi So then the ag-aviation board was done away with... Layne explains that because the regulative power of the Agricultural Aviation Board was divided among the EPA and the Plant Bureau Industries, the Mississippi Agricultural Aviation Board was eventually terminated. Layne relates a story of his experience in a duck-hunting club, in which he knew a man called David Lewis, who assisted him in locating the migrated duck population. agricultural aviation community ; David Lewis ; duck hunting ; Environmental Protection Agency ; Mississippi Agricultural Aviation Board ; Plant Bureau Industries 17 14307 Pesticides and the public opinion / Concluding thoughts Do you have anything that you think... Layne talks about how the public opinion over pesticides hinders the eradication of invasive species. Layne talks about how on a national level, ignorance portrayed among people and the media hinders progress in agriculture. Layne talks about how his purpose as a pesticides educator is to invoke questions, and assist people in challenging misinformation. Layne opines that pesticide regulation should not be a sector in the Environmental Protection Agency, as it is a conflict of interests. Layne explains that pesticide regulation is an optimization process, in which the benefit often outweighs the risk. Department of Agriculture ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; herbicide ; invasive aquatic species ; pesticide ; pesticide regulation 17 No transcript. audio Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. 0 RBRL420MA-017.xml RBRL420MA-017.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA/findingaid
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Marietta, Georgia
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257 minutes
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with Carlton Layne, October 29, 2016
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RBRL420MA-017
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Carlton Layne
Brian Williams
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oral histories
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sound
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Mississippi
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United States--Officials and employees
Pesticides
Environmental policy
Environmental health
Southern States--Politics and government
Race relations
Race
Politics and Public Policy
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Carlton Layne grew up in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. He received an education at Clarion State University, leading him to work for the U.S Department of Agriculture and eventually the Environmental Protection Agency. In this interview, Layne talks about his career and experiences as an EPA inspector. Layne addresses topics including the EPA regulation process, EPA pesticide investigations, politics in government, and EPA state plans for U.S southern states.
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2016-10-29
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Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection
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Agriculture
Mississippi--History
Agriculture and Industry
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The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection is comprised of interviews whose research focus is on the environmental, social, and technological aspects of agricultural change in the Yazoo-Mississippi Delta. Interviews were conducted with a variety of subjects, including large-scale and small-scale farmers, former agricultural workers, civil rights activists, extension agents, and agro-industrial sector workers, documenting their experience of the agricultural industrialization process during the mid to late twentieth century.<br /><br /><span>The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection was donated to the Russell Library in 2017 by Brian Williams, a doctoral candidate in the Geography Department at the University of Georgia. All interviews were conducted by Williams as primary source research, spanning across various states in the southeastern United States, including Mississippi, Tennessee, and Georgia.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=16&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a><br /></span>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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2016
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RBRL420MA
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Mississippi
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Brian Williams
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA-019/ohms
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5.4 Interview with Samuel McCray, November 2, 2016 RBRL420MA-019 RBRL420MA Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Samuel McCray Brian Williams oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_dvzqvu3z& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_xbch1pcf" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 10 Early life and education Mr. McCray, you were telling me you were born between Lambert and Marks? McCray describes being raised by his grandparents who were sharecroppers on a plantation. He discusses the close-knit community of African Americans on the plantation. McCray briefly mentions attending Delta State University, becoming the director of social services for an organization, and getting married. Clarksdale, Mississippi ; education ; family ; high school ; Holmes Community College ; Lambert, Mississippi ; Marks, Mississippi ; marriage 17 415 Grandparents Did your grandparents grow up on that same plantation or did they come from elsewhere? McCray describes his grandparents lives, talking about how they migrated to the Delta and worked as farmers. He discusses how his grandmother was light-skinned and had a white grandfather who spent time with the family but was not married to her grandmother. He talks about how his grandmother got married at 13 to his grandfather, and he discusses how they rented land for farming. McCray talks about how his grandparents switched to sharecropping from renting land as they got older which meant they had less control over their farming. marriage ; plantations ; sharecroppers ; tenant farming ; white-passing 17 986 Race relations I think most people that we knew--even white--was decent people. McCray talks about how most white people were decent, but he says that the system of racial oppression forced people to fulfill expected racial roles. He discusses how many white people knew and felt guilty about the fact that they were exploiting African Americans, but they continued to oppress African Americans in order to maintain their own privilege. He talks about how black people and poor white people were deliberately kept separate to prevent them from fighting the economic system that victimized them both. He talks about the danger of white women to black men because black men faced racial violence if white women accused them of misconduct. internalized racism ; plantation owners ; poverty ; racial stereotypes ; racism ; segregation ; sharecroppers ; white privilege 17 2189 Civil Rights Movement Were there ever any moments when you just, like, kind of stepped out of there, took a step back, and thought this was absolutely ludicrous? Why do they have all this, you know? McCray discusses the local impact of the Civil Rights Movement. He describes how students challenged school segregation and fought to integrate the schools which lead the administration to implement strict regulations about who could go to school in order to limit integration. McCray describes the reluctance of Black church leadership to become involved in the Civil Rights Movement until Martin Luther King Jr's death galvanized the community. adoption ; freedom of choice system ; Jim Crow ; media ; MLK ; plantations ; textbooks ; Vietnam War 17 3045 Challenging the plantation system When your conscience started, you know, becoming more open to or aware of some of the things that were going on, did that--were there any shifts in the way that you perceived agriculture? McCray describes how sharecroppers knew that they were being mistreated by the land owners but did not see a way out. He talks about inequality in the educational system and how African Americans need to learn from history and advocate for themselves. McCray says limited resource farmers and minority farmers now have an opportunity to support themselves and benefit from crop insurance if they are properly trained. Christianity ; education ; lynching ; Martin Luther King Jr. ; plantation system ; racial discrimination ; racial violence ; religion ; separate but equal ; sharecropping ; small-scale farming ; tenant farming 17 3788 Educational and economic development And I think the importance of us looking at education too because the ADA tracks the child into school. McCray emphasizes the importance of education. He talks about how the population of Quitman County has drastically decreased over his lifetime, and he says that elected officials need to critically evaluate the town in order to promote development and stop the out-migration. human resources ; infrastructure ; local government ; prayer ; private schools ; property taxes ; public schools 17 4217 Agricultural changes So to go, I guess, way back, what were some of the technological changes that you saw on plantations when you were there? McCray talks about the mechanization of agriculture which caused many people to lose their jobs as herbicides replaced chopping cotton and mechanical pickers replaced picking cotton by hand. He describes how he was able to stay in school the full year once the plantation owner started using mechanical pickers because he no longer had to miss school during harvest season. McCray talks about how many sharecroppers and field hands were kicked off plantations once the government began to offer farmers subsidies for vacant productive land. However, he says that leaving the plantations was good because many people were able to get decent housing under the USDA Homeownership Direct Loan Program. 