1
200
21
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
D. W. Brooks Oral History Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History
Agriculture and Industry
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
D. W. Brooks was a major figure in American agriculture. He was the founder and leader of Gold Kist, a farm cooperative, for almost fifty years and also served as an agricultural advisor to several U.S. Presidents. This collection consists primarily of oral history interviews with D.W. Brooks conducted by Brian S. Wills. D.W. Brooks discusses his family background, his childhood in Royston, Ga., his education, and his involvement with the Methodist church. He speaks extensively about topics related to farming and agriculture in Georgia, including the founding and development of Gold Kist, the poultry industry, fish and cattle production, cotton farming, and the federal government's involvement with farming co-ops. Brooks also discusses his contribution as an agricultural advisor to United States presidents and world leaders. Complimentary interviews in this collection with individuals such as former President Jimmy Carter and Secretary of State Dean Rusk provide additional perspectives on Brooks and his contributions.<br /><br />Biographical information:<br /><br /><span>David William Brooks (1901-1999) was a farmer and cooperative executive. Brooks entered the University of Georgia (UGA) in 1918 and earned Bachelor and Master of Science degrees in Agriculture. Concurrent to his Master's studies, Brooks taught agronomy at the university for four years and founded his first farm cooperative, the Georgia Cotton Growers Cooperative Association in Carrollton, in 1921, while he was teaching. In 1925, Brooks left UGA to devote all of his time to his cooperative. Due to a variety of factors, this cooperative failed. Upon the association's demise in 1933, Brooks immediately started another farm cooperative called the Georgia Cotton Producers Association. Renamed Cotton Producers Association (CPA) in 1934, and Gold Kist in 1974, this cooperative proved successful. By the late twentieth century, the company achieved Fortune 500 status and is currently a leading exporter of poultry in the world. Brooks started with CPA as the manager in 1933, and by his retirement at age 65, he was Chairman of the Board.<br /><br />In 1941, Brooks also founded the Cotton Farmers Mutual Insurance Association, a company that provided fire and windstorm insurance to farmers. In 1955, Brooks set up a life insurance company for farmers, Cotton States Life and Health. Both companies have achieved continued success since their respective inceptions.<br /><br /></span><span>Brooks' agribusiness acumen and experience privileged him to serve as a member of the Advisory Committee for Trade Negotiations under Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter. Brooks also served on the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agribusiness Industry Advisory Committee. In 1954 he was a delegate to the American Assembly, which proposed changes in the United Nations Charter. He served as director of the Foundation for American Agriculture; Agricultural Missions, Inc., New York; and the National Council of Farmer Cooperative; and Chairman of the Board of Farmers Chemical Association in Chattanooga, Tennessee. At 86 years old, Brooks returned to the University of Georgia as a visiting professor of Agricultural Economics.</span>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D. W. (David William) Brooks, 1901-1999
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-1988
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL013DWBOH
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Hyperlink
A link, or reference, to another resource on the Internet.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
60 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Atlanta, Georgia
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/Brooks_OH_01A/transcript" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Transcript of Interview </a></span></h3>
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL013DWBOH-01A
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with D.W. Brooks, Part 1, June 9, 1987
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D. W. Brooks
Brian S. Wills
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-06-09
Description
An account of the resource
Brian S. Wills interviews D.W. Brooks. Topics include Brooks’ childhood in Royston, Georgia, his father, his educational background, his views on education and teaching, his conversion to Methodism, the beginning of his co-ops with farmers, and the beginning of Gold Kist in 1933.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
D. W. Brooks Oral History Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History
Agriculture and Industry
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
D. W. Brooks was a major figure in American agriculture. He was the founder and leader of Gold Kist, a farm cooperative, for almost fifty years and also served as an agricultural advisor to several U.S. Presidents. This collection consists primarily of oral history interviews with D.W. Brooks conducted by Brian S. Wills. D.W. Brooks discusses his family background, his childhood in Royston, Ga., his education, and his involvement with the Methodist church. He speaks extensively about topics related to farming and agriculture in Georgia, including the founding and development of Gold Kist, the poultry industry, fish and cattle production, cotton farming, and the federal government's involvement with farming co-ops. Brooks also discusses his contribution as an agricultural advisor to United States presidents and world leaders. Complimentary interviews in this collection with individuals such as former President Jimmy Carter and Secretary of State Dean Rusk provide additional perspectives on Brooks and his contributions.<br /><br />Biographical information:<br /><br /><span>David William Brooks (1901-1999) was a farmer and cooperative executive. Brooks entered the University of Georgia (UGA) in 1918 and earned Bachelor and Master of Science degrees in Agriculture. Concurrent to his Master's studies, Brooks taught agronomy at the university for four years and founded his first farm cooperative, the Georgia Cotton Growers Cooperative Association in Carrollton, in 1921, while he was teaching. In 1925, Brooks left UGA to devote all of his time to his cooperative. Due to a variety of factors, this cooperative failed. Upon the association's demise in 1933, Brooks immediately started another farm cooperative called the Georgia Cotton Producers Association. Renamed Cotton Producers Association (CPA) in 1934, and Gold Kist in 1974, this cooperative proved successful. By the late twentieth century, the company achieved Fortune 500 status and is currently a leading exporter of poultry in the world. Brooks started with CPA as the manager in 1933, and by his retirement at age 65, he was Chairman of the Board.<br /><br />In 1941, Brooks also founded the Cotton Farmers Mutual Insurance Association, a company that provided fire and windstorm insurance to farmers. In 1955, Brooks set up a life insurance company for farmers, Cotton States Life and Health. Both companies have achieved continued success since their respective inceptions.<br /><br /></span><span>Brooks' agribusiness acumen and experience privileged him to serve as a member of the Advisory Committee for Trade Negotiations under Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter. Brooks also served on the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agribusiness Industry Advisory Committee. In 1954 he was a delegate to the American Assembly, which proposed changes in the United Nations Charter. He served as director of the Foundation for American Agriculture; Agricultural Missions, Inc., New York; and the National Council of Farmer Cooperative; and Chairman of the Board of Farmers Chemical Association in Chattanooga, Tennessee. At 86 years old, Brooks returned to the University of Georgia as a visiting professor of Agricultural Economics.</span>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D. W. (David William) Brooks, 1901-1999
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-1988
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL013DWBOH
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Hyperlink
A link, or reference, to another resource on the Internet.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
60 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Atlanta, Georgia
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/Brooks_OH_02B/transcript" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Transcript of Interview </a></span></h3>
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL013DWBOH-02B
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with D.W. Brooks, Part 2, June 22, 1986
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D. W. Brooks
Brian S. Wills
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-06-22
Description
An account of the resource
Brian S. Wills interviews D.W. Brooks. Topics include Brooks’ wife and children, the federal government’s involvement with co-ops, troubles encountered with traditional farming methods, methods of operation in growing cotton, and overseas expansion.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
D. W. Brooks Oral History Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History
Agriculture and Industry
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
D. W. Brooks was a major figure in American agriculture. He was the founder and leader of Gold Kist, a farm cooperative, for almost fifty years and also served as an agricultural advisor to several U.S. Presidents. This collection consists primarily of oral history interviews with D.W. Brooks conducted by Brian S. Wills. D.W. Brooks discusses his family background, his childhood in Royston, Ga., his education, and his involvement with the Methodist church. He speaks extensively about topics related to farming and agriculture in Georgia, including the founding and development of Gold Kist, the poultry industry, fish and cattle production, cotton farming, and the federal government's involvement with farming co-ops. Brooks also discusses his contribution as an agricultural advisor to United States presidents and world leaders. Complimentary interviews in this collection with individuals such as former President Jimmy Carter and Secretary of State Dean Rusk provide additional perspectives on Brooks and his contributions.<br /><br />Biographical information:<br /><br /><span>David William Brooks (1901-1999) was a farmer and cooperative executive. Brooks entered the University of Georgia (UGA) in 1918 and earned Bachelor and Master of Science degrees in Agriculture. Concurrent to his Master's studies, Brooks taught agronomy at the university for four years and founded his first farm cooperative, the Georgia Cotton Growers Cooperative Association in Carrollton, in 1921, while he was teaching. In 1925, Brooks left UGA to devote all of his time to his cooperative. Due to a variety of factors, this cooperative failed. Upon the association's demise in 1933, Brooks immediately started another farm cooperative called the Georgia Cotton Producers Association. Renamed Cotton Producers Association (CPA) in 1934, and Gold Kist in 1974, this cooperative proved successful. By the late twentieth century, the company achieved Fortune 500 status and is currently a leading exporter of poultry in the world. Brooks started with CPA as the manager in 1933, and by his retirement at age 65, he was Chairman of the Board.<br /><br />In 1941, Brooks also founded the Cotton Farmers Mutual Insurance Association, a company that provided fire and windstorm insurance to farmers. In 1955, Brooks set up a life insurance company for farmers, Cotton States Life and Health. Both companies have achieved continued success since their respective inceptions.<br /><br /></span><span>Brooks' agribusiness acumen and experience privileged him to serve as a member of the Advisory Committee for Trade Negotiations under Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter. Brooks also served on the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agribusiness Industry Advisory Committee. In 1954 he was a delegate to the American Assembly, which proposed changes in the United Nations Charter. He served as director of the Foundation for American Agriculture; Agricultural Missions, Inc., New York; and the National Council of Farmer Cooperative; and Chairman of the Board of Farmers Chemical Association in Chattanooga, Tennessee. At 86 years old, Brooks returned to the University of Georgia as a visiting professor of Agricultural Economics.</span>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D. W. (David William) Brooks, 1901-1999
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-1988
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL013DWBOH
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Hyperlink
A link, or reference, to another resource on the Internet.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
64 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Atlanta, Georgia
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/Brooks_OH_04A/transcript" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Transcript of Interview </a></span></h3>
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL013DWBOH-04A
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with D.W. Brooks, Part 1, July 15, 1987
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D. W. Brooks
Brian S. Wills
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-07-15
Description
An account of the resource
Brian S. Wills interviews D.W. Brooks. Topics include fishing in Alaska, Eskimos, research developments in hunger in Africa, economics and hunger, agriculture, politics and world hunger, America’s slipping economic position, past secretaries of agriculture, and Brooks' relationship with Japanese employees of Gold Kist.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
D. W. Brooks Oral History Collection
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History
Agriculture and Industry
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
D. W. Brooks was a major figure in American agriculture. He was the founder and leader of Gold Kist, a farm cooperative, for almost fifty years and also served as an agricultural advisor to several U.S. Presidents. This collection consists primarily of oral history interviews with D.W. Brooks conducted by Brian S. Wills. D.W. Brooks discusses his family background, his childhood in Royston, Ga., his education, and his involvement with the Methodist church. He speaks extensively about topics related to farming and agriculture in Georgia, including the founding and development of Gold Kist, the poultry industry, fish and cattle production, cotton farming, and the federal government's involvement with farming co-ops. Brooks also discusses his contribution as an agricultural advisor to United States presidents and world leaders. Complimentary interviews in this collection with individuals such as former President Jimmy Carter and Secretary of State Dean Rusk provide additional perspectives on Brooks and his contributions.<br /><br />Biographical information:<br /><br /><span>David William Brooks (1901-1999) was a farmer and cooperative executive. Brooks entered the University of Georgia (UGA) in 1918 and earned Bachelor and Master of Science degrees in Agriculture. Concurrent to his Master's studies, Brooks taught agronomy at the university for four years and founded his first farm cooperative, the Georgia Cotton Growers Cooperative Association in Carrollton, in 1921, while he was teaching. In 1925, Brooks left UGA to devote all of his time to his cooperative. Due to a variety of factors, this cooperative failed. Upon the association's demise in 1933, Brooks immediately started another farm cooperative called the Georgia Cotton Producers Association. Renamed Cotton Producers Association (CPA) in 1934, and Gold Kist in 1974, this cooperative proved successful. By the late twentieth century, the company achieved Fortune 500 status and is currently a leading exporter of poultry in the world. Brooks started with CPA as the manager in 1933, and by his retirement at age 65, he was Chairman of the Board.<br /><br />In 1941, Brooks also founded the Cotton Farmers Mutual Insurance Association, a company that provided fire and windstorm insurance to farmers. In 1955, Brooks set up a life insurance company for farmers, Cotton States Life and Health. Both companies have achieved continued success since their respective inceptions.<br /><br /></span><span>Brooks' agribusiness acumen and experience privileged him to serve as a member of the Advisory Committee for Trade Negotiations under Presidents Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, and Carter. Brooks also served on the U.S. Department of Agriculture's Agribusiness Industry Advisory Committee. In 1954 he was a delegate to the American Assembly, which proposed changes in the United Nations Charter. He served as director of the Foundation for American Agriculture; Agricultural Missions, Inc., New York; and the National Council of Farmer Cooperative; and Chairman of the Board of Farmers Chemical Association in Chattanooga, Tennessee. At 86 years old, Brooks returned to the University of Georgia as a visiting professor of Agricultural Economics.</span>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D. W. (David William) Brooks, 1901-1999
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-1988
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL013DWBOH
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Hyperlink
A link, or reference, to another resource on the Internet.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
61 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Atlanta, Georgia
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/Brooks_OH_06C/transcript" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Transcript of Interview </a></span></h3>
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL013DWBOH-06C
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with D.W. Brooks, Part 3, August 18, 1987
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
D. W. Brooks
Brian S. Wills
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1987-08-18
Description
An account of the resource
Brian S. Wills interviews D.W. Brooks. Topics include the National Council of Farmer Co-ops, Senator Richard B. Russell, and labor unions in the South.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
United States--Officials and employees
State governments--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
The Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project consists of 175 oral history interviews relating to the personal and political life of Richard B. Russell. Interviewees include members of the Russell family, his staff and interns, other senators and public figures, and friends. The primary interviewer was Hugh Cates, a public relations manager at Southern Bell and secretary of the Russell Foundation (1977-1981). Most of the interviews were recorded between 1971 and 1979, but the majority during 1971 after Senator Russell's death. Other interviewers include: William Stueck, Karen Kelly, Barboura Raesly, Robert G. Stephens, Jr., Dwight L. Freshley, Tom Jackson, Angus Hepburn, and Russell Library staff. Interviews provide insight into Senator Russell's political career as State Representative, Governor, and U.S. Senator, his views on various topics such as civil rights and Vietnam, and his personality and family life.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=23&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1971-2002
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL216RBROH
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Hyperlink
A link, or reference, to another resource on the Internet.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
Transcript, 6 pages
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL216RBROH-005
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Carl Thomas Curtis, April 21, 1971
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1971-04-21
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Carl Thomas Curtis
Description
An account of the resource
Interview with Carl Thomas Curtis, U.S. Senator (R-Nebraska). Topics include agriculture; Republican Party; Russell's influence on Senate; Russell's patriotism and character.
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Agriculture and Industry
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
United States
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
United States--Officials and employees
State governments--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
Description
An account of the resource
The Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project consists of 175 oral history interviews relating to the personal and political life of Richard B. Russell. Interviewees include members of the Russell family, his staff and interns, other senators and public figures, and friends. The primary interviewer was Hugh Cates, a public relations manager at Southern Bell and secretary of the Russell Foundation (1977-1981). Most of the interviews were recorded between 1971 and 1979, but the majority during 1971 after Senator Russell's death. Other interviewers include: William Stueck, Karen Kelly, Barboura Raesly, Robert G. Stephens, Jr., Dwight L. Freshley, Tom Jackson, Angus Hepburn, and Russell Library staff. Interviews provide insight into Senator Russell's political career as State Representative, Governor, and U.S. Senator, his views on various topics such as civil rights and Vietnam, and his personality and family life.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=23&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
1971-2002
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL216RBROH
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL216RBROH-125/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.3 Interview with W. Tap Bennet, Sr. and Jr., October 29, 1971 RBRL216RBROH-125 RBRL216RBROH Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia William Tapley Bennett, Jr. Robert Stephens oral history 1:|13(2)|56(10)|90(12)|115(6)|136(2)|148(1)|179(7)|198(15)|227(7)|256(9)|290(8)|305(9)|336(8)|356(6)|379(13)|388(2)|408(6)|433(6)|459(11)|483(9)|508(8)|535(8)|563(4)|586(9)|599(8)|608(6)|622(16)|652(14)|689(12)|704(1)|722(11)|738(8)|761(5)|776(6)|794(10)|814(11)|829(9)|849(4)|887(7)|909(6)|939(7)|960(1) 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_9ccqu16u& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_4oodlycs" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 0 Bennett Sr.'s first observations of the political realm We'll begin our oral history tape here about recollections of our friend here, Mr. Tap Bennett Sr., and on the basis of his long-time friendship with Senator Russell and his family. George Bennett ; Judge Russell ; legislature ; page ; populism ; Richard Russell, Sr. 17 493 Senator Russell's interest in agriculture / Anecdote about entertaining Russell After working several years that way with the agricultural department, you went as the agriculture agent for the Southern Railroad? Board of Regents ; man of the year ; Progressive Farmer ; UGA ; University of Georgia ; University System 17 993 Ambassador William Tapley Bennett, Jr. refuses Senator's Russell's political help Let me get back here now just a second to Ambassador William Tapley Bennett, Jr., who, whom we have known... diplomacy ; foreign relations ; Foreign Service ; NATO ; Rockefeller Foundation ; State Department 17 1366 Ambassador Bennett's experience of the Dominican Crisis / Senator Russell defends Ambassador Bennett against Senator Fulbright When you were the ambassador for the United States down in the Dominican Republic, they had an uprising of some sort there. Caribbean ; Castro ; Communism ; Cuba ; Dominican Republic ; economic crisis ; embassy ; evacuation ; Foreign Relations Committee ; Lyndon Johnson ; Marines ; revolution ; sugar ; William Fulbright 17 2012 Recalling Senator Russell's professional and personal support of friends / Discussing the 1952 Democratic ticket ...You went to Portugal after you left the Dominican Republic. Adlai Stevenson ; character ; Foreign Service ; Fort Gordon ; Kefauver ; military ; Portugal ; reassignment ; Senate Armed Services Committee ; Southern states ; Ted Kennedy 17 STEPHENS: We' ; ll begin our oral history tape here about recollections of our friend here, Mr. Tap Bennett Sr., and on the basis of his long-time friendship with Senator Russell and his family. As I know you all believe, Senator Russell was a great Georgian and he is honored by having the Russell Library set aside in his memory with all of the things that he had. I don' ; t know whether you' ; ve seen his office over there ; it' ; s been reproduced in the Library. BENNETT JR: Oh, has it? No, I haven' ; t been over there. STEPHENS: And it' ; s been a very nice thing. It' ; s got all of his Congressional furnishings and his, it' ; s just exactly like his office was and it' ; s very interesting to go there. Mr. Bennett, when do you, did you recall first meeting Senator Russell? Before he was Governor I' ; m sure, when-- BENNETT SR: Oh yes. STEPHENS: He was a young man. BENNETT SR: About the time he comes through the university. STEPHENS: I see. Well-- BENNETT SR: He was an outstanding citizen, due to his father, Judge [Richard Brevard Sr.] Russell. STEPHENS: Yes, and were you living here at the time that the Russell' ; s lived in Athens, or were they already over in Barrow County? BENNETT SR: They were living in Barrow County and we lived in Apple Valley. STEPHENS: In Apple Valley, now that' ; s-- BENNETT SR: Jackson. STEPHENS: In Jackson County, isn' ; t it? BENNETT SR: Yeah. STEPHENS: Yes, and how did you become, excuse me, did you-- BENNETT JR: I was just going to say next door, the two counties join. STEPHENS: Yes. BENNETT SR: See my father was a dear friend of Judge Russell and I, he had talked to me so much about him. STEPHENS: Yes. BENNETT SR: And then-- STEPHENS: Well, your father was Mr. George-- BENNETT SR: George-- STEPHENS: George Bennett, and he, my recollection represented Clarke County or at one time in the Georgia legislature, was he in the state senate, wasn' ; t he in the-- BENNETT SR: No, he-- STEPHENS: State Senate at one time-- BENNETT SR: Was a representative at home in Jackson County and then Oglethorpe County. STEPHENS: Did he-- BENNETT SR: He come to Athens County, uh Clarke County, and he run and was elected from Clarke County against Judge [Andrew C.] Erwin and he wasn' ; t, hadn' ; t been in Clarke County long enough to vote for himself. STEPHENS: Well, I' ; ll declare. BENNETT JR: I think he' ; s the only man that' ; s ever represented three separate counties-- STEPHENS: Three separate counties, uh huh. BENNETT JR: In the legislature. STEPHENS: Now, was he in the legislature when Senator Russell was the senate or was this before Senator Russell-- BENNETT SR: That was before. STEPHENS: Before he was the governor. BENNETT SR: Father represented Jackson County as a Populist. STEPHENS: I see. He and Tom Watson were friends, I' ; m sure. BENNETT SR: Tom Watson and Mr. Johnson and the E. S. Sell, who else, and the Braseltons were all Populists. STEPHENS: Well, they have claimed that we' ; ve got some Populists now, like oh, had, like Representative Wright Patman in the House of Representatives in Washington was considered a Populist in his philosophy. Well, now-- BENNETT JR: Some people even talk of Jimmy Carter as having Populist tendencies. STEPHENS: Yes, and uh-- BENNETT JR: I said all of us Southerners are part Populist. STEPHENS: Well, that' ; s correct because we had such a terrific time overcoming many of the economic difficulties after the War Between the States. When did you first remember meeting Senator Russell? BENNETT SR: I don' ; t remember specifically when I met him, but I remember his father. STEPHENS: Can you tell me--? BENNETT SR: That was before his day. STEPHENS: A little bit about his father? BENNETT SR: His father, my father brought me to Athens to hear Judge Russell talk, make a speech in front of the Athens High, over here on Prince Avenue. STEPHENS: Yes, the old Athens High School. BENNETT SR: And when we got there, there was a big crowd. So' ; s father said you come down, bringing you down here to learn something, so you go up yonder and sit down on the side of the steps to where you can hear and learn something. And that' ; s when I got sprayed, by him chewing his tobacco. STEPHENS: Judge Russell was chewing tobacco in his speech and you were too near to-- BENNETT JR: But you didn' ; t move. BENNETT SR: I didn' ; t move. STEPHENS: You were so fascinated with him you sat there and. BENNETT SR: Oh yeah, I was fascinated from my father' ; s instructions. STEPHENS: Well I, I' ; m glad to hear that. Sometimes it' ; s difficult for people to understand parental instructions nowadays. You say that you lived in Apple Valley and you had a bicycle? BENNETT SR: Uh hum. STEPHENS: And what was the distance you traveled in your bicycle, on your bicycle? BENNETT SR: I, that was about the time that Dick was running to be Governor and I just wanted to know where he lived. So and having that previous experience with his father making the speech in Athens, I got on my bicycle and rode it to Jefferson, four miles to Winder and then down two miles to Russell Station and stopped and looked up the alley of the trees into the front door. I' ; d seen Dick Russell' ; s house and turned around, wasn' ; t any pavement then, and I turned around and went back to Winder and back to home. STEPHENS: That must have been about a fifty-mile trip on the bicycle, almost. BENNETT SR: Well, it was four and thirteen and two. BENNETT JR: I think that would have been well before he was governor, because after all, you were older than he, and so that must have been to go see his father' ; s house. STEPHENS: Well I think he said, you said that was about the time Dick was running for governor, which would have been about 1928, 20-- BENNETT SR: Let' ; s see, I was-- BENNETT JR: You were already married then. BENNETT SR: Yeah. BENNETT JR: I think you must have been going to see his father' ; s house' ; cause of what your father had said about him. STEPHENS: You-- BENNETT SR: I guess that' ; s right. BENNETT JR: Uh huh. STEPHENS: You went to see the house where the Russell' ; s--I had that same experience one time. My father brought me and my sister and my uncle over here to Athens from Atlanta to an alumni meeting and on the way back, my uncle, who was Judge [Alexander William] Alec Stephens on the court of appeals, and Judge Russell were great friends, and he wanted to stop and see Judge Russell' ; s home. So we had the same experience that you did. When you started out, you, in the field of agriculture, you were with the Agricultural Extension Service, or were that before they had formulated exactly the-- BENNETT SR: No. And J. Phil [Campbell] was director of the extension then-- BENNETT JR: Campbell. STEPHENS: The father, the father of the, our former commissioner-- BENNETT SR: Yes. Yeah. STEPHENS: of agriculture. Now then-- BENNETT SR: Now and when I graduated from college, Dr. [Lamartine Griffin] Lam Hardman, who was a great friend of our father, of my father' ; s, and he carried me to the senate with him as president of the senate before he run for governor. STEPHENS: I see. BENNETT JR: You served as a page. BENNETT SR: Yeah. STEPHENS: You served over there in the legislature. A lot of people have done that and found it, as young people, and found it very interesting. The, then after working several years that way with the agricultural department, you went as the agriculture agent for the Southern Railroad? BENNETT SR: No, I started out at the request of Dr. Lam. [He] wanted me to come be our first county agent in Jackson County and Dr. [Andrew] Soule had previous orders not to--that no boy could go back home. BENNETT JR: To his own county-- BENNETT SR: To his own county-- STEPHENS: As the county agent. BENNETT SR: As the county agent. STEPHENS: I see. BENNETT SR: So Dr. Lam when he asked me, said, " ; I want you to go back to Jackson County as our first county agent." ; And I told him, " ; Sorry, Dr. Lam, but I can' ; t go for the simple reason Dr. Soule said that we can' ; t go back home" ; And he asked me, says, " ; Don' ; t you know who I am?" ; And I said, " ; Yeah, Dr. Lam Hardman." ; He says, " ; Well, I' ; m King Andy' ; s boy, boss." ; And he was chairman of the board of trustees. STEPHENS: On the board of trustees of the university then before they had the university system. BENNETT SR: That' ; s right. STEPHENS: That was before--Senator Russell-- BENNETT SR: He said, " ; If I want you to go to Jackson County, you' ; ll go." ; And I did! BENNETT JR.: That was about 1914, wasn' ; t it? BENNETT SR: 1913. BENNETT JR: --13. STEPHENS: Well now, that was about 15 years before they created university system when Senator Russell was the governor. BENNETT SR: See, Senator Russell was governor when they made the Board of Regents in the--sent in the System. STEPHENS: That was about 1933 ; it was in-- BENNETT SR: 1933 I think is correct-- STEPHENS: I was in the middle of the university at that time when they made the change and brought the Agriculture College together with the Franklin College. BENNETT JR: I was a freshman. STEPHENS: That was your first year, Tap. Well now you had very close connections over the years with Senator Russell' ; s family. BENNETT SR: Oh yes. STEPHENS: And with Senator Russell. Now when you were with the Southern Railroad you were frequently-- BENNETT SR: It' ; s uh, Central of Georgia. STEPHENS: Oh, it' ; s the Central of Georgia, that' ; s right and I guess it eventually joined with the Southern Railroad, the Central-- BENNETT SR: The Southern finally purchased the Central of Georgia. STEPHENS: Yeah. BENNETT SR: And is its owner now. BENNETT JR: That was really after you left. STEPHENS: That was after you had left the connection. But you saw Senator Russell then in Washington very frequently. BENNETT SR: Oh yeah. STEPHENS: And at various things when he was at home. My recollection from everything I have always known, he was a great friend to agriculture. BENNETT SR: He was. See as a member of the representative by--the boss always would send me to go to Washington and see Senator Russell, because he felt like our own friends as a family, was more important than just somebody going up there to talk about something. STEPHENS: Well, they advised you correctly or you advised them correctly. Could you tell me or recall any particular times that you talked to Senator Russell on some problems that were facing our agricultural community in Georgia and in the South? BENNETT SR: Yeah. We talked just about ever time I went up there, he wanted to know what the status is of the agriculture and it was especially important when he was re-establishing the university-- STEPHENS: Yes sir. BENNETT SR: And that was to be an important part. STEPHENS: The University Agricultural College after it was consolidated had, has profited greatly over the years because of Senator Russell' ; s interest. BENNETT SR: That' ; s correct. STEPHENS: The Center over there that is now probably equal to any agricultural development in the Southeast at least and maybe in the United States. BENNETT SR: Well, it' ; s comparable to the best ones. STEPHENS: Yes. Let me ask your son, Ambassador Tap Bennett about his appointment originally as ambassador. Tap, you remember, in may--yes, BENNETT JR: You can get into that, in awhile, but I think you ought to tell about the time he came over the Longview to dinner, when you had your meeting with Senator Russell. STEPHENS: Oh yes, I' ; d like to hear about that, thank you. BENNETT SR: Wel1-- STEPHENS: Now, where is Longview? BENNETT SR: Well, Longview is our-- BENNETT JR: It' ; s our family place. STEPHENS: Oh, the name of your family place. BENNETT JR: It' ; s in Franklin County, between Carnesville and Commerce. STEPHENS: Yeah. Yeah, I would like to hear about that, Mr. Bennett. BENNETT SR: Well, in 1953, I was chosen as the Man of the Year by the Progressive Farmer and then in, I' ; ve forgotten the year now, but anyway, the year before, wasn' ; t it in 1963-- STEPHENS: 1963, yeah that' ; s right. BENNETT SR: When I was talking with Byron Troutwell down in Tifton and he said, " ; Tap, why don' ; t you all, you and Annie Mem [Little Bennett], entertain the Men of the Year on the farm." ; I said, that' ; s a good suggestion and we did and that year happened to be the year that the Progressive Farmer selected Dick to be the Man of the Year. STEPHENS: Oh, the Man of the Year in agriculture? BENNETT SR: Yeah. STEPHENS: Well that' ; s great. I' ; d forgotten that. BENNETT SR: So we had him and one of the most interesting things happened to us at the table. We, William had asked me to get him-- STEPHENS: Now, William is Tap Bennett, Jr.? Ambassador? BENNETT JR: William at home, yes. BENNETT SR: To get him a bunch of pla--a dozen plates of the pink, or the you do call it-- BENNETT JR: Yeah, those commemorative plates of the University. STEPHENS: Yes, oh yes. BENNETT JR: Wedgewood. STEPHENS: Yes, the Wedgewood. BENNETT SR: His mother and I had traveled and asked many times, but we couldn' ; t ever find, until we finally found a bunch of them in Sandersville, Georgia, but they were blue instead of pink, but we bought' ; em since it looked like the last thing we had. And then when he come home, why he says, " ; Mother, I wanted pink ; I didn' ; t want these." ; And he didn' ; t say much to our faces about it. Anyway, we said, " ; Well that' ; s all right, we can use' ; em." ; So, then when Dick Russell comes to have dinner that day, he was impressed with them. So he said, " ; Annie Mem, would you object to me turning this plate over and seeing what' ; s on the back?" ; She said, " ; Anything you want Dick, it' ; s your privilege." ; So he read the thing on the back without conversation and then the next thing I knew was I found Margaret (White Bennett) had stuck a little thing in the plate " ; property of Tap, Jr." ; STEPHENS: (Laughter, and both Stephens and Mr. Bennett, Sr., talking here.) Well Senator Russell, I' ; m sure, got a little bit of a laugh out of that. He had a good sense of humor. BENNETT SR: Oh yeah. See, we had 22 men there at that time and it was quite a day for us. STEPHENS: Yes, well I can imagine that it was and it' ; s the kind of thing I believe that he enjoyed more than a big gathering where he was called upon to make a speech. BENNETT SR: Well, it uh-- BENNETT JR: He referred to it later in a speech on the floor of the Senate, but that sort of gets into my side of the story. STEPHENS: He did? Yes. Well, let me get back here now just a second to Ambassador William Tapley Bennett, Jr., who, whom we have known, I' ; ve known him for many years. We were in college together, and I had the privilege of being at the, his swearing in as an Ambassador when Dean Rusk was Secretary of State and he and another of our classmates (Benson Ellison) Lane Timmons (III) were in foreign service, career men, and were sworn in at the same time, and then they both went down to the same place almost, the Dominican Republic where Ambassador Bennett went and the Haitian-- BENNETT JR: Haiti. STEPHENS: Haiti, where the other end of the same islands where Lane Timmons went and that was during the Kennedy first years. What year were you sworn in as an ambassador for the first time? BENNETT JR: That was March, 1964. STEPHENS: Was that, it was 1964? BENNETT JR: 1964, yes. STEPHENS: All right now. Before you were sworn in, I remember that ambassadorial appointments have to have the approval of the Senate. BENNETT JR: Oh yes, that' ; s provided in the Constitution of the United States. STEPHENS: As a two-thirds vote? BENNETT JR: The president appoints and then you have a hearing before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and the committee approves or disapproves, but if they approve, it goes before the full Senate. STEPHENS: Yes. You, of course, had contact with our senators at that time, Senator (Herman E.) Talmadge and Senator Russell. BENNETT JR.: Yes, and before Senator Talmadge, Senator (Walter F.) George, who of course was chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee for a good many years. STEPHENS: That' ; s right. During the earlier period of your career as, in the Foreign Service, I believe you told me you started in the Foreign Service about 1940? BENNETT JR: 1941, yes. STEPHENS: 1941, at the--being at the University and then being as an exchange student to Germany. BENNETT JR: Yeah, I followed you to Germany, you remember. STEPHENS: Yeah, that' ; s right. BENNETT JR: And then came back and I was in Washington as an intern, sort of an apprentice, a special program of the Rockefeller Foundation, from 1939 through 1940. STEPHENS: Did you talk with Senator Russell about the appointment after the nomination? BENNETT JR: Well, I always made it my practice--now the foreign service, you know, is a career service and it' ; s always been rather rigorously independent, that' ; s how--it' ; s not always understood on Capitol Hill, but in the foreign service, we feel that we serve the government and serve the country, and for instance, my original service began with President Franklin Roosevelt, and so I have now served eight presidents and I have autographed pictures of all eight on my piano in Brussels today. STEPHENS: Well, that' ; s great. BENNETT JR: But I always, since I was a Georgian man, I made it my business to know our people and you know, this was the kind of state where you knew your congressmen and your senators and so I usually would go up when I was at home and pay calls on all our representatives-- STEPHENS: Of course, you had a family background connection with Senator Russell that made it-- BENNETT JR: Particularly close with Senator Russell-- STEPHENS: Just as a family friendship among the other responsibilities you felt to your senators. BENNETT JR: I always went by to see him and it was more family talk than anything else, but I remember his telling me, this was at the beginning of the Nixon administration when he was then the, you know, the ranking U.S senator and number one in the Senate and-- STEPHENS: Yes. BENNETT JR: President pro tem, I guess it' ; s called, isn' ; t it? STEPHENS: Yes. BENNETT JR: And he said--I came home that January, I was there, I think I was the last ambassador to see Lyndon Johnson before he left office, because it was on the 19th of January, I happened to be at home and I was at Mr. Rusk' ; s farewell ceremony. STEPHENS: What year was this now? BENNETT JR: I was then, this was 1969, January of 1969, and I was ambassador to Portugal at the time, but I happened to be at home and so I stayed over so' ; s to go to Mr. Rusk' ; s farewell. And I went up to see Senator Russell and he said, " ; Now we got a change of administration, Tap, is there anything I can do for you? Can I be helpful to you?" ; And I said, " ; Senator, I appreciate your support, but I' ; m not asking for your help." ; Well, I thought that was independent foreign service ; I later came to conclude that it was a very impertinent remark to make--for being an obscure foreign service officer, ambassador, to make to the ranking member of the United States Senate, but he took it in good stride, and he said, " ; Because the new secretary of state said he' ; ll need my help on things and so I' ; d like to know." ; Well, I didn' ; t ask for anything and it all turned out all right, but he was always very understanding and I remember his saying that day, he said, " ; You know, I don' ; t know too much about the state department, said, " ; I' ; ve specialized on defense matters." ; He was then chairman of the Armed Services Committee-- STEPHENS: Yes. BENNETT JR: Or had given it up to be chairman of Appropriations. I, you know, he was so prominent he was in all of the major committees. But he said, " ; I' ; ve put my career and my interests in the defense department, rather than in the State." ; So I suspect he' ; d be interested to know today that now I' ; m serving as ambassador to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. STEPHENS: Yeah, which is-- BENNETT JR: Which has a lot to do with the military side of the government. STEPHENS: Well, I' ; m sure that Senator Russell must have had a great deal to do with the creation of NATO-- BENNETT JR: Oh, indeed, and he was-- STEPHENS: Because of his position as the head of Armed Services. BENNETT JR: And gave it very strong support always, of course. STEPHENS: Yes. I remember he always visited when the recess period came, he went to Spain to visit there, to see our bases there and other places. BENNETT JR: See I flew with him once when he was in the Caribbean and he stopped that time in the Bahamas to see some of our navy' ; s underwater work there-- STEPHENS: Yes. BENNETT JR: There was a special station down there. No, as you say, he was an indefatigable man to look after the interest of the armed services and to make sure they were doing their job right. STEPHENS: And he made personal inspections, rather than sending somebody else, BENNETT JR: You' ; re right! STEPHENS: which I always have thought was what a Senate, a chairman of a committee should do. BENNETT JR: Yes. STEPHENS: Now let me ask you one question. You and I were talking about it the other day. When you were the ambassador for the United States down in the Dominican Republic, they had an uprising of some sort there. Tell me about that and your consequential discussion with Senator Russell. BENNETT JR: Yes. Well, we had a lot of shooting there, as you know, there was -- STEPHENS: Well, I always heard that you had a communication with the, with President Johnson and it makes a good story and I, about the fact that he wanted to know if it was any emergency. You said, " ; Yes, I' ; m in the embassy now and under the desk-- BENNETT JR: " ; I' ; m talking to you from under my desk." ; STEPHENS: From under my desk, they' ; re shooting through the embassy." ; I like that uh, because it really proves it was an emergency. BENNETT JR: Well, it was just about that time I was on the phone and a plane suddenly dived on the embassy so I took cover as the marines taught me to do. STEPHENS: Well, tell me about the, after you had-- BENNETT JR: Wells that-- BENNETT SR: Well now let me say one word that you said when President Johnson asked you about an emergency. You said, " ; If you don' ; t believe it' ; s an emergency, listen to that glass fall." ; BENNETT JR: Well, that' ; s true, but as I said, you could hear the bullets ; you could hear the shooting over the telephone which was true. Well, I had been there about a year and it was a country which was in serious difficulties. They' ; d had a 31-year dictatorship, you know, which had ended with assassination and sugar prices had dropped to practically nothing. You can' ; t believe it today, but in the winter of 1964-1965 between Christmas and New Year' ; s, sugar dropped below three cents a pound. We knew, since their means of income was so circumscribed, that we' ; d have real trouble in the near future and within three months we did have this really very violent revolution and shooting in the streets. Well, it was an enormous loss of life for such a small country. STEPHENS: Was that when you recommended that we, they have Marines come there? BENNETT JR: Yes, that was April the 28th of, I believe, 1965. And we brought the Marines in to save American and Allied lives because the evacuation program, which was enormous for that size country, carried out 4600 people. No, I' ; m sorry, there were 46 countries involved and there were about 5000 people taken out, less than half of whom were Americans, without a single, without the loss of a single life. Well, the action became controversial, of course, and we had a lot of criticism from some of the Eastern press. I' ; m glad to say the Georgia papers always understood what the issues were and it was a very determined effort by a left-wing social visionary to take over the government but behind him were very disciplined Communist cadres of people who knew what they were after. STEPHENS: And this was after the taking over of Cuba by the Communists and they were anxious to take over all the Caribbean and Latin American-- BENNETT JR: Yes, you remember, Castro took over as a social reformer and then less than a year later revealed himself as a card-carrying Communist and this was what was about to be happening in the Dominican Republic. Well, President Johnson, and in this he had the full support of Senator Russell, was determined that we were not going to have another Cuba in the Caribbean and that had been President Kennedy' ; s policy before Johnson. And so when the shooting started, we recognized what the issues were, and of course, it was unfortunate that some of the liberal elements in this country and, particularly in academic and press fraternities, couldn' ; t see that and thought we were moving against a social reform, which was not the case at all. In fact, as a result of the action and the fact that we helped a country back on the road to civilian and constitutional government, they' ; ve had a longer period of it than that country' ; s ever had. It was the country, you remember, where Columbus first landed, so it has the longest history in this hemisphere, but they' ; ve never had more than five years of constitutional government in all those more than, more than four hundred years. STEPHENS: Was it at San Domingo-- BENNETT JR: Santa Domingo. STEPHENS: That Columbus landed. BENNETT JR: He landed actually on the north coast-- STEPHENS: On the north coast BENNETT JR: on his first voyage and there' ; s a marker up there and that was the original colony that was founded. His brother was governor there and. STEPHENS: And he was supposed to have been buried there-- BENNETT JR: --his remains are in the cathedral there. STEPHENS: There. BENNETT JR: Seville and Havana dispute that. They claim they have his bones, but I' ; m convinced that they' ; re in Santa Domingo. Well, what I wanted to say about Senator Russell was he took a very active interest in this situation. You remember, he had been very critical of our failure to follow through in Cuba and rid ourselves of-- STEPHENS: After the Bay of Pigs. BENNETT JR: Yes, he said we should have put more force if we were going to do it at all and remove that, remove that cancer from the hemisphere. I think he was right myself. Well-- STEPHENS: Well, I agree with you and I had an opportunity about that time to talk with General Lemnitzer, General [Lyman L.] Lemnitzer, who was the head of the Chiefs of Staff. BENNETT JR: Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff-- STEPITENS: That' ; s right and he told me and my friend John Bell from Augusta who' ; d served with me-- BENNETT JR: Oh yes. STEPHENS: He said that Cuba is not a military problem, said it' ; s a political problem. BENNETT JR: Right. STEPHENS: And I' ; m sure that that' ; s the way you felt. BENNETT JR: And it remains one today. STEPHENS: You felt that was true in the Dominican Republic-- BENNETT JR: Yes. STEPHENS: --as far as the situation was concerned. BENNETT JR: Well, you see the chain of islands there. There' ; s Cuba, which is only ninety miles from Key West, the largest. Then the next in size is Hispaniola, with the Dominican Republic being two-thirds of that island, and then there' ; s Puerto Rico, where, of course, we have very great interests. And so to let the second one go to the Communist sphere would have put Puerto Rico in grave danger. At any rate, we took the action. It was successful and after most tortuous and complicated negotiations, the thing was composed--, a provisional government was put in office, and then they had a free election a few months later and they' ; ve been going along very well ever since. And the little man, which all this is supposed to be about, has had a better shake and a better prospect for his own future than at any time in Dominican history. But, none of this pleased Senator Fulbright, who at that time was the chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, and this is the story with Senator Russell. Because this happened-- STEPHENS: Senator Fulbright, and some of people like him, made a criticism of what had happened down there and sort of blamed you for some-- BENNETT JR: Very strong criticism and, but this is what happened. Senator Fulbright took the floor of the Senate, I believe it was in early September, and had a very strong speech condemning everything that had happened ; condemning Johnson for sending Marines and then condemning me for having recommended it ; that I didn' ; t know the job and was, you know, just not doing what I should have been doing. STEPHENS: And this was, as we would say again, your first assignment as an ambassador and it was important-- BENNETT JR: As an ambassador, yes I was minister in Greece and I served in-- STEPHENS: Yeah, I remember. BENNETT JR: --other European Latin Countries. Well, I remember Senator Russell saying to me that, he said, " ; I am furious at Bill Fulbright." ; Said, " ; he saw me a few days ago and he said, I am going to get upon the Floor and attack the Dominican case and the handling of it by the Johnson administration," ; but said, " ; You needn' ; t worry, I' ; m not going to jump on your man Bennett." ; Because Senator Russell apparently had already made clear his support of my action. " ; Well," ; he said, " ; I was not even on the Floor when Fulbright spoke." ; Said, " ; When the word was brought to me in my office that he had attacked you as the ambassador," ; said, " ; It made me furious in view of what he said to me a few days before and I immediately determined that I was going to answer it." ; And about three days later, Senator Russell did get up and make a very powerful speech endorsing what we' ; d done and then, to my eternal appreciation of him, he gave a very strong endorsement of me personally and that' ; s the time-- [BEGIN SIDE 2, CASSETTE # 125] In this speech, he referred to the fact that the Russell' ; s and the Bennett' ; s had been friends for several generations and he said, " ; Why just recently I was over at the ambassador' ; s father' ; s house to dinner with friends," ; and said, " ; I want to tell the Senate of the United States that these are people who are grounded in firm principles and they' ; re not people who panic," ; and that the ambassador is not, was not just acting out of impulse, that he knew what he was doing. And I always was very grateful to him for that support. BENNETT SR: Me, too. STEPHENS: Well I' ; m sure that you are reflecting what so many people found out and so many people appreciated and that is if you were right, Senator Russell was going to back you up and back you up effectively. And he knew what you had done was correct and