502 housing program ; college ; education ; homeownership ; sharecroppers ; The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) 17 4716 Agricultural chemicals and cancer Did you ever have any experiences with or see any affects of, you know, chemicals? McCray describes how many people who lived and worked on plantations died from cancer which he blames on the agricultural chemicals. He talks about the many people in his family who died of cancer, and he mentions a local doctor who warned about the dangers of agricultural chemicals. carcinogens ; herbicides ; highboy tractor ; illness ; pesticides 17 5032 Food plot When your grandparents were on the plantation when you were growing up, did y'all have a food plot? McCray describes his grandparents' two gardens where they grew their own food on the plantation. He talks about how his grandmother canned fruits and preserved meats in order to feed the family during the winter. McCray discusses how growing their own food helped his family stay out of debt to the plantation owner because they did not have to buy many things at the plantation store. He describes how plantation owners would limit people's ability to have gardens by expanding the fields to the edges of sharecroppers' houses. agricultural chemicals ; cancer ; livestock ; loans ; pesticides ; sharecroppers ; vegetables 17 5530 Mississippi Action For Community Education (MACE) You told me you were working with Mississippi Action for community education with agriculture. McCray describes his involvement beginning in 1990 with Mississippi Action For Community Education (MACE). He talks about giving small grants to limited resource farmers in order to encourage them to raise livestock and produce. He describes advocating for legislative redistricting in Mississippi in order to increase representation for Clarke County. He also discusses working to build a processing plant in the area to help farmers preserve and distribute crops. Alcorn State University ; community organizing ; cooperative ; Empowerment Zones and Enterprise Communities Act of 1993. ; farmer's market ; grants ; lobbying ; Quitman County Development Organization ; sewer system 17 6246 Poor People's Campaign Were you involved in the 1960s with the mule trade and the Poor People's March. McCray talks about becoming involved in the Poor People's Campaign after Willie Bolden from the Southern Christian Leadership Conference was arrested at his school for talking about the importance of protest and the Civil Rights Movement. McCray describes following other students to the jail to demand Bolden's release where he was beaten by the police. He says that the proudest time of his life was his involvement with the Poor People's Campaign and the Civil Rights Movement Andrew Young ; high school ; Hosea Williams ; Pell Grants ; Quitman County Mule and Blues Festival ; Rev. James Bevel ; walkout 17 https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/2015/03/25/extensions-of-remarks-section/article/E411-1 Congressional record honoring McCray No transcript. audio Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. 0 RBRL420MA-019.xml RBRL420MA-019.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA/findingaid
Location
The location of the interview
Marks, Mississippi
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
121 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Interview with Samuel McCray, November 2, 2016
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL420MA-019
Creator
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Samuel McCray
Brian Williams
Format
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audio
oral histories
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
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sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Mississippi
Subject
The topic of the resource
Race relations
Civil rights
Segregation
School integration
Discrimination
Nonprofit organizations
African Americans--History
United States--Civil rights
Description
An account of the resource
Samuel McCray was born in 1949 near Lambert. He was raised by his grandparents who were sharecroppers on a plantation. He attended Delta State University and he worked for various nonprofits before becoming a Field Representative and Caseworker in Marks, Mississippi. In this interview, he talks about growing up on a plantation and his involvement in the Civil Rights Movement.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-11-02
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Mississippi--History
Agriculture and Industry
Description
An account of the resource
The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection is comprised of interviews whose research focus is on the environmental, social, and technological aspects of agricultural change in the Yazoo-Mississippi Delta. Interviews were conducted with a variety of subjects, including large-scale and small-scale farmers, former agricultural workers, civil rights activists, extension agents, and agro-industrial sector workers, documenting their experience of the agricultural industrialization process during the mid to late twentieth century.<br /><br /><span>The Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection was donated to the Russell Library in 2017 by Brian Williams, a doctoral candidate in the Geography Department at the University of Georgia. All interviews were conducted by Williams as primary source research, spanning across various states in the southeastern United States, including Mississippi, Tennessee, and Georgia.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=16&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a><br /></span>
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL420MA
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Mississippi
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Brian Williams
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA-021/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Frank Mitchener, August 15, 2016 RBRL420MA-021 RBRL420MA Mississippi Agriculture Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Frank MItchener Brian Williams oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_obhc6hw2& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_wvr7fk17" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 20 Childhood and grandfather So to begin with, could you tell me a bit about your childhood? Mitchener talks about his happy childhood in Sumner, Mississippi where he rode around the countryside and biked across town. He describes how the land was divided into small plots that were farmed by black sharecroppers. He discusses how his grandfather bought land near Sumner after fighting for the Confederacy. Mitchener talks about the negative affect of the Great Depression on land prices in the area. 15th Regiment, Mississippi Infantry ; Battle of Atlanta ; Battle of Franklin ; cash crops ; Cassidy Bayou ; College Hill Presbyterian Church ; College Hill, Mississippi ; cotton prices ; Dollar Cotton by John Faulkner ; horses ; Maury, Tennessee ; Mississippi Delta ; prisoner of war (POW) ; sharecropping ; slavery ; tenant farming ; The Civil War ; United States Army 17 658 Education, farming experience, and race relations And, so I would imagine that some of this land along the bayou was some of the most valuable? Mitchener talks about how the land along the Cassidy Bayou is productive for growing cotton due to its surface and internal drainage ability. He describes attending McCallie School, a boarding school in Chattanooga, Tennessee, before going to Davidson College in North Carolina. He talks about the prevalence of sharecropping in the Delta region, but he states that he employed wage laborers when he started farming part of his father's land in 1957. Mitchener describes how the Civil Rights Movement reached Sumner with the Emmett Till trial that was held in the local court house, but he says that the movement wasn't a big issue beyond the trial. He also talks about expanding his farm by leasing other land and working the land his siblings inherited after their father's death. chopping cotton ; family ; inheritance ; land owners ; racism ; sandy loam ; sharecroppers ; silt loam ; tenant farmers ; tractors ; United States Army 17 1238 Agricultural changes So you said that in the 1950s, chemical weedant didn't come about. When did that come about? Mitchener describes how chemical herbicides and insecticides increased cotton yields, and he mentions how farmers would hire entomologists to check crops for insects and make insecticide recommendations. He talks about the mechanization of farming and the introduction of genetically modified crops in the 1990s. He mentions how there was not much involvement in the Civil Rights Movement beyond the Emmett Till trial and school integration. < ; i> ; Delta Rainbow: The Irrepressible Betty Bobo Pearson < ; /i> ; ; boll weevil ; Boll Weevil Eradication program ; boll worm ; cotton scouts ; DDT ; Dr. George Mullendore ; Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ; insect resistance ; karmex herbicide ; mechanical harvesters ; mechanical pickers ; pesticides ; Roundup Ready crops 17 1924 Delta Council and National Cotton Council You became, uh, if I remember correctly from what I have seen in publications. Were you the president of the Delta Counsel at one point? Mitchener talks about his experiences as president of the Delta Council and the National Cotton Council which he describes as the most powerful commodity councils at the time of his office. He describes working to improve cotton commodity prices and flood control while supporting national agricultural legislation and deregulation. agricultural policy ; agricultural support prices ; flooding ; insect control ; irrigation ; leadership ; regulation ; water stewardship ; weed control ; well licenses ; wells 17 2481 Fighting cotton dust regulation We had a regulation in our textile mills about the amount of what they call cotton dust. Mitchener describes how he advocated to remove regulations regarding cotton dust in textile mills that were put into place to protect workers from byssinosis, or brown lung. He states that the National Cotton Council conducted research into byssinosis and found that it only affected smokers which he said made the regulations unnecessary. He talks about meeting with President Reagan and Vice President Bush and working with them to deregulate cotton dust. Byssinosis (brown lung) ; deregulation ; James " ; Jim" ; Baker ; labor unions ; lobbying ; lobbyist ; President George H. W. Bush ; President Ronald Reagan 17 2865 Senator Cochran and Representative Whitten What were some of the losers? Mitchener describes how he worked with other agricultural leaders to appoint Thad Cochran, a new senator, to the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry. They persuaded Senator Eastland to retire three weeks early and got the current governor, Cliff Finch, to appoint Cochran in Eastland's place which gave Cochran seniority over other new senators and enabled him to join the agriculture committee. Mitchener also describes his friendly relationship with Representative Whitten who was the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee. deregulation ; exercise ; golf ; lobbying ; lobbyist ; regulations ; Republicans ; tennis ; United States Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry ; walking 17 3209 Agricultural chemicals and the organization of the National Cotton Council What were some of the other regulations you faced when you were an agricultural leader? Mitchener describes his work with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) to get certain agricultural chemicals approved, mentioning various herbicides including Karmex, Treflan, Fusilade, and Roundup. Mitchener describes how the National Cotton Council is divided into seven segments: producers, ginners, warehousers, merchants cottonseed, cooperatives, and manufacturers. He talks about how each segment has veto power over policy which he credits for promoting unity within the organization. American Textile Manufacturers Institute (ATMI) ; chemical drift ; Delta Council ; free market ; GMO (genetically modified organism) ; Johnsongrass ; lobbying ; pigweed ; price floor ; productivity ; Stonewall, Mississippi 17 3641 Farming operation So what--when did you retire from farming? Mitchener describes how he retired from farming in 2001 because he had over-expanded his farm, and it became too expensive. He talks about using computer technology to model cotton plants which he said increased his knowledge of the plant but did not affect his yields. computer modeling ; downsizing ; International Business Machines (IBM) ; retirement ; technology 17 3986 Insect control And so I remember--when I was going over the George Mullendore archives he kept on telling this story about how you had decided that it was too early to defoliate. Was he embellishing that story? Mitchener describes the influence of scientists George Mullendore and Jack Mooney on his successful decision to control tarnished plant bugs which many farmers did not do at the time due to the expense of insecticides. He also talks about the problem of the tobacco budworm which became resistant to many pesticides. He talks about how he was the first farmer to use Bt cotton, a genetically modified cotton which produces toxins harmful to insects. Africa ; boll worm ; Deltapine ; genetic engineering ; genetically modified organism (GMO) ; green revolution ; Lygus lineolaris ; Monsanto ; organic foods ; pesticides 17 4509 Changes in the Delta So back to the Delta, what has been the relationship between, you know, agriculture and people's well being in the Delta? Mitchener talks about how the mechanization of agriculture has caused many people to lose their jobs. He describes how people are being replaced by technology in every sector of the economy which he says will continue to happen. He states that the future of the Delta is in large-scale agriculture and not in industry. agricultural technology ; automobiles ; computers ; cotton pickers ; skilled labor ; The Great Migration ; tractors ; unemployment 17 No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 RBRL420MA-021.xml RBRL420MA-021.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL420MA/findingaid
Location
The location of the interview
Sumner, Mississippi
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
83 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Frank Mitchener, August 15, 2016
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL420MA-021
Creator
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Frank MItchener
Brian Williams
Format
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audio
oral histories
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Mississippi
Subject
The topic of the resource
Pesticides
Race relations
Environmental policy
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
Frank Mitchener was born in 1933 in Sumner, Mississippi. He attended Davidson College before serving in the army for two years. Mitchener was a farmer and agricultural leader in the Delta. He served as the president of the Delta Council and the National Cotton Council. In this interview, he talks about advocating for the deregulation of the cotton industry and the impact of pesticides on agriculture.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-08-15
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
South Georgia Civil Rights Oral History Collections
Subject
The topic of the resource
Civil rights
African Americans--History
Georgia--History, Local
United States--Civil rights
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
Oral histories with members of the Albany Movement’s civil rights campaign in southwest Georgia document that time period as well as the local politics and initiatives in its aftermath. “In November 1961, residents of Albany, Georgia, launched an ambitious campaign to eliminate segregation in all facets of local life. The movement captured national attention one month later when local leaders invited Martin Luther King, Jr. to join the protest. Despite King's involvement, the movement failed to secure concessions from local officials and was consequently deemed unsuccessful by many observers. Subsequent appraisals, however, have identified the movement as a formative learning experience for King and other civil rights organizers, and credited it with hastening the ultimate desegregation of Albany's facilities, which occurred only one year following the movement's conclusion in August 1962.”<br /><br />All interviews in this collection have been indexed in OHMS.