it was one of his characteristics. I found that out very much myself as being on the House side when he was in the Senate, and I' ; m sure that reflects that one great characteristic that we all appreciated. He didn' ; t run and abandon his friends when they seemed to be in difficulty. He was one of those who would come in and help fight for you. BENNETT JR: He was extremely loyal and in fact he even made a trip that fall down to the Dominican Republic just to-- STEPHENS: Tell me about that. BENNETT JR: Yes, he came down. STEPHENS: He came down specifically to see you. BENNETT JR: He came down and stayed at my house, but he came to look into the situation. He visited the troops and I remember we had the, this was in November and we had the Armistice Day ceremony on the steps of the embassy and he spoke at that little occasion which was out under the tropic sun, you know, and it was a very nice ceremony and he gave it great dignity with his contribution to it. But at the time, I already knew that I was slated to move on to another post and I did go in a few months-- STEPHENS: You went to Portugal after you left the Dominican Republic. BENNETT JR: And the White House had already been in touch with me as to whether I was to go to Sweden or to Portugal. Either one was a promotion, as far as I was concerned and then it was decided that it would be Portugal and that was a great satisfaction to my wife, who didn' ; t want to have a cold climate. So, Portugal' ; s not as cold as Sweden. So anyway, the Senator came down and I remember he was sitting on my back terrace one morning there and he was in the rocking chair. We had old-fashioned rocking chairs as you do in the tropics, and as you know we used to have on porches here more than we do now. STEPHENS: Yeah. BENNETT JR: And he said, said, " ; Tap, they tell me that, Lyndon Johnson tells me that he' ; s gonna send you as ambassador over to Europe." ; And I said, " ; That' ; s what I understand, Senator, and it' ; ll be fine with me." ; He said, " ; Well, I just want to know, do you want to go? If you don' ; t want to go, you don' ; t have to go." ; Well, at that time, I was looking forward to getting out of this tropical hell-hole-- STEPHENS: Yeah. BENNETT JR: --to use the word mildly, and so I said, " ; No, I think the time has come for me to leave here because I' ; ve done my part of the job and we need to have an election here in a few months." ; I stayed until the eve of the election and then it' ; s time for me to move on and I' ; m looking forward to another assignment. But I again always appreciated that because he was already determined that, if necessary, he would intervene to see that I was done no injustice. And since, now papers like the Washington Post and the New York Times, which so attacked the operation--later on the Washington Post at least had the gumption to turn around and say we now recognize what was done was correct. I don' ; t think the New York Times ever changed. STEPHENS: Well, the thing about the Washington Post and the New York Times that a lot of people don' ; t realize, people don' ; t read them much in Georgia. BENNETT JR: Nor in the Congress either. STEPHENS: And in the Congress either, except those who are very close by and whose Congressional districts are affected by the publicity. But I appreciate your-- BENNETT JR: Both the Washington Post and the New York Times fired the two reporters who' ; d been their reporting people-- STEPHENS: Because they had not done their job right. BENNETT JR: They had just done a very thoroughly unobjective job of work. STEPHENS: Well, that' ; s very interesting, but I-- BENNETT JR: And then that was the time that I flew up with Senator Russell when we stopped in the Bahamas and he visited the navy installation there. STEPHENS: Yes. Well I had an experience with Senator Russell that is analogous to show you the same kind of support that he would give you. That, he was in a position to work well with the development of Fort Gordon as the chairman of the Armed Services Committee in the Senate. And a big project was pending but nobody knew whether it would be financed and approved and Senator Russell, as the ranking member of the Appropriations Committee and also the chairman of the Armed Forces Committee, knew when the matters were going to be done before anybody else, because he would make these plans. And he called me up on the telephone and he, knowing that it was, that Augusta and Fort Gordon were in my congressional district. And he said, we are going to approve a big project at Fort Gordon on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and said, " ; I' ; m going to send out a news release," ; and he said, " ; I' ; m going to send it out, if it' ; s all right with you, saying that you and I jointly announce this." ; Well, golly, you don' ; t know how much I appreciated that because I had no way of-- BENNETT SR: Yeah. Well, that' ; s why he came to be a great senator. STEPHENS: That' ; s correct. BENNETT JR: Well, he was a very human person. STEPHENS: Well, he did. BENNETT JR: Now the reason that I flew with him that time, now this was November, 1965, while he was there staying at our house, the embassy residence, I had word that my mother, who was seriously ill and who did pass away later that month, her condition had taken a turn for the worse. And he said, " ; Well, the thing for you to do is to fly with me so' ; s you can get home fast." ; And we left the next morning and he got off in the Bahamas but sent me on over to Miami in his own plane so that I could get a commercial flight home. And that was again evidence of his humanity. STEPHENS: Well, he just never got to be too big a big shot to be a man and recognize his friends and to look after them. And I think that quality stands out in everything he did. BENNETT JR: I never saw him when he wasn' ; t entirely calm and judicious in his comments on things. STEPHENS: Yes. BENNETT JR: He wasn' ; t one to fly off the handle or to make flamboyant statements. STEPHENS: Well, when he was governor, wasn' ; t he, Mr. Bennett, one of our youngest governors? BENNETT SR: He was the youngest governor. STEPHENS: Was he the youngest? BENNETT SR: Yeah. STEPHENS: That we ever had at that time. BENNETT SR: Yeah, that' ; s right. STEPHENS: I think-- BENNETT JR: You remember his statement to Teddy [Edward M.] Kennedy, don' ; t you? Did you ever hear that? STEPHENS: NO, I don' ; t remember that. BENNETT JR: Well you see, Kennedy visited me in Greece when he was not yet thirty, this was back in 1962, I guess, and he-- STEPIENS: He just had become a senator. BENNETT JR: Well no, he was just about to announce-- STEPHENS: Announce, that' ; s right. BENNETT JR: He wasn' ; t even thirty yet, but he announced on his thirtieth birthday. But he was making the required trips for a Massachusetts politician to Israel, to Greece and to Italy. So I was in charge of the embassy in Greece at the time, and had a very interesting two or three days with him. Well, later when he was--(At this point, Stephens must have re-recorded over this part of Mr. Bennett' ; s statement. The transcript follows exactly as he recorded it.) STEPHENS: This oral history interview has taken place here in Athens, Georgia on October the thirtieth, nineteen hundred and seventy-seven. I believe I better correct that, today' ; s the twenty-ninth, Saturday the twenty-ninth and not the thirtieth. BENNETT JR: --of a Senator from my state. Well, Senator Russell looked at him and in a slow, calm way said, " ; But you forget I had already served two terms as governor before I was elected to the senate." ; STEPHENS: Well, wasn' ; t there another story that you told me about his talking with Teddy Kennedy and Teddy Kennedy had told him that his older brother, who was then the president, had given him some advice about advising Senator Russell whenever he needed anything done on the Floor? BENNETT JR: Yes. STEPHENS: Did you tell me that? Had you heard that? BENNETT JR: No, I think that didn' ; t come from me, but I' ; m not at all surprised. STEPHENS: I was thinking you had discussed that, but-- BENNETT JR: Because President [John F.] Kennedy had served with and under Dick Russell as a younger senator. STEPHENS: Yes. Well at the Miami convention, I believe, when [Estes] Kefauver was nominated, as the vice-presidential candidate-- BENNETT JR: Right. STEPHENS: And the presidential candidate was Adlai Stevenson. Again that was when Senator Russell was prominently nom-- BENNETT JR: Mentioned himself. STEPHENS: Mentioned as a candidate. BENNETT JR: Yes. And then the big competition was once Adlai Stevenson had been nominated was between Kefauver and Jack Kennedy as vice-president. STEPHENS: And Jack Kennedy and Senator Russell, in my recollection, and I know we in Georgia felt that Kennedy would be the preference on that ticket, and I believe that if that had been a ticket, that it would have been the stronger ticket, but if Senator Russell had been on the ticket, it would have been great. BENNETT JR: Stronger still. Because that was during the years when you were losing southern states. STEPHENS: Yes, exactly, and dissident factions breaking off and I, like many people said, that we were not going ever to elect another president as a Democrat until we brought the South substantially back into the Democratic party. And that' ; s what happened this last time with Jimmy Carter. BENNETT JR: That' ; s why Carter won. STEPHENS: He won because he carried practically every one of the old Confederate states. BENNETT JR: I think Virginia' ; s the only one he didn' ; t carry. STEPHENS: The only one he didn' ; t carry, yes. Well I know that you' ; re busy as our representative in Brussels at NATO. It' ; s an important job and thank you very much, you and your father, for talking with us on this and I' ; m sure it' ; s going to make an important contribution to the Russell Library. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL216RBROH-125.xml RBRL216RBROH-125.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL216RBROH/findingaid
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43 minutes
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with W. Tap Bennet, Sr. and Jr., October 29, 1971
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RBRL216RBROH-125
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William Tapley Bennett, Sr.
William Tapley Bennett, Jr.
Robert Stephens
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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audio
oral histories
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sound
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Agriculture
Diplomatic and consular service
Foreign relations
Cold War
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1971-10-29
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United States
OHMS
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The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
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Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project
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United States--Officials and employees
State governments--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
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The Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project consists of 175 oral history interviews relating to the personal and political life of Richard B. Russell. Interviewees include members of the Russell family, his staff and interns, other senators and public figures, and friends. The primary interviewer was Hugh Cates, a public relations manager at Southern Bell and secretary of the Russell Foundation (1977-1981). Most of the interviews were recorded between 1971 and 1979, but the majority during 1971 after Senator Russell's death. Other interviewers include: William Stueck, Karen Kelly, Barboura Raesly, Robert G. Stephens, Jr., Dwight L. Freshley, Tom Jackson, Angus Hepburn, and Russell Library staff. Interviews provide insight into Senator Russell's political career as State Representative, Governor, and U.S. Senator, his views on various topics such as civil rights and Vietnam, and his personality and family life.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=23&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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1971-2002
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Oral histories
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RBRL216RBROH
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Georgia
Oral History
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL216RBROH-131/ohms
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5.4 Interview with D.W. Brooks, March 25, 1971 RBRL216RBROH-131 RBRL216RBROH Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia D.W. Brooks Hugh Cates oral history 1:|11(11)|23(10)|43(6)|56(9)|68(2)|79(1)|88(8)|98(9)|110(12)|120(9)|127(8)|136(13)|147(10)|156(12)|165(11)|176(3)|187(8)|197(12)|209(9)|219(5)|229(5)|237(9)|250(2)|261(1)|273(2)|282(9)|294(2)|303(12)|315(9)|324(14)|333(4)|342(3)|352(14)|362(13)|374(1)|384(10)|394(9)|404(4)|413(8)|423(14)|435(4)|444(1)|457(4)|470(6)|482(4)|493(8)|509(3)|519(3)|527(11)|537(10)|546(14)|557(1)|569(6)|584(4)|592(2)|601(13)|612(4)|622(13)|631(11)|642(2)|654(11)|664(7)|675(5)|690(5)|702(6)|713(7)|724(10)|736(7)|748(1)|758(4)|770(1)|784(5)|795(1)|805(5)|815(1)|826(3)|838(2)|851(6)|861(6)|881(11)|895(14)|908(7)|918(10)|929(2)|937(10)|949(2)|962(2)|984(4)|993(15)|1002(12)|1015(1)|1026(5)|1037(11)|1051(6)|1062(14)|1074(10)|1086(3)|1098(8)|1106(7)|1115(7)|1123(13)|1134(10)|1165(2)|1174(10)|1186(7)|1201(1)|1212(6)|1225(6)|1236(6)|1247(15)|1257(1)|1269(12)|1277(7)|1285(15)|1298(1) 0 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_970pxilp& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_te77s9jb" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow=" ; autoplay * ; fullscreen * ; encrypted-media *" ; frameborder=" ; 0" ; title=" ; Kaltura Player" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 19 Russell as a UGA law student / Increasing Great Depression income levels through the Cotton Producers Association Mr. Brooks, what do you recall about the University of Georgia student days, you in the school of agriculture and Dick Russell as a senior law student? agriculture ; college ; economics ; economy ; farming ; Georgia legislature ; Great Depression ; leadership ; personality ; politics ; poverty ; research ; science ; Senator George ; University of Georgia 17 510 Russell's work for Southern farmers through the Agriculture Committee Was Russell on the agriculture committee at that time? appropriations ; crop production ; Department of Agriculture ; economics ; economy ; farming ; Great Depression ; Henry Wallace ; influence ; parity payments ; poverty ; Senator Bankhead 17 1334 Russell's support for agricultural research / Russell's careful tracking of campaign finances / Characterizing Russell Mr. Brooks, how did Russell look upon research in agriculture? appropriations ; bachelor ; dating ; donors ; frugality ; funding ; fundraising ; integrity ; marriage ; morality ; mother ; personality ; singleness 17 2061 Russell's prospects for the presidency Would you mind commenting, Mr. Brooks, about Russell's association with the four presidents that you were advisor to? 1952 ; candidacy ; conservatism ; Democratic Party ; influence ; leadership ; liberalism ; minorities ; nomination ; race ; voting record 17 2794 Considering work as Kennedy's Secretary of Agriculture Mr. Brooks, did Russell ever discuss with you the possibility of your becoming Secretary of Agriculture? appointment ; Cotton Producers Association ; Johnson ; Kennedy ; Phil Campbell 17 3227 Distrust of Mormon Secretary of Agriculture Ezra Taft Benson Mr. Brooks, before we began taping, you mentioned to me something about a little controversy with Senator Russell about Ezra (Taft) Benson ; would you mind relating that again? discrimination ; economics ; economy ; Eisenhower ; National Council of Farmer Cooperators ; religion 17 3786 Advising Russell on agricultural policy / Agricultural trade with the Soviet Union / Farmers' independence from the federal government I know before the taping, you indicated that on occasions Senator Russell would send a bill down to you to have it checked over, and you would change it... Cotton Producers Association ; Department of Agriculture ; economics ; Gold Kist ; hunger ; legislation ; legislative process ; productivity ; tariffs ; theory ; USSR 17 4267 The Cold War politics of alleviating famine / Russell and Madame Chiang Kai-Shek / Brooks's foreign exchange program for agricultural education Mr. Brooks, everyone knows about your personal efforts to help famine-threatened nations learn to feed themselves... capitalism ; China ; communism ; development ; economics ; food aid ; foreign policy ; foreign relations ; Formosa ; income ; ownership ; poverty ; productivity ; research 17 4902 Georgia's broiler program / The Truman-MacArthur hearings Mr. Brooks, I know you object to federal tampering with all our production, and how did Russell feel about this? Douglas MacArthur ; Korea ; state intervention ; subsidies ; trade ; Truman ; War Mobilization Board 17 5464 The Chattanooga complex / Senator Herman Talmadge / Russell's contributions to the Kennedy-Johnson ticket You had said something to me about a government complex in Chattanooga (Tennessee), which was later leased and thereby saving a lot of money for the government. budget ; campaign ; industry ; money 17 6166 Russell and Lyndon Johnson's relationship / Russell's advice during the Cuban Missile Crisis / Russell's Sunday school So, we might just get back to the Johnson thing right now if you have any other comments. Cold War ; communism ; influence ; Kennedy ; Khrushchev ; nomination ; Russia ; seniority ; soft power ; Soviet Union 17 CATES: This is Hugh Cates, March 25, 1971. I' ; m in the office of D.W. Brooks, who is chairman of the board of the Gold Kist Company, formerly the Cotton Producers Association and a longtime friend of the late Senator Russell. Mr. Brooks, what do you recall about the University of Georgia student days, you in the school of agriculture and Dick Russell as a senior law student? BROOKS: When I entered the University of Georgia as a freshman, I soon began to hear of Dick Russell as one of the great students on the campus. As I recall, he had already finished the university and was in law school at that time, and he' ; d made such an impression among the student body and been such an effective leader that he was already considered the leader on the university campus at that time. He, being in law school and I as a freshman, naturally, (laughs) I did not have too much contact with the leader of the campus. I did meet him and had a chance to visit with him some, but not as a close personal friend at that time. But he was a great leader and all of us looked to him for leadership on the university campus. CATES: You mentioned the fact several times that he was a leader. Exactly what exemplified his leadership at that time? BROOKS: Well, as I recall, he was a political leader on the campus as well as a natural leader of people. He apparently had some political ability, even on the university campus. You see, it' ; s been said here in Georgia that lots of the political leaders of this state have gotten their early training on the campus at the University of Georgia, because we always had plenty of politics going on the campus. So, Dick Russell was the political leader at the time that I went to the university as a freshman. CATES: What was the enrollment about that time, do you recall, at the university? BROOKS: Well, it was quite small at that time. I don' ; t recall exactly, but six or eight hundred students probably. CATES: Do you recall any humorous situations that might have involved Senator Russell at that time? BROOKS: I do not at that time. That was a little early, and unfortunately, it' ; s been a few years ago since this happened. CATES: Do you recall any personal conversations that you might have had with him, either at the university or maybe later when Russell became involved in the legislature of Georgia, when he became Speaker of the House? BROOKS: Well, I remember seeing Senator Russell a few times during that period, but I was not particularly interested in politics and I only visited with him as (on) a personal basis, having known him at the university. So, consequently, I did not have too much contact with him while he was in the House, or even later as governor, except on a personal basis. CATES: It might be well at this time if you would, Mr. Brooks, to state what you were doing about the time that Russell was in the Georgia legislature. I believe you were teaching at the University of Georgia. BROOKS: Well, I first was teaching at the university and then, later I left the university and organized Cotton Producers Association in 1933. You see, the depression had come along and we had great suffering particularly in agriculture, where the per capita income of farmers had gone to $72 for a year' ; s work. Senator Russell, of course, was a great political leader even that early, and all of us who were interested in agriculture were trying to find ways and means of helping to create a better situation for farmers. So, during that period, I had a chance to visit with Senator Russell a few times, but not from the viewpoint of doing too much about agriculture, because it was becoming a federal problem instead of a state problem because it was widespread. We were considered the economic problem number one of the nation and there was lots of publicity to that effect because of our extremely low income here in Georgia, particularly, and in some of the other southeastern states. CATES: What advice did Russell give to you about starting the Cotton Producers Association? BROOKS: Well, (laughs) he gave me some advice after I started it. I felt that I could do more for farmers by leaving the university and starting Cotton Producers Association than I could do by staying at the university as a professor. I felt that we had had some real scientific breakthroughs in agriculture and that they would not be any good unless they were really made available to farmers and I felt by starting Cotton Producers, I could set up a business institution that could make these scientific breakthroughs actually available to farmers, where they could immediately put them into effect. Unfortunately, every effort that farmers had made prior to that time to put any kind of business institution together had failed, in dismal failure, and instead of helping they had had tremendous losses. Consequently, I knew that, very forcibly, because a great many farmers had told me that with a great deal of feeling, and I realized that we had great problems and difficulties in doing it. After I determined that we were going to try to do it, and I felt that with the know-how that we had at that time in agriculture that we had a chance to succeed, I felt it was urgent that I talk with Senator (Herman Eugene) Talmadge and Senator, I mean Senator Russell and Senator (Walter F.) George about this matter. So, I asked for a meeting with Senator Russell and Senator George, in which I spent some two or three hours explaining what I had in mind. They, of course, both said to me in no uncertain terms that every effort that had ever been tried before had failed ; instead of it being helpful to farmers, it had really penalized them, because they had lost whatever funds had gone into the institution. I explained that I felt with the present scientific breakthroughs that we had while I was teaching at the university that I could take those and make a business success and a great financial success for farmers with such an institution, that I could move farmers ahead much faster economically this way than I could continuing on the faculty at the university. They were both very sympathetic, both Senator George and Senator Russell, and they said they were very hopeful that I could do what I hoped to do. I am sure they had some reservations and they did not express them to me in any violent way, by any means ; they just said they hoped that I could do what I was saying that I thought I could do. So, I was really given encouragement by both Senator Russell and Senator George to go ahead, but I think probably they both had their fingers crossed to some extent as to whether it would actually work or not. CATES: Was Russell on the agriculture committee at that time? BROOKS: Yes, when Senator Russell went to Washington, he was placed on the agriculture committee and later became chairman of the Appropriations Committee for agriculture. I had, of course, a number of experiences with him. I began to work very closely with him, and in fact, after this first meeting with Senator Russell and Senator George, Senator Russell in effect cemented the early friendship that we had starting back at the university and did everything he could to make me feel like he wanted to be helpful, not just to me personally, but to the things that I was trying to do, that is, to get the farmers off of the economic bottom that we were on. He made me know that he would welcome my working with him ; in fact, he immediately began to call me and talk with me about farm problems and about appropriations, and I had some rather unusual experiences with him in that, in the early days, when things were really desperate. For example, Roosevelt of course was trying to get the economy going and he was probably rather liberal in his viewpoint of moving it. Senator Russell was also very liberal in his viewpoint in the great need that we had to get out of the depression and to stop some of the hunger and nakedness that we had, particularly in this part of the country. It was finally decided to appropriate six hundred million dollars to what we call parity payments in order to adjust the production of many crops and even livestock. The problem was the proper handling of these funds. Well, I at that time felt that I had to check every bill and so I went to Washington, and the bill had already passed through the House, for the six hundred million appropriations. So I went to the Department of Agriculture in order to get the figures to see how we would come out in the southeast. When I did so, I found a closed door. They had some of these very complex formulas like Pi equals Z and Z equals 2, and so forth and so on, and you couldn' ; t read the dollars and cents. I soon realized that it was a deliberate effort to confuse what the payments would be and to what area. Since we were the economic problem number one of the nation, I felt that certainly we were entitled to our fair share, because we had the greatest need, and actually the South had not fully recovered even then from some of the effects of the war. We did not have a (George C.) Marshall Plan to get us back on our feet, and so we' ; d had a long siege of depressed situations in the South, particularly in agriculture. Well, when I could not get the answers, I went to Senator Russell, who always was the person that I depended on to help me and to help the farmers. And I explained to him what happened. He immediately went to Senator (John Hollis) Bankhead (II), who was chairman of the agriculture committee, and explained this to Senator Bankhead and they decided to hold up the entire appropriation for the Department of Agriculture until this could be determined. You can readily realize when this happened it blew the roof off (laughs) in Washington, because it not only held up this particular appropriation, but it held up the entire appropriation for the Department of Agriculture. Consequently, Secretary (Henry A.) Wallace, who was the Secretary of Agriculture at that time, who later became vice president for one term, became very much upset. He found out through certain sources that I was involved in this matter, and he called Oscar Johnson, who was president of this large delta pine land farm--which was a tremendous cotton farm owned by British interests, but operated by Oscar Johnson in Mississippi--and asked Oscar to come up there immediately to help him meet this crisis. Well, fortunately, I knew Oscar well, personally, and he knew me and when the Secretary called him, he called me and told me what had happened and that he was flying to Washington and wanted to see me. When he reached Washington he came to my room at the hotel and I explained to him exactly what had happened, that all I was trying to find out was what the facts were and that my guess was that the secretary didn' ; t know any more than I did and that this was one of these shufflings that had gone on among certain groups to continue to penalize the South and pour the money into other areas where it might be more political, palatable. Oscar was very keen, a very brilliant person, and so he immediately went over to see the secretary ; and in his very keen way, he told the secretary of our conversation and he said that D.W. is not mad ; you' ; re the one who' ; s mad at he (sic) and Senator Russell and Senator Bankhead. They' ; re not mad ; they just want some figures. And he said, I' ; m confident if you will just show the dollars and cents here to me, I can go back and explain it to all three of them without any trouble and we can get the bill passed. And he said that, as I had suspected, the secretary was just as blank as a sheet of paper that he knew absolutely nothing about how the distribution was to be made. Then, Mr. Johnson suggested that he bring the man in and get the figures. Well, when he brought the man in who was supposed to be handling them, he was stalling and said that, of course, he did not have any such figures. Then the secretary became enraged and said, how long would it take to get them? Well, it will probably take several weeks. He said, then I will just stop all the salaries of everybody in the Department of Agriculture for several weeks, until I get these figures. Well, that of course did it and the next day we had the figures. When we got the figures it upset the secretary because we were being cheated out of some sixty or seventy million dollars to which we were entitled here in the cotton South, and he immediately recognized that and was rather apologetic, really, of the fact that he' ; d been so embittered with what we had done about stopping the appropriation to the Department of Agriculture. So, when that was adjusted I immediately went back to Senator Russell and he to Senator Bankhead--and I talked with Senator Bankhead also several times--and we put the bill through, but it made a tremendous difference. Except for the help of Senator Russell, the farmers of the South would have been cheated out of sixty or seventy million dollars, in that one instance. There are many more through all the years that I can tell you about, but that was in the early days of the Depression, when we were literally starving to death and when we desperately needed every penny we could get at that time. Now, I might comment at this time that Senator Bankhead--in talking with him about this, Senator Bankhead not only said at that time, but many times thereafter, he said that because he was chairman of the Senate Finance Committee that, Senate agriculture committee, that he was given credit in all the newspapers and all the releases for all of the things that was done for agriculture, but actually the person who did all the work and who did the real digging in and getting the facts and doing the job was Senator Russell. He said to me--many times, he said, " ; You people in agriculture, you people in Georgia do not yet appreciate the most able man that we have on the Senate agriculture committee and he is the person who has the time and the ability and is willing to spend the time to dig in to get all the facts and figures. Consequently, when he gets in the committee, he dominates the committee." ; He said, " ; I do not dominate it ; he dominates it, because he' ; s the man who has the knowledge and he comes in with it to the committee and he dominates the committee." ; " ; So," ; he says, " ; I get all the publicity and all the credit and Senator Russell does all the work and gets the job done, and you need to know that." ; CATES: Mr. Brooks, can you think of any other incident, maybe not as spectacular as the one that you just recounted, that happened in the early days, in the early 1930s when he was on the agriculture committee? BROOKS: Well, each time that the question of a new farm bill came up, Senator Russell was kind enough to ask me to come and visit with him and go over the bills. At that time, we had no general farm organization in Georgia and he felt that he had to rely on my technical knowledge and training in agriculture and he was kind enough to have confidence, not only in my training but also in my honesty, that I would not mislead him, that I would put it on the line as it was. So, every bill--I would have to go back and review--but every bill--For example, in 1938, we had a bill that was really the foundation of the agriculture bill in this country, was passed. Senator Russell was the leader in passing that bill and I could recall as we move along through the years that he was the person who was there and did the work. Now, you see, you have to understand this, that Senator Russell was a real student of government. He was a real student of agriculture, and later as chairman of the Armed Services Committee--He was single and he did not have the responsibility of a family ; he did not have to go home at a certain time and what he did was just study. He dug it out. Many congressmen and senators have said to me through the years that the greatest thing that happened to them was to be on a conference committee between the Senate and the House where Senator Russell was the leader from the Senate ; and they said the knowledge that he had, that he brought into the hearings always dominated it, because he was by far the most knowledgeable person. He had done the greatest amount of research and work on the bill and consequently, he had the most of it and his judgment was good and he was absolutely honest. In that way, he swayed not only the senators, but in these conference committees between the House and the Senate he had powerful influence on the decision of these committees, joint committees between the House and the Senate. So I think when all the truth is known about his work, it' ; ll be determined that he influenced more people in both houses of Congress than any person we' ; ve had in this century. CATES: Mr. Brooks, how did Russell look upon research in agriculture? BROOKS: Senator Russell felt that research was the answer to many of our problems and he was intensely interested in research from the beginning, so much so that every time we got into an appropriation problem in agriculture, he realized the necessity of immediate funds at times, but he always looked to the future. And he said, " ; The way you cure something for the future is to have scientific research." ; Of course, my background of training was in that field, having been a professor in the university where we were doing tremendous agriculture research. Naturally, I was intensely interested and I was always delighted to see his intense interest in this, because I, too, felt that gave us some answers down the road and that we could not do everything immediately, that we had to cure not only some of the immediate problems but we had to look down the future and cure some of the future problems. So, he was always intensely interested in appropriations for research, and I could always depend on him. If we desperately needed some money for research, then I could go up and plead my case and make my case with him. I was reasonably confident we was going to get the money, because he had the ability to sell the senators and in the case of the committees--when the House committees and Senate committees--he was able to sell them on doing the job. As you know, he brought tremendous research money to agriculture, and even in Georgia we have a research center down at Dawson (Georgia) on peanuts that he personally brought, and really on his own. Then, the great research center that we have now over at Athens (Georgia)--I went over with him when this was dedicated last year and it was a great experience for all of us in agriculture. Of course, it was a great experience for Senator Russell, as he was able to bring that to this state. So that was one of his really great desires--to see that agriculture was properly funded for research. CATES: Much has been said about Russell' ; s frugality. Would you mind commenting about this characteristic? BROOKS: Well, he was in many ways one of the most frugal men that I ever knew. Now he just didn' ; t waste any of his money. He never tried to go out and make a lots of money on the outside ; he was too busy, as a United States Senator and he did not take the time to do that. But he believed in saving his own money out of a meager salary and he believed in saving the government' ; s money. Consequently, that' ; s one thing I learned very early in life in working with Senator Russell--that if you wanted any money you sure better prove your case and prove it fully and completely, that he was not going to have any boon-doggling in government funds, and that you had to prove that those funds were going to be effective and they were going to be spent properly. So, he was a very frugal man in every respect. Now, later on maybe we' ; ll comment about some of his political campaigns. CATES: Well, let' ; s do that as far as his contributions ran. BROOKS: Well, we might go ahead and do that now. For example, as you well know, everybody who is in politics, they now have to have money in which to run on. Now, Senator Russell had to have some funds to run on at times and at times he thought he was going to have strong opposition that didn' ; t develop thankfully ; but funds had to be made available and he had to spend some funds in order to have his campaign--fixed. Well, all of us have had to contribute personally to political campaigns and every person that I' ; ve ever known in public life has always been able to spend every dime that you' ; ve ever been able to give them for political campaigns, but Senator Russell was a different person. He was so frugal with not only his own money, but with your money, and that' ; s very unusual for a person in public life, because the easiest thing to do is be free with somebody else' ; s money. Consequently, his frugality followed right on through into even his personal political career. For example, I' ; ve sent him funds and many of my friends sent him funds. The minute he felt that he had the political situation in hand, he would stop spending that money ; and then as soon as the campaign was over, he' ; d sit down and give you full accounting of every penny that was spent and then whatever was left, he' ; d mail you a check for it. Now, I' ; m forty-nine and holding now and been in lots of political campaigns and made contributions to lots of people in public life, whom I' ; ve felt were serving the public well and we need to hold them, but never before or since have I ever had one penny returned from any person in public life except Senator Russell. Now that did two things: that shows first how careful he is with expenditures of other people' ; s money ; and second, his integrity, that he was just not going to be careless with your money. He was going to use only that which he felt was absolutely necessary ; and to me, that further indicates the kind of morality that he had and the kind of moral life that he lived, which is rather unusual in public life as well as other kinds of life. CATES: You mentioned his integrity ; would you mind commenting about these other personality traits that relate to Russell, sincerity and dedication? BROOKS: Well, I' ; ve had the privilege of seeing so-called greatness in public life for a long time. I have been advisor, agricultural advisor to four presidents. I have had the privilege of sitting behind closed doors with these presidents and see them operate them as they are, not as the public image sometimes held them. They were great and fine and wonderful people. It was a great privilege to serve with them behind closed doors and also with lots of people whom they had brought in as advisors to them, many of them who were very able and wonderful people ; but I can say very frankly that having known them reasonably well and having known Senator Russell that Senator Russell is one of the great men and probably the greatest man of this century that we' ; ve had in public life. As many people know in Washington, and I have been told many times by congressmen and senators, if we had had another system of electing the president, Senator Russell would have been president many, many years ago. For example, if the congressmen and senators were allowed to elect the president, he would have been elected president many, many years ago, because he was by far the most dedicated, the most sincere, the hardest working person in Washington. There' ; s no one, president or otherwise, who worked as diligently and with as great a dedication as Senator Russell did for the people of this nation. So, I would say that nobody surpassed him--and as far as I know, and I have had the rather unusual privilege of working, as I said, behind closed doors with four presidents--and no one that I know has had the dedication that he' ; s had to his work. Now, as I said earlier, he had a rather favorable situation in that he was a bachelor ; (Begin side 2, cassette #178) he did not have a family, but I' ; ve known lots of bachelors who frittered their lives away. He was sort of like St. Paul ; he did the good things and he lived the productive life and he made the personal sacrifice in order to do this, because a person has to give up a lot in life and he has to make a great sacrifice to live the type of life that Senator Russell lived as the greatest senator of this century in Washington. CATES: Mr. Brooks, you were very close to Senator Russell, obviously ; did he ever discuss with you why he never married? BROOKS: No, (laughs) he never did. I think that his mother, you know, was very close to him, and when he became governor that was a big discussion of who was going to be the First Lady. He always said his mother would work with him, be with him. In all my discussion with him--was that apparently his mother had such a great impact on his life that even though he felt that maybe he had a great loss in not marrying and not having a family, that to some extent the greatness of his mother compensated in his life some for that loss. CATES: Do you know of any engagements or near engagements as far as he was concerned? BROOKS: No, I do not. He used to have dates with girls and he would mention it sometimes, and at times I was with him when he had dates, or I would see him at dinners or something of that kind. He never did say to me that he was seriously thinking about marrying that particular girl. So, as far as I know, he did not ever actually plan to marry ; but he might have, because very often we were talking agriculture and other things rather than items of that kind, although at times we did get into some of his personal life. CATES: Would you mind commenting, Mr. Brooks, about Russell' ; s association with the four presidents that you were advisor to? BROOKS: The presidents recognized that Senator Russell had the kind of ability that I have been talking about, as well as dedication. Consequently, they realized he was by far the most powerful person in the Congress. Consequently, they depended on him ; every president depended on him for advice and help, and he was always constantly called to the White House for conferences. If there was ever any crisis in this nation, you could depend on it that Senator Russell was called to the White House for his opinions and his judgment as to what should be done. So, even the presidents looked up to him and not down to him, and they realized that we had real greatness there and they realized that if he had been born in the Midwest or some Northern state, that he would have been president long before they were president, because he had that kind of ability. CATES: I would like to throw this out at this time. I have interviewed a person that I hold in high esteem, who knew Senator Russell, and he said in his opinion that he didn' ; t believe Russell would have ever become president regardless of where he was born, because Russell was basically a conservative and that the country would not elect a conservative president. Would you comment on that? BROOKS: Well, I don' ; t agree with that at all. I think that' ; s in my opinion, a misjudgment of the fact as it is. Senator Russell was not a conservative in many respects. In the early days of his serving in the Senate, he was considered quite a liberal ; and I think it was only in later life that he was considered the ultimate conservative and that was primarily due to his stand with reference to civil rights, which very few people ever understood really--his feelings or emotions in that case. He did not feel as the public thought he felt with reference to civil rights. He was a liberal in every other respect and I think that if he had actually run for president from another area that that part of his life would have been properly explained and he would have gotten a lots of votes from the minority groups, because he was not opposed to minority groups at all. He had a great human feeling that he wanted to lift them off of the economic bottom the same as everyone else. If you' ; ll go back and study his record and his voting record, you' ; ll find that his voting record on things that really counted and really mattered was a liberal vote. It was not a conservative vote, and even if it had been conservative all the way through, I think that his ability was such that he still would have been elected president, because he was such an overpowering person personally that people had confidence in him that they would have been willing to risk it. For example, never once in my association with him, in my hundreds of trips to Washington, have I ever heard anyone say a derogatory word about Senator Russell personally, or anything that he did. The only criticism you ever had was that they were in disagreement, but they never questioned Senator Russell' ; s integrity, or anything that he did. Now that was not true of anyone else that I knew in Washington, even the presidents. They were criticized very severely personally, but nobody ever criticized Senator Russell personally for any of his personal conduct or some of the things that he did that they thought were questionable. Now, you don' ; t live that kind of life and not be able to win an election, because they just couldn' ; t have tied anything to him that would have been degrading, and that' ; s very unusual in a person in public life. So, I' ; m confident that if Senator Russell had lived outside of the South, or even as I' ; ve said before, if the Senate and Congress could have voted for the president, he would have been president early in life, very early in life, Of course, as you know he was nominated for president, and I was working with him. I was very closely associated with him and I was trying to get agriculture all over this country to support him, because I knew of his interest in farmers and in the low income that farmers have had to suffer and I knew about his knowledge of agriculture, which was terrific. I worked diligently to get as many farm votes as I could for him, but as you well know, agriculture has been losing political ground for a long time. We do not have the numbers now, so we did not have the votes in agriculture to nominate him, but it would have been a great thing for agriculture if we could have. As you noticed, he got a lots of votes--as I recall three hundred or more--so he had lots of support even though he lived in the wrong place. CATES: Were you at that convention in 1952? BROOKS: No, I' ; ve frankly never been to a convention. I' ; ve been to some extent an independent all my life, feeling that I was more interested in the individual than I was in the party ; consequently, I' ; ve never been a strong, maybe partisanship as you normally would be. A lots of people-naturally being in the South, we came up as Democrats, that' ; s human and natural, but at times (there) have been poor Democratic leadership and poor Democratic administration. If the Republican leadership was stronger, then I always felt it was perfectly in order to switch parties if that was necessary to bring about an improvement in government. Senator Russell was in the position that he had to take an oath that he would support the party and he did that. He told me many times--he said, now when I, as you well know, when I make a commitment I live with it ; but he said, I' ; ll have to admit that sometimes I' ; ve had to hold my nose when I voted. Now, fortunately, I did not have to hold my nose to vote sometimes ; consequently, I voted my convictions. I had made no such commitment. Now, I' ; m confident that there were times when Senator Russell would have voted for a Republican president, except for his commitment to the Democratic party, which he felt that he could not violate. CATES: Mr. Brooks, do you think he had also an ulterior motive in holding the chairmanships, holding positions in the Senate ; that is, if he stayed a Democrat as opposed to being an independent voter, or switching his vote to a Republican on occasions, like some office holders have done? BROOKS: I doubt that. He was too dedicated and sincere to do that. He was such a powerful individual that I don' ; t think it was very important whether he was chairman or just a member of the committee. I think he was going to dominate the committee with his knowledge, his ability and his dedication and his integrity, regardless of what position he held on the committee. I think that was true as I said about Senator Bankhead. Bankhead was a great senator, but he told me many times that he, as chairman, he got the credit, but Senator Russell was the person who dominated the committee. I think he would have dominated the committee regardless of whether he was chairman or not. CATES: Mr. Brooks, do you think that Senator Russell considered himself as a serious candidate in 1952? BROOKS: Well, I think he felt that he had a chance to get a reasonable number of votes, and since he was more or less put into the position of a candidate, that he wanted to get as many votes as he could get in order to make a decent showing. I do not think that he felt that he had any real chance of being president because of the circumstances, which he was very realistic about, but since he was pushed into that position, he felt that he wanted to make as good a showing as he could for many reasons. Of course, I was very hopeful that he would get a large vote, and I think all of us were quite pleased when he was able to get three hundred or more votes as I recall. CATES: The reason I asked the question--some have said that they thought that he just wanted to voice the Southern viewpoint and that he wanted to be the spokesman for this particular group and that he never seriously thought he had a chance maybe of winning the nomination. BROOKS: Well, I was rather close to him at that time and talked with him many times. As I said, I tried to hound agriculture into the vote for him, and I did lots of calling and writing and talking with many people in agriculture in order to get him as much support as I could from everyone who came out of agriculture as a delegate to the convention. His discussion with me indicated that he was very anxious to make a good showing, because that would then do lots of things that were good. He never said to me that he felt that he could, that he was going to be president. So, that would indicate to me that he was not sure in his mind at all that he had a chance to be president, but I think he felt that a good showing would be helpful to the South, that he would voice--be able, as you said, to voice some opinions that would be very helpful. From that viewpoint, he was anxious to get as much support as he could get. CATES: During that particular campaign, if he could not have gotten the nomination, and of course he did not, who was his choice? Did he ever discuss that with you? BROOKS: No, he did not. CATES: Mr. Brooks, did Russell ever discuss with you the possibility of your becoming Secretary of Agriculture? BROOKS: Yes, he did on numerous occasions. He was very kind to me personally. In view of the fact that, fortunately, Cotton Producers Association became a very successful business institution for farmers, and he felt that it raised the income level of farmers rather substantially in the areas in which we operated and with the technical training that I had in agriculture, he felt that I ought to be considered as Secretary of Agriculture. In fact, he talked with me about it a number of times and I rather discouraged him, because I always felt that the worse thing a person could do would be to go to Washington, in particular as Secretary of Agriculture, because that has been a very difficult and a thankless job and one where you always wonder how effective you can be as Secretary of Agriculture, but he made some very strong efforts to try to make me Secretary of Agriculture. He had been helpful--finally, and I don' ; t know whether you will raise that question or not, but with reference to Senator (John Fitzgerald) Kennedy and Senator (Lyndon Baines) Johnson' ; s campaign when they ran for president and vice-president, he had finally at the end been rather effective. I think then Senator Kennedy felt under great obligation to Senator Russell and he felt that he ought to do what he could to be kind to Senator Russell. I don' ; t know whether this was brought out or not, but I was up there with Senator Russell right after Kennedy was elected president. Kennedy called Senator Russell in his office and told him he wanted to come down and visit with him. Senator Russell, being very gracious as he always was, and since Senator Kennedy had been elected president, he said to Senator Kennedy, " ; No, you stay in your office and I will come to see you," ; and that is what happened. Now, a little while after that, Senator Russell called me and stated to me that he was with Senator Kennedy and that the question was the appointment of a Secretary of Agriculture and he had said to Senator Kennedy that he thought that I had the ability to do it and that he was very anxious that I be appointed Secretary of Agriculture. He said that Senator Kennedy told him that in several of his speeches in the Midwest he had made a statement to the effect that if he were elected president, that he would nominate a Secretary of Agriculture from the Midwest and he did not feel that he could violate those campaign commitments, but that if I would take the place as Under Secretary of Agriculture, he would like very much for me to visit with him and see if we could work it out. Senator Russell said that he was sitting there with Senator Kennedy and that they wanted my answer, and I said to him if they had to have the answer then, the answer would be no. He said, then, would I be willing to consider it ; and I said, " ; Yes, I' ; ll be willing to consider it until this afternoon" ; --that was in the morning--and which I did. Of course, I felt deeply grateful to Senator Russell for his confidence and, naturally, I did not want to just abruptly say no, but when he asked me I had to say my conviction. I met with our staff here at Cotton Producers at that time at lunch, and we felt that it would be a mistake for me to leave. We were in a great growth period and we had many things that we thought were being developed which would greatly raise the income of farmers in the years ahead ; and the feeling was that it would be bad and wrong for me to leave, that if I did the job here as I should that I ought to be just as effective in the long pull for agriculture as I could be as Secretary of Agriculture. That afternoon, I called Senator Russell back and explained this to him and told him that I could not accept such an appointment. Somehow, he always felt that because all the other efforts of farmers for putting such an institution together had failed, that somehow I had developed some kind of miracle touch to make it work and so he felt that if I could become Secretary of Agriculture, maybe I could perform some of these so-called miracles for agriculture as a whole. Of course, he was far overestimating my capacity and my ability and my performance, but nevertheless, it: as very kind of him, and I was deeply appreciative of the fact that he did feel that I had the ability to perform such a responsible job. CATES: Mr. Brooks, did he, when (James Philander) Phil Campbell (Jr.) was appointed Under Secretary of Agriculture, discuss this matter with you? BROOKS: I discussed it and he was, of course, interested in getting someone from Georgia naturally in a strong position in the Department of Agriculture, and we' ; ve had other people there. You see, Harry Brown at one time was Assistant Secretary of Agriculture, John Duncan was Assistant Secretary of Agriculture ; so, really, Phil Campbell was the third person that we' ; ve had in one of the top places in the Department of Agriculture. He (Russell) was instrumental and helpful in getting all of these people appointed. As you well know, in Washington, nobody' ; s appointed unless they first talk with their senators, and I' ; m confident that nobody in this area has ever been appointed to anything of importance unless the president or whoever was involved talked with Senator Russell, because he was such a powerful person and dedicated person that they just didn' ; t go by him. They always wanted to talk with him first. CATES: Mr. Brooks, before we began taping, you mentioned to me something about a little controversy with Senator Russell about Ezra (Taft) Benson ; would you mind relating that again? BROOKS: Well, when Ezra became the Secretary of Agriculture, of course, people had mixed emotions, but a great many people did not know Ezra and did not know too much about him. Personally, I had known him for many years ; in fact, I had been president of the National Council of Farmer Cooperators and Ezra had been secretary of the Council, so I had had a very close working relationship with Ezra for a period of many years. Now, right or wrong, Ezra had some very definite opinions of what ought to be done in agriculture, which within themselves were good but taken in the overall look of government were bad. For example, his religious philosophy, being a Mormon, was that nobody should have anything from the government. For example, the Mormon church never permitted a member of their church to go on WPA (Works Progress Administration) back during the depression. They said that it was the responsibility of the church to carry these people, and so consequently, they set up warehouses of food and clothing and things that were necessary for survival of their members--the church did, the members of the church--and they would never permit a member to go on WPA. It was my understanding if a person ever went on WPA, they would have been turned out of the Mormon church. Now, that is maybe a very tough philosophy, and it went even beyond that in that they wouldn' ; t give anything to anyone unless they were sick and desperate and could not work ; but anybody who was physically able to work, they would give them food and clothing provided they came and worked maybe ten or twelve hours a day. They believed in hard work and you paying you way, and so, it was a very tough economic philosophy, one that maybe had some merit and one that possibly would have been helpful if you could have gotten that philosophy all the way across all of the economy in this country. That would have meant, of course, that we would have had to do away with many programs that we have in government, including many relief programs that we have. Well, Ezra was constantly trying to apply that philosophy solely to agriculture and no one else wanted to abide by it or agree to it. Consequently, Ezra was putting agriculture at times in great disadvantage in relation to the rest of the economy in the opinion of Senator Russell and the opinion of many other people, even his closest advisors. Now, I could go into some intimate, personal details on that, in which even President (Dwight David) Eisenhower was greatly concerned. I was advisor to President Eisenhower in agriculture, and we used every means that could be known to use to try to loosen Ezra up on some of his philosophy, because we said it' ; s fine and good, but it' ; s not applicable because it won' ; t fit into the overall pattern. Well, Senator Russell, of course, became threadbare with that finally. So, he got him a bill and got enough people to vote for it ; he got them committed, which you generally do ahead of time in effect, to take lots of the power out of Ezra' ; s hands in agriculture. It put us in a very difficult position, because I was in sympathy with what Senator Russell wanted to do, but I felt that in justice to any Secretary of Agriculture, not just Ezra, that you couldn' ; t operate that way, that if you were going to put a man in charge and hold him responsible that you could not at the same time take the power away from him to do anything about it, and as bad as it was, I felt that sooner or later Ezra would break his neck, one way or another, and he would get put out or he would have to bend enough to let you survive. So, I went over and sat down with Senator Russell and went over this with him, and I said, " ; Administratively, it won' ; t work, it' ; s bad. Factually, of course, I' ; m in sympathy with what you' ; re trying to do, but administratively, it' ; s impossible. Therefore, I think that you need to lose this bill," ; and he looked at me rather funny (laughs) and he said, " ; D.W., I never have lost a bill since I' ; ve been in the Senate. Any bill that I ever drew up I never have lost one, and you' ; re asking me now to lose one." ; And I said, " ; Yes, unfortunately Senator, that' ; s what I am asking you to do, because I think it' ; s a mistake overall." ; And he sat there a long while and thought about it, and he said, " ; Well, as you know, we' ; ve never been crossed on anything in agriculture. I' ; ve always relied on your judgment, and if that' ; s your final judgment, I imagine I' ; ll have to lose this one." ; And I said, " ; Well, it hurts me to say it because we just never have been crossed up on anything before, but I just feel that this is a case where it' ; s wrong, it' ; s a mistake, and you ought to lose it." ; And he said, " ; Well, if that' ; s it, I' ; ll lose it." ; Well, it was sort of a, you can realize, a very touching kind of situation and a very difficult one for me, and for him, because we had worked so close together on everything in agriculture, but that was a rather touchy one. CATES: Mr. Brooks, do you think he was vindictive to draw up the bill to begin with, as far as Ezra Benson was concerned? What prompted him to do this? BROOKS: Well, what prompted him was that Ezra was blocking lots of the constructive legislation for agriculture because of his philosophy. Now, Ezra didn' ; t intend to be that way, but he had come up in the Mormon Church ; his father was a Mormon, and he became one of the twelve apostles of the Mormon Church. He was so steeped in that philosophy that he could not bend. Many times, I would talk with Ezra about something that was very urgent in agriculture, but cut across Mormon philosophy. And I would do it in the afternoon. And Ezra would say to me--we were very close, personally--" ; I believe I can go along with that ; I can do that. " ; But by the next morning, the Mormon philosophy had taken over during the night and he just couldn' ; t do it ; although it made economic sense and it was the right thing to do, it would cut across Mormon philosophy. I told him it reminded me one time in trying to explain it to a foreign group, I told him it was like an incident that happened down here in the South back during the War Between the States. General (Robert) Toombs raised an army, and his punchline out in the country where he was raising the army was that we could whip the damn Yankees with cornstalks. Well, after the war was over some of the people, rather unkind, asked Senator Toombs, said, " ; We understood you to say we could whip the damn Yankees with cornstalks" ; ; and Senator Toombs' ; immediate reply was, " ; We could have, if they' ; d fought with cornstalks!" ; (laughter) Now, Ezra' ; s philosophy was probably all right if everybody else would have abided by it, but unfortunately, nobody else wanted to abide by that philosophy. You couldn' ; t just pull agriculture out as one segment of the total economy and make it operate that way and survive and everybody else to go the other way, and that was what Ezra was trying to do. So, I don' ; t think Senator Russell was vindictive. I think it was a great concern, what was happening to agriculture under Secretary Benson' ; s direction. CATES: I know before the taping, you indicated that on occasions Senator Russell would send a bill down to you to have it checked over, and you would change it quite a bit, or suggest changes which he would usually follow. Would you comment about this? BEGIN SIDE 3, CASSETTE #179 BROOKS: Well, of course, he followed that as a pattern. He felt that I ought to check the bills and that if I checked them that I would maybe make some comments that would be helpful ; but once or twice it was rather amusing that he had had all of the staff of the Senate agricultural committee check a bill that he was working out to propose, then he would send it to the Department of Agriculture and have all their technicians to check it and approve it, and then he would send it down and I would punch some holes in it that were just glaring holes that it was hard to understand how they would go through those groups, and he would be quite startled and quite upset. He called me up and said he just didn' ; t understand how I could punch a hole in something by just taking it and reading it one time. And I said, " ; Well, the difference is, Senator, that the people on the staff up there and even the people in the Department of Agriculture, they' ; re working from theory, they' ; re working from papers, whereas I' ; m working here from day-to-day in the actuality of agriculture, what it actually is." ; Consequently, when I sit down and read a bill, I immediately interpret it in terms of what it actually does on the farm, and consequently, it' ; s rather easy for me to pick up some of these blunders or mistakes where it' ; s very difficult for them to do it, because they' ; re not in the day-to-day operations of agriculture, and that' ; s the difference. CATES: What were his comments to you concerning trade with countries behind the iron curtain, considering the fact, for example, that at one time Cotton Producers Association sold 400,000 bushels of Southern corn in Poland? BROOKS: Well, his attitude was quite liberal in the viewpoint of trade. It always was. Now, I think this--that he felt that we needed to take a harder line with Russia, for example, on many things ; that we were not taking as tough a line as we ought to take ; that we would come out better if we were tougher. He said that Russians understood toughness, they lived that kind of life and they understood it, and sometimes we were not quite as tough as we ought to be. He was anxious that you trade with these countries that had a chance to get loose from Russia, and that' ; s what we' ; ve been doing. Poland, Yugoslavia, and Czechoslovakia--these countries that you hopefully will eventually wean away from Russia. At least, if you can pull them away economically, you have a chance to pull them away otherwise in time. Consequently, he fully understood that. CATES: Gold Kist does business, I understand, in thirty countries despite rising tariffs. What did Russell say to you about such tariffs? BROOKS: Well, he was always intensely interested in world trade and world problems ; because he realized that we could not live unto ourselves that we had to be global in our viewpoint. Consequently, I think he was always very much pleased when he realized that we were taking farm products from this area and distributing them to people all over the world, that that was one effective way of raising the income level of farmers in this part of the world. You see, in that way you not only raised incomes here, but also you feed hungry people, and he was always interested in feeding hungry people. He had a great sympathy or low-income people everywhere. CATES: You are noted for your " ; do-teaching" ; as opposed to " ; talk-teaching" ; ; did Russell share this philosophy, both in agricultural and non-agricultural matters? BROOKS: Oh yes, he never did like to talk theory, and that was one thing about when you got down to talk with him about money, appropriations, he wanted to know just how this worked out. He wanted you to put it on the line to where you could show some real returns and some productivity out of it. He was very practical in his approach ; he was hard-headed and very tough and he wanted you to prove your case. He didn' ; t want you to just come up there and say, we need $100 million dollars for something that was theoretical. He wanted to be certain that any federal monies that were appropriated would actually bring high returns to the people of this nation and that included farmers. CAFES: This is somewhat along the same line: Gold Kist is noted for its independence when it comes to federal help and control ; did Russell give you any encouragement in this area? BROOKS: Well, as a whole, yes. He felt that self-help was the ultimate answer to all of these situations. For example, one of our real problems in agriculture in the early days in the southeast was the failure to have high productivity. And so, one of the philosophies that we were trying to tell our farmers in this area--that the only way you' ; re really ever going to have a high scale of living is to produce it--you can' ; t dream it or hope it or even expect the government to put it in your pocket--that the way everybody has a high scale of living, you got to produce more per person ; otherwise, you can' ; t enjoy all these good things of life. Our weakness in this area was our productivity ; it was just terribly low, unbelievably low and that was one of our causes of poverty. So, our philosophy was that the quicker you as a farmer understand that and realize that the only way you can have a high scale of living and the only way you produce a high scale of living is high productivity per person, and then we can pull you out of this. Then, we set up the ways to help him do that and then we said, we' ; ll take these products and market them for you not only in this country but throughout the world in order to get you the highest dollar that can be obtained for the product. Senator Russell fully understood that philosophy and he was very much for it ; in other words, he didn' ; t want any government help if there' ; s any way to do it any other way, but he was sympathetic with the low-income and he wanted to do what he could to help move farmers along out of this extreme poverty on into these programs where they could do these jobs for themselves. CATES: Mr. Brooks, everyone knows about your personal efforts to help famine-threatened nations learn to feed themselves ; you made the statement: " ; Starvation anywhere is everyone' ; s greatest enemy." ; Did you discuss this with Senator Russell? BROOKS: Oh yes, many times and in many ways. I was intensely interested, for example, in the point-four program that was started during (Harry S.) Truman' ; s period. Dr. (Henry Garland) Bennett, who was president of Oklahoma A & ; M (Agricultural and Mechanical) College, was a very close personal friend of mine and he had a philosophy that we could take agricultural science as we developed it in this country, if we could transmit it to the peoples of the world effectively, we could do it with a nominal amount of money ; and yet, we could lick this problem of famine. Now, coming up in an agricultural situation in an agricultural institution, I had a number of students from all over the world that were students of mine when I was a professor and I also had boys who were classmates of mine from other countries. When we started trying to lick poverty here and low income, I began to work with some of them over the world. For example, on Formosa, we brought about the greatest revolution that' ; s ever taken place almost, agriculturally. The boy that' ; s been chairman of that was a classmate of mine at the university, a Chinese boy who was in charge of all research on the mainland but was run off the mainland with Chiang Kai-Shek. Then, he, in effect, took over the agricultural development on Formosa. It' ; s a fantastic story ; they have the highest productivity now on a twelve-months period of any place on earth, in a very poor area, by using scientific agriculture. Now, Senator Russell realized that we had to have this kind of development over the world. He was intensely interested in it. I coined a phrase in the early days, that my experience overseas, running over the world many times--that the strongest communism I found anywhere in the world was stomach communism. By that, I mean hunger. If a man is hungry and naked, it doesn' ; t take much to move him over to the communist side, because he doesn' ; t figure he has much to lose. Consequently, the communists always played that wherever they had hunger and nakedness and disaster, then they moved in with great power. Senator Russell understood this power play in the world, that you, from a humanitarian standpoint, you did not want to sit here and let anybody starve, and that if you could bring food and clothing and decent living to the people to the world, the communists were out, they were out of business, because that' ; s what they lived on, that' ; s what they tried to jump in on all the time--by promising things that they couldn' ; t do. Now, as a matter of fact, the communist agriculture has been horrible and they' ; ve been hanging by threads. They' ; ve come so close a few times that it looked like the communist world was going, because they were out of food. Of course, the western world has furnished them with a considerable amount of food, but even so, they had extreme plight. In 1962--I' ; m overseas a great deal of the time, as you know, and in 1962, we thought China was going, 1959, 1960 and 1961, the crops kept going down. That was during this " ; great leap forward" ; thing, where they tried to put all of the farmers in the communes and march them to the fields together and march them to the places to eat together. Farmers just don' ; t farm that way, and they didn' ; t produce anything. By the spring of 1962, they were out of food ; in fact, there was a great deal of feeling there--I was advisor to the president, agricultural advisor, and when I was over there in that area, there was a good deal of feeling among intelligence that I ought to insist the president put ships of grain all along China, because they felt definitely that China would go in 1962, but they made some changes which saved them. They began to let the farmers have back an acre of land for their own and they let them have some livestock or poultry, and weather conditions turned better, and they got a turn, at least temporarily. Except for that, if they' ; d had one more bad year in 1962 and they had not changed their system of agriculture, I' ; m confident there would be no communist China today ; it would be gone. So, the communist world has never done well in agriculture. They' ; ve done very poorly. I' ; ve had meetings with the Minister of Agriculture of Russia, in which we' ; ve had violent discussions, but when I got out of the building where he could talk freely, he would say to me, " ; I' ; ll have to agree with you." ; I was saying to him that he was going to have to go back to the capitalistic system of farming, where the farmer got some payment for what he produced ; otherwise, the farmers were not going to produce ; it was human nature, whether it was in Russia or the United States, and their system would not work in agriculture. So, they' ; ve never made the communist system work. Now, Senator Russell understood all of these things. I' ; ve talked with him many times about all of these problems in agriculture, not only at home but throughout the world. He was intensely interested in hunger throughout the world, realizing that if you do not cure this, you got a continuous trouble. You' ; ve got troubles coming on all the time somewhere. It' ; s a source of lots of your troubles of the world. CATES: Mr. Brooks, I want to ask you a little something about the program that you have to bring foreigners over here to study our ways ; but before I forget it, did you happen to talk, or did you happen to meet Madame Chiang Kai-Shek and talk to her about her friendship with Senator Russell? BROOKS: I talked with Senator Russell about it. I was invited to go and visit with Madame Chiang when I went to Formosa, working over there. She and the Generalissimo invited--my wife was with me--invited us to their home, but they were down at their summer home, down the island, which is called Moon, Sun Moon Lake. Beautiful place down there, but I had commitments moving on to other countries where I had set up with our agents, which I felt that I could not break. Consequently, I had to turn down the invitation, so I did not go and visit with them. They had asked me to come down for two or three days and visit with them, but I didn' ; t do it. Now, Senator Russell has told me about his experience (laughs) with Madame Chiang, and he said that he tried to be sort of, I guess, joking with Chiang Kai-Shek once, in which he said that the only person that ever really tempted him to matrimony was Madame Chiang, that she was such a delightful and such a dynamic person--and he met her young in life--that he felt that she was the, maybe, one person that he would like to marry. Well, he said that the Generalissimo didn' ; t take it too well. (laughs) So, he didn' ; t get quite the amusing part over that he intended to transmit, because I do not think that he was really serious about it. He was sort of teasing the Generalissimo that he really was enamored with Madame Chiang. CATES: Did this take place over in Formosa? BROOKS: Yes, I understand so. CATES: Did Russell-- BROOKS: The way Senator Russell told me about it, yes. CATES: --did he ever talk to you about his trips around the world, or his visits and compare them maybe with your own? BROOKS: Well, to some extent, but no long conversations on it. He would, of course, ask me sometimes my impressions and give me his impressions, but later on in life, of course, lots of his trips was connected with the military. Although I have a general interest in the military, I did not have an intense interest. CATES: Getting back to this other question that I had asked you: Would you comment about this program that you have something to do with, in bringing foreigners over here to study agricultural methods, and whether or not you ever discussed that with Russell? BROOKS: Well, I discussed it with him, but not in detail. Of course, we felt that with the technical know-how that we' ; ve developed in this country, which is far beyond that of any agriculture in the world, that one way to meet this hunger problem was to bring these boys over here and that' ; s what we' ; ve done--brought the boys over from--There' ; s hardly a week here, sometimes even a day, that we don' ; t have groups of people coming through this office here from somewhere in the world wanting to go and see your methods and your plants and how you operate and things of that kind. So, we have a delegation just constantly coming through this office. Of course, some of these boys we bring over here and keep them for a period of time--a year, two years, some of them several months--and train them. Of course, we have some operations overseas, and we bring them over here to train them for those. Only in a general way, I think, have I discussed them with Senator Russell, not in any great depth or detail, but he knew about some of our interests in it and some of our world operations. CATES: Mr. Brooks, I know you object to federal tampering with all our production, and how did Russell feel about this? BROOKS: Well, Senator Russell was realistic in that--we feel that it' ; s best for farmers to do these jobs for themselves, but at times, regardless of how you feel, to be practical you' ; ve got a problem of certain surpluses which have to be handled. Now, Senator Russell was practical, as we have tried to be--that we' ; re not going to take a philosophy that was as tough as Ezra Benson' ; s that you' ; re not even realistic of what the facts are. Senator Russell had that same kind of philosophy--that if we had an impossible situation, regardless of your emotions or feelings, you had to meet that situation as it was, not as you wanted it, as you' ; d like to have it, but you had to meet it. I would say that he was very realistic person. He was intensely interested in farmers getting on their own and doing their own job in handling agriculture. In the meantime, if crises came in, he was not averse to trying to help meet that crisis, as we have been, and we' ; ve said very frankly that sometimes you get into crises that have to be met. At times, we' ; ve been interested in laws, which will permit farmers themselves to do it, although we have been anxious at farmers themselves, but to give you one illustration--Senator Russell was heavily involved in this. As you know, we have a tremendous broiler industry here in North Georgia. Well, we thought that with this cotton acreage going down to three to give acres to these small farmers in North Georgia, for example, that if we got them a dollar a pound for cotton--which we couldn' ; t do-they' ; d still starve to death, because they weren' ; t producing anything. Their productivity was too low. So, we started getting our growers into broilers. We never asked the government for any help ; we didn' ; t get any subsidy ; we didn' ; t get anything. Suddenly, after we' ; d developed a big market in the common market, particularly in Germany, one day we were suddenly cut off with sixteen cents a pound tariff on broilers. Well, I immediately went to see Senator Russell about this and he was greatly concerned and, in fact, helped to set up a luncheon where we had some senators and congressmen in where I could explain what was happening to us. Then, they suggested that I plead my case over at the State department, and they would help me do that. So, I had an appointment with Secretary (George W.) Ball, who was Undersecretary, and went over the matter in detail with him, and he finally said to me--I didn' ; t know him intimately but I knew him quite well--that he' ; d done everything that he could do about it. I said to him, well, then that means that I' ; ve got to go to the president, and he said, well, he didn' ; t exactly say that, but in effect he said, that' ; s your only alternative, he couldn' ; t do anything more. So, I immediately asked for an appointment with the president, got Senator Russell and Senator (Herman Eugene) Talmadge and the others to help set up the appointment, and we had an hour and a half or two hours with the president, in which we finally got a commitment from him. Without going into great detail, he made every effort to try to straighten it out, but without success in the end. Finally, General (Charles) de Gaulle bought the deal in the final deal, but everybody got involved--Dean Rusk, who was sent to Germany by the president ; it was a rather amusing thing to hear his discussion of what, (laughs) how he came out in the deal. But we went all out to try to correct it. Senator Russell was always available and ready to help whenever we had a crisis. My plea, of course, to the president was that we had never asked the president or this government for anything. We took a group of low-income people, who were on the bottom of the economic ladder, and had developed them into the greatest scientific producers of broilers the world had ever known and producers at the lowest price that the world had ever known. All that we asked them to do was keep the doors open, and he had this Kennedy round of trade negotiating when we were going to open the doors, but here was a case of the doors were being closed. So, he was sympathetic, and without going into great detail, it became quite a deal (laughs) before we got through with it. CATES: I hope to interview Dean Rusk, so you' ; d suggest that I might ask about this trip? BROOKS: Yeah, you might ask him about his trip to Chancellor (Konrad) Adenauer on chickens. CATES: Okay, all right. BROOKS: I bet you it' ; ll be rather amusing, at least, experience. CATES: Okay, you had indicated before we started taping that you had a little knowledge about the Truman-(Douglas A.) MacArthur hearings as relates to Senator Russell. Would you mind--I believe you said you were on the War Mobilization Board during the Korean conflict? BROOKS: Yes. CATES: --so would you comment about this? BROOKS: Well, it was rather, of course, a very unusual experience and one that could have become a very violent one. President Truman thought that General Eisenhower (MacArthur) was violating instructions and taking things in his own hands, and of course, we knew that on the board, but--this all happened one night. During that day, we met in the Cabinet room of the White House--and the president' ; s office is at the end of the Cabinet room--and so we met all during the morning and the President met with us, but he did not come back after lunch. I had a personal matter, which I wanted to discuss with the president, about someone whom I thought he ought to appoint in agriculture. So, I asked his secretary if he had any free time that afternoon, I would like to go in and talk with the president about this appointment. He told me that he could get me in, because the president was really not busy, that he was in there walking the floor. I asked him what was wrong and he said he was going to fire MacArthur that night. Well, when he said that, that of course upset me and I said, well, if he' ; s going to do that, I don' ; t want to go in for several months. He proceeded to fire him that night, and without going into any secret situations that developed, there was some basis of why he felt that he could fire him. The people, of course, reacted very violently. Well, Senator Russell realized that this could be an explosion that would be almost impossible to contain. Consequently, he developed a hearing on the matter and gradually diffused the bomb that could have blown the country apart almost. It was almost that violent, because General MacArthur was a great idol in this country and the people, of course, generally did not know what was going on internally with reference to the war or what instructions he' ; d had and what the president felt he had violated. I think Senator Russell did a great service to this nation when he took this in hand ; in effect, it' ; s just like somebody taking a hold of an atomic bomb and holding it to keep it from exploding. I think that' ; s what he did in this case and brought it through in fine shape. CATES: Would you mind commenting as to how you feel that Russell felt about the two principals, President Truman and General MacArthur--personally, I mean? BROOKS: Frankly, after the hearing was over, I do not recall ever discussing that with him--after the hearing was over ; so, I am not sure what his final feelings were with reference to the information he obtained. CATES: You had said something to me about a government complex in Chattanooga (Tennessee), which was later leased and thereby saving a lot of money for the government. Would you comment about this? BROOKS: Well, of course, as manager here I' ; ve always looked for opportunities to find ways and means to raise the income level of farmers in this area ; and in doing this, I discovered a complex up in Chattanooga, Tennessee, that had been built during the war that was being carried by the government and by the army at tremendous cost. In looking it over, I decided that we might be able to lease these facilities and put some more facilities with them and manufacture fertilizer for farmers and effectuate some savings, but put a large amount of money in the pockets of the government, where they were just dissipating the money as it was--it was sitting there doing nothing. I discussed this with Senator Russell and went over and showed him how much money we could save the government by doing this and it would work out good for farmers. Well, that immediately interested him, because as I said before he was a very frugal fellow with everybody' ; s money, including the government' ; s, and if there was any way to get some money for the government, he was intensely interested in doing it. I then asked him if it would be possible for him to make an appointment with me for the general who had charge of all these plants. He asked me when I wanted to see the general--and this was about nine o' ; clock in the morning ; I told him I' ; d like to see him about 11:00 if I could. He just picked up the phone and immediately was through to the general and said to the general that he had a man who wanted to discuss a matter that would be profitable to the government, in his opinion, and that he would expect the general in his office at eleven o' ; clock. And of course, the general was there at 11:00. In other words, there was no further discussion about whether he could come or not come ; it was just a case of saying, now, this is when I want you there. It rather illustrated to me just how powerful a person Senator Russell was, but he didn' ; t move at all or show any interest until I could prove my case that I would put a lots of money in the government' ; s pocket. He was interested in that, as well as farmers getting along well. CATES: You also had related to me before we started taping an amusing incident that took place in your presence between Senator Russell and Senator George, and it was about the time that Herman Talmadge was going to run against Senator George. BROOKS: Well, that was rather unusual, but it showed the keen sense of humor that Senator Russell had. We were having breakfast together--Senator Russell, Senator George, and I--and we ordered eggs and ham for breakfast. Well, when they were served, just before Senator George started eating his ham, Senator Russell said, " ; Well now, Senator George, I don' ; t believe you better eat that ham ; that' ; s probably Talmadge ham and it' ; ll probably give you indigestion!" ; (laughs) So Senator George sort of laughed and it was sort of an amusing incident, but of course, it showed that there was a real keen sense of humor, because all of us knew that Senator George was very tense at that time (Begin side 4, cassette #179) about being defeated by Senator Talmadge if Senator Talmadge ran for the Senate, which he had already indicated he was going to do. CATES: Did Russell ever discuss this almost race between George and Talmadge with you? BROOKS: No. It developed into an almost race, of course, and I think Senator Talmadge, I mean Senator Russell was dedicated to Senator George in many ways, as one of his associates, but I think equally so that he' ; s been very dedicated to Senator Herman Talmadge. Their working relationship has just been, as far as I' ; ve been able to observe, just perfect. They' ; ve had a wonderful working relationship. Of course, the way that finally worked out, Senator George moved out of the race and probably relieved lots of people who had both as friends. It would have been a very difficult situation, and I' ; m sure would have been a very difficult one for Senator Russell, because of his long, close association with Senator George. But he' ; s had great respect for Senator Talmadge as far as I' ; ve been able to determine through the years, and he felt that Senator Talmadge has shown real growth in his capacity as a senator. CATES: Mr. Brooks, we might put under a time seal what we' ; re about to talk about now. You indicated that you had an opportunity to observe the association between Russell and Lyndon Johnson, and you mentioned one thing in particular, which I might just refresh your memory on, and that was the call that Johnson made to Russell after Johnson had received the nomination for the Democratic vice-presidential spot. This was towards the end of the campaign. We might start with that, and then you might just talk and say anything you want to about this relationship, and we can put a time seal on this until after the death of Johnson, if you like. BROOKS: Well, as you know, Senator Russell and Senator George and Johnson were very close when they senators. In fact, it' ; s common knowledge that Senator Russell made Senator Johnson the Majority Leader ; except for his support, he would never have been Majority Leader. Russell would have been the Majority Leader if he' ; d wanted it, but he did not want it for many reasons. He felt like his vocation was where he was and some of the things that he wanted to do, to hold on to from the viewpoint of Georgia and the South and he couldn' ; t do it as a Majority Leader. He, in effect, stepped out but then, in effect, nominated Senator Johnson. Well, they became very close personal friends. Of course, Senator Russell was out at Senator Johnson' ; s home a great deal, and I think the children felt like Senator Russell was sort of an uncle--very close relationship. From time to time, I was with Senator Russell when he was talking with a great many people, including several conversations with President Johnson, before he became president and afterwards, too. This particular occasion was after he had been nominated for vice-president ; and Senator Johnson called Senator Russell, and I happened to be with him, and he told him that they were in grave difficulty. Now, prior to that time, I was with him when Johnson had called him immediately after the nomination, and Senator Russell had said to him that he thought they would win the race because of Kennedy with his following from the liberal group and also members of the Catholic church, who probably would have a chance to vote for a Catholic for the first time, and with the following that Lyndon Johnson had--that it seemed to him that they ought to win the race. He, I think, had a feeling that he himself personally would not participate in it, and should not participate in it. But this conversation came later when I was with him and Senator Johnson called him and said he was, that they were in great difficulties, that he believed that he was going to lose Texas and that he needed Senator Russell to come and help him. Well, Senator Russell was rather hesitant and indicated he didn' ; t want to do it, on a purely political basis, at which time Senator Johnson said that, now I' ; m appealing to you personally, as a personal friend to do this. Senator Russell then said, well, on that basis I guess I' ; ll have to do it. So, it was apparently a personal thing that did it. Now, later on he told me that he went to Texas and made the talk and he said, " ; I' ; m not sure how much good I did in Texas ; I might have done some." ; They won Texas as I recall. But he said, " ; I' ; m confident that I did them great good in South Carolina, because of the fact that a great many of the people in South Carolina had been sitting on the fence, lots of the political leaders over there, until I made the speech in Texas ; and when I made the speech, then, that pitched them over on the side. Consequently, they then went to work and carried the state for Johnson and Kennedy." ; He felt like that he made at least some contribution, but I don' ; t think he intended really to get into that campaign. I think he intended to get out, to stay out of it at first, until President Johnson--who, of course, was not president at that time--put it on a personal basis. Then, he felt that he had to do it. CATES: To put this in the proper context of time, this was 1960, and it was right at the tail end of the campaign. I believe you said that Russell had been maybe in Spain or out of the country? BROOKS: Yes. As I recall, he' ; d been out of the country and came back just before the end of the campaign. CATES: Mr. Brooks, can you recall any other thing that you might want to relate about this association between Russell and Johnson? BROOKS: Well-- CATES: I know you have an appointment-- BROOKS: --I have. CATES: --in ten minutes and I do want to cover two other things with you-- BROOKS: Yeah. CATES: --and that is, did you visit with Russell in his home in Winder, and also you' ; d indicated that you knew a little something about the Cuban crisis as affected Russell and John F. Kennedy? BROOKS: Yes. CATES: So, we might just get back to the Johnson thing right now if you have any other comments. BROOKS: Well, of course, I talked with President Johnson several times about Senator Russell ; I mean we had such a close personal relationship that once or twice when I was with President Johnson, he was quite down in the mouth about things. One time, I remember a lunch that lasted quite a long while ; we got into a discussion of Senator Russell ; and one time late in the afternoon when I was at the White House to see him about a matter, he seemed to be so worn out that I deliberately took him over into talking about Senator Russell and some personal things that I thought would break some of the tension, deliberately. He, of course, had great dedication to Senator Russell because he--and immediately, for example, when President Kennedy was killed and he was sworn in as President, the first person he wanted to see and talk to, was Senator Russell. I' ; ve forgotten whether he told me that or whether Senator Russell told me that ; it was one or the other that told me that. Consequently, he felt the great need of Senator Russell and the great closeness. I think that was a very close relationship, but one that probably was a little more difficult later on while Lyndon Johnson was president. CATES: Could you relate, or would you relate what went on or what was said during these conversations that you just mentioned? Do you recall, or could you relate, that is, what Johnson said about Russell? BROOKS: Oh, he had great, great feelings for him ; I mean that he felt like he was the great person of the Senate and he appraised him like I did. I' ; m sure--although I do not recall specifically his saying to me that Russell should be president--I' ; m confident that he felt the same way, because everything else that was said would indicate that he looked up to Russell as the top man in the Senate. CATES: How did their differences affect their relationship? Would you comment on that--their political differences--? BROOKS: Well, I really-- CATES: --specifically in the domestic area? BROOKS: --yeah, Senator Russell talked with me about this at great length a few times when he wanted to talk personally about it, and he said to me that he thought President Johnson maybe felt great obligations to carry out some of President Kennedy' ; s proposals. But he said the difference is--he said, " ; Now, President Kennedy didn' ; t have the power over here to get his bills passed," ; but he said, " ; President Johnson does." ; He said, " ; We' ; re going to have some head-on collisions, because he feels he' ; s got to go one way and I' ; ve got to go another" ; ; and he said, " ; It' ; s too late in life for me to change and he feels a different responsibility as president, whereas I' ; m not president and I don' ; t feel the same responsibility. I must hold to that which I think is best for Georgia and is right." ; He said, " ; I want to say to you" ; --this is before some of the bills were passed-" ; that I think we' ; re going to lose them now, because Johnson has the power to do it and the ability to do it, and he' ; ll pass them, whereas Kennedy could have never passed them." ; And he said, " ; I recognize that and I have to understand it. I might not like it, but I have to understand it." ; So, he was very realistic of what happened, and as you know, President Johnson put through some very tough, difficult bills for Senator Russell to go along, and which he voted against. But he was realistic in all of his discussions with me ; he indicated that he fully understood that Johnson was going to pass the bills, that he had the power to do it and he was going to pass them, and although he didn' ; t like them, personally, that he had to recognize that Johnson maybe felt that responsibility as president. So, there was some breach there, but I didn' ; t feel that it was any impossible breach, although I did get some indication that it widened some later on, see. CATES: Do you think this had anything to do with Johnson not coming to his funeral? BROOKS: I don' ; t think so. I think that Johnson is not too healthy and I think the story that his doctor would not permit him to go--he had been in the hospital, as I recall, during that period, right up to that period--and I think that was a fair appraisal of the facts. CATES: Could you comment a little bit about your visits to Winder with Russell? BROOKS: Well, I, of course, through the years made a number of visits to Winder to visit him on different things. Of course, I' ; d go to Washington and I' ; d go over there. I don' ; t know of anything particularly different. I think in terms of conversations with him at home and (telephone rings) conversations with him in Washington that I did not differentiate really between them, because I had times of long conversations in both places with him. CATES: Mr. Brooks, I know you have someone waiting on you. I did want to ask you about the Cuban crisis situation, since you' ; d indicated that you had a little knowledge on that as far as Russell was concerned. BROOKS: Yes, Senator Russell told me that when they had the Cuban crisis that President Kennedy had asked him to come to the White House to discuss it. He said, " ; Frankly, I advised President Kennedy to move in and take the Russian missiles out of Cuba." ; He said, " ; The reason why I felt that was several reasons. In the first place, we had at long last caught the Russians red-handed in doing a very terrible thing that needed to be corrected." ; And he said, " ; I felt that world opinion would be with us, that we were trying to prevent a war, all-out war instead of starting one. The second is," ; he said, " ; that I felt that would solve our Cuban problems and that we had a good excuse then to straighten Cuba out and get it out of communist hands and we had the perfect reason for doing it where world opinion would be with us and where we could do it in the right spirit and the right way, and the world would be with us instead of Russia, because that was an offensive move to intimidate the United States with missiles at our back door." ; And he said, " ; I felt that we were just in perfect shape to clean that situation out, and so, I said so to President Kennedy. Now," ; he said, " ; the third thing was, at that time, we still had great superiority in weaponry and in the atomic field, and I did not feel that Russia would dare move with the superiority that we had, and which they knew about." ; He said, " ; Everything pointed to the fact that that was the appropriate time to move under the right kind of occasion." ; And so, he said, " ; My advice to President Kennedy, although he didn' ; t take it, was that we move that way." ; And he said, " ; Of course, only history will finally tell who was right as to which way we should have handled the problem." ; CATES: Why did Russell feel like Kennedy did not accept his advice? BROOKS: Well, I do not know that he went into any great explanation ; of course, I think it' ; s generally known now that President Kennedy finally decided to appeal directly to (Nikita S.) Khrushchev to take the missiles out--and which he did. It was, of course, an extremely delicate situation. I was talking with some of them and, as I recall, Secretary Rusk saying in some meeting or discussion we were having that somebody was going to bat an eye ; it was that tense and that close that nobody was even batting an eye. You can realize it was a very terrible and critical thing. Evidently, President Kennedy decided to make the approach to, direct personal approach to Khrushchev, before he moved. Maybe he felt like he would do that first and maybe what Senator Russell said second, see? Khrushchev, apparently, with his advisors--I presumes that the Kremlin probably put pressure on for him to do it and he took them out. The reports that I got there, and I' ; m sure they' ; re all documented now, was that Kennedy' ; s plea to Khrushchev was that in this way we could prevent any confrontation, this would relieve everybody of a confrontation ; but he also said, " ; They must come out," ; so I think he, in effect, was saying that we hope you will do it and take them out, but if you don' ; t do it, then his second move was to Senator Russell' ; s proposal. CATES: Mr. Brooks, one final question: I know you are a devout Christian ; you have these devotionals at your place of business here every Wednesday morning ; would you comment about Senator Russell' ; s spiritual life? BROOKS: Well, I do not have a great deal of knowledge in this field. I was never with him over the weekends, because I needed to be home. I was different from Senator Russell ; I had a wife and children and I needed to report back to my wife and children on weekends and I always tried to make it a point that (I) was never away from home on Sunday. So, I was never with him on Sunday. As I recall, one time many years ago he told me that when he was in Winder--I presume as governor, and maybe in the House--that he had a Sunday School class which he taught at that time--and you might check that one out--but as I recall, he told me one time when we were discussing some religious situations, he told me that when he was in Winder that he had this Sunday School class and he was the teacher of the Sunday School class. I' ; m not in position to give you a whole lot of information, because I was not with him on weekends. CATES: Mr. Brooks, thank you very much for this interview. You had indicated that you' ; re going through your papers and if you find anything, any letters from Russell, or any correspondence, you' ; ll make copies and send them over to the (Richard B. Russell) Foundation-- BROOKS: Yes. CATES: --and I thank you again for this interview. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL216RBROH-131.xml RBRL216RBROH-131.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL216RBROH/findingaid
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Atlanta, Georgia
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116 minutes
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with D.W. Brooks, March 25, 1971
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RBRL216RBROH-131
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D.W. Brooks
Hugh Cates
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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audio
oral histories
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sound
Subject
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Agriculture
Cold War
Foreign relations
Agriculture and Industry
Date
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1971-03-25
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United States
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
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Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project
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United States--Officials and employees
State governments--Officials and employees
Politics and Public Policy
Description
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The Richard B. Russell, Jr. Oral History Project consists of 175 oral history interviews relating to the personal and political life of Richard B. Russell. Interviewees include members of the Russell family, his staff and interns, other senators and public figures, and friends. The primary interviewer was Hugh Cates, a public relations manager at Southern Bell and secretary of the Russell Foundation (1977-1981). Most of the interviews were recorded between 1971 and 1979, but the majority during 1971 after Senator Russell's death. Other interviewers include: William Stueck, Karen Kelly, Barboura Raesly, Robert G. Stephens, Jr., Dwight L. Freshley, Tom Jackson, Angus Hepburn, and Russell Library staff. Interviews provide insight into Senator Russell's political career as State Representative, Governor, and U.S. Senator, his views on various topics such as civil rights and Vietnam, and his personality and family life.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=23&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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1971-2002
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Oral histories
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RBRL216RBROH
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Georgia
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Transcript, 64 pages
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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RBRL216RBROH-136
Title
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Interview with Chappelle Matthews, April 6, 1971
Date
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1971-04-06
Creator
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Chappelle Matthews
Description
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Interview with Chappelle Matthews, Representative, Georgia General Assembly. Topics include Agriculture; Depressions, 1929; Georgia politics and government; Lyndon B. Johnson; John F. Kennedy; New Deal, 1933-1939; Franklin D. Roosevelt; Richard B. Russell, Sr.; Eugene Talmadge; U.S. Senate election (1936).