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-2018
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL424SGCR
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Albany, Georgia
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
James Wall
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Tommy Coleman, December 13, 2017 RBRL424SGCR-004 RBRL424SGCR South Georgia Civil Rights Oral History Collection Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Tommy Coleman James Wall 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_g633wwx5& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true& ; & ; wid=1_v6l5apir" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; sandbox=" ; allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 27 Growing Up in Albany Uh, that being out of the way... Tommy Coleman was born in Albany, GA to Franklin and Freddie Coleman. He discusses his family history and origins across the state of Georgia. In his experience as a white child, Albany was a good place to grow up, albeit completely segregated. He recalls being in the first integrated high school class his sophomore year. Albany High School ; Albany Movement ; Atlantic Coast Line Railroad ; Coleman Opticians ; Edison, GA ; Fort Gaines, Ga ; Freedom of Choice Plan ; Hamilton Jordan ; integration ; Mercer University ; Monroe, GA ; Phoebe Putney Memorial Hospital ; Poulan, GA ; segregation 377 Desegregation of Albany It may be a little too young for you to remember... Coleman explains how Albany exhibited extreme resistance to the Brown v. Board decision and desegregation. He shares his relations with a few Civil Rights Activists such as McCree Harris, Rutha Harris, and Goldie Jackson. He recalls some of the features of segregation in downtown Albany and the progression of his parents' expression of their views. < ; i> ; A Boy from Georgia: Coming of Age in the Segregated South< ; /i> ; ; Albany Movement ; Brown v. Board of Education ; Civil Rights Movement ; Dougherty County School System ; Dougherty County, GA ; Hamilton Jordan ; Integration ; Martin Luther King Jr. (MLK) ; The Freedom Singers 738 College Experiences When you, uh, when it was- when it came down... Coleman relays his attitude upon learning that his class was the first to be integrated in Albany. He discusses his time at Darton State College, as well as travelling and working for Bill Stuckey the summer before. He later transferred to the University of Georgia where he continued to work with Stuckey. Albany High School ; Albany, GA ; Carlyle Ramsey ; Darton State College (Albany State University West Campus) ; integration ; John Herschel Glenn Jr. ; UGA ; Williamson Sylvester Stuckey Jr. 1196 Albany Politics So, at what point did you decide... Coleman explains that he initially went to Journalism school with the intention of being a press secretary. He returned to Albany to work and ran for city commissioner. He shares his opinion and relationship with C.B. King, discussing his campaign for governor. He recalls several people who helped to support the Albany Movement. 1972 Albany Workers' Strike ; Albany, GA ; Bo Jackson ; Chevene Bowers " ; C. B." ; King ; Goldie Jackson ; Johnson v. City of Albany, Ga. ; Martin Luther King Jr. (MLK) ; McCree Harris ; Motie Wiggins ; Rev. E. James Grant ; Reverend H.C. Boyd 1646 African Americans in Albany Politics In the seventies, as I understand it... Coleman explains the discriminatory aspects of the district system of Albany and the effects of redrawing district lines during the mayoral election. His discusses being on the first city council in Albany with African American councilmen. Albany, GA ; Herbert E. Phipps ; James Harrison Gray, Sr. ; Mary Moss Young-Cummings ; Robert Montgomery ; Wilbur Dawson Owens Jr. 2176 James Harrison Gray, Sr. I was wondering if you could talk more... Coleman discusses the role of James Gray in Albany politics, such as how he became mayor after the death of Motie Wiggins. He mentions Gray's chance to be governor of Georgia, losing to Jimmy Carter. Coleman also explains the prevalence of the Republican and Democratic parties in Albany. Albany, GA ; Dougherty County, Ga ; Ellis Gibbs Arnall ; James Earl Carter Jr. ; Lester Garfield Maddox Sr. ; Morton McLaughlin “Motie” Wiggins 2580 Work in Politics I see. So, in the seventies you... Coleman discusses serving as city commissioner and mayor pro tempore, as well as being removed by James Gray. He mentions his time having worked for a few politicians and passing the opportunity to work with Jimmy Carter. < ; i> ; Southern Politics in State and Nation < ; /i> ; ; Albany, GA ; Bill Miller ; Carl Edward Sanders Sr. ; George Dekle Busbee Sr. ; James Earl Carter Jr ; James Harrison Gray, Sr. ; Valdimer Orlando Key Jr. (V. O. Key) ; Williamson Sylvester " ; Bill" ; Stuckey Jr. 3029 Continuing politics and Practicing Law When the Reagan revolution came... Coleman shares that he gave politics outside of Albany a thought but never acted on it. He feels that his current career fits him and he would not be able to run another political campaign. He discusses the adjustment period after being mayor for ten years to being a lawyer representing the city. 1964 United States presidential election ; 1980 United States presidential election ; Albany, Ga ; Barry Morris Goldwater ; Reagan Era (Age of Reagan) 3383 Lee County School Board Uh, when did you first become mayor? Coleman provides a timeline of his switching between mayor and lawyer. He discusses his work to lift the active school board order and what he believes to be the purpose of Deerfield private school. Coleman mentions his observations of the decrease of the white population in Lee County as citizens segregate themselves. Albany High School ; Albany, GA ; C. W. Grant ; Deerfield-Windsor Lower School ; desegregation ; Flint River flood ; Johnnie Johnson Jr. ; Johnson v. City of Albany, Ga ; Lee County, GA ; Paul Keenan ; Wilbur Dawson Owens Jr. 3795 Flint River Rumors/ Race and Politics So, the flood, um... Coleman feels that the Flint River flood played a large role in the city's decrease in the white population. He explains the start of rumors that the flood water had been diverted and Mary Young-Cummings' role in it. Coleman discusses the different expectations of black and white city officials and the split within the black community. Albany Movement ; Albany, GA ; Janice Allen Jackson ; John White ; Mary Moss Young-Cummings ; Paul Keenan 4158 Getting Out of Politics So, when you- why did you decide... Coleman explains that he is still involved in politics in a different manner, doing work for cities in south Georgia after choosing to not be directly involved. Ashburn, GA ; Camilla, GA ; Jimmy Skipper ; Mary Michelle Nunn ; Samuel Augustus Nunn Jr. ; Sylvester, GA Oral History No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL424SGCR/findingaid
Location
The location of the interview
Albany, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
73 minutes
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL424SGCR-004/ohms
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Tommy Coleman, December 13, 2017
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL424SGCR-004
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Tommy Coleman
James Wall
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-12-13
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Albany, Georgia
Subject
The topic of the resource
Local government
Race relations
Segregation
School integration
Description
An account of the resource
Tommy Coleman was born in 1948 in Albany, Georgia. He served as the Mayor of Albany for ten years and continues to practice law in South Georgia. In this interview, Coleman discusses his role in Albany politics and the various tensions that were present between the black and white community. He explains the role of some influential people in Albany and the effect of the Flint River flood.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Two-Party Georgia Oral History Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
Political parties
Two-party systems
Georgia--History
Georgia--Politics and government
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
The Two-Party Georgia Oral History Project documents how the Georgia Republican Party grew from a small grassroots party during an era of Democratic dominance into the state’s premiere political organization and governing party over the course of the late-twentieth and early twenty-first centuries. Interview participants represent current and former Republican and Democratic political figures who were active contributors or commenters on this transformation between 1952-2016, with a primary focus on the years post-1974.The collection documents the personal experiences and insights of the candidates, officeholders, activists, organizers, strategists, and analysts who participated in those key campaigns, intraparty conflicts, policy debates, and legislative battles. It also documents the accounts of the journalists and scholars who have chronicled these activities and achievements.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=4&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-ongoing
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL425TPGA
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL425TPGA-042/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Roy Barnes and Bob Irvin, February 28, 2018 RBRL425TPGA-042 RBRL425TPGA Two-Party Georgia Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Roy Barnes Bob Irvin Ashton Ellett oral history 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_ubmucnli& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_v3kn6e70" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 56 Introduction to politics I was hoping we could begin with both of you telling us how you got into politics. Irvin and Barnes both discuss their early interests in politics as well as why they first decided to run for office. Barnes comments how he began his political interests as a Republican due to Lester Maddox alienating him from the Democrats, but then switched to the Democratic Party after Richard Nixon's impeachment, just before running for the state senate in 1974. " ; Lincoln Republicans" ; ; 1970 gubernatorial race ; 1971 reapportionment ; candidate recruitment ; Cobb County, Georgia ; Fletcher Thompson ; Fulton County, Georgia ; Gerald Ford ; Hal Suit ; Jimmy Bentley ; Jimmy Carter ; party organization ; population growth ; Roswell, Georgia ; Young Republicans 362 Speaker Tom Murphy You both came into the legislature- House and Senate- in 1975. Irvin and Barnes evaluate Tom Murphy as the Speaker of the House in Georgia's House of Representatives, with Irvin contrasting him with George L. Smith, the speaker during Irvin's first year in the legislature. Though both describe Murphy as an effective leader and a benefit to both rural Georgians and the city of Atlanta, Barnes and Irvin do criticize Murphy for his unnecessarily harsh, belittling attitude toward his fellow members. " ; night-and-day coalition" ; ; " ; Pine Tree Mafia" ; ; " ; Wool Hat Boys" ; ; Al Burruss ; Georgia World Congress Center ; Joe Mac Wilson ; leadership style ; lieutenant governor ; loyalty ; majority leader ; MARTA ; metro Atlanta ; moderation ; presiding officer ; rural legislators ; urban-and-rural coalition ; Zell Miller 720 Georgia General Assembly in the 1970s In the 1970s, what were the top priorities that the General Assembly had to grapple with? Irvin and Barnes list the various issues that the Georgia General Assembly tackled during their services in the 1970s, including budgeting, infrastructure-building, and education. Irvin and Barnes also talk about their respective friendships with Paul Coverdell, who they both admired for his commitment to help the people he served, even through bipartisan means, despite his role as a partisan actor. 1975 budget cuts ; bipartisanship ; Cobb County, Georgia ; committee chairman ; demographic change ; downtown Atlanta ; fiscal responsibility ; Fletcher Thompson ; George L. Smith ; Georgia State University ; Georgia World Congress Center ; government offices ; Hartsfield-Jackson International Airport ; institutional growth ; Johnny Isakson ; Lester Maddox ; MARTA ; moderation ; nationalized politics ; partisan divide ; Pierre Howard ; polarization ; population growth ; public school teachers ; Richard Nixon ; salary cuts ; small government ; Speaker of the House ; state budget ; state resources ; state senate ; Watergate scandal 1339 Nationalized politics I think we spoke earlier about this in our interview- is there a Georgia Democrat anymore? Irvin and Barnes comment on the nationalization of party politics, to the point where the term " ; Georgia Democrat" ; no longer divides one ideologically from the national Democratic Party. They do note that while nationalization and polarization have most affected the candidates that parties recruit and nominate, the independent voters that elections rely on keep the parties from swaying too far from the political center. 