Subject
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Agriculture
Coverage
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United States
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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oral histories
Type
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sound
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection
Subject
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Georgia--History
Georgia--Politics and government
Politics and Public Policy
Description
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The Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection consists of interviews with politically prominent Georgians conducted by Bob Short from 2006 to 2016. Interviewees include former governors, members of both the U.S. and Georgia Congresses, secretaries of state, lobbyists, journalists, lawyers, activists, and relatives of prominent politicians. Included with these oral histories are a few public programs recorded at Young Harris College in 2006-2007. Most interviews were recorded in the homes and offices of interviewees or in the Bob Short Oral History Studio at the University of Georgia. The conversations cover many topics at the intersection of politics and public life in modern Georgia, with a particular strength in gubernatorial contests, the Civil Rights movement, reapportionment, the development of Atlanta, the rise of the Republican party in Georgia, political journalism, and the interaction between religion and politics.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=9&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here. </a>
Creator
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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2006-2016
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL220ROGP
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL220ROGP-024/ohms
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5.3 Interview with Tommy Irvin, April 17, 2008 RBRL220ROGP-024 RBRL220ROGP Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection ROGP 024 Interview with Tommy Irvin finding aid Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Tommy Irvin Bob Short 1:|18(8)|36(12)|46(9)|61(8)|76(8)|99(3)|110(14)|120(1)|128(6)|149(3)|160(1)|176(13)|189(4)|199(7)|209(9)|229(14)|255(15)|283(1)|304(10)|324(9)|344(10)|360(14)|377(3)|385(10)|399(12)|416(9)|427(17)|439(17)|453(2)|465(6)|476(8)|494(6)|508(3)|523(10)|535(14)|545(14)|560(13)|572(4)|585(12)|598(3)|608(2)|626(2)|639(13)|649(2)|660(12)|675(8)|695(14)|709(10)|720(7)|735(17)|749(11)|764(5)|776(15)|791(13)|808(5)|823(10)|838(2)|857(7)|867(13)|885(2)|904(11)|923(4)|939(10)|952(13)|968(1)|979(2)|990(11)|1013(2) 0 http://youtu.be/5-Fn2djmMY8 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_di3b98ph& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; amp ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_24hghcg8" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 8 Introduction I'm Bob Short and this is Reflections on Georgia Politics. Bob Short introduces Tommy Irvin, Georgia's long-time agriculture commissioner. 17 85 Early life and family Mr. Commissioner, we are very interested now in you. Irvin recounts growing up in a sharecropper family, growing cotton for bartering, and working on the farm as child. He remembers his close relationship to his father and how he met his wife. agriculture ; cotton ; Lula, Georgia ; saw mill ; sharecropping 17 484 Becoming interested in public service I got interested in community affairs, and my first public service was the Board of Trustees at Hazel Grove Elementary School. Irvin discusses becoming interested in public service, serving on the county Board of Education, and being persuaded to run for state legislature. He remembers his introduction to Lester Maddox and being asked to be Maddox's campaign manager and Chief of Staff. Irvin talks about Maddox's elimination of the political patronage system in Georgia. Board of Education ; campaign manager ; Georgia legislature ; Lester Maddox ; patronage ; political involvement ; public service 17 1093 Becoming Commissioner of Agriculture Let me get back a minute to your becoming Commissioner of Agriculture. Irvin remembers the events of the 1968 Democratic National Convention, party switching, and being selected as Lester Maddox's Agriculture Commissioner. Irvin describes the role and development of agricultural industries in Georgia, and comments on his focus of strengthening the state agriculture industry as well as prioritizing food safety. 1968 Democratic National Convention ; agriculture ; agriculture commissioner ; food safety 17 1623 Connection between food, trade, and politics We're importing now a tremendous amount of food from foreign countries, China. Irvin talks about the volume of imported food that enters Georgia and the concerns for food inspection and safety. He describes his view regarding establishing agricultural trade with U.S. political adversary countries, and discusses the effects of NAFTA on agriculture in Georgia. agriculture ; food safety ; import and export ; NAFTA ; trade 17 2024 Issues affecting agriculture (energy dependence and immigration) Let's talk for a minute about ethanol. Irvin comments on the problems of ethanol as a fuel source, the rise of food and gas prices, and how it is all connected. He further discusses the prevalence of undocumented agricultural workers in Georgia and the need for policy that incorporates them into the legal labor force. corn production ; ethanol ; fuel ; immigration ; inflation ; work permit 17 2467 Working relationships with Georgia governors Well now, let's get on another subject here. Irvin talks about his work under various Georgia governors during his career as Commissioner of Agriculture, his efforts against the reduction in funding of the < ; i> ; Market Bulletin< ; /i> ; , and his belief in non-partisanship in the issue of agriculture in Georgia. Department of Agriculture ; governors ; Jimmy Carter ; The Market Bulletin ; working relationships 17 3104 Influence of partisanship in politics What is, speaking of Republicans, what is your take of the great rise and strength of the Republican Party in Georgia? Irvin comments on the rise of the Republic Party in Georgia, its effect on Democratic candidates for public office, and the rise of partisanship in politics. He also discusses his view of putting service over partisanship regarding public office. extended elections ; partisanship ; public opinion ; public service ; Republican Party 17 3336 Reflection on career legacy As you look back on your career, what do you think is your biggest accomplishment? Irvin reflects on the accomplishments of his public service career, including the creating the School Lunch Program in Georgia, and finding solutions to agricultural problems like pests and animal diseases.He also mentions some of his disappointments, and highlights integrity as the legacy of his public service career. boll weevil ; bovine tuberculosis ; hog cholera ; Richard Russell ; School Lunch Program 17 3714 Audience Q& ; A / Conclusion What is the state doing towards solving the hemlock destruction problem? Members from the audience ask questions regarding the destruction of hemlocks, the decline of honeybee populations, the 2008 Democratic National Primary, and representing constituents. Bill Clinton ; hemlock ; Hillary Clinton ; honeybees ; presidential election 17 oral history BOB SHORT: I’m Bob Short and this is “Reflections on Georgia Politics” sponsored by the Institute for Continuing Learning, Young Harris College, and the Russell Library at the University of Georgia. We are delighted today to have as our guest Tommy Irvin, Georgia’s long-time Agriculture Commissioner, who I might say probably knows more about Georgia politics than anybody you’ll ever meet. He has run for election and been elected ten consecutive times to an office that is statewide and attracts a lot of attention from potential candidates. So, Tommy, welcome to you. We’re delighted to have you. TOMMY IRVIN: Bob, it’s a pleasure to be with you. SHORT: Good. IRVIN: Our association goes back for many, many years. SHORT: It does. IRVIN: And I always valued the friendship we’ve had and the time that we worked together. I think it’s kind of one of the highlights of my early years in government. And I showed up on Capitol Hill and nobody knew who I was and I didn’t know anybody either, so – but we’ll talk a little bit about that later on... SHORT: Good. IRVIN: --as we move into the program about some of the things that we were involved in together. SHORT: Good. Mr. Commissioner, we’re very interested now in you. If you will, tell us a little bit about yourself. And you grew up on a real mountain farm. IRVIN: Well, I – my parents were what you call sharecroppers, you know. I think they used to call it “third and fourth.” Part of your production was to pay for the land that you cultivated. I was born in a little town called Lula, Georgia. It straddles both Hall and Banks County. I was born on the Hall County side, and then my family moved from there over into White County when I was still a young lad. And I still remember having to get up and hitch up the mules and plow the fields. And I used to tell folks that we grew a little cotton on the farm, but back then – you don’t grow any cotton in that part of the state now – and the red clay would get hard and you had to be very careful that you didn’t let the red clay uproot the young cotton as it emerged from the soil. And I’ll always remember having to plow the field. When you were getting ready to lay your corn by, you always do what we call “bust the middles”. I know when I was chosen as Commissioner of Agriculture, one of the editorial writers for the Atlanta Journal-Constitution wanted to know what I knew about farming. I said, “Well, you know, I guess I knew everything that you needed to know. I knew how to tie a handspring and I knew gee and I knew haw and knew what that meant. And I knew how to keep the cow--keep the horse from walking on the cotton when it was young and step on it. And I knew how to put on a set of Johnson wings.” He said, “What’s that?” I said, “Well, I thought that’s where I’d lose you!" ; (laughter) IRVIN: But that was part of the implements that you put on the plow stock so when you – when you plow, you’d bust out the furrow with that Johnson wings. One of the things I used to do is take the plows and the Johnson wings and sweeps and things of that nature down to the blacksmith shop to sharpen them and see him heating, heat them up and beat them out, you know. And you couldn’t afford to buy anything new back in those days because you didn’t have any money, and most everything you did was bartering. And I knew when we would sell our cotton in the fall of the year, we would be going to town, into Cornelia, and you’d get you a new pair of overalls and a shirt, one pair of shoes, and if you wore them out before the winter was over, you’d have to put some paper or pasteboard in them to keep them – your feet – from intruding through the worn out shoes of that type during that day. And it was quite an experience. I know when I first became Commissioner of Agriculture--making speeches down in the southern part of the state, it’s entirely different from what we had in the northern part of Georgia. I’d have somebody who says, “Commissioner.” He says, “How many bushels of corn did you get in those little bottom lands?” I said, “Bushels?” I said, “The people in north Georgia sold it by the gallon.” (laughter) IRVIN: That was a joke, of course. That was ethanol! SHORT: It’s also true. IRVIN: We called it moonshine back then. SHORT: Yeah. IRVIN: The same probably would be called ethanol now. And it was quite an experience. I became very interested in community affairs. I know after Bernice and I met riding the school bus out to the old Southeastern Fair and I was telling the driver how to get there. You didn’t have the expressways through Atlanta back in those days. And I’d been there before, and I kept noticing this young lady sitting back there with a young man in the back of the bus. And it stopped at about Buford, and he went out to get a soft drink and he--you know, he came back and I had his seat and he never did get it back. (laughter) IRVIN: I told her I guess we fell in love at the first sight. SHORT: At first sight, yeah. IRVIN: But, you know, it’s been a great union. We’ve been married more than 60 years now and this coming June ‘08 will be--June 1--will be 61 years. And this day and time, that’s quite a record. SHORT: Yes, it is. IRVIN: But my daddy was a sawmiller, and he got killed working at the sawmill. And I remember during World War II, I was not old enough to be drafted and in the summertime I would help up there at the sawmill. I’d tell them I knew the difference between the slabs and strips and the difference between lumber and waste. And it just gave me a lot of great training. My dad was very close to me ; he was my buddy. You know, most young people, they cling to their mother. My mother was a very delightful person and a great cook and a hard worker, and she was a Hogan. And a Hogan--her father, my grandfather, was a Congregational Holiness. I know he used to sit in the choir and never sang a note, but he clapped – stayed right in tune with the music. But my wife influenced me to go to church and I was saved at Antioch Baptist Church where I belong now. And all of our children came along and accepted the Lord and savior Jesus Christ as their personal savior at that church. They don’t all live in that community now so they belong to different churches, but some of them still do. And we have 14 grandchildren and two great-grandchildren, eight grandsons and six granddaughters. But I got interested in community affairs. My first public service was the Board of Trustees of Hazel Grove Elementary School where my sons, James and Johnny and David, all attended and LaVonda and Lisa all attended at elementary school. Later, I became a trustee of what was back then called North Habersham in Clarkesville, Georgia. And I was selected and elected by the grand jury to serve on the Board of Education, and that really got me involved in public service in a very visible way. I guess everything I ever did I tried to get in it where I could be and show some degree of hopefully persuasion. You call it leadership today, you know. SHORT: Yeah. IRVIN: And I served later as – in Lyons – and served as State President of the Georgia School Board Association. But my interest in Atlanta was because I felt that our local Representative was not representing us properly. And I joined with a carload of people going down to the Capitol and trying to persuade him to allow us to have a referendum on a piece of legislation dealing with how we change our local government. And, for some reason, he didn’t feel like he wanted to accommodate us, and I could tell that made a lot of people very upset at him. And he went ahead and passed the bill without a referendum. I hadn’t given any thought about running for the legislature at that time, but I was – we had cows on the farm. Would you like to take a break and ask some questions, Bob? SHORT: No, I’m fine. No, you – no, you’re doing well. IRVIN: I thought if you did... SHORT: No, sir. IRVIN: We kept cows on our farm. Before I’d go off to the lumber mill, I would milk the cows early in the morning. And I remember one morning I heard some people coming down behind the house toward the barn and I could hear them and I recognized at least part of the voices, and he said, “We' ; ve come to see if we could convince you to run for the state legislature.” And I said, “Well, I’m not sure I could run for the county line.” I’d never – I’d been on the school board and I’d been very active there, but I had not – it had not built a base broad enough to run in a countywide election. He came back the second morning with another group with him, the leader of the group, and came back the third morning. And at that one they got me to say I would look into it. And I took a day off from work and, you know, traveled around through the county. And I had done a little singing and in most of the country churches, at one time or another, my wife and I had sang in them. After I accepted the Lord, we got into music. And I’d go knock on these doors and they' ; d say, “I know you. You sang in our church!” So I suppose that helped me a lot in my first election. And we had a very – another very prominent businessman running against the incumbent and I got more votes than both of them as a newcomer. But that’s kind of how it started and I guess not too long after that’s when I – all in that period of time is when I met you. SHORT: Yeah. IRVIN: And we got involved in another very important endeavor. SHORT: When you were – you got four terms in the legislature. IRVIN: Four terms in the legislature and four terms on the school board. The school board terms were five years and the legislature, of course, was two years. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: And I was very happy to serve in the legislature. I had a local businessman, an attorney, had invited me to go into Atlanta and he said, “I want to introduce you to a man running for Governor.” I said, “Who is it?” He said, “Lester Maddox.” I said, “You know Lester Maddox?” He said, “Yes.” He said, “You know, I moved up here to Habersham County from Atlanta.” And he had supported him, I think, when he ran for Mayor of Atlanta. And he carried me down and we went into the old Henry Grady Hotel ; back in that day, nearly everything close to that was where handled on Capitol Square. And I went with him and we went into the hotel there, and his daughter and his sister was all I could see was running his – had his office open – and said, “Wait around.” They said, “He’ll be back in a little while.” And we sat around a while and, I don’t know, kind of killed time until he came back in. And he came through there and hugged Jack Gunter, who later was our judge, you know, in this circuit up here--the Mountain Circuit back when it was the Mountain Circuit. And he introduced me to Mr. Maddox, and we were sitting there talking and having lunch together and I suspect after about an hour of talking about everything we could think of on the agenda, he made the statement. He said, “I want you to manage my campaign.” And I said, “Well--” I said, “I can’t manage my own. How could I manage yours?” “Well, I want you to do that.” You know, an amazing thing about that, I did not give him a direct answer that day. He was anxious to get me that day to tell him whether I would help in his efforts to be Governor, but I put him off. I went around to see some of my prominent friends that had supported me for the legislature. By that time, I had more than one term, you know, already behind me. And they said, “Are you crazy? You want to get out and try to get that man elected Governor?” I had read a lot about him and I knew his image was not the best in the world. And, as you and I found out later, he was much different from what his image was. Great man. Very honest. But out of say 12 or 15 people I talked to, all of them but one called me back and said, “We reconsidered.” They said, “He might be Governor.” They said, “You ought to go help him.” And so I did and, as you know, we didn’t get elected. We didn’t get the most votes and ended up the legislature... SHORT: Right. IRVIN: ...electing him. And I did whatever I could to make that happen and it’s the – all this was before I became Commissioner of Agriculture. SHORT: Alright. There was a very historical thing that happened during that period when there was a – when Mr. Maddox – had not been elected but would be elected, and that was legislative independence. IRVIN: Well, that came out of that. That, I think--let me just kind of fill in the gaps. You know I met you then and you became a part of his administration before I did, if I remember correctly. SHORT: Yeah. IRVIN: And he fired a young man he’d hired to be his--I call it Chief of Staff or Executive Secretary, the man that ran his office. And he called me up and said, “You’ve got to – you’ve got to come and run my office.” He said, “You helped get me elected.” SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: “Now you’ve got to help me be a decent Governor.” And I resigned from the legislature and went down and I took over that office. In that you and I worked in unison there for, I guess, all the time I stayed as his Chief of Staff. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: You were a prominent member of the staff and you had one of the toughest jobs of all because you had to – you had to work on his image. SHORT: I did, yeah. Yeah. IRVIN: And I know you were his speech writer. I think I’m right on all this. SHORT: Yeah. IRVIN: If not, you can correct it. And you... SHORT: I wrote some speeches. IRVIN: And you would, along with others, help advise him. And if you could get him to calm down before he’d get excited, he made some very solid decisions and good decisions for his time. I know that one of the things that influenced me a lot--I know how he really wanted to make things happen, he did away with the patronage system. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: We had up until that time, if you wanted a job with the state, you had to get permission from the Governor. SHORT: Go see the Governor. IRVIN: And he did away with that. And he did away with some other practices that cost a lot of taxpayers’ money. He was a very, very, very strong conservative on how he spent your tax money. And we can’t – can’t get away from the fact that he was a segregationist but not a racist. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: He probably, with your help and my help and guiding him, appointed more blacks to boards and bureaus than every Governor prior to that time put together. SHORT: I think he was the first. IRVIN: Well, to some very important posts, he was the first. SHORT: Yeah. IRVIN: And he picked good, solid people and they made him – they made him become a very moderate Governor on social events. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: And he’s the only Governor to ever run for Lieutenant Governor and win. SHORT: That’s true, yeah. IRVIN: But... SHORT: Let me – let me get back a minute to your becoming Commissioner of Agriculture. Were you at the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago? IRVIN: Well, if you remember, you and I and, I don’t know, a couple of other prominent businesspeople, professional people there in the Atlanta area, went through the list of potential people. Back in those days, the Governor really picked the delegates. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: And we had, I guess, the best cross-section of delegates with blacks and whites and women that the state had ever had before, but they got challenged by Julian Bond. And the challenge took half of our delegates away from us--half of the votes--and a lot of the prominent people came back home. We had five of our other constitutional officials, including the Commissioner of Agriculture and the Commissioner of Insurance and the Commissioner... SHORT: The Public Service Commissioner. IRVIN: Public Service Commissioner. SHORT: State Treasurer. IRVIN: State Treasurer at that time, Jack Ray. And they all switched parties. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: And I know that we had a meeting up in the – or maybe I better not say the office building because I can’t remember exactly where it was downtown, but it’s where the party met for business meetings, and someone said, “Well, we’ll just turn it over to the challengers.” I said, “No.” I said, “We’ve got an obligation.” I said, “You’re the Governor. We can’t totally destroy the authority of the Governor, because we’ve got to have a strong Governor. You’ve got to have somebody that can lead, make things happen. And we’re going to put together some delegates that will do a good job.” And then when we came back home, we had to pick the electors. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: I didn’t even know you had to do that part. That’s some--a new experience for me. But we picked good, solid people, and everybody came out, I guess, a step ahead of the system. But Campbell got an appointment as Undersecretary of Agriculture with Richard Nixon. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: And the front page of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution: “Maddox says if Campbell goes to Washington, Irvin will be the new Ag Chief.” SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: Here they come to me and I said, “Well, the Governor and I never discovered that.” They said, “You mean he’s going to announce that he’s going to appoint you to something and you never discussed it?” I said, “We discovered everybody else, never discovered me.” I said I didn’t have any interest in anything else other than what I was doing. Well, as it turned out, you know, Campbell went to Washington and I went over as Ag Chief, and I remember the Atlanta Journal-Constitution in one of their editorials--I hope I remember this pretty well accurately as it was printed: “Irvin will keep the seat warm until the people of Georgia can choose them an Ag Chief.” SHORT: Well, you’ve kept the seat warm. IRVIN: And that’s nearly 40 years ago. SHORT: Forty years, that’s right! Yeah. An interesting thing about that was that Jimmy Bentley, who was Controller General, and Jack Ray and those party switchers all ran for office at the next election and they all were defeated. They ran as Republicans and they all lost. So I guess you could say the only one that really made out in that party switch was Phil Campbell, who got a position in Washington. But you got to be Agriculture Commissioner. Tremendous department. A lot of responsibility. IRVIN: Well, I--you know, I never dreamed we had such a broad responsibility. It was – the general public now doesn’t know the depth of the responsibility that office has. You know, a lot of people have encouraged me throughout the years to run for Governor. I’ve never ever seriously considered it because I never have had what’s called “a fire in the belly.” SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: That’s not too good of grammar, but that’s what they used to say. You had to have that if you want to be – if you wanted to run and get elected Governor. And I just enjoyed very much the challenges that come to the job that I’ve been able to hold for all these years, and I think over the years we’ve had great influence on a lot of policy nationwide. You know, agriculture is a great, great industry. We are the #1 producer of chicken. We’ve always been the #1 producer in peanuts. Back when we used to have a lot of tobacco, we were #3 in the production of tobacco. After I led--along with other leaders--the eradication of the boll weevil, we were #2 in cotton. And we have an emerging fresh fruits and vegetable industry that’s just humming. It’s got great opportunities to expand and I’m pushing very hard and it’s getting strong support from our office to see us grow a lot of those things that we used to ship in from other parts of the country and sometimes even from Central America and South America because we didn’t produce it in our own home state and in our own home communities. SHORT: Well, in addition to promotion, your department has a lot of responsibilities in food safety. IRVIN: Well, food safety, I made that our #1 mission. You know there’s been a lot in the media in the last couple or three years about contaminated food and recalls ; we’re getting more recalls now than ever in the history of the state. Every time there’s been a recall, we’re working hand-in-glove with the local communities. If it’s something the feds discovered, hand-in-glove with the feds. We go in with them and help them make the recall successful to make sure that contaminated food didn’t get in the hands of our consumers. And that will continue to be a great challenge in the future, because you have to put a lot of man hours in. The morning – the afternoon – we’re taping this program here, I got a call from our PR Department and we’ve got two recalls going on now. One of them is we had to go into the facilities and pull it off the shelf... SHORT: Hmm. IRVIN: ...And then use the media to notify people if you’ve got some at home, return it. Don’t take a chance. It might be harmful to you. SHORT: Do you do those inspections? Does the State of Georgia do the inspections? IRVIN: We do. We’re the – we’re the kind of the lifeblood of that program. We have 60-something what we call sanitarians or food safety inspectors, and I believe the last time I worked in that particular field, Food & ; Drug only had about six or seven for three or four Southern states, so we have to do the job. We’ve got the manpower to keep food out of the hands of our consumers, something that should never have been put in the marketplace to begin with. One of the things we’re going hope to be able to announce soon, we’re working now with some very prominent ag leaders to do more – for them to do more individual testing themselves. Our ability to discover now is unlimited. Technology has come a long, long ways, and if there’s something out there that’s contaminated, if you’ll test it, you’ll find it before it gets into general circulation. That’s what I want to see. And we don’t have the resources to do all of it ourselves, because it just takes – it takes a lot of man hours and it takes a lot of money. And that’s the taxpayers’ money. But if we get all this worked out, we’ll be announcing it probably before this will be fully edited, and maybe we can put a little sentence saying we got it done. SHORT: Yeah. We’re importing now a tremendous amount of food from foreign countries like China. Should we worry about that? IRVIN: Well, I--you know, I’m always asking the feds to do more, but I’m also asking the legislature to give us resources so we can do more. You cannot imagine the tons of food that comes into Atlanta by air, and that’s the busiest airport in the world. And every time one comes in from most any foreign country, it has containers of food aboard, and we expect to have within the next year at least one inspector stationed at the Atlanta Airport to check all that food as it comes in. I think that will put us ahead of any other country – of any other state – that I know of in the U.S. in doing this kind of inspection service. We need to do more at the ports, because a lot of it comes in by ship. And so there’s room to improve, but we check when it gets out into the general warehouses--if we don’t catch it before it gets off of the ships or boats or off of the planes. And we have a good, good law because if people find it is contaminated, we can do – we can stop it right in its tracks. Food & ; Drug has to go to court and get a court order to do that. So we’ve got a really better law than they have – than Food & ; Drug has. SHORT: Why are we importing so much food? IRVIN: Well, we’re – we’re, you know, we’re great consumers ourselves. We’re one of the biggest consumers – population-wise, one of the biggest consumers – in the world. And we want our consumers to have all these different choices, and you can’t possibly produce everything that they want, so why not have a program to bring it in and put some restrictions on them. I know when we started getting some contaminated food coming into Georgia from California. That’s a big, big Ag state. A lot of people don’t realize a lot of people live in California, but it’s the number one Ag state in the nation. And we urged them to do what I’ve just mentioned to you--to do a lot of testing before they send it here, because when they send it here, I’m going to test it ; and if there’s anything wrong with it, we’re going to turn it down and require them to destroy it. If they test it, they can save a lot of expense. But China is continuing to be a huge, huge marketer for our products. The Governor informed me a few days ago that he’s going to support my efforts for us to have an office – an agriculture office – in China, and we’re going to be moving forward with that shortly. And if we’re going to expect them to buy products from here, we’ve got to accept products from there. As you know, one of – one of the countries that I’ve been a national leader in is Cuba. Cuba wants to do business with us. They’re doing some. Our government’s a little bit antiquated. Our President does not want to allow us to have face-to-face trade with them, but I think we’ve got to. I remember I was the first Ag Chief in the nation to advocate doing business years ago with the old Soviet Union. And I know that during the earlier stages when I was advocating doing business with the Soviets before they were called Russians in St. Petersburg, I’d be in a civic club in most any town in Georgia and somebody was likely to get up and say, “You want to do business with the Commies!” I said, “No, I want to do business.” “How can you justify doing business with the Communists?” I said, “Well, I happen to believe that if we have food that they need and they want and it’s a market for us, they will not be sending the rocket ship over to pick it up.” SHORT: (laughter) Uh-huh. IRVIN: And I’d get a big – I’d get a big applause from the audience. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: And I think that trade has probably done more to help us have a good relationship with the Russian people now than anything else that was done, and I think agriculture and maybe some things I had a little part in might help bring that to being. And I think we have the same kind of relationship with Castro’s country. He’s – Fidel is out of the picture now and his brother is running the country, but I expect that we’re going to see things get more moderate to how they deal with their people, and I’m looking forward to some great times--great trade opportunities with the Cuban people in the future. SHORT: Speaking of trade, how has NAFTA affected agriculture in Georgia? IRVIN: Well, NAFTA’s been a disappointment to a lot of people. You know, if you’ve been following the debates, especially on the Presidential Democratic side, there’s been a lot said about NAFTA. If NAFTA had worked like it should have, it could be very helpful. But it’s turned into having so many negatives that I don’t know whether we’ll ever be able to make it successful or not. I have to admit I urged members of Congress to vote for it originally. If I was to urge them today, I’d urge them to vote against it, because they want to sell to us and they want to make it difficult for us to sell to them. And they’ve got tariffs on our products going into their country, and they want us to let their products come into here without any tariffs. And that’s not – that’s not fair trade. But we’re going to get out from under that. I know we were talking about doing business with Russia. I get into some of these settings and I say, “Well, if you want us to buy your underwear for me to wear, I want you to make it out of Georgia cotton.” SHORT: (laughter) IRVIN: And it would get a good laugh. But there’s a lot of truth to that because, you know, a lot of our jobs of that type has already left us and I’m not sure if some of them will ever be able to get them back. But if we can have trade, that can fill some of the gaps. SHORT: Let’s talk for a minute about ethanol. Ethanol is an agricultural product. How do you see that situation panning out with regard to our energy dependence? IRVIN: Well, let’s go back up a little bit. You remember when we used to have a product called gasohol? Absolutely the same product. Alcohol. It’s alcohol. And I had urged as we move into ethanol now to get us a feeder stock that was not competitive with what we eat. Corn is in so many different products ; it’s driven up the price to where now we’re getting scammed. Maybe I should say getting politically skinned. SHORT: Skinned. IRVIN: And if we could really get our research to do what I know they’re working at the University to try to achieve, where pine trees and grasses and other products could be used for feeder stock, I think you’d have a great, great future. But if we’re going to have to make it out of corn and it shoots up like it is recently at $6 a bushel, you can’t make ethanol out of $6-a-bushel corn, and you can’t afford to pay that for every piece of cornmeal or every cereal or the sugar that’s made from corn. It’s going to have a negative effect because it causes the price of food to go up – everything from milk, beef, pork, cereals, all the other products. And I haven’t talked to them recently, but I suspect Coca-Cola is having to pay probably double or triple what they used to have to pay for the sweetener for the soft drinks. And anything that affects it that heavily, it becomes negative--because it looks like it was a villain, when really the villain was for us pushing the product before we were ready to come up with a proper feeder stock that I’d advocated to be the product that we make the ethanol from. But, hopefully – hopefully we can have a discovery and be able to do that, and I know one plant that’s been announced in Georgia that says they’re going to have some new technology. I’m looking forward to seeing it. And if it works, maybe we can get it back on-stream. If we doesn’t, it will never – it will never advance like a lot of us would like to see. SHORT: Speaking of food prices, they have been creeping up over the past few years. Is that a temporary thing or... IRVIN: Well, I suspect that nothing’s ever temporary, but I think we’ve got to get it under control and I think the things we’ve talked about already are some of the things that made this happen. If we can get that resolved, I think we’ll see it moderate back down, maybe not to where it was, but it won’t be considered triple what it used to be. We have been very fortunate in the U.S. – in Georgia, as well as the rest of the U.S. – throughout the years of having very stable prices for the food that we eat. We get, I don’t want to use the word “cheap,” but in some terms what it would be for other countries, it has been very relatively cheap. And so we’re now up to where we’re having to pay about the same price as probably they’re having to pay. And when you’re having to pay $4 a gallon – I saw here as I drove into town $4-something a gallon for diesel fuel to power your trucks to haul these products – that goes right back into the cost. You have your tractors, your pumps that pump the water for irrigation to farms in the Southern part of our state, and it’s going to be – they’ve got to have these higher prices or they can’t pay that price for the energy that it takes to do the producing. Nitrogen’s advancing so fast that I hear people that are in that business tell me that they will not price it for delivery a week from now ; they want to price it the day they make the delivery, because it goes up every day. I heard on the news this morning that gas has been going up 1 or 2 or 3 cents a gallon overnight--and more than one day in a row! We’ve never had that happen before in the history of America. And all that – all those inflationary prices – are affecting everything that we do, including food that we produce and food that we eat. SHORT: Now speaking of immigration, what effect is the current discussion of immigration having on Georgia agriculture? IRVIN: Well, so far it hasn’t had a whole lot of effect. And we’ve got to have a sensible program. I know – I know there’s a strong feeling from the general public--they want the illegals out of here. If we have somebody that’s been working at the same place, same farm for the last eight or ten years and they’ve been stable and they buy the food and pay the same taxes we pay, I think we’ve got to find a way to make them legal. Not a citizen. Not citizenship, but a green card. I think that’s what they call it, isn’t it? SHORT: Yeah. IRVIN: And – but I also heard that they’re raiding some major chicken companies--and one of them has a presence here in Georgia--and causing the plant to be closed down. I know back four or five years ago when the Immigration people went out into the fields in south Georgia when people--when these Hispanics were harvesting the Vidalia onions and harvesting our beans and peas and squash and okra and tomatoes and our vegetable crops--those people armed and going in the fields--and they run. I guess if I was in a foreign country and I was working and I see somebody coming out with a bunch of armed people, I’d probably run too! But we’ve got to work on that one, and I think it will be worked out. I’ve felt all along this was a national issue, and Congress owes it to the American people to adopt a sensible program to deal with this. And once they do that, I think all of us as leaders need to get behind whatever that program is and help make it work. It will be teamwork and I’m willing to do my part. As I say, don’t make – don’t give illegals citizenship, but make it possible for them to get a work card and if they quit work, they’re immediately shipped back home. SHORT: Well now, let’s get on another subject here. You’re doing a great job with that department. It’s one of the leading departments in the country. But you also have had vast experience in dealing with important people in the State of Georgia, and I’d like to ask you about a few of them. Of course, you were very close to Governor Maddox. You were his Floor Leader and his Executive Secretary and you served as Agriculture Commissioner during his administration and for--what?--38 more years of other administrations, and I’d like to talk a little bit about that. Tell me – I think Marvin Griffin was the Governor when you came to the legislature. Right? IRVIN: That’s correct. SHORT: Governor Griffin. What did you think about Governor Griffin? IRVIN: Well, you know, Griffin was a – I didn’t vote for Griffin when he was elected, and when I got down to Capitol Hill, Cheney aggravated me something awful, and he would call people up in Habersham County saying that he needs my vote--to get them to call me and twist my arm to get me to vote for them. And they’d call me, but say, “You vote your own convictions.” And that’s what I did. But Marvin tried to enact some legislation that just wouldn’t go. I know one of the – one of the pieces of legislation that I was able to kill as a young legislator was one dealing with an issue about black or white. And this issue was that I think Georgia was planning to play one of the Pennsylvania colleges, either Penn State or Pittsburgh--you know, I don’t remember which one in the Sugar Bowl. SHORT: Pittsburgh. IRVIN: And they had a black on their team and he put – he put a bill in to prohibit any school in Georgia from having athletic competition with a person of another race-- who had a person of another race on their team. Well, you know that wouldn’t work. I led that fight and we killed that bill. I got called down to the Governor’s Office on that, but I thought I did the right thing. But he was really the last of the old segregation crowd. He came along at a time when I guess you needed to have that flavor to get elected. I know Carl Sanders was the first Governor that kind of broke ranks on that and tried to be – to have – a moderate influence on the racial issues. And I know he--during the campaign he called me out to the mansion a couple of times and I met with him and we were able to get some good pointers from him on how to advise Governor Maddox. And, as I said earlier on in this program, you and I, I think, had a lot of influence on getting him to take center stage and be moderate on social issues. But Carl did not have the success that Lester did on his appointments. Now Carl made some good appointments, but the racial issue was still in the air I guess then and some of his good appointments couldn’t get elected to the ballot box. Lester’s did. SHORT: Yeah. IRVIN: And that was kind of amazing I guess to all of us to see how things could happen. And then Ernest Vandiver came along, and I know that I think he tried to move it in that direction. And we’ve been steadily I think dealing with that issue about as well as any state in the nation. I think Georgia’s really been the Empire State of the South, and I think we’ve demonstrated very, very well in that field and I think we’ve lived up to all the good credentials that you could give us. SHORT: You worked very closely with Senator Talmadge when he was Chairman... IRVIN: Right. SHORT: ...of the Agriculture Committee. IRVIN: Well, he was – he was very important to me in my earlier days. He was very helpful. And I don’t mind telling you that when my good friend, Zell Miller, ran against him, I voted for Herman. And I suspect that that election was the downfall of Lester’s – of Herman’s administration, because I remember all the stuff about the coat with the hundred dollar bills in it. SHORT: Yeah. Right. IRVIN: I don’t know whether there was anything of it, but I know that was some of the talk in the political circles. But Talmadge was a good public servant and I’m glad to have been able to call him a good colleague to work with. SHORT: You’ve worked with a lot of Governors. IRVIN: Yeah. SHORT: You worked with President Carter when he was Governor. IRVIN: Well, Carter--Carter was – it’s amazing about Carter, he made one bad mistake early on--and he didn’t make it the second time--and that’s when he was trying to influence the curtailment of the Market Bulletin. SHORT: Yeah. Oh yes! I knew that was coming in this conversation. IRVIN: And he was going to do it budget-wise, and I felt so strong I ran a front page story right in the middle of the page urging people to contact their legislators to make sure that he could not cut the money out of the budget for the Market Bulletin. SHORT: Tell the folks what the Market Bulletin is. IRVIN: Well, it’s a publication that – it’s – you’d have to really get it to really understand how strong a constituency that it has of its own. Our readership – it’s on the Internet now, so we know the hits – we’ve always figured it had somewhere around anywhere from three quarters to a million readers a week. It goes out every other week now, so we’ll say every other week. And the people love it. And I don’t care, in any sizable congregation I get in, you’ll have some get up and say, “We really appreciate the Market Bulletin.” But it’s a touch of paper! I changed the name of it from Market Bulletin to Farmers and Consumers Market Bulletin because I wanted to give the consumer face. But if you have something you want to sell – needlework, patchwork, flowers, plants – it has an economic benefit to our state of several hundred million dollars a year. We haven’t had a survey done recently to see what it is now, but if you have something you want to – if you’ve got a piece of farm equipment or you want to buy a piece of farm equipment – the Market Bulletin will sell it for you or it’ll find it for you. And it’s a great publication and, unfortunately, budget folks cut it to where I can only send it out every other week back when the Republicans got in charge, but I don’t think they’ll mess with it anymore. I think they see the value of it now. SHORT: Well, I get it and I read it religiously. I’m not a farmer, but there are a lot of things in there that are of great interest to me. George Busbee. IRVIN: Well, Busbee and I were in the same class that came to the state legislature in 1957 and took office in ‘58. No, took office – 1956--took office in ‘57. I’ve got to get those dates straight. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: It was so long ago, you kind of forget the semantics of things. But Busbee was a good Governor to work with. I didn’t have any problems with any of them. That one thing with Carter was the only disagreement I had with him. I was able to help him on a lot of things after that. And I go to bat to help the Governor on everything. And the current Governor, I’ve told him – I told him as we started our second year, I said, “You and I are going to be retiring at the same time. I’d like to do everything I can to see that we both leave on a high and not on a low.” SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: And I think that has had some influence with him and recommending to go along with us in China. You know, the Governor’s a Governor and it’s a powerful position, and I think it’s – I think--but he can’t do it all by himself. He needs people like myself who are willing to help him. I’m on the Georgia Finance Investment Commission Board with him and that’s a very powerful committee, as you well know, and he’s been all right to work with. I don’t play the partisan as much as some of my Republican friends do. I tell folks I don’t know a thing in the world that the Georgia Department of Agriculture does that’s partisan. We serve people. And I appreciate every day when I’m having a staff meeting with my staff to keep in sight that if we do a good job of serving the public, they’ll give us credit for it. And that’s the best politics you can have is people saying you’re doing a job and doing it well. I don’t go anywhere in Georgia that I don’t run into people who come up to me and say, “I never met you before. I’m glad to meet you. I wanted to come up and tell you I appreciate the great job you’ve been doing for us.” That makes you – that, that makes you feel good. SHORT: What is – speaking of Republicans – what is your take on the great rise in strength of the Republican Party in Georgia? IRVIN: Well, I think – I think the biggest mistake Democrats have made is to let their bench get thin. You know what that is? That’s... SHORT: I do know. IRVIN: ...good, quality people that want to run for public office. You know, apparently I was a good young man when I ran and I was willing to work hard and willing to be committed and people voted for me. But if you don’t keep recruiting people into the system, you can get where you don’t have enough good, high quality people seeking office to prevail. I don’t have no earthly idea whether a Democrat or a Republican will succeed me or not, but I would urge either one of them to not run basically on a party label but run on a service label. Say, “If you elect me, I’ll do you a good job, and I won’t let partisan politics get in the way.” I think a lot of people are getting sick and tired of how partisan things have gotten. And I don’t believe I’m totally misreading it either. SHORT: Yeah, I think you’re right. A lot of partisanship. Well, I think the general public is sort of angry with politics and government anyway. Take this--this is an election year. It’s been going on now for how long? Two years? Fifteen months I believe I heard last night ; 15 months we’ve put up with the Presidential race this year. And I picked up the paper this morning and found out that people have already announced for Governor of Georgia in the next election, which is what, three or four years away? Three years away? IRVIN: Well, I haven’t read the paper. SHORT: So you’ve got--you know, people are tiring of politics, and I think that the leaders in each party ought to understand that and attempt to satisfy the public. And that’s going to take a lot of leadership to do. IRVIN: As I mentioned earlier on, I think there’s been a time in my past career as a public servant that had I chosen to run for Governor, I’d have been a good candidate. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: And I think there may have been a time or two that I could’ve probably run and won. But see I never did want it, as I mentioned, and I’m going to urge whoever runs for my office – and there’ll probably be several to run: Don’t get embedded in partisan politics. Tell the people what you’re going to do with the Department. You’re going to inherit a good Department, because I’m going to make sure of that. And I’d like to see you take it and build on what you take charge of. Always new eyes can see things to improve. It won’t make me jealous ; I want to see them do better. And if they’ll do that and they get elected, if they choose they can be elected a second or third time. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: I know I was asked the question on numerous occasions: What do I contribute to the fact that I’ve been elected again and again and again, as you mentioned early on, ten different times statewide? That’s a big record for Georgia and that’s a record for the nation. And I think the fact is I’ve been focused on my job. Put that first. And if you do your job, that’ll be the best PR you can have on election day. SHORT: As you look back on your career, what do you think is your biggest accomplishment? IRVIN: Well, I didn’t mention it awhile ago, I think one of the greatest things I was able to accomplish was not in agriculture--it was in education. I was author of the constitutional amendment that – Dick Russell was the author of the School Lunch Program at the federal level and I was the author of the constitutional amendment that funded and set the program up in Georgia at the state level. And that had to be voted on by two-thirds of the House and Senate--had to be voted on statewide, and it passed. That was probably the thing that I still point to as one of my #1 greatest achievements. The next one that probably got more attention was my efforts to eradicate the boll weevil. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: You know, boll weevils run the cotton out of a lot of places in Georgia, including the Northern part of our state. And it’s made cotton come back like gangbusters, and so I’m very proud of that. I would suspect that one of the things early on that I was able to develop a program that became the national program was getting rid of hog cholera. Not too many people who are going to see this video can ever remember what one of the saddest signs you used to see, the TV cameras humming when you see people killing hundreds of hogs and burying them because they had hogs. It was a sad sight. And we got rid of that. And we got rid of cuberculosis in dairy herds. We got rid of cuberculosis – that’s called Bang’s disease – in cattle herds. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: And we had a string of great successes that I think I can reminisce in my old age and say, “Well, I had a part in that.” SHORT: What was your biggest disappointment? IRVIN: Very few, and I’d say most of my disappointments were small. One was a disappointment that I lost part of the funding for the Market Bulletin, as I mentioned early on. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: But I haven’t had any strong disappointments. I may have had some things that I could’ve done better, but I did the best I could. And I think I did – I always look at it like this. If you really focus on what you’re doing and really get into it and get your reins in your hands, you can always do whatever it is as good as anyone else. And that’s all that can ever be expected of anyone. And if you loosen up on the reins, that’s when things can go awry and things can happen that you wouldn’t want to see happen. I tried to make sure I didn’t have much of that happen in my many years. I know that Howard Overby from Gainesville--when I was trying to get my constitutional amendment approved to establish the School Lunch Program--he came up and tapped me on the shoulder and whispered in my ear and said, “You’re not doing too well with your questions.” He said, “Ask that your bill be recommitted to committee.” He had so much confidence, I didn’t even question him. I said, “Mr. Speaker, let me move that this bill be recommitted to committee.” Then he called me off to the side and said, “You weren’t doing well.” He said, “You needed to get busy and study your own proposal and be where you can answer any questions that they will throw at you, because, if you don’t, you can’t ever get a constitutional amendment passed, because, you know, it takes two-thirds of the votes.” And I did a good enough job when it came back up, I don’t think I had one or two votes cast against it. That was a – that was somebody telling me something that I’d done wrong and told me how to correct it. SHORT: Yes. IRVIN: You' ; ve got to have – you’ve got to have – friends to be on the lookout for you. I think the greatest thing you can have as a public official is to have some people in every community that keeps you informed about what’s going on in that community. It’s a big old state and, you know, I don’t get to Young Harris that often. I don’t live that far away, but I need to know what’s going on over here and I’m glad we’ve got you around to keep me informed. SHORT: Thank you. How would you like to be remembered? IRVIN: You know, you can say a lot of things. I think the thing that would be best to be remembered is that you did a good job and there’d never been any hint in any way of anything improper. You know, people this day and time always got their hand in somebody else’s pocket and are dipping in the till. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: And I think the fact that I’ve been able to be in public office as long as I have and there' ; s never been a hint of anything improper, it’s been a challenge. Because, you know, you don’t always have to do it yourself to get accused of it. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: If you allow it to happen under your administration, we’ve had some people we’ve had to prosecute and that’s going to happen regardless. But we will not allow anybody to be in our administration and stay there after doing something that’s improper, and I would think that to finish your long tenure – and, as we mentioned, if I stay to the end of this term it’ll be--counting the school board--altogether it’ll be 55 years – and to have that with steady progress, great accomplishments, and do it without any hint of anything improper is as good as you could ask for. SHORT: Well, you’ve certainly done that. IRVIN: Well, thank you. SHORT: Questions? MALE AUDIENCE: What’s the state doing in regards to the--our hemlock destruction? Anything? SHORT: Let me – let me rephrase it. What is the state doing toward solving the hemlock destruction problem? IRVIN: The Georgia Forestry Commission is in charge of that and I’m very familiar with how devastating it can be, but we don’t have any real authority in that field. One time in the past--and this was during the Carter administration--there was a proposal to transfer that agency to the Department of Agriculture, but it never did happen. And I didn’t want to get claimed to being out trying to grab around and build an empire so I didn’t fight to get it, but it could’ve probably been adequately served in our field, because I get asked that question quite often. MALE AUDIENCE: Okay. IRVIN: And another thing, a lot of people think we have some great influence over the county agents, and they’re a product of the University of Georgia College of Agriculture. But I’d like to see it given some attention, and I may get an opportunity to tell their Commissioner that that question was asked of me here today. MALE AUDIENCE: I keep seeing things and hearing things and reading stories about the collapse of the honeybee hives. IRVIN: Yeah, that’s been a – that’s been a real mystery to everybody in the field. You know, I’m not sure if the scientists have found out yet what is causing that. We’re involved in that, because we--you know, we have to inspect honeybees. But every disease we’ve had up to now we’ve been able to eventually get it pretty well under control. But right now my staff tells me now that they don’t know what’s causing it. And the Dean of the College of Agriculture tells me the same thing, and I’m not sure we have a solution to that yet. But it’s absolutely necessary that we have our bees to survive, because you cannot have all these things--all these we’ve been talking about could not be grown if you didn’t have bees to do the pollination. That’s another thing. A lot of people don’t realize how important pollination is, but if you don’t have pollination you don’t have production. SHORT: No more questions? MALE AUDIENCE: Is there any chance you will run for another term? IRVIN: Well, let’s say it’s my intention to retire. The old saying is: " ; Don’t ever say never, because you might change your mind.” But I’d have to have a drastic change of mind before I would ever even think about considering running again. I say that because I think we’ll have some qualified people that will run. If some of the people I’ve heard mentioned will give it serious consideration and run, there are some people that I could support. And that’s all I want. You know, I will be in my 80s, and it’s time to retire. And I can give you a little sidebar. I’ve done had the analyst do it. My take-home pay will go up substantially from my pension than it does from my salary. (laughter) MALE AUDIENCE: What thoughts do you have on the current Democratic Presidential primary? IRVIN: Well, you know, I was a friend of Bill Clinton’s. He’d call me occasionally. Some people say they didn’t think Presidents ever called anybody, but he’d call me occasionally. And he – I remember one time at the Governor’s mansion when he was President, he came down the line and I gave a little whisper in his ear. And I had a little thing I’ll do sometimes--I’d get about two or three bars in a memorandum and put it in an envelope and I’d see him and I’d say, “Stick this in your pocket for when you have time to read it.” I found out he' ; d read it and responded to it, and so I had a dialogue with him. And he called me recently and asked me to meet him in Atlanta, and wanted me to go down to Mercer and introduce him at Mercer College. And I accepted that invitation. So if my position, which I understand is pretty solid, is to be a delegate, I will vote for Hillary. SHORT: That begs this question. The Democratic party has, of course, the super delegates which can and probably will decide the outcome of this election. Do you think those super delegates should have the power to override their constituency? IRVIN: Well, I don’t think you’re going to see much of that in Georgia. From what I looked at, the people have already declared it’s going to be pretty well along the lines that’s voted. I know my hometown went 2:1 for Hillary. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: Where I live. SHORT: Right. IRVIN: So I can say I voted with my constituency where I live. SHORT: Right. Well, that’s an interesting aspect. IRVIN: And, you know, the 9th District – excuse me, the 10th District, which I live in, is really a Republican district. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: But I carried it solid in my last election. That tells me that they will vote for the person. I can’t get a real good feeling for it. I think the Republicans are not going to give up the Presidency without a big, heavy fight. It’s not going to be easy for anyone to take that job. But I think they’ve got a weak candidate ; I think they could’ve done better. But I didn’t have a part in choosing that, so I should keep my mouth shut. SHORT: Other questions? Well, thank you very much, Commissioner Irvin. It’s been a great pleasure to have you. I want to thank you on behalf of the ICL, Young Harris College and the Russell Library at the University of Georgia. IRVIN: Thank you, Bob. It’s been a great pleasure to have known you throughout the years and to have the opportunity to work with you so closely through the real formative years of me getting into leadership positions. SHORT: Uh-huh. IRVIN: I will always value that friendship. SHORT: Well, thank you. [END OF RECORDING] Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL220ROGP-024.xml RBRL220ROGP-024.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL220ROGP/findingaid http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL220ROGP-024/findingaid
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Interview with Tommy Irvin, April 17, 2008
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RBRL220ROGP-024
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Tommy Irvin
Bob Short
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video
oral histories
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State governments--Officials and employees
Agriculture
Political campaigns
Undocumented workers
Agriculture and Industry
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Tommy Irvin discusses his long career as Georgia Commissioner of Agriculture, a position he held from 1969 to 2011. Leading up to his service with the Department of Agriculture, Irvin served on the Habersham County School Board, directed the Georgia School Boards Association, served as a Representative in the Georgia House, and managed Lester Maddox's 1966 campaign for governor.
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2008-04-17
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
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Georgia
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moving image
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Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection
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Georgia--History
Georgia--Politics and government
Politics and Public Policy
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The Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection consists of interviews with politically prominent Georgians conducted by Bob Short from 2006 to 2016. Interviewees include former governors, members of both the U.S. and Georgia Congresses, secretaries of state, lobbyists, journalists, lawyers, activists, and relatives of prominent politicians. Included with these oral histories are a few public programs recorded at Young Harris College in 2006-2007. Most interviews were recorded in the homes and offices of interviewees or in the Bob Short Oral History Studio at the University of Georgia. The conversations cover many topics at the intersection of politics and public life in modern Georgia, with a particular strength in gubernatorial contests, the Civil Rights movement, reapportionment, the development of Atlanta, the rise of the Republican party in Georgia, political journalism, and the interaction between religion and politics.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=9&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here. </a>
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
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2006-2016
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Oral histories
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RBRL220ROGP
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Georgia
Oral History
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL220ROGP-025/ohms
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5.3 Interview with Terry Coleman, March 24, 2008 RBRL220ROGP-025 RBRL220ROGP Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection ROGP 025 Interview with Terry Coleman finding aid Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Terry Coleman Bob Short 1:|9(10)|22(10)|39(17)|49(1)|57(7)|67(4)|83(8)|92(12)|104(1)|120(1)|131(5)|152(4)|160(9)|169(13)|187(1)|196(1)|206(6)|219(9)|235(2)|248(14)|258(11)|268(2)|286(3)|296(11)|305(10)|315(9)|330(8)|341(4)|357(8)|371(6)|388(12)|405(10)|417(15)|446(1)|457(10)|475(5)|483(9)|491(7)|508(4)|533(10)|544(16)|555(6)|565(3)|577(14)|586(10)|599(18)|615(9)|622(4)|635(1)|643(11)|657(6)|667(4)|677(2)|687(6)|698(2)|710(2)|731(3)|739(6)|754(14)|765(11)|778(9)|792(1)|801(7)|817(4)|826(9)|839(8)|850(8)|863(5)|877(13)|888(7)|896(17)|907(2)|914(8)|922(17)|933(11)|943(5)|951(10)|960(3)|974(10)|983(8)|990(8)|998(10)|1005(9)|1014(9)|1031(8)|1040(11)|1050(10)|1056(16)|1066(2)|1074(8)|1086(14)|1099(1)|1129(4)|1139(13)|1154(1)|1163(15)|1173(10)|1182(10)|1192(14)|1202(4)|1214(12)|1223(5)|1231(9)|1241(8) 0 http://youtu.be/qgfjznA8-h4 Kaltura video < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_7pxz3i5p& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; amp ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; amp ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; amp ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; amp ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; amp ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; amp ; & ; wid=1_26vpu19z" ; width=" ; 400" ; height=" ; 285" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 7 Introduction I'm Bob Short and this is Reflections on Georgia Politics. Bob Short introduces Terry Coleman. 17 137 Working with Jimmy Carter Well, two years later--1972--you ran for the state House of Representatives. Coleman talks about his and his brothers' work for Jimmy Carter, Carter's governmental reorganization during his term as governor, and the relationship between Jimmy Carter and Lester Maddox. governor ; Jimmy Carter ; Lester Maddox ; political ties ; reorganization 17 631 George Busbee & ; Rewriting the Georgia Constitution And his successor, who served with you in the House of Representatives, George Busbee, came along. Coleman talks about Governor Busbee's term in office and the changes he implemented, including expanding foreign trade and rewriting the state Constitution, and passing a bill to allow for governor self-succession. Coleman reflects on the consequence that these changes had on the political administration. executive power ; George Busbee ; Georgia Constitution ; gubernatorial power ; trade expansion 17 973 Reapportionment Speaking of congressmen, we in this state, have had many battles over reapportionment. Coleman talks about the effect of increasing partisanship on reapportionment procedure. partisanship ; reapportionment 17 1141 Busbee, Harris, and Murphy George Busbee left office and he was very interested in his successor. Coleman talks about his working relationship with Joe Frank Harris in the House Appropriations Committee. He also describes Busbee's support of Harris as his successor to the governor's seat, and describes the personalities of George Busbee and Tom Murphy. George Busbee ; Georgia House of Representatives ; governorship succession ; Joe Frank Harris ; Tom Murphy 17 1809 Zell Miller Speaking of Zell Miller, he was elected in 1990 on a platform that was very controversial--the state lottery. Coleman talks about Zell Miller and his legacy as governor in the areas of education and social welfare. He also talks about Zell Miller's controversial appointment to the U.S. Senate that crossed party lines and education ; Georgia Mountain Protection Act ; governor ; HOPE Scholarship Program ; party lines ; social programs ; Zell Miller 17 2393 Party registration / Tom Murphy's mentorship Most states have party registration. Coleman discusses his views on party identification and how it relates to partisanship. He talks about his relationship with Speaker Tom Murphy, how he came to be close with him, and time he opposed Murphy on the floor of the House. party registration ; political identification ; Tom Murphy ; working relationship 17 2802 Green Door Committee Well, would you take long enough to explain to us the Appropriations process in the Georgia General Assembly and take us behind the famous Green Door. Coleman talks about the increased budgetary power of the legislature that began after Lester Maddox's term as governor. He describes the establishment of the Green Door Committee which was acted as the early budgetary office in the House. Coleman recounts the exclusivity of the Green Door Committee and how he opened it up to other legislators when he became Chairman of the Appropriations Committee. Appropriations Committee ; budget ; George T. Smith ; Green Door Committee ; Tom Murphy 17 3269 Green Door Committee When I got to be chairman, I knew we had to endear some people. 17 3269 Becoming Chairman of Appropriations Committee When I got to be chairman, I knew we had to endear some people. Coleman talks about the process of formalizing the dispensation of county government funds. He talks about the inclusion of Republican legislators on the budget committee, and about negotiating to have more power on the House Floor. Coleman reflects on the separation of powers between the government branches and relates it to his role as legislator. budget committee ; Republicans ; separation of powers 17 4043 Being nominated for Speaker of the House Let's talk for a minute about your becoming Speaker. Coleman talks about campaigning for nomination to be Speaker of the House against Tom Murphy and Larry Walker. He remembers the opposition that Larry Walker raised against him in the form of a third-party race for Speaker. caucus ; Larry Walker ; speaker nomination ; Tom Murphy 17 4729 Rise of the Republican Party in Georgia And two years later, the Republicans became the majority. Coleman talks about the shift to a Republican majority in Georgia and discusses the gay marriage amendment, a growing liberal face of the Democratic Party, and reapportionment as causal factors in the party switch. conservative ; gay marriage ; liberalism ; New Republicanism ; party shift ; reapportionment ; wedge issue 17 5056 Changing the Georgia state flag Another big issue while you were Speaker, was Governor Purdue's changing the Georgia flag. Coleman talks about the debate that surrounded changing Georgia's flag in 2003. He remembers advising Governor Purdue to wait to bring up the flag referendum, and making the deciding vote in the House on changing the flag. Georgia flag ; political tradition ; referendum ; Sonny Purdue 17 5536 Working in Georgia agriculture post-Speakership A new career for you now. Coleman describes how he became involved in the Georgia Department of Agriculture after stepping down from post of Speaker. He talks about the Department's initiatives such as adopting new dairy farming techniques and promoting a corn substitute, Pearl Millet. Coleman also reflects on the difficulties of monitoring food contamination and imported food. corn ; dairy farming ; family owned business ; food contamination ; Georgia Department of Agriculture ; imports ; Pearl Millet 17 6191 Reflection on serving in General Assembly And now Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask you this question. Coleman briefly reflects on his favorite memory of his time in service and how he hopes to be remembered. 17 oral history BOB SHORT: I' ; m Bob Short and this is Reflections on Georgia Politics, sponsored by the Institute for Continuing Learning, Young Harris College, and the Richard Russell Library at the University of Georgia. Our guest today is Terry Coleman, longtime Georgia legislator, former speaker of the House, and now Deputy Commissioner of Agriculture for the state of Georgia. Terry, I will never forget the first time I met you. It was 1966. I flew down to Eastman, your home town, to make a speech for Jimmy Carter, who was running for Governor that year, as you will remember. And you met me at the airport and took me to the Dodge County football field, where they were having a political rally. So, we' ; re glad to have you on our program today, and we' ; re very anxious for you to tell us a little bit about Terry Coleman and your career in Georgia politics. TERRY COLEMAN: Well, I' ; m looking forward to it Bob, especially with an old friend. A really good old friend. Not old, but really good friend. I remember, Dan Blan, who had a son-in-law in Rome, Georgia, and his name escapes me right now. Dan Blan was a cotton buyer. I delivered groceries to his house as a boy. I had a lot of those older guys who kind of helped steer me and advise me and tell me stories and help me as I was growing up, and Dan was one of them. And he asked me if I would get involved with Jimmy Carter at the time, and I believe you might have been my first official contact with Carter before he and I ever got together. And I guess I could credit you and Dan with one of the most successful, long-lasting political relationships in my life. So, thank you. SHORT: Good. Well, two years later, in 1972, you ran for the state House of Representatives. Do you recall that election? COLEMAN: Certainly. Let me tell you this, before that, you know, Carter lost in ' ; 66. SHORT: Right. COLEMAN: By, what, about eight or ten thousand? SHORT: A small percentage. COLEMAN: Didn' ; t make the runoff. Well, fortunately, we stayed in touch with him. He came to Eastman and I had just, in ' ; 69, opened a grocery store. My daddy had died. My uncle had died. And they' ; d been in the grocery business since before I was born. And when they both died and I wound up with the store, I built a small supermarket. We had what you call a pancake breakfast. And Carter came over on two different times after that. And we got to be very close. I was with him in Waycross at a speaking engagement one night. It might have been in ' ; 70. And I said, " ; Gosh, it' ; s mighty late to go back home." ; Well, I followed him outside of Waycross, where the roads split. He was headed back home and dadgum near ran out in front of a train, because he was so tired. And the next morning I called him and I said, " ; Mr. President." ; I mean, " ; Mr. Governor." ; No, not Governor at the time. Sen. Carter. I said, " ; Senator, you need somebody to drive for you." ; He was trying to do that by himself and go to all the Alliance clubs throughout the state and use that as a spring board to get out and see people. And my third brother, Randy Coleman at the time, had graduated high school and was working with me at the grocery store, and just wasn' ; t happy working 7:30 to 6 at night. And he wanted to go do things. And I called Sen. Carter at the time, and said, " ; Do you know my brother, Randy? He' ; s a smart guy. He' ; s a hard worker. He wants to do something." ; And at that time we didn' ; t have campaign disclosure, campaign recording, so I said, " ; You know, if it' ; ll help, Randy would really like to come and work for you and drive for you." ; And I said, " ; I' ; ll kind of help pay his salary, if your interested." ; He said, " ; Well, I' ; m certainly interested." ; I don' ; t remember exactly what he said. " ; Send him over" ; or " ; bring him over and let me meet him." ; We did that. Randy went to work for him and started driving. He and President Carter now, got to be so close. And he got close to Billy and Miss Lillian, that Miss Lillian asked him to move in with her. So he lived with Miss Lillian and drove for Carter while he was running for Governor. We just got closer and closer. Well, just before he got elected, Jody Powell started driving for him. Randy went to work for Billy, in the peanut warehouse. Carter then -- I was interested -- he put me on the crime commission. I was involved. Got more and more interested in things. Came up here and worked for a year. I really got the bug. I worked through two full sessions of the legislature for a man you know very well, one of your old friends, George Bagley. SHORT: Old George! COLEMAN: Yes. I worked for George Bagley for a year, and got to know the state. Got to know a lot of legislators, and just got the bug. So I went home and in 1972 ran for the legislature. Got elected in ' ; 72. Took office in ' ; 73. In the meantime, we stayed in good contact. My brother, Stock, who you know. SHORT: Yes. COLEMAN: In ' ; 70, before Carter took office, Govenor Carter asked my brother Stock, who was on the State Patrol, to become his Chief of Security. And that' ; s how the entanglement and inner relationships came about. But I ran for the legislature. Got elected. I was lucky, very lucky, because I had been involved and Bagley gave me a lot of freedom and he was close to Tom Murphy at the time and others. I had a better than normal in in the legislature. As a matter of fact, a lot of people already thought I was in the legislature. So, when I got elected, I had a head start. I knew everybody. I knew Tom Murphy. At the time, George L. was speaker. George L. was extremely nice to me. Put me on some good committees with Carlton Colwell and Ben Jessup and folks like that. And then, you know what happened after that. George L. died after the first session. Anyway, yeah, that' ; s pretty much how I got started. SHORT: When you came to the capital, was that not in the midst of that great reorganizational effort by Gov. Carter? COLEMAN: Absolutely. And it was a traumatic thing. It strained our relationship a little bit, having been involved with the guys that were running the House at the time, and their resistance to Govenor Carter at the time -- reorganization efforts, it put me under a little bit of a strain. Some of the things I was able to vote for and a few things I couldn' ; t vote for. But, our relationship stayed ok. Yeah. That' ; s the largest reorganization of state government I think before or after. SHORT: Yeah. Do you recall the days when there was a bitter feud between Carter, who was Governor, and Lester Maddox, who had been Governor, and then became Lieutenant Governor? COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: What sort of effect did that have on the legislature? COLEMAN: You know, it' ; s a lot like what' ; s going on right now. It' ; s a lot like one of your good friends, Zell Miller, when Zell and Tom Murphy had their feud. As Henry Bostick said one time about a feud between Tom Morland and Tom Murphy. He said, " ; You know, the generals don' ; t get killed when there' ; s a war that breaks out. It' ; s the soldiers like me!" ; He said, " ; I' ; m fixing to get killed! I' ; m fixing to have to vote on this issue. And if I vote Murphy, I' ; m going to lose everything. If I vote against Tom Morland, I' ; m going to lose all my asphalt." ; You know how that was. But Lester and Governor Carter had a personality issue. I never really got it from either one of them, what it was. It was not pleasant between them. SHORT: Well, it was Governor Carter who did a lot of magnificent things for the state. He was given credit for being a great Governor. And his successor, who served with you in the House of Representatives, George Busbee, came along. And George also was elected and became a very good Governor. George, as I remember him, was very, very tough when he wanted to be. But he undertook some programs that no Governor before him had done, like international trade. He made a lot of missions to Japan and that area to bring business to Georgia. COLEMAN: He broke new ground in Japan. He sure did. SHORT: And in his administration also, he presided over the writing and passage of the new Constitution. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: Which had been one of the toughest things to do. COLEMAN: It was. SHORT: Carl Sanders, when he was Governor, tried and didn' ; t succeed. And, I don' ; t recall, perhaps you do, I hope you do, some of the things in that Constitution that were controversial. COLEMAN: Well, several things. The Constitution as I remember, and I was there. And you mentioned this, I think the difference between Busbee and Carl Sanders, Carl Sanders was in the Senate. The Senate, maybe because of their size or because of the size of their districts, they' ; re not as cohesive as the House. They' ; re not as close, personally, as House members, it seems. Now, it may be smaller groups that are close, but as a whole they' ; re not as close, socially, as House members. And I think Busbee coming from the House had a little bit better toe hold. And whether Speaker Murphy had really got credit -- I mean, whether he deserved all the credit or not, he got some credit for helping Busbee get elected. I don' ; t think Busbee felt he did, but anyway he -- whatever. Busbee made the Constitution a lot more flexible, which in some ways hurt the power of the legislature. One thing that a lot of people don' ; t know, or don' ; t remember, that worried me was that in the old Constitution, the House and Senate met in the first year of a biannual session for 45 days. That took care of the organization of the House and Senate. That took care of the ceremonial things, like the state of the state speech. At the time you had a state of the state speech, then you had the Governor' ; s budget address, other ceremonial things that took place. And when Busbee recommended, or submitted the new Constitution, it was a 40 day session in the first year, a 40 day session the second year. So, there was a major change in terms of the legislature, but not many people noticed. I guess Speaker Murphy at the time signed off on it. I don' ; t remember a lot of the other major changes, but I do believe that it took out a lot of the specific things and put in more general responsibilities. Or more general applications of the Constitution. SHORT: Late in his administration, Governor Busbee presented you a bill that would allow him to succeed himself. Since that time, most of our Governors have been able to do so. COLEMAN: They have. SHORT: Do you think that was a good law? COLEMAN: In retrospect, no. I think the Governor, and the President, ought to be elected for a six-year term. A sole six-year term. I believe it gives them time to focus. The truth is, like the 45 day session the first year and the 40 day session the second year of the legislative term, I think that first year' ; s time gives some opportunity to do that. In the case of the Governor' ; s term, it really takes them two years to get their feet on the ground. To get changes in administration. Again, to put their stamp on an administration. And now, beginning their third year, all they worry about -- not all, but most of them worry about getting elected. Including the President. It' ; s extremely costly in the physical, the mental tole, and worse than that, it takes a financial tole now on Governors. Certainly Congressional candidates. And certainly Presidents. The office of the President, the office of the Governor, I think, ought to be a six-year term. One six-year term. In Georgia, the Governor is vested with an inordinate amount of power. Executive branch, Constitutionally and statutorally, maybe in the top ten in the power of the gubernatorial power. So, you know, your Governor can issue an executive order, as you know, you' ; ve done some! That almost has to force a law, if not enforce a law. SHORT: Speaking of Congressman, we in this state have had many battles over reapportionment. Now you were there and you know the story. Please tell us how we arrived at reapportioning our state. COLEMAN: Well, the Supreme Court, as is usual when legislatures overact or don' ; t act, steps in to do things. I believe that too has gotten out of hand. Ten years is probably ok. I might tell you that Governor Barnes, with our agreement, with our participation, probably overreacted, over-aggressively. He was a brilliant Governor, but I think he was over-aggressive when it came to reapportionment. And people say, " ; Well, Republicans are doing the same thing." ; And I say, " ; They' ; re doing the same thing, but they' ; ve developed it to a fine science!" ; They are really brilliant in their reapportionment! The truth is, it' ; s gotten to the point where it' ; s a political game. And now, George T. Smith and I were talking about this sometime ago, a few, maybe six months or a year ago, not quite a year ago, the Lieutenant Governor, Speaker, Justice Smith and I, he was three people, you know. SHORT: Yeah. COLEMAN: We talked about it. And the truth is, we probably should put together a non-partisan commission to do reapportionment. It' ; s not beneficial to the state, and it' ; s not good for the state. SHORT: Well, we' ; ve got three more years, and we' ; ll have to do it all over again. COLEMAN: All over again. But, you know, they just did it! Reapportionment. And the court backed them and backed the legislature, and said it was within their power. They can reapportion as often as they like. And that creates a lot of concern. A lot of, I guess, uneasiness. It really ought to be every ten years, based on population changes. It ought to be done by a non-partisan commission. SHORT: Well, in the present situation, if the legislature can reapportion anytime it wants to, what happens when parties switch power in the legislature? Would there be a reapportionment there? COLEMAN: Sure! They can. I guess they can. It' ; s unhealthy. It' ; s not good for us. SHORT: George Busbee left office and he was very interested in his successor. And I know you know this, because we were talking about it just a few minutes ago. The last six Governors of Georgia came from the General Assembly. Busbee was proud of his administration, as he should be. The candidate that I think he wanted to succeed him, Joe Frank Harris, who is a friend of yours, a friend of Speaker Murphy' ; s. And Joe Frank ran against a pretty tough opponent. What do you remember about that race? COLEMAN: Well, first you need to know the background of Joe Frank Harris and myself. I was, as I told you, lucky enough to get a head start in the legislature, because of ties and because I' ; d been around them. So, I got good appointments when George L. was speaker. When Speaker Murphy -- I wound up voting for him in a race between he and Al. And Al Burruss and I got to be good friends. But in my second term Speaker Murphy put me on Appropriations. My third term, I was still rapidly rising through the ranks and we have about a thirty or thirty-three percent turnover rate in the legislature annually depending on what kind of year. So, I was rising in seniority and luckily in committee appointments. In my third term, Speaker Murphy made me Secretary of Appropriations. Well, guess who' ; s Chairman? Joe Frank Harris was Chairman. And that was right after " ; Sloppy" ; Floyd died. Joe Frank took over in the middle of the term, then when he had a full term appointment, I became Secretary. He and I got to be good friends. He let me, actually, unlike some people, he let me operate out of his office. Got to be great friends with some of the interns. Wayne Reece turned out to be one of his interns, and he and I are fast friends today. Joe Frank and I got to be really good friends. I got in closely with Joe Frank. And you' ; re right, Busbee was concerned about his legacy, and he was concerned about turning over the reigns of the state to someone he thought would be progressive yet conservative. Maybe it was quiet -- but everybody believed in the insiders in the Busbee administration, they felt like Joe Frank was the guy to do it. And Joe Frank was running -- well, Bo Ginn, as you know, a very popular, very successful congressman from Millen, Georgia. Had risen up to the rank of, maybe Majority Whip or something in the caucus in Washington. You might correct me on that one. SHORT: He was a Whip. COLEMAN: Nobody gave Joe Frank a chance. And as is the case in a lot of races like that, Joe Frank won. Busbee seemed to be happy. Joe Frank and Busbee got along great. Busbee, when he went to the law firm, Joe Frank included him in many things. And so it was a good relationship. SHORT: Which brings this question up from me to you. I have always said that the strength of the Democratic Party in Georgia, was the Georgia House of Representatives. COLEMAN: No question about it. SHORT: Speaker Murphy and people like you and Busbee and Joe Frank Harris were the real heart of the Democratic party in Georgia. COLEMAN: Well, you might consider this blasphemy, but let me tell you what I think. Tom Murphy was one of the strongest, most unusual, one of the most progressive yet conservative -- he was a... SHORT: He was Tom Murphy. COLEMAN: He was a lesson in opposites! You just could never figure him out. Larry Walker said he was the most complex human being he' ; d ever met. Tom Murphy did the state a great service. As I said, I think he kept us out of deep debt. I think he was passionately conservative yet almost socially liberal when it came to, as he says, " ; poor folks and kids." ; He was just a great Georgian. But in retrospect, his service, which he felt was the right thing to do, may have been detrimental to the Democratic party. Anytime you' ; ve been there longer than 20 years, you begin to have more enemies, people who disagree with you politically. And he was such a plain spoken guy that he kind of gathered up some of those. He was the kind of guy who could stay and he could have been Speaker as long as he lived. But he could never run for or be elected statewide. But I think he stayed, probably, four or six years too long. And in doing so, I think it might have -- none of us knew that at the time -- I' ; m talking about in retrospect. In retrospect, he might have held down the bench or held down some people or discouraged some people who might have moved up through leadership posts in another way. And I think that that had a little bit to do with the way things turned out politically. I think that the Republicans were smart, have been smart, and are still smart in the way they' ; ve managed. So, you know, you' ; re right. The House has always been the place, except for Zell, and now Governor Purdue, most of the leadership at different levels came out of the House. But most of it from the legislature. SHORT: You know what somebody told me awhile back? The reason so many people liked George Busbee was because they wanted to do things for him because he was a good guy. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: He was a good fellow. COLEMAN: He was. I think in the end, the thing of all else that elected George Bush President compared to John Kerry was that people said, " ; Well, you know, I may not think this or I may not think that." ; And it' ; s very much like you said about Busbee. " ; I kind of like ole' ; Bush." ; I heard a lot of people say that. " ; I just don' ; t really like Kerry. He' ; s not the kind of guy" ; but you' ; re exactly right. Busbee was, you know, he and Al Holloway and the crew they roomed together, got along together. He had a lot of good friends. But he was just a good guy. But also a good manager of the state. Now let me say this, let me just tell you this. Before he died, we built the Georgia Aviation Technical College, then under the department of technical and adult education. And Busbee loved to fly. And if there was anything next to his family and the Governship, he loved flying. He came down and spent the day with me just playing in the simulators, visiting, looking around. And I think maybe three months later he died, but the people who got to speak him, have their picture made with him, responded very much like you said. He' ; s just a good fellow. Easy to talk to. SHORT: Joe Frank, of course, people think was elected primarily because of the support he had in the House of Representatives, and particularly from Speaker Murphy. But from time to time they had their differences over issues. It' ; s awful hard, isn' ; t it, for a Speaker to rile up against a Governor? COLEMAN: Oh, it is. And I was fortunate to be, through the years, in many of those meetings with Busbee, Speaker Murphy, Larry Walker, Bill Lee, Jack Connell, you know the group. Clarence Vaughn, Roy Lambert, all these folks. A lot more with Joe Frank and then... SHORT: Green Door Committee. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: I want to get to the Green Door Committee. COLEMAN: We will. And then a lot more with, certainly, Zell on down the line. But the one of the great things Tom Murphy taught me, he said, and I tried to show this when I became Speaker and Governor Purdue became Governor. And that was, " ; even if you disagree with the person or his or her politics, you should respect the office." ; That' ; s one thing Speaker Murphy epitomized, you could just bet that was the way he was. Sometimes he' ; d slip and say ugly things about them, you know, but he really, generally, if not always, respected their office. But he really got into it, especially with Zell later on. SHORT: Well, they were friends though. COLEMAN: Oh yeah. SHORT: I' ; ll tell you a story of when Speaker Murphy died. Sen. Miller called me and wanted me to come by. We live about eight miles apart up in the mountains now. And so we sat down and reminisced about Tom Murphy. And despite the many, many battles they had, I think that they both had a respect for each other. And I really believe they were good friends. COLEMAN: There was no doubt. If they didn' ; t respect each other, they would have gotten into fist fights. SHORT: Speaking of Miller, he was elected Governor in 1990 on a platform that was very controversial. The state lottery. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: And that had a tough time for him in the legislature, but it finally passed. And I will always believe that the Speaker had to have a role in that. COLEMAN: Oh, absolutely. Had the Speaker opposed it, it never would have passed. And Zell is another amazing guy. He and I didn' ; t always agree. He was sixteen years as Lieutenant Governor, and you know his history before that with Lester and with other Governors. He served indirectly with some other Governors on the parole board and in-and-out of government. Ran against Talmadge. Ran against -- it might have been -- I don' ; t remember if he was Lieutenant Governor. I think he was. Anyway, he ran against -- was it Phil Landrum? SHORT: Phil Landrum COLEMAN: Phil Landrum once or twice. SHORT: Congressman from the Ninth District. COLEMAN: And when Zell was inaugurated, the same year Busbee was inaugurated as Governor, if you remember, things were a little tight, so Busbee chose to have the inauguration at the Civic Center and not spend the 40 or 50 thousand dollars it would take to build an inaugural platform, which endeared him to a lot of people. It was the right move at the right time to get him started off. The legislature got to sit up front. I was on the second row of that inauguration with members of the legislature. And it was amazing. I don' ; t think this was planned in anyway. Busbee was, like me and a lot of others, he was not the best speaker. He was not a storyteller, not a world-class speaker, but when he spoke, people listened. And he delivered a message. And the truth is, Zell was a little better of a speaker than Busbee. And I' ; ll never forget that Zell actually upstaged the Governor on inauguration day. And, he doesn' ; t like to talk about it, but that' ; s when he was a liberal. And you remember that. SHORT: Yeah. COLEMAN: He was a liberal, and I remember the gist or the part that I remember most about Zell. He talked about " ; old breath and britches." ; A fellow from the mountains that was so thin, he could barely keep his overalls on, and how poor -- he called them " ; pur people" ; came out of the Appalachian mountains and he was going to do something for them. And he did do some things -- a lot of things for them. But it was a liberal speech and it was a great speech. But it really upstaged the Governor at the inauguration. Zell' ; s an unusual guy and very successful. SHORT: Well, he succeeded Joe Frank as Governor. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: And he undertook some programs that were, if not controversial, I' ; m sure they would be heavy for some legislators to carry, like the Georgia Mountain Protection Act. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: That was very controversial, particularly in the mountains. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: Of course, it never passed the way he proposed it, but it did pass. COLEMAN: Well, not much does, as you know. SHORT: Yeah. COLEMAN: Having been there. SHORT: But Miller seemed bent on education. He came up with the HOPE scholarship program, which, I think, has been one of the godsends to the state of Georgia, because so many young people have an opportunity to go to college. But he also did a lot of work on technology in the classrooms. He wanted to be the education Governor, but as I look back over it, Mr. Speaker, I think every Governor has given education his best effort. But, I want to talk a minute now about his appointment to the Senate. Governor Barnes appointed him, crossing party lines, and that upset a lot of people. COLEMAN: We didn' ; t cross party lines! SHORT: Well, as it turned out, that' ; s probably true. But he did not appoint a Republican. Of course, that upset the Republicans, and it had, I think, an effect on Miller' ; s decision to be very, very independent in the United States Senate. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: And I don' ; t see anything wrong with that. COLEMAN: No. SHORT: I think independence is probably one of the greatest things you could have up there. Because if you follow those party lines, if you' ; re so partisan that you don' ; t see the trees through the forest, then you' ; re not going to get anywhere. Don' ; t you think? COLEMAN: Absolutely. Let me go back, and you mentioned this, the lottery was the big issue that people give credit for helping get Zell elected. I don' ; t always agree with that, the concept of the lottery. But you know what helped more, as much as anything? And that was how he sold the lottery. Not the lottery itself, but how he sold HOPE scholarships, full-blown kindergarten, state-paid kindergarten, which was a tremendous asset to this state, to get kids an early start in education. And then the money that was intended to upgrade technology and other things in education. So, Zell, if anybody ever has been, he' ; s been an education Governor. He changed the Regents around, made some major changes there, but, yes. Now, let' ; s talk about his appointment. Certainly, the Republicans got upset about it. If I had been a Democratic Governor, I would have appointed a Democrat too. If I' ; d been a Republican and a vacancy occurred, I would have appointed a Republican, if I' ; d been Governor. I actually believe that Zell wasn' ; t expecting it. Now, he and I haven' ; t talked about that. We' ; ve talked, not lately, but I don' ; t think he was expecting it. And I think, though, it rounded out his complete career. I think he felt when he went to Washington, that he could make a difference. And his relationship with Clinton, they were very close, and he helped Clinton carry Georgia. But I think when he got to the Senate he went with his typical, real independent attitude, and was not loved by the Democratic leadership because he didn' ; t tow the line. And the Republicans, maybe liked him, but maybe they wouldn' ; t take him in. Zell always has been and always will be independent. Maybe not in the literal sense of the word, but he has always been independent. And when he went up there -- I think that' ; s why he decided not to run again. He just didn' ; t feel comfortable with it. SHORT: Roy Barnes told me a funny story about that. He said that he' ; d almost made up his mind about who he wanted to appoint to the Senate, and it wasn' ; t Zell Miller. COLEMAN: Right. SHORT: And you' ; ve probably heard this story. But he got a call, from all people, Tom Daschle, who was the majority leader. A very liberal guy. He called him and asked who he was going to appoint. And he told him the man he had in mind. Daschle says, " ; No. Send us Miller. He can get reelected." ; And I think that is what really persuaded Barnes to do that. Although, Zell and Barnes were good friends, and are good friends. COLEMAN: Who did you think he was going to appoint, can you tell me? SHORT: I will. COLEMAN: Will you? SHORT: Buddy Darden. COLEMAN: Yeah! I knew that they discussed it, but I didn' ; t know. The truth is that some of us felt that he should have appointed Cathy Cox. That Cathy could have been elected and could have been reelected, and would have changed the dynamics, as you know. If we could go back and make one change in history and you change everything. But we thought that Cathy could have been reelected. And Daschle -- that' ; s why Daschle' ; s not there now. SHORT: Yeah. COLEMAN: He was not the best judge. SHORT: Yeah. COLEMAN: Zell did a great job. SHORT: We' ; ve talked a little bit about party politics in Georgia, which begs this question. Most states have party registration. You' ; re either a Democrat, a Republican, or you' ; re an Independent. You can register either way. Should we have that in Georgia? COLEMAN: I don' ; t think so. I don' ; t think people want to be identified. There' ; s been a ground swell of resistance, even to this national I.D. card. Georgians have always been independent. And I think that' ; s why you see on the state level constitutional officers like John Oxendine, Cathy Cox, Karen Handel. And on the Democratic side you' ; ve got Tommy Irvin, who won with the biggest majority of anybody this year as a Democrat. You' ; ve got Thurbert Baker as a Democrat. Michael Thurmond is a Democrat. I just don' ; t believe people want to restrict themselves to that. They may make up their mind at the last minute, which primary they want to vote in. That' ; s the way it should be. Now, I do worry about partisanship. And I don' ; t know how to tackle that. I have some things in me that tell me that I could' ; ve run just as easily as a Republican as a Democrat. But that party registration, I don' ; t think it' ; s good for Georgia. SHORT: Well, let' ; s get back to talking about Terry Coleman. You had a wonderful relationship with Speaker Murphy. How did that develop? COLEMAN: As I said, you' ; re just closer. I' ; ll tell you the truth, I' ; ve worked all my life. I' ; ve either had two jobs and been in the legislature, I' ; ve basically been in the legislature all my life. I' ; ve worked at home. I' ; ve been involved in the fire department or I' ; ve been in the insurance business, the grocery business, in the legislature. And I found out that there are very few substitutes for hard work. When I came to the legislature I displayed that in actual activity. I went to Speaker Murphy -- you know our relationship. I talked about earlier people like George Bagby and Ben Jessup and others in the legislature got me into the inner circle, so to speak. But then I went a step further, and when he put me on the Appropriations Committee, I would go to the speaker and say, " ; Mr. Speaker, do you mind if I sit in and watch you work on the Green Door Committee?" ; And he' ; d say, " ; No, son. Come on in and just sit over there." ; Of course, I knew better than to say anything or do anything. But we developed a relationship. He also developed one with other people. He had a few very, very good friends, as you know. Bill Lee, Marcus Collins, and people like that. SHORT: I' ; m going to ask you about them later. COLEMAN: Okay. But he also had a few of us that he included. Larry Walker, as an attorney. One of my best friends in the legislature and, of course, he became one of the Speaker' ; s close confidantes. As they called us, one of his lieutenants. I guess I was in the other group that dealt with other issues, budget and other things. But we had a great relationship. I worked my business with him just by being involved and just by spending any time I had doing my job and quite frankly, from time to time, being independent. He and I disagreed from time to time, but as I told you earlier, I was respectful of his office. The only time I ever opposed the Speaker in a debate, was on the floor of the House. And I won. It was on an adjournment resolution. When I was Chairman of Appropriations, we passed a bill out of committee. Sent it to the Senate. They finished it. It got back over. Robert Hobbs, who was our legislative budget officer told me, he said, " ; Terry, we can' ; t finish." ; This was maybe two days before adjournment. And he said, " ; We can' ; t finish putting the budget together." ; After the conference committee approved, " ; We can' ; t finish putting the budget together and put it on the desk in time. I' ; ve got to have an extra day." ; That was a tradition in later years, and just before the last day, you would take a day off to catch up with paperwork. Let the clerk' ; s office in the House, the clerk and the Senate, and the budget folks catch up. And he wanted to get it through. You know why? He wanted to go to spring training. I knew what he wanted. And I went down there with him a lot of times. SHORT: Yeah. COLEMAN: But I went to the well of the house and I told him. I said, " ; Mr. Speaker, this is wrong. We don' ; t need to approve this thing." ; I remember what I said. I said, " ; The older I get, the more important regularity means to me." ; And I know a lot of people understand that. You understand that! But in the end, he let me have my say, and I jabbed him a couple of times. He laughed. Finally loosened up. And he said, " ; You know, whatever." ; We did that. But we had a great relationship. I think that he respected me as a budget person. I think that he respected my opinion and called me one of his boys and whatever -- son. He always told people like us, " ; One of these days, I' ; m going to turn this over to you young boys." ; I remember what Larry Walker said. Larry said, " ; Does he know I' ; ve got grandchildren?" ; So we had a good relationship and I was deeply hurt when he died. But, you know, we were expecting it, so... SHORT: Well, would you take long enough to explain to us the Appropriations process in the Georgia General Assembly and take us behind the famous Green Door? COLEMAN: Oh yeah. SHORT: And tell us what the Green Door was. COLEMAN: Okay. Let me tell you this. As you know, you were involved in things, until Lester Maddox was elected Governor, every Governor wrote the budget. Every Governor introduced, if not every bill, almost every bill and called upstairs. He appointed the Speaker. He appointed the Chairmen of the committees. Carl Sanders was the last great all-inclusive, all-comprehensive Governor. He appointed the Speaker. Speaker George T. Smith will tell you that. He appointed me Speaker. And when Lester became Governor, elected by the legislature, George L. Smith took advantage of that, seized the power, and the legislature became independent. When that happened, he started a budget office. It was started with one person, Pete Hackney. Do you remember Pete Hackney? SHORT: I remember Pete very well, yes. COLEMAN: We named that parking lot over there for Pete Hackney. Pete Hackney became the budget officer, and he did it with an old, I think it might have been an old manual calculator and the add machine tape. And he started the budget office. And at that time, the legislature was partially a creature of the old days where they came and they hung around, but didn' ; t really vote. Or they voted when they told them to. So, they needed a group of people who were willing to work and whatever. And that' ; s kind of how the Green Door Committee started. Murphy was Speaker Pro Tem under George L. Smith. I believe I' ; m right about that. And he was involved. He' ; s told me these stories. And as things grew and the complexity and the size of the budget grew, it went from, I think it was Speaker Murphy and Busbee and Marcus or Bill Lee or both of them, whenever Carter was Governor, after Lester. And then it grew a little bit. And the committee would meet. The Appropriations Committee would meet and they would talk about things and hear from all of these departments. But somebody had to make decisions. You can' ; t govern by committee. President Kennedy said, " ; A committee is just a group of people organized to do what one person ought to do." ; As you know. SHORT: Yeah. COLEMAN: So that' ; s how it kind of evolved. Joe Mack Wilson, Al Burruss. Joe Mack told me when he was at Murphy -- I called him Murphy -- don' ; t take that as a sign of disrespect, but Murphy and Collins and all that crowd were in there doing the budget. He' ; d go in and beat on the door, " ; Let me in there! Let me in! What' ; s going on behind the green door?" ; You know, that was a popular song back then. And the press popularized the myth of that green door based on that song, and some of it came from Joe Mack Wilson. Well, finally, they let him in. They let him be involved. Partially because they needed another legislator, I think. Al Burruss might have been in on it, I don' ; t know. But they needed some more representation in the urban areas of the state, and Cobb County was emerging as an urban area -- Marietta. But that' ; s kind of how the Green Door concept came about, to the best of my knowledge, and we grew it a little bit over the years, politically. Speaker Murphy brought in some more people over time. We got up to seven, eight, or nine members finally. The process is that the Governor recommends a budget. The House gets the first shot at it. The House committee goes through their process. And back then, pretty much the Green Door Committee would refine the process, make recommendations, and generally the committee would adopt it. I changed that when I went. Bubba was Chairman of the Appropriations Committee before me. And I changed that a little bit more and opened it up. People like Dick Pettys and everybody was always wanting to come in and sit in on the Green Door meetings. Well, I just opened it. I said, " ; Sure, come on in." ; We also started subcommittees because the budget had grown to the point that nobody could be a real expert on the whole budget. The complexity of government, the size of the budget, the size of the state, different areas were growing compared to the rural areas, when the rural legislators dominated the House. And I think we started out with four subcommittees, and then allowed them to go through their area of the budget and make recommendations to the so-called Green Door Committee. And then the House committee would handle it. Pretty much send it to the floor of the House and the Senate. Now, the reason I' ; m telling you that is that one of the times that it was most trying to Speaker Murphy was a couple of times when Bubba was Chairman. They were doing it the old way. Not many people were involved. And the Macon Five got together and amended the budget. Not much before then or since then had it been amended. They went crazy. They thought that was the worst thing in the world that could happen! They had an amendment on the budget, and they had to go back and rewrite it. Also, let me say this, the Green Door Committee also got a chance at putting some projects in the budget. That was a real incentive to be on the Green Door Committee. And it expanded then to the Chairman on Appropriations. And when we' ; d almost get through the budget, Pete Hackney and Robert Hobbs would come in there and, it was kind of a charade, but the Speaker would say, " ; How much money do we have left?" ; Well, people like Harry Dixon and myself and the leadership -- Larry Walker, Jack Connell, Bill Lee, Crawford Ware, Tom Buck, all of us would be in, and Pete Hackney might say, " ; Well, we' ; ve got two hundred and forty thousand left over, Mr. Speaker." ; Well, all the Chairmen would fight over five or ten or twenty or thirty thousand dollar grants. When I got to be Chairman, I knew we had to endear some people, and I started, with the Speaker' ; s permission and with the leadership' ; s working with me, we started the slush fund. Actually, Speaker Murphy had done that originally. But we would give agencies money and before then, they were doing it a little less informal. We did a formal deal. We' ; d give DHR or Community Affairs two hundred and fifty thousand dollars and some legislator would come in there and say, " ; Commissioner, Mr. Speaker, my basketball team is going to the state championship. The bus is broken down. Can you get me two or three thousand dollars?" ; He' ; d say, " ; I don' ; t know. I' ; ll see." ; And, of course, he' ; d get on the phone and he' ; d call Pete and he' ; d say, " ; Pete, you think you could help old Harry Dixon or Carlton Colwell or whoever it might be find three thousand dollars to help overhaul the bus? They' ; ve got to go to the state basketball game." ; Anyway, Pete would call over the department of education and say, " ; Can you cut a check to the Ware County school system for three thousand dollars for the athletic program?" ; That' ; s how it started out. This is how Dick Pettys won a Pulitzer Prize. He uncovered the things. You remember Nathan Dean? He was a master of it. And that' ; s when we started doing special projects. Dick Pettys called me, or maybe he came to see me. And he said, " ; Well, we' ; ve done away with the slush fund now. What are you going to do?" ; I said, " ; Well, we' ; re going to put them in the budget." ; And he said, " ; How are you going to do that?" ; I said, " ; Well, we' ; re going to line-item these special grants in the budget." ; And it turned out to be pages and pages and pages and going from barely passing the budget on the floor of the House, by giving fifty or one hundred legislators special projects that they asked for, five or ten or fifteen thousand dollar, legitimate local government grants, they were obligated then to vote for the budget! So... SHORT: Tricked them COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: Tricked them! COLEMAN: No. Bribed them. SHORT: Bribed them. COLEMAN: That' ; s kind of how things evolved in the budget process, and how we got to, I guess, where we were. And you might ask about this later, but I spent a lot of my time, hard-working time, helping legislators with their little projects and, of course, with the Speaker' ; s permission, but not doing anything to undermine the system -- working within the system. So, the budget process worked out pretty good. I' ; ll tell you, let me just tell you this one thing, because you' ; re going to ask about some things later on. I don' ; t know how or why, but I think it was to help elect Busbee, in the House, the Chairman of the Appropriations Committee didn' ; t present the budget. Speaker Murphy let Busbee do it. I believe I' ; m right about that, for the exposure. SHORT: He was the majority leader. COLEMAN: He was the majority leader. SHORT: Yeah. COLEMAN: And unless Joe Frank did some of it, I think that -- no. Because Clarence Vaughn, I think, might have done the same thing. And then when Larry became the majority leader, they allowed him to do it too. And by that time, Larry and I were kind of jockying for favor with the members and trying to curry the favor of the speaker. And I didn' ; t know exactly when I needed to do it, but here I was Chairman of the Appropriations Committee, Larry was presenting the budget. He' ; s very knowledgable. Knew a lot about the budget. But he was on the floor and I was sitting back there, you know, sitting in my desk. One day, Speaker Murphy called me in his office. And I, as I do, a lot of people may not know this. I do. I generally have a plan, a backup plan, for just about everything I do, some of it spontaneous. But he called me in his office, and I didn' ; t know what it was about. I thought it was about a budget item. And he said, " ; Terry, I want to ask you something." ; And I said, " ; Yes, sir." ; He said, " ; I had some people telling me you may run against me for Speaker." ; And I said, " ; Well, Mr. Speaker you know, you made me what I am, as far as Chairman of the Appropriations Committee." ; But I said, " ; I' ; ll tell you this. The way things are, it' ; s not fair. And the truth is that I probably ought to run against you." ; He said, " ; Why?" ; I said, " ; Well, Larry' ; s down there presenting the budget. Doing a great job, I can' ; t argue with that. I' ; d do it a little differently, but that' ; s been the tradition. He' ; s presenting the budget, and I' ; m sitting on my butt back there and having to just kind of observe." ; He said, " ; Well, what do you mean?" ; I said, " ; Well, if you' ; re going to let him present the budget, which is the tradition, I think that you ought to let me preside." ; And he said, " ; Well, that' ; s fair enough." ; He said, " ; Are you going to run against me?" ; I said, " ; I' ; d never run against you! You' ; re my friend and mentor. But I do think that you need to do that." ; So, he said, " ; That' ; s fair enough." ; So, I started presiding in a, I guess, for lack of a better word " ; Speaker-esque" ; type position that kind of helped to bring me up in an equal footing with Larry and give people confidence in my ability to preside and to do things. So, that' ; s how that happened. SHORT: Isn' ; t it true, Terry, that the final word on the budget comes from the Conference Committees? COLEMAN: Yes. Usually small differences, but in the scheme of things. SHORT: And isn' ; t it also good that both Houses have Appropriations Chairmans who serve for a long time, like, you know, they had you in the House and, I believe, George Hooks. Senator Hooks? COLEMAN: Oh, absolutely, or have had experience. And, you know, let me say this. Ben Harbin gives me some credit, I don' ; t know if I deserve as much as he gives me sometimes, but I brought Ben in just because he was a sharp young man. Sharp young member of the House. And I saw promise in him. And I brought him in and let him be involved in some things. I think that' ; s one of the reasons the House has been successful since I left as Speaker. The very few of the legislators who started out four years ago when they completely took over the House, had not much experience in dealing with the day-to-day committee work and that kind of thing. But Ben had. Ben had been on a couple of major subcommittees. And I also put him on the local grant subcommittee, the pork barrel projects, we call them. And he sat in on that and was involved and got a chance to get a head start. But, yeah, the tradition was that, other than the Speaker' ; s job, and maybe the majority leader and maybe the Judiciary or -- I think equally that the Chairman of Appropriations, Judiciary, Ways and Means, and the majority leader' ; s job were all equal, required different talents, or required different backgrounds, but equal in stature. So, having somebody with experience as Chairman of Appropriations was absolutely important. Experience and a little tenure. SHORT: So, you included Republican members in your efforts to pass a good budget? COLEMAN: Oh, sure. You had to. Because they began to grow in numbers, and only a dummie would exclude them from the process. You know, I was the first one to do things as a chairman, of course, that was pretty much because the Republican membership grew when I was Chairman of Appropriations. And the last few years the Speaker was Speaker. But people like Burke Day, Mark Burkhalter, Anne -- oh gosh, from Savannah -- SHORT: Purcell. Anne Purcell. COLEMAN: Anne Purcell. But she became a Republican later. She was a Democrat. Gosh, just a minute, let me think of her name. A great lady from down there. All over, I started giving them things. Burkhalter came to me about things like, you know, a nature walk for his school in Alpharetta, and Ben had projects going on. I remember Burke Day called me one day, and he represents lower Chattham County and Tibey Island and he said, " ; I' ; ve got to do something about my beach. It' ; s eroding down there." ; And the Mayor had talked to me and the Butch Parrish had talked to me about some things and others. I believe we put fifty thousand dollars in the budget for Tibey Island to help them with beach erosion. We were going through the budget in the Green Door, and Speaker Murphy liked to be called the titular head, or Chairman of the Green Door Committee, and all of a sudden, he said, " ; What in the hell is this!" ; And he was skipping way ahead, you know, he liked to be ahead of everybody. He was skipping way ahead. And it was fifty thousand dollars for a snow fence for Tibey Island. And he said, " ; What in the hell does Tibey Island need with snow fences?" ; And I said, " ; Wait! Wait Mr. Speaker! This is Burke Day." ; I said, " ; You know, his mother is a fan of yours." ; " ; Yeah, I know. She' ; s a good friend of mine." ; And I said, " ; Burke has a problem with beach erosion. They call it a snow fence, but the truth is it' ; s for sand. And if you put this slotted fence up, it helps build up the sand dunes and whatever." ; And that was one of those things. Yeah, the Republicans got, I think, their share of things in the budget. SHORT: We often hear or read about those types of projects as being questionable by the media, but they' ; re absolutely necessary, aren' ; t they? COLEMAN: Well, my position on that is, why can a Governor or a President call a department head in the executive branch and say, " ; Look, I think we probably need to start putting computers in schools and I' ; d like for you to start with Rabun County." ; Say the Governor' ; s from Rabun County. " ; I' ; d like for you to start with Rabun County up there." ; Or let' ; s just say Zell, for instance. Zell decided he wanted a mountain park! Well, by god, he got a mountain park. And he did it in good style. And he should have. It' ; s a great asset and a great resource to help develop the mountains. But how and why should a Governor have that power, when there are three equal branches of government? Why shouldn' ; t the legislature or Congress have that power, unless they abuse it? If it' ; s a rational, justifiable, in most people' ; s minds, in the body where they serve or in the Governor' ; s mind, why shouldn' ; t they have that power? I say they should. SHORT: Let' ; s talk, for a minute, about your becoming Speaker. COLEMAN: Okay. SHORT: Speaker Murphy lost his race. And that left his seat open. I have heard that over the years he had developed two or three people, friends that he thought were capable of being Speakers. One was you. One was Larry Walker. And the other one I can' ; t remember. So, here we were in Georgia without a Speaker, leaving you and Larry, I guess, in a contest to see who would succeed him. I seriously doubt, and you can confirm this, that Speaker Murphy took any part in that election. Did he? COLEMAN: Not at first. If we have time, and you want to talk about that, we' ; ll talk about that. SHORT: Yeah, I' ; d like to. COLEMAN: During his last three terms, Speaker Murphy threatened, insinuated, that he might not run again. As I told you earlier in our conversation, he referred to people like Jerry -- gosh, give me a minute. I' ; ll think of his name. I' ; m getting a little bit old now. He talked about people like Butch Parrish. He talked about me, Larry Walker, Jerry Jackson, and, gosh, others of our age group, at that time, in their fifties. He' ; d say, " ; Well, I' ; m going to let you young boys have this one day." ; And, quite frankly, he never really felt like anybody could do as good a job as him. That' ; s one of his successful points. He had as much self-confidence as any person I' ; ve ever known. But, he' ; d said it enough for me to know that and I had enough encouragement from the membership that said, " ; You know, you need to run if he quits." ; Al Burruss was the first one that pushed me. And Al was one of the guys that opposed Murphy, but worked, I mean, literally, worked his way back to respect and to come in the inner circle. And Murphy brought him back in. He held it against him long enough for Al to know that he might never want to do it again, but then he brought him back in and made a very productive career. He helped Al Burruss have a legislative career. Anyway, the last four years that Speaker Murphy was there, things were changing. Larry was preparing in his own way. He had a group of people that were supporting him. I was preparing in my own way. I actually did it where it counted. I was lucky enough to have the check book. And I helped people. I mean, helped them not just because I wanted them to vote for me, because it was never a quid pro quo. I helped people because I enjoyed it, but I also helped them because it was the right thing to do. Good for them or whatever. But my alterior motive was to at least give me a fair shot if Larry and I had to run against each other for Speaker. And I remember that we' ; d kind of jockeyed and positioned ourselves. And, you know, he went with the Speaker to the National Speaker' ; s meetings and did the ceremonial kind of things. I was working in a different way. I didn' ; t know if it was productive or not. I was doing a different deal. But, in the end, we kind of wondered if Speaker Murphy might not win. He' ; d had a rough race two years before that, and at the last minute decided to run again. As a matter of fact, the National Speaker' ; s Conference, members of the Speaker' ; s Conference, when I became Speaker, they told me, they said, " ; Well, you know, we thought Murphy was retired four years ago. We took up a collection and bought him a boat!" ; And he didn' ; t retire! But anyway, I was up in Joe Frank Harris' ; s room. I believe it was in the Mariot. I can' ; t remember. One of the downtown hotels when the results were being announced and the first results were coming in. It looked pretty bad for Roy. Then, somebody called me and said, " ; Hey, we think Speaker Murphy' ; s lost." ; Well, I immediately loaded up. I came back to the capitol. During that time you could see that Roy was losing and may not be able to recover. And word kept coming in that looked like Murphy was gone. And I went immediately back over here and I called Speaker Murphy and I said, " ; Speaker Murphy, how do you stand?" ; He said, " ; Son, I' ; ve lost." ; He said, " ; Go ahead and do what you' ; ve got to do." ; And I don' ; t know if he had that same conversation with Larry or not, but I immediately went to work. My team, that I had developed over the years, the Bob Handerds, Butch Parrish' ; s, Richard Royal' ; s, Johnny Floyd' ; s, Nicky Chanel' ; s, Christy Flowers' ; -- who was not in the legislature but was helping me with my campaign -- Gerald Green. Just a host of legislators got busy and started campaigning for me. As you know, Sonny became Governor in a tremendous upset. A shock, I think people say it shocked Sonny and it shocked Roy! So, I don' ; t know, but I was working. Larry was working. You know, it got to that point where the caucus was going to choose, we were still the majority in the number, so we were the majority caucus, and the caucus was going to choose. SHORT: And the caucus chose. COLEMAN: Well, it was not easy. Larry worked hard and I worked hard and it was very close, right up till just before the caucus was going to meet. And there were people still on the fence, even though I began to build up a little momentum. The black caucus met. I know what it was. The black caucus met with us individually over at the Old Stadium Hotel, and that was kind of the last official meeting before the election coming up. And it looked like I had the votes. And I' ; d been all over the state trying to get people, learned a thing or two about committments from Speaker Murphy and people where I had a question mark, I' ; d ask them to write me a letter of committment. And I had two or three of them. Jeanette Jamieson had a hard time making up her mind. She wrote me a letter and then backed out. Wrote me a letter and backed out. It was very close, right up until I kind of knew that I had the votes and people we started talking about then who might be the Speaker Pro Tem nominee. Dubose Porter seemed to be the likely nominee. You know, Dubose, to his credits, said, " ; Terry." ; He said, " ; For the good of the caucus, if it works out this way and you become the nominee for Speaker, why don' ; t you call Larry and ask him if he would be Speaker Pro Tem. I' ; ll back out or I won' ; t offer my name." ; And I did that. And I didn' ; t know at the time that Larry, and you' ; ll have to ask Larry about this, but I guess he was talking with Governor Purdue, or Governor-elect Purdue at the time, and this was right after the couple of weeks before the election for nominees to the caucus. I suppose they must have been talking then. I' ; ve never gone back and asked him. Larry was trying to decide, I guess, if he wanted to be Speaker Pro Tem or run kind of as a third party choice. And I guess you' ; ll just have to find out from Gov. Purdue or from Larry how that worked. I remember, I think it was Friday before the caucus met on Monday or Tuesday, and I called Larry. And I said, " ; Larry, if you would run as Speaker Pro Tem, you can preside when you get ready. I' ; ll give you all the power you feel like you need to carry on, to continue to be involved in the state legislative leaders' ; foundation, whatever you need to do." ; And he just said, " ; Let me think about it and I' ; ll let you know." ; Well, I never heard back. They went ahead and nominated me for Speaker as the majority caucus. Dubose for Speaker Pro Tem and Jimmy Skipper as majority leader. Jimmy Skipper' ; s a very smart, hard-working guy. And after that it kind of cursed my period when I should have had time to organize the House. Larry had mounted a third, so-called third party or alternative race for Speaker. So, I felt good, but I never knew until the day we organized, January, I guess, it was the 13th, the day I was elected Speaker for sure. It kind of cursed my first year. I was late getting organized. So, we had a tough two or three days to get the House organized and committees appointed and that sort-of thing. SHORT: And two years later the Republicans became the majority. COLEMAN: They did. SHORT: Why? COLEMAN: Reapportionment. We assumed that the federal court would give us a fair shake and know that we had a Republican Senate. Eric Johnson would not approve, they would not approve a House plan that gave us a pretty good majority. We held out, thinking in the end that they might agree or the court might give us a better situation, better than we would get with the Republican Senate. That was one thing. When the court came down on us with reapportionment, that was really a tough blow. In my own district, I was disappointed. One of my strongest counties, Telfair County, they took out of my district. That was personally kind of a -- I don' ; t know if it was then or later -- I can' ; t remember now. But anyway, the court, the federal court brought in a special master or somebody from Pennsylvania to draw the districts. That hurt us. The marriage amendment was a strong issue. And it was one of those things that had me torn between the conservative rural Democrats, the liberals in the urban areas who generally didn' ; t want to do anything. Of course, Republicans all were, well, not all, most of them were for the gay marriage amendment, which prohibited marriage among gays. It was a terribly devisive thing. But the timing was right. The gay community had helped, not intentionally, but the attention they had gotten nationally -- the national Republican party was very wise to use it as a wedge issue. And, not that people supported the gay rights or gay marriages, it was a question of whether it ought to be in the Constitution. Well, I was in the middle, torn between allowing my conservative, rural members a vote on that, knowing it might be the death knell for the Democrats, because it would bring out the conservative vote that traditionally voted Republican. Now, the state, all this time, had elected the first Republican Governor. The Republicans in the state and nationally the Republicans were frothing at the mouth to see Georgia ready to turn Republican. So, they were putting a lot of resources into Georgia. Eventually we allowed a vote on it. And when it was a Constitutional amendment, Governor Purdue riding a wave of new Republicanism in this state. The liberal face on the national Democratic party, a Republican president. I guess, it' ; s just what they say, it' ; s a worn cliche " ; the perfect storm." ; And it all worked to have pretty much a major change in Georgia politics. We went from one hundred and eleven or twelve or thirteen House members to -- they wound up with a five or six, maybe less than ten person majority in the House. I didn' ; t do what Larry did. I' ; m not saying he was wrong. Traditionally he was wrong in not ceding to me since the majority party chose me as the Speaker nominee. I said that I was not going to let that happen. I tried to act like a gentleman. And Glenn became the nominee and he came to see me and I told him, " ; Congratulations." ; He said, " ; Well, are we going to have any problems?" ; I said, " ; No. I respect the fact that y' ; all have the majority and you' ; re the nominee and sometime around the first of the year I' ; ll be moved out. You can move in before the session starts." ; Well, that was different from what I had to deal with. Because I couldn' ; t move into the Speaker' ; s office until January 13th. But, yeah, that' ; s kind of, in a nut shell, how it happened. And who knows, it may change again. SHORT: Another big issue while you were Speaker was Governor Purdue' ; s changing the Georgia flag. COLEMAN: Yeah. SHORT: Care to comment on that? COLEMAN: That was another thing that was controversial. The way Gov. Barnes went about changing the flag. We begged him. Some of us who were more conservative friends and rural friends, begged him. We said, " ; Don' ; t do this your first year! This is a major change." ; As you know, they almost beat Zell. Zell only won by thirty thousand votes his second term because he just talked about it. Well, the powers that be. Corporate Georgia, as we call them, the other folks told Barnes, " ; You' ; ve got a great thing going. You' ; ve been on the cover of TIME magazine. You' ; re doing well. If you ever want to do anything good for Georgia, now' ; s the time to do it." ; And he got all wrapped up in that. We said, " ; Governor, this is a divisive issue. Talk about it. Let it soak in and give people time to think about it." ; Well, I' ; d been hearing this. And I know that some people in the legislature had been kind of quietly talking about it. Well, I just believed it was a farce. When they told me that, I' ; m going back before, now. Governor Barnes was going to get the bill out of committee, the Rules Committee, and on to the floor in one day. That was a tough deal. Finally, you