1970 gubernatorial race ; Al Burruss ; candidate recruitment ; civility ; conservatism ; educated voters ; George McGovern ; Hubert Humphrey ; ideological purity ; Jimmy Carter ; majority party ; minority party ; moderation ; national Democrats ; party organization ; polling ; population growth ; primary election voters ; pro-business ; suburban areas ; young voters 1900 Republicans and race relations And then the other thing that attracted me, as I said, was Democrats were pretty harsh- rural Democrats particularly, and the urban Democrats hadn't changed that much- were pretty rough on race relations. Irvin and Barnes remark how civility and friendship between political opponents can lead to great legislative successes, citing cooperation between Lyndon B. Johnson and Everett Dirksen to pass the Civil Rights Act of 1964 as the primary example. They then credit Jack Kemp, as well as the bipartisan movement to recognize Martin Luther King Jr. Day, for eliminating fringe racism from the conservative movement. anti-Catholicism ; anti-Semitism ; Bob Bell ; conservatism ; Jim Tysinger ; Johnny Isakson ; Mike Egan ; Paul Coverdell ; Ronald Reagan ; state flag ; William F. Buckley 2343 Georgia in the 1990s You've mentioned how times have changed and- how did the parties, the legislatures, the priorities, the challenges facing the state, how are they different in the 1990s, when you're both serving in the House of Representatives? Irvin and Barnes note that most of the changes to Georgia in the 1990s compared to the 1970s was due to the rise of suburban areas at the expense of rural Georgia's population and political influence. They explain that this continued change has led to more moderate and independent voters in Georgia, which along with the increased black voter turnout, has led to the two-party competition in recent Georgia politics. 1990 election ; 1994 elecion ; 2002 election ; 2002 gubernatorial race ; 2008 election ; agriculture ; Albany, Georgia ; Barack Obama ; coalition building ; Cobb County, Georgia ; depopulation ; George Busbee ; greenspace ; Gwinnett County, Georgia ; Irwin County, Georgia ; Joe Frank Harris ; Joe Mack Wilson ; John Oxendine ; Johnny Isakson ; Linda Schrenko ; Macon, Georgia ; mechanization ; Mike Bowers ; Mike Egan ; national Republican Party ; north Georgia ; party switching ; Paul Coverdell ; polarization ; rural areas ; south Georgia ; state flag ; state senate ; statewide elections ; suburban voters ; swing state ; transportation ; urban voters ; Valdosta, Georgia 3156 Georgia state budget You asked about the problems of the state in the '90s, and we talked some about the politics in the '90s. Irvin and Barnes discuss the Georgia budgeting process and how it limits excessive spending by the state legislature. Both men laud the system particularly in the area of deficit spending and debt, claiming that such a balanced-budget requirement should be placed on Congress as well. " ; rainy day fund" ; ; 1975 budget cuts ; balanced budget amendment ; Bill Clinton ; Council of State Governments ; fiscal responsibility ; Harvard Business School ; limited legislative session ; Massachusetts legislature ; prosperity ; revenue estimates ; small government ; state debt ; taxation ; Tom Murphy ; Zell Miller 3777 Influence of rural Georgia / Effective governance You talked previously about south Georgia and depopulation of the rural areas. Irvin and Barnes predict that redistricting after the 2020 census will drastically weaken the influence of rural Georgia, lamenting particularly the longevity and experience that rural legislators often brought to the General Assembly. Barnes then recounts his efforts as governor to make governance of Georgia more efficient and effective, such as uniform bookkeeping procedures and auditing the state depository board. 1980 redistricting ; balanced budget ; expertise ; hospitals ; Jim Martin ; legislature turnover ; lieutenant governor ; Medicaid ; north Georgia ; Office of Planning and Budget ; Paul Coverdell ; policy priorities ; preclearance ; Renay Blumenthal ; rural healthcare ; Speaker of the House ; state treasury ; United States Department of Justice ; Voting Rights Act of 1965 4300 Bipartisanship in politics What are the things- we've talked a lot about how politics have become more contentious, more heated. Irvin states that one policy area where both parties should easily cooperate is the creation of economic prosperity for its citizens, with Barnes adding that for modern Georgia, this means improving the Technical College System of Georgia. Barnes and Irvin agree that the lack of bipartisan agreement in modern politics stems from the lack of civility and friendship toward political opponents. " ; Democrat In Name Only" ; ; " ; Republican In Name Only" ; ; adversarial system ; Chuck Schumer ; George L. Smith ; leadership ; Mitch McConnell ; pandering ; Paul Coverdell ; respect ; special interests ; Tom Murphy ; worker training 4860 Transportation in metro Atlanta Well, linking those issues of the last two: demonization of the other and economic development. Barnes lists the issues plaguing the transportation debate, such as suburban opposition to MARTA, and the solutions he proposed as governor that he still supports. Irvin and Barnes conclude that although Cobb County and Gwinnett County may have once wanted complete separation from Atlanta, changing public sentiment makes public transit inevitable for these areas. " ; Northern Arc" ; ; busways ; Cobb County Chamber of Commerce ; Emmett Burton ; Fulton County, Georgia ; Georgia Department of Transportation ; Georgia Regional Transportation Authority ; Hewlett-Packard ; highway construction ; Joe Mack Wilson ; light rail transit ; Marietta, Georgia ; Newnan, Georgia ; Outer Perimeter ; Smyrna, Georgia ; traffic ; trucking 5283 Growth of Atlanta / Incorporation of cities We've talked about suburban growth, exurban growth out in Cherokee and Forsyth and Jackson County, Barrow County any more. Irvin and Barnes discuss the benefits and causes of the city of Atlanta's reversal of a multi-year trend by recently gaining population instead of losing population. Irvin and Barnes then debate the merits of incorporation of cities such as Johns Creek and Eagle's Landing in well-developed counties like Fulton County and Henry County. Arthur Blank ; Atlanta Braves ; Buckhead, Georgia ; compromise ; county government ; cultural attractions ; Fulton County commission ; generational change ; Home Depot ; House Black Caucus ; incorporation of Sandy Springs ; local governance ; Marietta, Georgia ; McDonough, Georgia ; Midtown Atlanta ; municipal services ; neighborhood association ; partisan issues ; quality of life ; Roswell, Georgia ; Sandy Springs, Georgia ; Smyrna, Georgia ; sporting attractions ; Stockridge, Georgia ; taxation ; Tom Murphy ; Turner Field ; urban development ; zoning No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL425TPGA-042.xml RBRL425TPGA-042.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL425TPGA/findingaid
Location
The location of the interview
Marietta, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
103 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
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Interview with Roy Barnes and Bob Irvin, February 28, 2018
Identifier
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RBRL425TPGA-042
Creator
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Roy Barnes
Bob Irvin
Ashton Ellett
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video
oral histories
Coverage
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Georgia
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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State governments--Officials and employees
Race relations
United States--Appropriations and expenditures, State
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<span>Barnes and Irvin begin by talking about their early involvement in politics and why they chose to seek elected office. They then discuss their time in the legislature, the focus on national politics during that time, and the history of the Republican Party’s stance on racial issues. They then discuss governance in Georgia, including what makes a governor effective and the budgeting process. Irvin and Barnes comment on the diminishing power of rural Georgia in the state’s political process. They next talk about what issues may have bipartisan support in Georgia and how the parties may return to debating political issues civilly. They conclude the interview by discussing transportation issues in Georgia and their potential solutions.<br /><br />Bob Irvin grew up in rural North Fulton County in the 1960s and was elected as a Republican to the Georgia House of Representatives in 1972. He left the legislature to attend Harvard Business School. Irvin returned to Georgia politics and was reelected to the Georgia Assembly in 1994 where he served as House Minority Leader until 2002, when he left the House to run unsuccessfully for the United States Senate. <br /><br />Roy Barnes grew up in rural Cobb County, Georgia in the 1950s and 1960s. He graduated from the University of Georgia Law School in 1972, after which he moved back to Cobb County to work as an assistant district attorney. In 1974, Barnes was elected to the Georgia Senate. In 1990, Barnes ran an unsuccessful campaign for governor of Georgia. From 1992 to 1998, Barnes served in the Georgia House of Representatives, and then ran for governor again, this time successfully. He served one term as governor from 1999-2003, during which time, he oversaw the push for changing the Confederate symbolism on the Georgia state flag.<br /><br /></span>
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2018-02-28
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moving image
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
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Title
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Latinx Georgia Oral History
Creator
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Georgia Association of Latino Elected Officials (GALEO)
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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2020-ongoing
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL487LGOH
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Georgia
Subject
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Latinos
Georgia--Local, History
Georgia--Communities
Description
An account of the resource
The Latinx Georgia Oral History Project is part of a partnership with the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies and the Georgia Association of Latino Elected Officials (GALEO) to collect and preserve the modern history of Georgia Latinx communities through oral history interviews, organizational records and other collections. Oral histories will be a bilingual collection of first-person, Latinx personal narratives and experiences about life in Georgia.<br /><br /><span>The use of "Latinx" in this project aims to decenter the gender binary which is often implicit in the use of the male "Latino" and the female equivalent, "Latina." Latinx allows for a more complete representation of the varied voices that make up a community which include non-binary, transgender, and gender noncomforming individuals. Grounded in queer activist efforts and taken up by academia in spaces such as Critical Ethnic Studies, Latinx Studies, and Women, Gender and Sexuality Studies, the use of "Latinx" grounds this oral history project in important contemporary conversations about inclusivity and representation.</span>
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
DeKalb County, Georgia
Gilmer County, Georgia
Duration
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85 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL487LGOH-002-01/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL487LGOH-002/ohms
OHMS Object Text
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5.4
2020-11-24
Interview with Sam Zamarripa, November 24, 2020
RBRL487LGOH-002
85 minutes
RBRL487LGOH
Latinx Georgia Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Sam Zamarripa
Iliana Yamileth Rodriguez
0
Kaltura
audio
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0
Introduction
Today is November 24th, 2020.
Zamarripa is briefly introduced by Rodriguez, who gives an overview of Zamarripa’s influence in Georgia politics.
73
Family history
I'm from many places.
Zamarripa shares how his father lied about his age to join the U.S. Army and how he met his mother. He describes the various cities in which he grew up, but considers himself a “Southerner by habit.” His father was very proud of his heritage, raising his children to be proud of their Mexican ancestry.
Columbus, Ga.;Evelyn Walgood Zamarripa;Fort Benning, Ga.;Frankfurt, Germany;Hillsborough County, Fl.;Honolulu, Hi.;Laredo, Tx.;Martin Army Hospital;Plant City, Fl.;Rafael Zamarripa;Spanglish
438
Mexican inculturation
– and my father would take us to see my grandmother in Laredo.