know, it lost, I think it lost the first time. This was changing to the blue flag, away from the flag from 1956 on. And I think it might have failed on the first vote or whatever. I know if failed on the first vote. And they worked it, and they worked and worked it, finally passed it. Well, that was partially responsible for Gov. Barnes' ; s defeat, and for the change. And it wasn' ; t so much changing the flag, as we' ; ll discuss further, if you' ; ll give me a little time here, that we' ; ll discuss in a little bit. It was the way it was handled. It was almost as if they ignored tradition. Ignored the will of the people. Snuck the bill out. That' ; s the way it was perceived. And passed it. As you know, that' ; s one of the reasons Sonny won. Okay. Move forward. When Sonny was running he promised a vote on the flag. I was Speaker. The old flag was there. We had a new design. George Hooks was involved in it. A lot of people were involved in it. It was basically Bobby Franklin' ; s idea of going back to the flag before ' ; 56. It was Georgia' ; s original flag, as a matter of fact. And today' ; s flag is a small variation of Georgia' ; s original flag. It came out of the Senate, I believe is right. They had a problem with it. I don' ; t remember if it came from the House to the Senate or the Senate to the House. The Senate to the House. I don' ; t remember. No. It came from the House and was sent to the Senate. It passed the House, was sent to the Senate and was changed. And at that time, a lot of people mounted a big protest. It came back to the House for final approval as amended. George Hooks and some others over there changed it, as they said, to be historically correct. And I said, " ; George, god knows! Why did you send that back to me?" ; I said, " ; We could lose this bill." ; The Governor had asked me to help him. We knew it needed to be done, but this was, I think, more of a proper way to do it. The debate lasted a long time. I remember Judy Manning, it was toward the end of the session. It might have been the last day of the session, or the day before the end of the session. Judy Manning, who was a vote for it, finally in the wee hours she told me,she said, " ; I' ; ve got a cruise planned. My whole family is on the cruise. I tried to wait. I' ; ve got to go." ; A lady from Augusta. A legislator over there, her mother got sick. They had probably an eight or ten vote lead, and as the day wore on, that lead dwindled to nothing! And when the final vote on changing, on the final vote! This was it. The end of the flag controversy. A vote for a referendum on the existing flag. And we had it, I believe, it was late in the day. It could have been eight or nine o' ; clock at night. Finally voted on it. And what do you believe, what would you think? SHORT: Tie. COLEMAN: The vote was 94, and I' ; ve forgotten what the vote against was. It wasn' ; t a tie. It might have been 90 or whatever. Well, the one thing I learned from Speaker Murphy was that when you go to precide over every bill, you better have your mind made up how you are going to vote, or you' ; re going to get caught in a mess. Well, I knew how I was going to vote, but I had no idea it would be like. You have to have 91 votes for a Constitutional majority. The vote comes up 90 votes, and I said, " ; Oh my god!" ; You know, I' ; m representing a conservative district. We' ; ve just gone through that thing with Roy. And so, I took a deep breath, and I said, " ; Chair votes, aye. This bill having received requisite Constitutional majorities is therefore, passed." ; People were stunned! Lynn Westmoreland was standing there saying, " ; What happened, you know, it only got ninety votes, you know?" ; A lot of people never realized what happened. There was a silence in the whole chamber. What seemed like five minute was only fifteen or twenty or thirty seconds. And then whatever side you were on, there was some moaning and groaning and some cheering. Of course, I gaveled everybody back to order. And I remember one thing that stuck out in my mind. David Lucas stood up and said something, " ; Way to go! Way to go Mr. Speaker!" ; Or something like that, and I said, " ; Please sit down, David." ; And I had to stand there and take a breathe because I had never, ever thought that I would have to be the deciding vote on that. But it was the right thing to do, and we got a great flag. SHORT: Great flag. COLEMAN: The Governor' ; s proud. He lived up to his responsibility. And it' ; s a beautiful flag. SHORT: And we' ; ve moved ahead. COLEMAN: We' ; ve moved ahead. We' ; ve moved on. SHORT: Right. A new career for you now. COLEMAN: Yeah, different. SHORT: Yeah. But you have the background for it. COLEMAN: Well, yeah, maybe so. I' ; ve been in the food business all of my life. I' ; ve been in the grocery business and the restaurant business as one of my three jobs. SHORT: Right. And I suppose that you' ; ll be working on some issues that face the state in agriculture? COLEMAN: Do you have time to talk about it? I want to talk to you about it. SHORT: Of course. COLEMAN: Let me tell you what we' ; re faced with. Agriculture is still the number one industry in Georgia when you include the timber industry. And it' ; s been tough. We have an opportunity, and I have really enjoyed this. Commissioner Irvin called me after I decided not to run again. And the House and the Speaker had been kind enough to bestow a title on me, Speaker Emeritus. It' ; s kind of the honorable way to not be beaten, but still not have your office, but have a title. They' ; d been kind enough to do that. And in the waning days of the legislature, after the new legislature had been elected, actually, Rusty Paul had come to me and said, " ; How about let' ; s start a lobbying firm? I' ; ve already got a lobbying firm. Would you come join me?" ; And I thought it was a great idea. He and I talked about it. We went far enough to draw up paperwork to incorporate and do everything. In the meantime, Tommy Irvin called me and said, " ; Come over here. I want to talk to you. Will you help me?" ; To make a long story short, " ; Will you help me next session with my legislative program?" ; And I think Bobby Rowan had had a little bit to do with that. You didn' ; t know Bobby Rowan, did you? SHORT: Everybody knows Bobby Rowan! COLEMAN: Well, a great American! Former Public Service Commissioner, candidate for Governor, and a great Senator. Anyway, he asked me, and I was intrigued with the offer, even though it was what some people said was probably a step down from Speaker. But, as I told you earlier, I' ; ve worked all my life and I didn' ; t think I could handle the prospect of not continuing to work in some form in government or be involved. And Rusty had offered me what I thought was a lucrative opportunity. Him as a former Chairman of the Republican party, a former Republican Senator, and me as a former Democratic House member and a Democratic Speaker. It was a great opportunity, and I like Rusty, even though I told him as he tried, we laughed at each other. We said we each tried to beat each others butts during our political careers, but we' ; re still friends. We' ; re good friends. And I just decided I wasn' ; t sure I wanted to lobby. And this came along, so I decided I' ; d try it. Tried it for a few months, stood the session. We had a good session on some legislation. A little help in the budget. The Speaker and the leadership were good to me in helping me help Tommy in the department. I got involved in issues. These were issues that I really enjoy. And let me tell you some of the things that we' ; re doing. We' ; re promoting, because agriculture is truly the major industry in Georgia, we' ; ve lost, through 70 years of agriculture, we at one time had as many as several thousand dairies in the state. We were down to 271 dairies. We started promoting what' ; s known as producer processor dairies. Now, this was not an original idea. But it had never had the attention or the help that we started giving them in Georgia. We dedicated a person to help them get started. To help them through the process, through the bureaucratic thing. We made some modifications to our rules and interpretations of the state laws dealing with dairies. We now have seven producer processor dairies in the state, and not only have they become great producers of product, but most of them are family owned. They produce a great quantity of milk, because it' ; s a hands-on operation. They produce great butter, and it' ; s a value-added product in the dairy business. We see Sparkman Dairy down in Moultrie, a Flat Creek, or Cagle dairy. Some of them are producing ice cream. Sweetgrass in Thomasville is producing a goat cheese and other products from goat' ; s milk. We' ; ve turned the dairy business around in Georgia. We now have two hundred -- I don' ; t know if it' ; s two hundred and seventy, three hundred and seventy-three so, we' ; ve turned it around and are moving it up. Georgia also is becoming a host state to the concept of New Zealand-style dairies. The old dairies, as you know and I knew, were what' ; s called confined animal operations. CAFO. You fed them in a stall, you let them cool in a covered stall. You had to have huge investment in a lagoon to take care of animal waste and that kind of thing. Well, the New Zealand concept, which we' ; re promoting, or the pasture-based grazing daires, is a whole new concept. They use a circuit irrigation system. They grow the grass in paddocks, or the animals are kept in paddocks where they move from one paddock to another. In hot weather they use a mister under the irrigation system so the cows graze. They move under the mister when it' ; s hot. When they get cool, they move back out and continue to graze. So, it' ; s more natural. 85% of all urination and defecation stays on the pasture land and they don' ; t need an expensive lagoon system. They don' ; t have to have a cooling barn. We' ; re looking at trying to promote, because of the cost of corn now, it' ; s affecting all our food products. Because Georgia poultry is the number one ag. product in the state, poultry relies heavily on corn. We' ; re promoting something we worked on when I was Chairman of the Appropriations. Gail Buchanan was head of the extension service. It' ; s called Pearl Millet -- as a substitute for corn. We' ; ve gotten very deep into consumer protection. Fish substitution, species identification. Some people have illegally substituted cheaper Asian fish for expensive grouper, snapper, that kind of thing. We' ; re doing things with our food banks. We' ; re making them more available to people in areas that have never been served by food banks. Just doing a lot of things that I really enjoy that go back to my background in the food business. And so I' ; ve enjoyed helping Commissioner Irvin. He' ; s the longest serving, continuously serving, Ag. Commissioner in the country. I' ; ve learned a lot by our association. It' ; s been a good relationship and I' ; ve enjoyed being over here. I' ; d give you a lot more details, but you might be bored. SHORT: No! Not boring at all. In fact, I' ; m very interested in it. As a matter of fact, it brings up another question. Should we be concerned about the amount of food we' ; re importing into the United States? COLEMAN: Absolutely. We are concerned. We now have one, excuse me, seafood specialist on the coast. We' ; ve just gotten approval by the legislature to hire a second. Our consumer protection staff spends a lot of time, even with American-produced food, we see contamination, certainly not intentionally, though we are preparing for that with our efforts in homeland security. We don' ; t want to be caught unawares, or be caught unprepared. But this year we had a major meat processor that processed canned, prepared meats have a retort go bad. A cooker. And turned out tons and tons, thousands of cans of bad meat, which carried in it a botulism and the germs with the potential for botulism. We wound up working with FDA overseeing the seventeen tractor trailer loads of product delivered to Alabama for incineration. Pulled a lot more off the shelf. We just had an exercise this past, gosh, a couple of months ago, with the Georgia Ports Authority, TSA, Customs and Border Patrol, FDA and others on shipments coming into this state. As you know, Savannah is one of the largest, maybe second largest, container port on the eastern sea board. We' ; re actually seeing, approximately, 320,000 tons of food coming into the Atlanta airport every year. Some destined for this state. So, imported foods are a tremendous concern. The quality, the potential contamination for those foods, is an ongoing problem. We' ; re trying to prepare for it. The legislature gave us another position, which we plan to use in the Atlanta airport area just to look for bad food or food coming in from other countries. SHORT: And now, Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask you this question. What is your fondest memory of serving in the Georgia General Assembly? COLEMAN: Well, that' ; s the toughest question you' ; ve asked me. Because I have hundreds of them! I think, probably, being elected Speaker was my fondest memory. Some of the best people I' ; ve ever met, some of my -- still, my best friends are people I served with in the legislature. And people I still talk with on a regular basis. Becoming Speaker, that' ; s the highest honor you can get serving in the legislature. SHORT: What is your biggest disappointment? COLEMAN: Not still being Speaker. SHORT: That' ; s a good one. How would you like to be remembered? COLEMAN: Well, I' ; d like to be remembered as a good Speaker and a good legislator. Fair, hard-worker, kind, maybe. Approachable. Well, in a lot of ways, I don' ; t know. SHORT: Well, I' ; ve always been a great admirer of yours, and I appreciate you being with us. COLEMAN: Thank you. It' ; s a mutual relationship, I hope. Thank you. [END RECORDING] Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL220ROGP-025.xml RBRL220ROGP-025.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL220ROGP/findingaid http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL220ROGP-025/findingaid
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Interview with Terry Coleman, March 24, 2008
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Terry Coleman
Bob Short
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Agriculture
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Terry Coleman was born in Dodge County, Georgia, and his legislative career began when he was elected to the Georgia House of Representatives in 1972, where he served on the Appropriations Commitee. In this interview Coleman discusses his political career in the Georgia General Assembly working on various committees, his role succeeding Tom Murphy as Speaker of the House in 2003, and his work as Deputy Commissioner of Agriculture. He also discusses his working relationships with Murphy and the governors under whom he served, beginning with Jimmy Carter.
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2008-03-24
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Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection
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Georgia--History
Georgia--Politics and government
Politics and Public Policy
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The Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection consists of interviews with politically prominent Georgians conducted by Bob Short from 2006 to 2016. Interviewees include former governors, members of both the U.S. and Georgia Congresses, secretaries of state, lobbyists, journalists, lawyers, activists, and relatives of prominent politicians. Included with these oral histories are a few public programs recorded at Young Harris College in 2006-2007. Most interviews were recorded in the homes and offices of interviewees or in the Bob Short Oral History Studio at the University of Georgia. The conversations cover many topics at the intersection of politics and public life in modern Georgia, with a particular strength in gubernatorial contests, the Civil Rights movement, reapportionment, the development of Atlanta, the rise of the Republican party in Georgia, political journalism, and the interaction between religion and politics.<br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=9&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here. </a>
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5.3 Interview with Lindsay Thomas, May 4, 2012 RBRL220ROGP-137 RBRL220ROGP Reflections on Georgia Politics Oral History Collection ROGP 137 Lindsay Thomas interview finding aid Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Lindsay Thomas Bob Short 0 http://youtu.be/bsvRSzNgFDA YouTube video 28 Introduction I'm Bob Short, and this is Reflections on Georgia Politics, sponsored by the Richard B. Russell Library at the University of Georgia and Young Harris Thomas. Interviewer Bob Short introduces interviewee Lindsay Thomas. 17 68 Early life / Education With this--and with your commission, permission, I'd like to start at the very beginning. Thomas recalls growing up in a small town and attending UGA before beginning a brief career at a Savannah bank. 4H ; Band ; Brokerage ; Church ; CNS Bank ; Debate club ; Farmer ; Fishing ; Football ; Fraternity ; Future Farmers of America ; General store ; Gordon Military School ; Greek life ; Housewife ; Hunting ; Melinda Thomas ; Merchant ; Omen ; Patterson, Georgia ; Quail season ; Quartet ; Savannah, Georgia ; Small town ; UGA ; University of Georgia 17 250 Inheriting a farm / Running for Congress Um, I went into the brokerage business and it was the only job I ever had that I did not like, that I could not put my heart into. Thomas discusses how his work as a farmer sparked an interest in public policy, and describes a letter written to him by his then-wife encouraging him to run for office. Agricultural Stabilization and Conservation Service ; Agriculture ; ASCS committee ; Banking ; Bo Callaway ; Corn ; Elected office ; Energy provision ; Farmer ; Ford tractor ; Grace Acres Farm ; Inheritance ; Legislation ; Lindsay Grace ; Primary ; Public office ; Ronald " ; Bo" ; Ginn ; Run-off ; Tobacco ; Washington, D.C. ; Water provision ; Wayne County, Georgia 17 540 Congressional campaign / Assembling a staff Well, without spin doctors and polls, and push-polls, and robo-calls, how did you campaign? Thomas details campaigning in small towns in Georgia and assembling a staff from Bo Callaway's employees following Callaway's loss. 17 762 Early years in Congress So you go to Washington with no legislative experience ; how long did it take you to learn all of the tricks? Thomas tells of learning the ropes in D.C. by watching other politicians and engaging in various political and social events. Appropriations committee ; Bipartisan ; Blue dog democrats ; Bullfeathers of Capitol Hill ; Carl Sagan ; Committee chairman ; Conservative coalition ; Conservative Southern democrat ; Corporate restructuring ; Ed Jenkins ; Edward Teller ; Eulogy ; House of Representatives ; Jim Slattery ; Moderate republicans ; Newt Gingrich ; Nuclear winter ; Robert Reich ; Ronnie Flippo ; T. Boone Pickens ; United States Senate 17 1023 Protecting agricultural interests in Georgia So Jenkins was sort of a mentor? Thomas speaks starting the Congressional Sporstmen's Caucus, of which he remains chair, and serving on the Agricultural and Appropriations Committees 17 1406 Work on Southern caucuses You mentioned caucuses ; were you a Blue Dog? Thomas mentions some of the caucuses and coalitions to which he belonged during his time in Congress. Arkansas ; Boll weavils ; Conservative coalition ; Democratic chair ; Herd animals ; Joseph Westphal ; Mike Ross ; Sunbelt Caucus ; Wetlands ; Wolf compromise 17 1519 Critical issues in early Congressional service Let's talk about some other major issues that, um, challenged you and you participated in when you were in Washington. Thomas discusses casting a vote to disallow conversion of a war chest fund to private use and serving on a commission to change Social Security rules. Actuary ; Alan Greenspan ; Blue Ribbon Commission ; Campaign funding ; Energy crisis ; Federal government ; Health care ; Non-partisan cooperation ; Retirement ; Social Security ; War chest 17 1776 Decision to leave the Congress / Joining the Georgia Olympic Committee So after five terms you hung it up. 1996 Olympics ; Billy Payne ; Career politician ; Charlie Battle ; Georgia delegation ; Government relations ; Horace Sibley ; Nancy Newton ; Partisan divide ; Statesboro, Georgia ; Subcommittee chairs Thomas indicates his decision to retire from politics stemmed from growing partisanship and a disconnect with national Democratic leadership, as well as a desire to not be a career politician. 17 2075 Key accomplishments in office As you look back over your service in Congress, what do you feel were your greatest accomplishments? Thomas states that his congressional service was distinguished through group, rather than singular, efforts and describes some of the key issues of his service. Beach re-nourishment ; Capital gains ; Cumberland Island, Georgia ; Dredging ; FBI ; Federal Bureau of Investigation ; Federal prison ; Forestry ; Fort Stewart, Georgia ; Freshwater wetlands ; Negotiation ; Savannah River ; Taxation ; Team player ; Tidegate ; U.S. Navy ; Walter Jones 17 2351 Debating in favor of U.S. participation in the Gulf War It was a great experience--I tell you, one of the last things that I think I played a role in--I don't think there's any doubt about this... Thomas tells of advocating for the resolution to engage in the Gulf War in the early 1990s. Arab region ; Bahrain ; Barry McCaffrey ; Benjamin Netanyahu ; Egypt ; Gulf War ; Israel ; John Sununu ; Kuwait ; Operation Desert Storm ; Saddam Hussein 17 2668 Disappointments in office Any disappointments? Thomas expresses his disappointment in the schism within the Democratic party and lack of partisanship between the parties. Barney Frank ; Conservative democrats ; Doctrine ; Henry Waxman ; Moderate democrats ; Political image 17 2793 Planning for the 1996 Olympics in Atlanta Getting back to the Olympics ; how difficult was it to put the pieces together? Thomas describes some of the difficulties in bringing together disparate personalities to plan for the Olympic games Athletics ; Billy Payne ; Cedartown, Georgia ; Construction ; Economic development project ; Olympic games ; Olympic venues ; Robert Woodruff ; Security ; Torch run ; Transportation 17 3054 Petitioning for position with the Georgia Chamber of Commerce Well there's no doubt that your work with the Olympics caught the attention of the State Chamber of Commerce... Thomas describes being impressed with the Georgia Chamber of Commerce during his time in office and subsequently vying for a position as president and CEO of the organization. A.W. “Bill” Dahlberg ; Allen Franklin ; Arnold Tenanbaum ; Business interests ; Charlie Harman ; Chatham Field ; Chief of Staff ; Environmental conservation ; Sam Nunn ; Savannah/Hilton Head International Airport ; Senate Armed Services Committee ; Southern Company 17 3384 Georgia as the economic hub of the South / Natural environment Okay, let's talk for a minute about Georgia's transformation from just another Southern state into the empire state of the South. Thomas opines on what distinguishes Georgia from other Southern states, including leadership and natural resources, and emphasizes the particular role Atlanta has played in the state's economic development, and speaks about water issues in Georgia. Atlanta, Georgia ; Augusta, Georgia ; Columbus, Georgia ; Economic development ; J.W. Fanning ; Jim Blanchard ; Jones family ; Land-grant college ; Leadership ; Macon, Georgia ; Natural resources ; Public/private partnership ; Quality of life ; Rural areas ; South Georgia ; The sunbelt ; William B. Hartsfield 17 3917 Recruitment of international industry to Georgia Let's talk, uh, for a minute about our modern governors. Thomas commends the work of Georgia's governors to recruit companies to set up in the state, though indicates that he would prefer that companies be dispersed throughout the state. 17 4168 Work on the Tri-State Water Compact Well you mentioned water ; now let's talk about your role as commissioner of the Tri-State Water Compact... Thomas describes some of the conflicts and litigation stemming from water preservation and usage issues in the region, and opines that it will be impossible to sign a 50-year agreement with neighboring states because water availability is impossible to predict. Adaptive management ; Alabama ; Allocation formula ; Atlanta Regional Commission ; Clay Long ; Florida ; Harvard University ; Lake Lanier ; Newt Gingrich ; Paul Magnuson ; Rainfall ; Reservoirs ; Settlement ; Tennessee ; Tri-State Water Wars ; U.S. Army Corps of Engineers ; Watershed 17 4811 Conclusion Lindsay, we've enjoyed talking with you. Short and Thomas conclude the interview. 17 Oral History No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. video 0 RBRL220ROGP-137.xml RBRL220ROGP-137.xml http://russelldoc.galib.uga.edu/russell/view?docId=ead/RBRL220ROGP-ead.xml http://russelldoc.galib.uga.edu/russell/view?docId=ead/RBRL220ROGP.137-ead.xml
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Lindsay Thomas, May 4, 2012
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL220ROGP-137
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Lindsay Thomas
Bob Short
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
video
oral histories
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Subject
The topic of the resource
State governments--Officials and employees
Agriculture
Boards of trade
Economic development
Agriculture and Industry
Description
An account of the resource
Robert Lindsay Thomas is a U.S. Representative from Georgia. He was elected as a Democrat to the Ninety-eighth and to the four succeeding Congresses (1983-1993). Thomas discusses his involvement with agriculture, his experience in Washington, D.C. and his work with water resource management in Georgia.
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-05-04
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
moving image
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
First Person Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
Description
An account of the resource
The First Person Project was launched by the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies in 2012 to record and preserve stories of life in post-twentieth century Georgia. Modeled roughly on StoryCorps, the First Person Project is smaller in scale but similar in concept--an oral history program designed to capture the stories of everyday Georgians. Interviewees are self-selecting. Pairs of friends or loved ones register to participate in the First Person Project on a designated day, and the conversation (up to forty minutes) is facilitated and recorded by Russell archivists. <br /><br />The First Person Project collects personal narratives and oral histories documenting life in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. Interviews are usually between two friends or family members and typically focus on personal stories such as relationships and family histories. Interviews also touch on larger historical and cultural themes such as racial identity, religion, environmental history, gay rights, the death penalty, and life in Athens and in Georgia.<br /><br />The First Person is divided into five series. <br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=I.+Georgia+Narratives">I. Georgia Narratives</a><br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=II.+Americus,+Georgia">II. Americus, Georgia </a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Americus, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Americus, Ga., at the Lee Council House in December 2013. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library, the UGA Archway Partnership, and the Americus Downtown Development Authority.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=III.+Hawkinsville,+Georgia">III. Hawkinsville, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Hawkinsville, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Hawkinsville, Ga., at the Hawkinsville Dispatch & News building in February 2014. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library and the UGA Archway Partnership.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=IV.+Plains,+Georgia">IV. Plains, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Plains, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Plains, Ga., at the Plains Historic Inn in February 2014. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library, the UGA Archway Partnership, and the Americus Downtown Development Authority.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=V.+Beech+Haven,+Athens,+Georgia">V. Beech Haven, Athens, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Beech Haven, Athens, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Athens, Ga., through a partnership between the Russell Library and Dr. Cari Goetcheus, College of Environment and Design, UGA.
<div></div>
</div>
<br /><br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=12&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&exhibit=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-2018
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL324FPP
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Americus, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
30 minutes
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL324FPP-0026/audio-access" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL324FPP-0026/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2013-12-03
Interview with Willie Green Cutts, December 3, 2013
RBRL324FPP-0026
30 minutes
RBRL324FPP
First Person Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Willie Green Cutts
Angie Singletary
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=0_litmggvu&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_s8593ye3" width="400" height="285" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Kaltura Player"></iframe>
18
Childhood Experiences
Mr. Cutts, we're glad...
Willie Green Cutts was born in De Soto, GA and was raised by his grandparents. He discusses walking five miles to school and his grandmother's job as a midwife when he was ten years old. He explains that his grandmother only had one child, but she raised many children.
Lee County, GA
286
Education/ Spiritual Experience
So, you talked about walking...
Cutts explains that he attended school until third grade, and later worked plowing mills and occasionally sang for entertainment in Atlanta. He details a spiritual experience in a field that assured him even without an education that he would work things out.
"He's Got the Whole World in His Hands" (song);Atlanta, Ga
518
Work Experiences
I got old enough...
Cutts recalls being granted generous loans and eventually was able to farm five thousand acres. He mentions receiving a call form Senator Talmadge to come to Washington, where he was the only Black man working on a committee. After a few bad farming years, he discusses opening a restaurant, which he's ran for twenty years.
Bank of Commerce;Cutts Restaurant;De Soto, GA;Herman E. Talmadge;Washington, DC
841
Family and Work
What about family...
Cutts discusses his family life and meeting his wife. He explains leaving school to help his grandfather on the farm, and his experience with singing. He shares that, though money was tight, he's been blessed.
Cutts Restaurant;De Soto, GA;Martha Fish Cutts
1190
Farming and Valuable Experiences
Now, it was hard work...
Cutts details the work he did on the farm working long hours and shares a few particular experiences on the farm. He also recalls his one experience getting drunk on whiskey and the lessons he learned throughout his life.
De Soto, GA
1486
Closing Remarks
State Trooper...
Cutts recalls a memory of getting pulled over for speeding and how lessons from his childhood have helped him in adulthood. He recalls his grandmother's parenting style and agrees that he has tried to instill the same lessons she taught him in his children and grandchildren.
De Soto, GA
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL324FPP/findingaid
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Subcollection/Series
Hidden element to divide collections up into sub-collections or series.
II. Americus, Georgia
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL324FPP-0026
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Willie Green Cutts, December 3, 2013
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Willie Green Cutts
Angie Singletary
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2013-12-03
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
African American business enterprises
Business enterprises
Restaurateurs
Agriculture
Agriculture and Industry
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Description
An account of the resource
Willie Green Cutts talks about being raised by his grandmother and helping his grandfather with farming rather than finishing school. He discusses working as an entertainer, his experience as a farmer, and how he acquired his land. Cutts also shares some of his most valuable life experiences and lessons, such as being invited to sit in on a Senate committee meeting and a spiritual awakening. <br /><br/><br/>This interview is part of the <a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=II.+Americus,+Georgia">Americus, Georgia</a> series.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
First Person Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
Description
An account of the resource
The First Person Project was launched by the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies in 2012 to record and preserve stories of life in post-twentieth century Georgia. Modeled roughly on StoryCorps, the First Person Project is smaller in scale but similar in concept--an oral history program designed to capture the stories of everyday Georgians. Interviewees are self-selecting. Pairs of friends or loved ones register to participate in the First Person Project on a designated day, and the conversation (up to forty minutes) is facilitated and recorded by Russell archivists. <br /><br />The First Person Project collects personal narratives and oral histories documenting life in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. Interviews are usually between two friends or family members and typically focus on personal stories such as relationships and family histories. Interviews also touch on larger historical and cultural themes such as racial identity, religion, environmental history, gay rights, the death penalty, and life in Athens and in Georgia.<br /><br />The First Person is divided into five series. <br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=I.+Georgia+Narratives">I. Georgia Narratives</a><br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=II.+Americus,+Georgia">II. Americus, Georgia </a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Americus, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Americus, Ga., at the Lee Council House in December 2013. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library, the UGA Archway Partnership, and the Americus Downtown Development Authority.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=III.+Hawkinsville,+Georgia">III. Hawkinsville, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Hawkinsville, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Hawkinsville, Ga., at the Hawkinsville Dispatch & News building in February 2014. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library and the UGA Archway Partnership.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=IV.+Plains,+Georgia">IV. Plains, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Plains, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Plains, Ga., at the Plains Historic Inn in February 2014. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library, the UGA Archway Partnership, and the Americus Downtown Development Authority.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=V.+Beech+Haven,+Athens,+Georgia">V. Beech Haven, Athens, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Beech Haven, Athens, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Athens, Ga., through a partnership between the Russell Library and Dr. Cari Goetcheus, College of Environment and Design, UGA.
<div></div>
</div>
<br /><br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=12&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&exhibit=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-2018
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL324FPP
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Hyperlink
A link, or reference, to another resource on the Internet.
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
39 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL324FPP-0044/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Subcollection/Series
Hidden element to divide collections up into sub-collections or series.
I. Georgia Narratives
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL324FPP-0044
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Raleigh Saperstein, April 4, 2014
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Foodways
Agriculture and Industry
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-04-04
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Raleigh Saperstein
Callie Holmes
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Description
An account of the resource
Raleigh Saperstein talks about her involvement with the farming and local food scene in Athens, including her work with the Athens Farmers Market and Wholesome Wave outreach. <br /><br/><br/>This interview is part of the <a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=I.+Georgia+Narratives">Georgia Narratives</a> series.
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
First Person Project
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
Description
An account of the resource
The First Person Project was launched by the Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies in 2012 to record and preserve stories of life in post-twentieth century Georgia. Modeled roughly on StoryCorps, the First Person Project is smaller in scale but similar in concept--an oral history program designed to capture the stories of everyday Georgians. Interviewees are self-selecting. Pairs of friends or loved ones register to participate in the First Person Project on a designated day, and the conversation (up to forty minutes) is facilitated and recorded by Russell archivists. <br /><br />The First Person Project collects personal narratives and oral histories documenting life in the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. Interviews are usually between two friends or family members and typically focus on personal stories such as relationships and family histories. Interviews also touch on larger historical and cultural themes such as racial identity, religion, environmental history, gay rights, the death penalty, and life in Athens and in Georgia.<br /><br />The First Person is divided into five series. <br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=I.+Georgia+Narratives">I. Georgia Narratives</a><br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=II.+Americus,+Georgia">II. Americus, Georgia </a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Americus, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Americus, Ga., at the Lee Council House in December 2013. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library, the UGA Archway Partnership, and the Americus Downtown Development Authority.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=III.+Hawkinsville,+Georgia">III. Hawkinsville, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Hawkinsville, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Hawkinsville, Ga., at the Hawkinsville Dispatch & News building in February 2014. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library and the UGA Archway Partnership.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=IV.+Plains,+Georgia">IV. Plains, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Plains, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Plains, Ga., at the Plains Historic Inn in February 2014. Interviews were made possible through a partnership between the Russell Library, the UGA Archway Partnership, and the Americus Downtown Development Authority.</div>
<a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=V.+Beech+Haven,+Athens,+Georgia">V. Beech Haven, Athens, Georgia</a><br />
<div style="margin-left:2em;">Beech Haven, Athens, Georgia, interviews were recorded in Athens, Ga., through a partnership between the Russell Library and Dr. Cari Goetcheus, College of Environment and Design, UGA.
<div></div>
</div>
<br /><br /><a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=12&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&exhibit=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2012-2018
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL324FPP
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4 Interview with Frank McGill, July 11, 2014 RBRL324FPP-0053 RBRL324FPP First Person Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Frank McGill Louis Boyd 0 SoundCloud audio < ; iframe width=" ; 100%" ; height=" ; 166" ; scrolling=" ; no" ; frameborder=" ; no" ; allow=" ; autoplay" ; src=" ; https://w.soundcloud.com/player/?url=https%3A//api.soundcloud.com/tracks/162263384& ; color=%23ff5500& ; auto_play=false& ; hide_related=true& ; show_comments=false& ; show_user=true& ; show_reposts=false& ; show_teaser=false" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; 57 Early years Tell us about your early years... McGill talks about his childhood on a farm in Tifton, Georgia during the 1920's. McGill relates that his father and mother met at a community church meeting. McGill explains that his mother and father grew tobacco in south Georgia and gained ownership of a substantial amount of land after marriage. Athens, Alabama ; Rural Development Center ; Tifton, Georiga 421 The family farm Where did you fit among the four children? McGill describes the hard work associated with working on a family farm. McGill emphasizes the importance of mules in the farming process. McGill talks about the inner workings of his childhood family farm and all the products produced by the farm including wheat, meat, vegetables, butter and milk. farming ; mules ; production 875 The family farm (cont.) Then we had plenty of grits... McGill shares a childhood story in which a cat had managed to contaminate the family's butter supply. McGill recalls the importance of supper time on the family farm. McGill talks about how his uncle came to get involved with the University of Georgia Department of Agriculture. Andrew M. Soule ; supper ; University of Georgia 1238 The University of Georgia He paved the way for my oldest brother... McGill explains how he and his brothers came to attend the University of Georgia. McGill states that he obtained a degree in agronomy from the University of Georgia and became the assistant county agent for the University of Georgia. McGill states that he later became an agronomy extension specialist for the University of Georgia. McGill recalls how the massive emergence of technology during the 1960's Green Revolution led McGill to specialize in peanut production efficiency. Agronomy ; Andrew M. Soule ; Glenn Burton ; University of Georgia 1671 Extension work and the University of Georgia Well, one day the telephone rung in 1959... McGill recalls a job offered to him as a peanut consultant for the extension services in Alabama. McGill relates that the threat of him leaving the University of Georgia compelled his boss to offer him a full-time position as an extension service peanut specialist at the University of Georgia. extension services ; Georgia King ; peanut production 2035 Peanut production yield / Genetic engineering In 1951, the beginning of the extension... McGill lists the yield increases in peanut production for key years throughout the state of Georgia. McGill emphasizes that the work conducted by the extension of the program was a team effort on the part of many researchers. McGill explains how revolutions in genetic modification have led to an increase in peanut yields throughout Georgia and the world. gene map ; genetic engineering ; peanut ; President Jimmy Carter ; Thomas Jefferson ; University of Georgia Cooperative Extension 2433 International extension work All I want to say, is that... McGill shares how he utilized effective communication and education to bridge the gap between peanut researchers and companies that distribute peanut-related products. McGill describes his peanut-related extension work conducted in developing countries where children commonly suffer from the protein deficiency, pellegra. McGill describes the global shift towards the sharing of food-related technology between countries over the last decade. Bill Gates ; pellagra ; Ted Turner 2872 Global food innovations Bill Gates said this... McGill talks about Bill Gates's wish for global innovation in food production. McGill talks about how he met his wife, Janet McGill and shares his concluding thoughts about the future of food production. Bill Gates ; Glenn Burton ; Normal Borlaug ; World Food Prize oral history No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL324FPP/findingaid
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL324FPP-0053/ohms
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
52 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Subcollection/Series
Hidden element to divide collections up into sub-collections or series.
I. Georgia Narratives
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Frank McGill, July 11, 2014
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL324FPP-0053
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Frank McGill
Louis Boyd
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Agriculture
Economic development
Food supply
Foodways
Agriculture and Industry
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-07-11
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Georgia
Description
An account of the resource
Frank McGill talks about growing up on a family farm in Tifton, Georgia. He also talks about his career with the UGA Extension Service, becoming a specialist in peanut production. He talks about the effect of the peanut economy on small towns in Georgia and the international expansion of peanut production worldwide. <br /><br/><br/>This interview is part of the <a href="https://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=58&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=is+exactly&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=I.+Georgia+Narratives">Georgia Narratives</a> series.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-009/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.1 Interview with Hattie Heflin, July 28, 2015 RBRL361AOHP-009 RBRL361AOHP Athens Oral History Project Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Hattie Heflin Alexander Stephens oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_qyflhmn0& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_vvnimpir" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 11 Early life Could you introduce yourself, please, and say when and where you were born? Heflin chronicles her early childhood, from her birth in Oglethorpe County to living in Chicago and Comer, Georgia. She describes her family farm in Comer as being self-sufficient and somewhat isolated, and she mentions rare outings to clothing shops, Piney Grove Baptist Church, and picnics with her extended family. childhood ; Comer ; family ; Oglethorpe County 17 487 The family farm I went to school, I guess, around, of course six. Heflin speaks briefly about starting school, describes the functions and atmosphere of her family's farm, and discusses conflicts with her siblings as well as her admiration for her mother. family ; farm ; Oglethorpe Elementary School ; parents ; siblings 17 1148 Elementary school / Family history After I started school- and that was in 1960, roughly... Heflin talks about her love for learning, her disdain for the school bus, and her father's views on education--that boys should become farmers or manual laborers, but that girls should pursue schooling. Heflin also describes her ancestry, her family's life in Chicago, and her conservative upbringing in the countryside. bus ; education ; school ; upbringing ; values 17 1769 A mother's legacy I'm curious about your- you mentioned, particularly, your mother instilling a sense of pride in you and your siblings. What do you mean by that, or how did she do that? Heflin talks about her mother's pride, positivity, and confidence. Heflin says that because of her sheltered lifestyle and her mother's attitude, she was unaware that race mattered in the Jim Crow South until she was six years old. Heflin further describes how her mother's influence impacted her own self-presentation throughout her schooling and career. discrimination ; mother ; parenting ; presentation 17 2199 Integrating the Athens school system I was fourth- excuse me- I had just entered fourth- so after- finished fourth. Heflin describes attending a segregated middle school, an integrated high school, and a joint enrollment program at Athens Tech. Heflin also discusses her family life in the early 1970s. Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle School ; Clarke Central High School ; education ; Jim Crow 17 2932 Experience at Clarke Central High School Can I go back to the desegregation of Clarke Central a little bit? Heflin talks about a black power walkout from Burney-Harris-Lyons Middle School, her favorite teachers in middle and high school, and how being in an integrated environment affected her attitude toward education. education ; integration ; school 17 3450 Financial struggles / Pageant / Class reunions So, even though we no longer lived on the farm, our responsibilities did not change. Heflin recalls various jobs her mother took on after her father's death, and she describes the family's financial struggles and their life in public housing. Heflin also talks about experiencing discrimination in the Miss Clarke Central pageant and attending segregated reunions for the class of 1973. Bethel Church Homes 17 4061 College and careers Uh, so you graduated from Clarke Central in 1973? Heflin talks about volunteer efforts as well as her post-secondary education, which included an online accounting program and a business education program at Athens Tech. She also discusses past jobs with McDonald's and the Northeast Health District, pondering the impact of race on employment. Action Boys and Girls Club ; Athens Technical College ; discrimination ; health department 17 4735 Perspective on the Athens community I'm just the type person that wants to be involved, and I want to make a difference. Heflin discusses community involvement, her mother's exemplary work ethic, and changes Athens has undergone in her lifetime. business ; economics ; government ; volunteering 17 No transcript. audio 0 http://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL361AOHP-009.xml RBRL361AOHP-009.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
85 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Hattie Heflin, July 28, 2015
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-009
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
School integration
Segregation
Education
Agriculture
African American women
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Hattie Heflin
Alexander Stephens
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2015-07-28
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Description
An account of the resource
Hattie Heflin was born in Oglethorpe County, Georgia in 1954. She grew up on a family farm in Comer, Georgia as one of eleven children. Heflin’s family moved to Athens while she was in the fourth grade. She came to attend the then recently-integrated Clarke Central High School and later Athens Technical College to study business education. Heflin eventually worked at the Clarke County Health Department where she stayed for 34 years. In this interview, Heflin talks about her upbringing, work experience, education, her mother’s legacy, and the Athens community.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-023/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
4 2016-10-06 Interview with Iwalani Farfour, October 6, 2016 RBRL361AOHP-023 RBRL361AOHP Athens Oral History Project AOHP 023 Interview with Iwalani Farfour Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Iwalani Farfour Curtis Jester oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_9r3wug5z& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_aql23a9b" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 22 Early interest in farming How did you get into farming? Farfour describes how her interest in farming developed, noting how her focus changed from ornamental plants to growing food for consumption. She talks about the Collective Harvest cooperative, which consists of the three original farms (Frontfield, Diamond Hill, and Full Moon), as well as two additional members. Farfour describes how production is coordinated between the farms through a bidding process on the percentages of a crop to grow for the season. She recalls the state of her farm plot when she bought it, and improvements she has made since then. agriculture cooperative ; Athens Farmers Market ; Center for Agro-Ecology and Sustainable Food Systems ; coop ; food crops ; Full Moon Farms ; horticulture ; organic farming ; planting 17 415 History of Collective Harvest CSA How do you know Carter and Jacqui? Farfour chronicles the beginnings of the Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) program, mentioning other vendors such as Jacqueline Coburn and Alex Rilko of Front Field Farm and John Carter of Harvest Moon Garden. She talks about how she inherited the operation of the existing CSA when she bought Full Moon farms. She also describes how original member farms modeled the Collective Harvest CSA after the procedures of a North Carolina CSA. implementation ; organization structure 17 http://athensfarmersmarket.net/vendors/ Fuller bios of Collective Harvest member farms on the Athens Farmers Market vendor page 721 Farm and market logistics Could you tell a difference in the vegetables produced from just looking at your three farms? Farfour describes how different factors affect supply and demand for crops, and mentions how farms benefit from restaurant sales but face loss when consumer demand at the farmers' market wanes after the spring season. advertising ; customer base ; market competition ; marketing ; supply and demand ; word of mouth 17 1198 Partnership with restaurants So let's talk about the restaurant aspect. How would Collective Harvest as an organization go about dealing with restaurants? Farfour describes the relationship between the Collective Harvest CSA and the restaurants it supplies. She mentions that a CSA can provide a greater variety of product to restaurants as compared to an individual farm. chefs ; farm to table ; fresh food ; partnership ; restaurants 17 1349 Managing uncertainty Are there any times that a farm might face difficulties in reaching a bid they set forth? Farfour describes dealing with situations of producing too much or not enough product. She talks about donating food to the Food Bank, and notes how the the main problem is not overproduction but rather being unable to meet customer demand. food bank ; food waste ; market dynamics ; risk ; supply and demand 17 1637 Making a plan for planting / Winter CSA So I know that the bids happen each season. Farfour comments on how Collective Harvest decides what to plant each season. She mentions the formation of the winter CSA, which lasts from January-February. Farfour describes the importance of the CSA in reminding people of the connection to their food. Collective Harvest ; community engagement ; decision-making ; local food movement ; organization ; planting ; winter crops 17 No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 http://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL361AOHP-023.xml RBRL361AOHP-023.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-023/findingaid 0
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
35 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Winterville, Georgia
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Iwalani Farfour, October 6, 2016
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-023
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-06
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Community-supported agriculture
Agriculture
Food supply
Agriculture and Industry
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Iwalani Farfour
Curtis Jester
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-024/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
4 2016-10-19 Interview with Jacqueline Coburn, October 19, 2016 RBRL361AOHP-024 RBRL361AOHP Athens Oral History Project AOHP 024 Interview with Jacqueline Coburn Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia Jacqueline Coburn Curtis Jester oral history 0 Kaltura audio < ; iframe id=" ; kaltura_player" ; src=" ; https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true& ; playerId=kaltura_player& ; entry_id=1_n5ijyt76& ; flashvars[localizationCode]=en& ; flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left& ; flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical& ; flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false& ; flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true& ; flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder& ; flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true& ; & ; wid=1_qn0h1hyv" ; width=" ; 304" ; height=" ; 231" ; allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen frameborder=" ; 0" ; > ; < ; /iframe> ; English 13 Coburn's introduction to farming How did you get into farming? Coburn talks about working on a neighbor's farm, which inspired her to start her own certified naturally-grown farm in Covington, Georgia, in 2009. She discusses moving operations to Winterville, Georgia, and establishing a certified organic farm in 2012. certification ; natural ; organic 17 349 Origins of Collective Harvest So when was your time at the Athens Farmers market? Coburn talks about selling at the Athens Farmers Market and participating in a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) group with several other Athens farmers. Collective Harvest ; CSA 17 690 Growth of Collective Harvest The- so the Collective Harvest has been up for this year and the previous year. Coburn describes the increasing demand for Collective Harvest products and explains how the five farms divide production quotas among themselves. Additionally, Coburn discusses the CSA's marketing strategies, such as flyers, social media campaigns, and a partnership with Whole Foods. marketing ; public relations ; sales 17 975 Efficient farming We talked recently about waste. Coburn emphasizes the importance of donating excess food that the farms can't sell or use. She also recalls her initial concern about the feasibility of farming, in addition to describing organizational improvements and financial strategies implemented by her farm in Winterville. finances ; food waste ; loans 17 1408 Managing farm operations Are there any things that you would change if you could start farming over? Coburn talks about the the process of deciding what to plant, collaborating with employees, and working with the non-profit FoodCorps, a youth program for agricultural education. Coburn also describes Collective Harvest's existing contracts and its goals to expand. business ; Cedar Grove ; contracts ; education ; Hickory Hill 17 1775 Value of CSAs But speaking of CSAs, do you know if there are other ones in this area that Collective Harvest itself competes against? Coburn mentions several other local CSAs and commends the diversity and quality of products that CSAs provide. Athens Land Trust ; Veggie Patch ; Woodland Gardens 17 No transcript. Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule. audio 0 http://ohms.libs.uga.edu/viewer.php?cachefile=russell/RBRL361AOHP-024.xml RBRL361AOHP-024.xml http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-024/findingaid 0
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
36 minutes
Location
The location of the interview
Winterville, Georgia
Athens, Georgia
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Jacqueline Coburn, October 19, 2016
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP-024
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2016-10-19
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Subject
The topic of the resource
Community-supported agriculture
Agriculture
Sustainable agriculture
Food supply
Farm management
Agriculture and Industry
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Jacqueline Coburn
Curtis Jester
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
72 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-078-01/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-078-01/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-02-15
Interview with James Russell Smith, February 15, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-078-01
72 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
James Russell Smith
William Breeding
Undefined
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_lj4anqhp&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_0wnb3d9a" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="James Russell Smith, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Family History and Early Memories
Today is February the 15th, 2023. My name is William Breeding, and I am here with Mr. James Smith.
Breeding and Smith introduce themselves, and Smith gives a brief account of his family history. He then recalls his earliest memory, in which he was abandoned at an unfamiliar church at the age of four and carried home by a kind stranger.
Newport News, VA; Leroy Smith Sr.; Vallie Christine Barnes Smith; AME Church; Sunday school
0
401
Childhood in Athens, Georgia
Now, we didn't stay there that long
Smith discusses his modest upbringing in Athens, and describes putting buckets under leaks in the roof, and digging outdoor toilets. He also talks about how his father made a living by sharecropping and planting gardens in the community, and how he began working at the age of six.
Poverty; Athens, GA; Sharecropping; Farming; Childhood; Labor
0
676
Education at East Athens Elementary
Now, let me ask you about your school experiences. Talk to me about that.
Smith discusses his time at East Athens Elementary School. He recalls the lack of buses available and the long walk he had to take to get to school. He also talks about having to miss class to harvest cotton, and the various schools in Athens available to Black children at the time.
Education; School buses; Segregation; African American schools; Odd Street; Grove Street; Race relations
0
1056
The Student-Teacher Relationship
What did you think about the quality of education you got at those schools?
Smith reflects on his school experiences and how his teachers were like parents to their students. Additionally, he speaks on the relationship between his parents and his teachers, and his participation in operettas. He also compares his schooling with what he experienced as a substitute teacher in the early 2000s.
African American teachers; Black educators; Integration; Segregation; Family; Parent Teacher Association; Dairy Pak
0
1598
Education at Athens High and Industrial School
Well, I remember even a few years ago–I’m sixty…about to be sixty-five–I remember tagging along with my parents…
Smith talks about Athens High and Industrial School as it was in his time there. He provides a detailed accounting of his teachers and their respective subjects.
AHIS; African American teachers; High school; School segregation; Education
0
2005
After-School Activities
My church background was music.
Smith describes the work he had to do while in high school, including sweeping yards and farming with his family’s mule. He explains that he could not participate in sports because he had to work after school.
Farming; Chores; Agriculture; Sharecropping
0
2219
Entry Into Music / Musical Education
Now you were getting ready to talk about music, and… that is one thing whenever your name is mentioned, music is not far behind.
Smith discusses his relationship with music, beginning with his earliest musical training at Athens First AME church. He also describes the various musicians in Athens that he learned from, and his high standard of excellence in his own music.
Religion; Athens First AME Church; Reverend Jack Billups; Martha Swinton; Daisy Lee Shaw
0
2598
Founding The Athens Voices of Truth
Now, did you start Athens Voices of Truth?
Smith talks about the formation of his choir, The Athens Voices of Truth, which he founded with Rev. Richard Haynes in 1979.
Richard Haynes; Athens First AME Church; Gospel music; Lilburn, GA
0
2807
Leadership in Music
Now, let me ask you–and this is for my own curiosity–some of the music that they sing today…
Smith discusses the state of today’s music, and the importance of being flexible as a leader of a musical group and being open to different styles that appeal to different audiences. He also emphasizes the importance of using music to convey messages that he believes in.
Black music; Secular music; Negro spirituals; Worship; Choir
0
3374
Humility in Music and as a Leader
That leads me to my next question. I think... They say there’s no such thing as a bad question, I don’t know, I think I’m about to ask one.
Smith explains the need for humility when making or performing music. He begins by describing a particularly talented member of The Voices of Truth, and having to accept that he needed to give him some independence. He then talks about the need to recognize the limits of the group, to not perform anything beyond their capabilities, and to respect the audience’s wishes as well as the performance’s setting.
Musicians; Singing; University of Georgia; Ebenezer Baptist Church; Dr. Anthony Rucker; The Star-Spangled Banner; Teamwork
0
4032
Conclusion
Look, I’ll tell you what I want to do because I haven’t even gotten to your book.
The interview concludes with Smith giving his 10 year-old self advice. Smith also briefly describes his biography titled, "It Is Well: The Life and Times of James Russell Smith".
Biography; Books; Individuality; God; Ellen L. Walker
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
https://sol07.sewanee.edu/ohms-viewer/render.php?cachefile=/render.php?cachefile=RBRL361AOHP-078-01.xml
RBRL361AOHP-078-01.xml
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with James Russell Smith, Feburary 15,2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Agriculture
Gospel music
Musicians
African American musicians
Segregation
Religion
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
James Russell Smith
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-15
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-078-01
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Description
An account of the resource
James Russell Smith was born in 1941 and moved to Athens as a child. He currently leads The Athens Voices of Truth choir, and has done so since it was organized in 1979. In this interview he discusses his upbringing as the son of a sharecropper, his experiences in the segregated school system, and his lifelong relationship with music and the church.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
87 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-081/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-081/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2023-02-21
Interview with Melvin Stroud, February 21, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-081
87 minutes
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Melvin Stroud
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_qn8xhihw&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&flashvars[localizationCode]=en&flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&&wid=1_aewy2qcs" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Melvin Stroud, Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
0
Introduction
.. I would like to thank you, Mr. Melvin Stroud for allowing me to interview you
Stroud is introduced before he details the day of his birth. He shares that he was born at home and explains that because of segregation, most Black children were born at home by midwife.
Daisy Stroud;Segregation
165
Early life
Ok, I want you to tell me some of your earliest-
Stroud introduces his family members and details the work that his parents did. He lists the schools that he attended and states that he only ever went to segregated schools. Stroud talks about attending college for a year, before returning home to work in Athens.
Athens High and Industrial;Charlene Hunter-Gault;Emma Stroud;Fort Valley State University;George Stroud;Hamilton Holmes;Integration;North Carolina Mutual Life Insurance Company;Penolia Stroud;Reese Street;Segregation;Union Baptist Institute;University of Georgia;Zeta Phi Beta
464
Working and racism
What was that job
Stroud talks about working at Westinghouse Electric and his love for the job. He describes the company's dynamics post-desegregation, highlighting how little had changed since segregation. Stroud explains the discrepancies between white and Black employees and details some racist incidents that occurred while he worked there.
Integration;Ku Klux Klan
808
Childhood community
Tell me about your community
Stroud describes the community he grew up in. He recalls how quiet the neighborhood was and how all the neighbors knew and were willing help one another. Stroud explains that there was always plenty of food within the community because they harvested their own food. He also reflects on the people that used to live in his community and mentions that it was common to go to another family's house unannounced.
Brookly Avenue;Charter Communication;Columbia Brookside Classic Residences;Hawthorne Avenue;Oconee County;Oglethorpe Avenue;Walter Foster;William Powell
1425
Family Dynamics
Let's talk a little bit about family dynamics
Stroud talks about his family dynamics and shares the roles and responsibilities that the older and younger sibling had. He recalls the only time he was hit by his father and details the relationship between him and his older brother, Charles. Stroud also mentions picking cotton on his grandfather's farm, emphasizing how much he disliked being away from home. He also shares details about his grandparents and their lives.
E.D. Stroud School;Edwin David Stroud;Elberton, Georgia;Etta Flanagan;Farmington, Georgia;George Flanagan;Greensborough, Georgia
1895
Black businesses and home ownership
Athens was the place to be because of Black businesses, correct?
Stroud recalls some of the Black businesses that existed in Athens and points out how modern these areas have become. He attributes lack of interest in land ownership as the reason many Black people no longer own land today. Stroud also lists some of the areas of land that used to be owned by Black people. He also talks about the hospitals that were available for Black people and the segregation that existed within these facilities.
Alps Road;Alps Shopping Center;Beechwoods;Brown's Barbershop;Dr. Donnarell Green;Four Seasons;Frank Barkley;Franklin Street;Hot Corner;Liberty Dry Cleaning;Mack and Payne Funeral Home;Morton Theatre;Mutual Funeral Home;Piedmont Athens Regional;Pulaski St.;Reese Street Elementary School;Rev. Archibald Killian;St. Mary's Hospital;Susan Medical Center;Urban Renewal;Veterans of Foreign Wars;West Hancock Ave.;Wilson Barbershop
2556
Civil Rights Demonstrations
Do you remember any of the protests?
Stroud talks about the Civil Rights demonstrations in Athens and describes where they took place and the planning that went behind them. He recalls the racial climate during that time, highlighting how Black people were unjustly treated during these demonstrations. Stroud retells the death of Lemuel Penn, a Lieutenant Colonel in the Army Reserve who was murdered by Ku Klux Klan members.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.;Ebenezer Baptist Church West;Rev. William Hudson;Segregation;The Varsity
2824
Friends/ Gun violence in youth
Tell us a little bit about your friends
Stroud talks about the tricks him and his friends used to play when he was a child and recalls sneaking into the movie theatre. He explains how now its more dangerous for the youth because of the increased access to guns. Stroud recalls how difficult it was to obtain a gun when he was younger, and reinstates his position that violence among Black youth has gone up.
Floyd Johnson;Lloyd Johnson
3383
Marriage and family
So, tell me about um- married life and then about your sons.
Stroud describes his two sons and talks about where they are now. He recalls how quiet the neighborhood was and how his son caused him no trouble. Stroud talks about buying his sons motorcycles and mentions how often people mispronounce his son Innes' name.
Derrick Stroud;Elizibeth Stroud;Fatherhood;Innes Stroud;Savannah State University
3670
Childhood games and interests
Speaking of games, as a little boy what kinds of games did you play?
Stroud lists some of the indoor and outdoor games that he played and recalls playing such games with his brother, Charles. He talks about his love for sports and the discouragement he often got for his size. Stroud also discusses his interests in cars and being a handyman. He attributes these interests to the times when he observed and worked with his father and other community members as they fixed houses and cars.
Charles Stroud
4369
Segregation and the Civil Rights Movement
Just different experience I had during the desegregation time
Stroud recalls a time when he accidently went to the white-only waiting room at a bus station. He describes being ignored by the white worker and how he later got back at that worker. Stroud explains that although he attended NAACP meetings, his wife was more involved in the Civil Rights movement and was arrested for protesting. He shares his wife's experience protesting and expresses how he felt seeing his loved ones fighting for equality.
Civil Rights demonstrations;Ebenezer Baptist Church West;Greyhound;Kenneth Dious;NAACP;Racism;Rev. William Hudson;The Varsity
4673
Changing times
.. what advice would you give them?
Stroud advises people of all ages to not stoop to the levels of others. He recalls how in the past, Black people were well-dressed and it was expected for boys to maintain their hair. Stroud lists some of the other rules that girls and boys were expected to follow at that time and compares this to modern day. He also claims that Black people in the present are searching for an identity and talks about the appropriation of Black culture by white mainstream media.
cultural appropriation;generational differences
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Melvin Stroud, February 21, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Agriculture
Civil rights
Civil rights demonstrations
United States--Civil rights
Community activists
Community-supported agriculture
Discrimination
Education
School integration
Segregation
Urban renewal
Race relations
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Melvin Stroud
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-02-21
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
rbrl361aohp-081
Description
An account of the resource
Melvin Stroud was born and raised in Athens and has worked in the city for decades. Stroud attended Union Baptist Institute and Athens High and Industrial before furthering his education at Fort Valley State University. In this interview, Stroud talks about growing up in Athens and the community that existed at the time. He also discusses Black land and business ownership in Athens, Civil Rights demonstrations, and the changes within the Black community over the years.
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Athens Oral History Project
Description
An account of the resource
The Athens Oral History Project was initiated in 2014 to document modern Athens history, roughly from the mid-twentieth century to the present. Interviews cover topics such as neighborhoods and communities in Athens, civil rights demonstrations, African American history, as well as personal histories of narrators.<br /><br /><span><strong>Content Warning</strong>: Some interviews in this collection contain harmful or distressing content, to include racism, racial violence, and racial slurs.</span><br /><br /><a href="http://georgiaoralhistory.libs.uga.edu/items/browse?search=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bjoiner%5D=and&advanced%5B0%5D%5Belement_id%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Btype%5D=&advanced%5B0%5D%5Bterms%5D=&range=&collection=1&type=&tags=OHMS&featured=&subcollections=0&subcollections=1&submit_search=Search+for+items">View all OHMS indexed interviews in this collection here.</a>
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
An entity responsible for making the resource available
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2014-ongoing
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL361AOHP
Subject
The topic of the resource
Georgia--History, Local
Georgia--Communities
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
Oral histories
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
105 minutes
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-122/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
OHMS Object
Contains the OHMS link to the XML file within the OHMS viewer.
https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP-122/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
Interview with Arthur Hinton, Jr., July 21, 2023
RBRL361AOHP-122
RBRL361AOHP
Athens Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
russelluga
Arthur Hinton, Jr.
William Breeding
0
Kaltura
audio
<iframe id="kaltura_player" src="https://cdnapisec.kaltura.com/p/1727411/sp/172741100/embedIframeJs/uiconf_id/26879422/partner_id/1727411?iframeembed=true&playerId=kaltura_player&entry_id=1_lgc26pve&flashvars[streamerType]=auto&amp;flashvars[localizationCode]=en&amp;flashvars[leadWithHTML5]=true&amp;flashvars[sideBarContainer.plugin]=true&amp;flashvars[sideBarContainer.position]=left&amp;flashvars[sideBarContainer.clickToClose]=true&amp;flashvars[chapters.plugin]=true&amp;flashvars[chapters.layout]=vertical&amp;flashvars[chapters.thumbnailRotator]=false&amp;flashvars[streamSelector.plugin]=true&amp;flashvars[EmbedPlayer.SpinnerTarget]=videoHolder&amp;flashvars[dualScreen.plugin]=true&amp;flashvars[hotspots.plugin]=1&amp;flashvars[Kaltura.addCrossoriginToIframe]=true&amp;&wid=1_3tugz40b" width="640" height="360" allowfullscreen webkitallowfullscreen mozAllowFullScreen allow="autoplay *; fullscreen *; encrypted-media *" sandbox="allow-downloads allow-forms allow-same-origin allow-scripts allow-top-navigation allow-pointer-lock allow-popups allow-modals allow-orientation-lock allow-popups-to-escape-sandbox allow-presentation allow-top-navigation-by-user-activation" frameborder="0" title="Arthur Hinton, Jr., Athens Oral History Project"></iframe>
2
Family and Early Life
I would like for you to tell me your parents, grandparents, as far back as you can remember...
Hinton provides a family tree stretching back to his maternal great-grandfather George Hudson, who was born enslaved before the Civil War. He talks about his early life being surrounded by educators who started a school that became a full family effort.
George Hudson; Civil War; Slavery; Leola Hinton; Will Hudson; Pinky Hinton; Betty Hudson; James Hinton; Arthur Hinton Sr.; Grandparents; Parents; Cluster Elementary School; Aliceville, Alabama; Educators; Principal; Cluster Baptist Church; Segregation
0
590
Elementary School
Now we're in 2nd grade, take us through the highlights...
Hinton discusses his time at Aliceville and R.J. Kirksey Elementary schools, and the process of R.J. Kirksey's opening. He remembers fondly his time at both schools, and talks about meeting friends and having teachers who really cared about the students.
Aliceville, Alabama; Country Schools; Segregation; African American Schools; R.J. Kirksey Elementary School; Aliceville Elementary School; Math; Friendships; High School; Integration; Class Reunion
0
1100
Childhood Games / Integration
Well before we go to high school, let's go back to the neighborhood, some of your earliest memories...
Hinton talks about the recreational side of his early life, detailing which games he played as a child. He then returns to the discussion of school as he describes the integration process in Aliceville that took place as he entered high school.
Basketball; Bicycles; Archery; Marbles; Hide and Go Seek; Television; CBS; NBC; World Book Encyclopedia; Go Kart; Freedom of Choice; Integration; Aliceville High School; J.R. Kirksey High School
0
1706
Integration in Aliceville
Now did you run into any racism during that time or prejudice...
Hinton talks more about the integration process in Aliceville and notes that he did not experience much of the racism and mistreatment that was common during integration across the nation. He also explains how R.J. Kirksey evolved from an African American school into the city's elementary and middle school.
Racism; Prejudice; Mistreatment; Aliceville High School; Integration; Racial Slurs; Football; R. J. Kirksey High School; Middle School; Segregation; Integration; Private School; Segregation Academy
0
2104
9th Grade and On
So now you're in the 9th grade...
Continuing in high school, Hinton talks about his experiences in playing sports after integration. He also discusses some of the systems at Aliceville High School that were implemented in relation to integration.
Basketball; Football; High School Sports; Private School; Assistant Principal; Racial Relations; Principal; School Administration; University of Georgia; Athletic Equipment; Equality; Science
0
2681
Extended Family / Deciding on University of Alabama
Now how many cousins were there?
Hinton mentions some of his extended family, explaining how many aunts and uncles he has and his relationships with them. He also talks about meeting his now-wife in high school, and his decision to attend the University of Alabama.
Extended Family; Aliceville, Alabama; Aliceville, High School; Relationship; Marriage; Graduation; University of Alabama; Alabama A&M; Microbiology; ROTC
0
3250
Life at University of Alabama
You mentioned my wife staying in Aliceville...
Hinton talks about what his life was like while attending the University of Alabama, from academics and ROTC to his relationship.
Tuscaloosa, Alabama; Stillman College; University of Alabama; ROTC; Aliceville, Alabama; Academics; Microbiology; Laboratory; Chemistry; Omega Psi Phi; Fraternity; College Life; Auburn University
0
3773
Graduate School / University of Kentucky and LSU
...back to University of Alabama, you took your four years?
Hinton continues discussing his path in education, including graduating with a B.S. in Microbiology from the University of Alabama and then completing a Master's at the University of Kentucky. He then talks about his move to Baton Rouge, Louisiana to pursue a Doctorate at LSU.
ROTC; Army; University of Alabama; Microbiology; Army Officer; Graduate School; University of Kentucky; Lexington, Kentucky; Master's Degree; Doctorate; Louisiana State University; Baton Rouge, Louisiana; Food Science; Food Safety; Southern University; Teaching; Country Schools; Cholera; Food Borne Illness
0
4377
The Road to Athens
Then when you had to report for the service, to the Army, where did you go...
Hinton talks about a few more stops in his journey that led him to Athens including Fort Lee in Virginia, an Army Research Center in Massachusetts, a post-doctoral program in Texas, and an Assistant Professorship at Auburn University before coming to Athens for work at the U.S. National Poultry Research Center
PhD; Army; Food Science; Microbiology; LSU; Active Duty; Petersburg, Virginia; Fort Lee; Fort Gregg-Adams; Athens, Georgia; Natick, Massachusetts; College Station, Texas; USDA; Texas A&M; Auburn University; Assistant Professor; Poultry Science; USDA Richard Russell Research Center; 9/11
0
4714
Life in Athens / Track and Field
Now let's talk about your stay in Athens...
Hinton talks about what life looked like in Athens for him and his family. He details his experience coaching his sons in athletics and their journeys in track and field.
Athens, Georgia; Omega Psi Phi; 1990's; Willie Farmer; Russell Research Center; James Campbell; W.R. Coile Middle School; Gaines Elementary School; Winterville Elementary School; Winterville, Georgia; Auburn, Alabama; Cedar Shoals High School; High Jump; Track; AAU; Relay; Coaching; 400 Meters
0
5339
Parent Support / Russell Research Center
We're gonna go back to the Russell Research Center...
After a brief discussion of parent support in track and field at Cedar Shoals High School, Hinton talks about his role at the USDA Richard Russell Research Center. He details the differences in roles between lab scientists and research managers, and reflects on his career there as a whole.
Track and Field; Cedar Shoals High School; Relay; Jefferson, Georgia; HBCU; South Carolina; South Carolina State University; Poultry Science; US National Poultry Research Center; Research; Management
0
5719
Omega Psi Phi / Advice
Tell me about Omega...
Hinton talks about his experience with the Athens chapter of Omega Psi Phi and details the kind of work they do in the community. He then offers his advice to those who wish to achieve the success that he has, emphasizing the importance of maintaining a close relationship with family and finding a trustworthy mentor.
Willie Farmer; Maurice Daniels; Community; Athens, Georgia; Matthew McRae; Fraternity; Gainesville, Georgia; Scholarship; Talent Hunt; Grandchildren; Family; Parents; Mentor
0
oral history
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
0
/render.php?cachefile=RBRL361AOHP-122.xml
RBRL361AOHP-122.xml
http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL361AOHP/findingaid
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Arthur Hinton, Jr., July 21, 2023
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Athens Black History
School integration
Education
Agriculture
United States. Army--Soldiers
African American veterans
United States--Veterans
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Arthur Hinton, Jr.
William Breeding
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2023-7-21
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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audio
oral histories
Type
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sound
Identifier
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rbrl361aohp-122
Description
An account of the resource
Arthur Hinton, Jr. was born in 1957 and grew up in Aliceville, Alabama. He went through the school system there, starting at a small country school run by his family and graduating from Aliceville High School following integration. He continued his education to the highest level, receiving degrees from the University of Alabama, University of Kentucky, and completing a PhD at LSU. His studies in microbiology and food science led him to a career at the USDA Richard Russell Research Center. In this interview, Hinton details this journey along with integration, his time with the Army, meeting his wife, and growing a family among.
OHMS
-
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
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Mount Pleasant Baptist Church Oral History Project
Creator
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Publisher
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Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
Date
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2020-ongoing
Rights
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http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
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Oral histories
Identifier
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RBRL484MPBC
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Subject
The topic of the resource
African Americans--History
Description
An account of the resource
The Mount Pleasant Baptist Church Oral History Project is a community collaboration initiated in 2020 by the Mt. Pleasant History Committee and the Russell Library, as part of the Athens, Georgia African American Oral History Initiative, to collect and preserve the modern history of Mount Pleasant Baptist Church and its members, and to document the history of the Brooklyn and surrounding neighborhoods now located near Hawthorne Ave. Mount Pleasant Baptist Church is a historically Black Baptist church in Athens, Georgia founded in 1870.
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Location
The location of the interview
Athens, Georgia
Duration
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126 minutes
URL
<h3><span style="text-decoration:underline;"><a href="http://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL484MPBC-001-01/audio" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Access Interview </a></span></h3>
Repository
Name of repository the interview is from
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies
OHMS Object
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https://purl.libs.uga.edu/russell/RBRL484MPBC-001-01/ohms
OHMS Object Text
Contains OHMS index and/or transcript and is what makes the contents of the OHMS object searchable.
5.4
2020-08-20
Interview with Verna Miller Smith, August 20, 2020
RBRL484MPBC-001-01
126 minutes
RBRL484MPBC
Mount Pleasant Baptist Church Oral History Project
Richard B. Russell Library for Political Research and Studies, University of Georgia
Verna Miller Smith
Christian Lopez
audio
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113
Grandparents in Slavery
Today, which I think will be the first...
Verna Miller Smith, born 1946, talks about her grandparents, who were born into slavery. She refers to court records she found documenting their value as slaves and her lack of knowledge or documentation about them otherwise.
Anthony Elder;Athens, GA;Clarke County, GA;Laura Elder;Oconee County, GA;slavery
447
Parents' Careers
Um, so, let's talk about your parents.
Smith details her parents careers, her father being a sharecropper and World War I Army veteran and her mother a teacher at a one room school. She discusses going to school as a child.
Athens, GA;Ernest Elder;Maddy Louise Jones;Oconee County, GA;Watkinsville, GA;WWI
710
Childhood on the Farm
So you lived in Oconee County...
Smith recalls moving to Athens when she was in the second grade. She shares memories of living on the farm, such as the time she and her sister accidentally set the curtains on fire.
Athens, GA;Oconee County, GA
979
Community on Brooklyn Rd
So you moved to Athens...
Smith recalls moving to her mother's family home in Athens. She describes the Brooklyn neighborhood of Athens and her experience of the community as a family.
Athens, GA;Baxter St, Athens, GA;Hawthorne Ave, Athens, GA;Mount Pleasant Baptist Church;Union Baptist
1403
Remembering Brooklyn Rd
Where Hawthorne Avenue now...
Smith describes the structure of the Brooklyn neighborhood, including the location of houses and streams.
Athens, GA;Brooklyn Rd, Athens, GA;Hawthorne Ave, Athens, GA;Mount Pleasant Baptist Church
1963
Shopping and limited interactions with white people
But because the farmer's market was there, and there was a road in the back...
Smith describes attending a farmer's market near her house. She talks about how her only interactions with white people growing up were with two store owners, mentioning how she would go buy tobacco for her father. She also talks about a white man named Mr. Anderson who helped the Black community.
Brooklyn, Rd;local produce;segregation;Thomas Lay
2583
Experience shopping downtown
We went to that feed store downtown.
Smith describes buying shoes downtown with her father. She talks about how her family struggled financially, but discusses how they never went hungry because they grew food and owned livestock. She also talks about segregated businesses and bus stations.
commercial activity;family farm;poverty;segregation;transportation
2917
Hot Corner and family farm
Do you have memories of Hot Corner and that business district downtown?
Smith describes walking through Hot Corner, a Black business district in Athens. She discusses local movie theaters, talking about how she she went to Harlem Theater instead of the segregated Georgia Theater. She also talks about how her family grew most of the food they ate and raised livestock on the land they owned in the Brooklyn neighborhood.
Black-owned businesses;family farm;funeral homes;Morton Theater;segregation;Sol Abrams
3482
High school and move to New jersey
Was there property on the other side of Brooklyn?
Smith describes attending Athens High and Industrial School, the first four-year high school for African Americans in Georgia. She talks about moving to New Jersey after she graduated in 1963 and moving back to Athens in 2017.
education;family;mariage;segregation
3766
Neighbor forced off land to build public housing
So two years later, you come back?
Smith describes visiting Athens with her new husband. She talks about how her neighbor, Helen Johnson, was forced off her land so the city could build public housing. She discusses the public housing development formerly called the Jack R. Wells public housing neighborhood and known as Pauldoe.
family;land dispossession;Lemuel Penn;racial violence
Father's life
I want to ask a couple more questions about your dad?
Smith describes her father who was a sharecropper in Oconee County before he inherited land in the Brooklyn neighborhood. She discusses how her family lost increasing amounts of their land to eminent domain when roads were built and expanded. She explains how her father stopping raising livestock in the late 1960s after the city told him he could no longer grow corn to feed the animals.
farming;fishing;Hawthorne Avenue;hunting;inheritance;land dispossession;local government;regulations;Watkinsville, Georgia
5007
Mother's life and job opportunities for Black women
I want to talk about your mom, too.
Smith describes how her mother was a teacher, mentioning how she met her father while teaching night school. She discusses the limited careers open to Black women which primarily included domestic labor and the poultry industry. Smith explains how these limitations motivated her to move to New Jersey. She talks about how her mother got certifications at the University of Georgia and graduated from Fort Valley State University.
education;employment;poverty;Rosenwald School;salary
Harassment by UGA students and family rules
I can remember one night, before I graduated high school...
Smith describes an incident in which she was threatened by UGA students, and she talks about being harassed by drunk students after football games. She discusses how she wasn't allowed to go places on her own and had to be home by sundown due to her parents' fears of violence.
Athens High and Industrial School;dances;racial violence;racism;segregation;YMCA
Changes in Athens
So what do you see in the change there
Smith talks about how white people have moved into historically Black neighborhoods in Athens. She describes increased development and gentrification, and she mentions how her family lost land to eminent domain. She also mentions family photographs and papers.
East High Road;family records;Hawthorne Avenue;photography;urban renewal
6546
Father's military pension and Mount Pleasant Baptist Church
I wanted to ask you about your father's pension from his service in World War I.
Smith describes how her father's military pension was illegally cut off which she did not discover until right before his death. She talks about Mount Pleasant Baptist Church, discussing how her father used to roast hogs to raise money for the church. She also describes how her family did not have running water or indoor plumbing until after she left home.
Barbecue;Black chiefs;Black veterans;census;cooking;fundraising;outhouses;Veteran's Affairs
7234
Inequity in Athens
Is there anything else, right now today, that you would like to add?
Smith describes the high rates of illiteracy in Athens, stating that the University of Georgia needs to do more to help the local community. She also talks about witnessing but not participating in protests for integration in Athens.
desegregation;illiteracy;inequality;resources
Oral history
No transcript.
Resources may be used under the guidelines described by the U.S. Copyright Office in Section 107, Title 17, United States Code (Fair use). Parties interested in production or commercial use of the resources should contact the Russell Library for a fee schedule.
audio
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Interview with Verna Miller Smith, August 20, 2020
Subject
The topic of the resource
African American women
Athens Black History
Agriculture
Gentrification
Creator
An entity primarily responsible for making the resource
Verna Miller Smith
Christian Lopez
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2020-08-20
Rights
Information about rights held in and over the resource
http://rightsstatements.org/vocab/InC/1.0/
Format
The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource
audio
oral histories
Type
The nature or genre of the resource
sound
Identifier
An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context
RBRL484MPBC-001-01
Coverage
The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant
Athens, Georgia
Description
An account of the resource
<span style="font-weight:400;">Verna Miller Smith was born in 1946. She grew up on a family farm off Brooklyn road in Athens, Georgia. In this interview, she discusses her family history and describes the Brooklyn neighborhood which was historically African American. She discusses changes in Athens and highlights continued inequity.</span><br /><br />This interview was recorded remotely.
OHMS