Zamarripa recounts how spending time with his grandmother instilled Mexican culture in him. He talks about how close her house was to the border and how often they would cross it to go shopping. He discusses how prominent Mexican culture was in his life, even though his family may have been thousands of miles away from Mexico at times.
family relations
650
Developing a self-identity
– that was a period where I didn’t have an identity.
Zamarripa explains how he got his name, the lack of other Latino students in school, and feelings of isolation growing up. He describes how he was formed by his father’s heritage, but barely by his mother’s. He talks about the phenomenon of mixed identities and how it applies to him. He shares a story of an experience he had with one of his uncles and how it assisted him in discovering his identity.
<i> One Hundred Years of Solitude </i>;family relations;race;the Beatles
1242
Educational prospects
– let’s talk a little bit about your entry then to higher education.
Zamarripa discusses how he was not conditioned to take an academic route in life. After working with the Minnesota Teen Corps for three years, Zamarripa became influenced by the other teenagers in the organization and decided he would go to college. He talks about his family’s reaction to this choice.
Antioch University;Hampshire College;Minnesota State University, Mankato;Minnesota Teen Corps;Minnesota Youth Program;New College of Florida;Syracuse University
1786
Return to the South
– you went on to get a graduate degree at the Maxwell School of Citizenship and Public Affairs?
Zamarripa describes how he decided what he wanted to do, comparing it to the process of aging wine. He confesses that he didn’t plan on returning to the South, but he came back for the warm weather after being offered a job in the Governor's office in Georgia. He explains how he got this job and how he was given the assignment to close the asylums in the state of Georgia.
disabilities;New College of Florida;public policy;Syracuse University;Wolf Wolfensberger
2353
Working in the government
I arrived in Georgia in the Fall of 1979.
Zamarripa talks about working in human resources and being what he calls a historian of the “history of helping” for five years. He says that he was looking for work that was more direct.
bureaucracy;policy making
2516
The 80s
Well, this is my period in the wilderness.
Zamarripa says that the 80s for him were a building period. After he left the Governor’s office, he began doing any job that interested him. In 1982, he married his wife, who he describes as always having a constant job. In 1986, they had twin girls, and the pressure to support the family made Zamarripa return to conventional work. He returned to the political sphere in the late 1980s.
Andrew Young;DeKalb County, Ga.;fatherhood;Manuel Maloof;music;real estate;renovations;restauranteurs;songwriting
2792
Transition into politics
– when you met Andrew Young, this whole new chapter of your life opened up.
Zamarripa gives a summary of who Andrew Young is and his political influence, saying that Young was his most influential mentor in politics. Zamarripa says that he began to recognize the responsibility to represent the Mexican community because of his unique position. From working with Young, he became prepared to work in the political sphere.
Aflac Insurance;ambassadors;Atlanta;Carter administration;diplomacy;Martin Luther King, Jr.;mayors;United Nations;Zell Miller
3303
The role of poverty
My father took me to the Poor People’s campaign march in the early 70s.
Zamarripa shares an experience of meeting with civil rights activists by accident when he was a young boy and how he made the realization that the Mexican experience is not dissimilar to the African American experience. He talks about becoming aware of the roles of class, race, and society within politics.
class consciousness;Hosea Williams;Jesse Jackson;John Lewis;LGBTQIA+;race;race relations;racial identity;Ralph David Abernathy;Reies Tijerina;Resurrection City;Salvador Díaz-Versón;United Americas;Washington, D.C.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/remembering-poor-peoples-campaign-180968742/
Information on Resurrection City and the Poor People's Campaign
3835
Returning to policy / Republican shift in Georgia
What motivated you that first time?
Zamarripa describes how he became convinced to return to the political sphere in Atlanta and how he helped in the establishment of GRETA. He says that since he was friends with Governor Barnes, he decided to take his chances in running for office. Zamarripa says that night he was elected into the Georgia Senate, the state flipped to Republican leadership for the first time in decades. He recounts a white supremacist group filing for his and another Latíno official’s removal.
American Resistance;D.A. King;discrimination;Dustin Inman Society;Georgia Regional Transportation Authority (GRETA);public transportation;racism;Roy Barnes;Sam Williams;white supremacy;xenophobia
4446
Community influence
– I had already joined the Latin American Association Board.
Zamarripa shares that when he joined the Latin American Association, it was being organized in the basement of a K-Mart. He describes Latíno cultural projects that he assisted in creating, including art museums and award shows, and the influx of Latíno immigration into Georgia. Through increased visibility and effort, Zamarripa says that the Latin American Association now has a building on Buford Highway.
1996 Olympic Games;community organization;Compañeros Awards;Maritza Soto Keen
4878
Anti-immigrant sentiments
– what other, if any, challenges did you face being a Latíno legislator here in Georgia?
Zamarripa briefly describes the hopeless state of politics in Georgia during the early 2000s. He says that progressives were largely concerned with damage control and weren’t able to be as proactive as they wanted. He and Rodriguez agree to come back for another interview.
Chip Rogers;education;GALEO;racism;undocumented students;white supremacy
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Sam Zamarripa, November 24, 2020
Subject
The topic of the resource
Latino politicians
State governments--Officials and employees
Latinos
Georgia--Politics and government
Business and politics
Community activists
Discrimination
Politics and Public Policy
Public policy
Race relations
Description
An account of the resource
Sam Zamarripa was born in Fort Benning to a Mexican immigrant and an American national. As his father was in the military, Zamarripa’s family moved often, but he considers himself a Southerner. In this interview, Zamarripa discusses his responsibility to his community and how he became the first Latino in the Georgia state legislature, including the obstacles he overcame to do so. Zamarripa describes the influence that his father’s family had on his life, notably in the discovery of his identity, and how being a Latino in the South has affected his work. <br /><br />This interview was recorded remotely.
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Sam Zamarripa
Iliana Yamileth Rodriguez
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2020-11-24
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL487LGOH-002
OHMS